BA Cityflyer

[HS-125]

I guess Titan will step in for the moment, until a more permanent "fix" can be sourced?

[virginblue]

Problem is that there is a very limited choice when it come the leasing in LCY-capable jet equipment. The only other European carriers in the wet-leasing business with 146s I can think of are WDL and Transwede. Not sure if WDL has brought its fleet to LCY standards, and Transwede certainly is busy with the SAS contract. And I am sure that other Flightline customers will be after them as well, e.g. Ford for their corporate shuttle between SEN and CGN.

[DutchBird-757]

Question here about VB's comment. Has Flightline gone belly up? Might explain why I'm now changed to do the Dublin tomorrow. Hmmm...

SAS are rumored to be looking to end their deal with Transwede.

[mmeteesside]

Looks like Titan were helping out today.

[virginblue]

SAS are rumored to be looking to end their deal with Transwede.

Which would leave them with no suitable aircraft for OSL/ARN-/CPH-LCY - unless they find someone else with three BAe 146/RJ85 available for lease (or they are planning to end LCY flights).

[HKLCY]

I read SAS LCY-CPH will now be operated by ATR42. However I can't remember where i read it.

[virginblue]

That would be a big surprise. LCY-CPH is 950km. LCY-MUC is shorter and despite using much faster Q400s and Dornier 328s, it was felt that it was too long for a (fast) turboprop and an Avro RJ85 was put in use. CPH is about the same distance from LCY as Milan.

[cornishsimon]

how about BA buying the aircraft and taking on the current flightline crews ?

[silverstreak]

As of 1430hrs today, G-FLTB was 'staying put' in EDI. Had been towed from the SE Pier am and parked over by the cargo ramp. BAA were insisting it stayed till further notice...

2 cancellations AM out of EDI due to 'Operational Reasons'... aka Administration procedures taking place to wind up Flight Line...

[BAladdy]

Will BACF start pulling more flights because of FLT going in admininstration??.

I know Titan have operated some of the flights on BACF's behalf yesterday.

Anyone any word on what BACF are gonna do now. Are they gonna look at leasing in 146's and if this happend would the flight crew need retraining or can RJ85/100 flight crew also fly the Bae 146's?

[virginblue]

Nice example to demonstrate how dependent LCY operations are on a very small number of LCY-capable aircraft and a few airlines with an ACMI-style of operation when it comes to third-party operations.

To the best of my knowledge, there is not a single RJ85 available on the market and only two or three ex THY RJ100 (which, IIRC, are not in the best shape). And while Star Alliance or Skyteam have a number of airlines under their umbrella with sizeable fleets of Avro RJs / BAe 146 that can be shifted if urgently needed, oneworld has nothing comparable at its disposal. Will be interesting to see how BACF will cope.

[Deep and fast]

Better get some E170's pretty quick then.

D and F :8

[DutchBird-757]

It's got a impact on our ops. Cxd flights, Titan called in, and a re-shuffle of the program. For DEC only, a few rotations are cancelled.

Other rotations cancelled on selected days only. Emphasis is to only cancel flights that have low pre-booking numbers and to minimise the impact during the christmas period on our customers.

Sad to hear our Flightline colleagues lose their job just before christmas.

[Mister Geezer]

silverstreak

As of 1430hrs today, G-FLTB was 'staying put' in EDI. Had been towed from the SE Pier am and parked over by the cargo ramp. BAA were insisting it stayed till further notice...

2 cancellations AM out of EDI due to 'Operational Reasons'... aka Administration procedures taking place to wind up Flight Line...

Errr... don't know where you got that info from since G-FLTB was flown out of EDI on the evening of the 3rd (Wednesday)! I flew it! :}

[cornishsimon]

Mister Geezer



Hope your well on the way to finding further employment
CS

[Deep and fast]

What effect will the Flightline news have on the Ba cityflyer holdpool?

D and F :8

[towser]

I would think it will have little or no effect on the hold pool as we don't have the aircraft to fill the gap therefore we don't need the pilots yet!

[HZ123]

I think the operation will be cut back. There are far to many other issues to resolve before to many 'watersiders' start to worry about LCY.

[Mister Geezer]

cornishsimon

Thanks for that... I think I may have something to move onto fairly quickly but I sadly suspect that a number of my former colleagues will not be so lucky! :(

[Deep and fast]

HZ123

Isn't good management about keeping all the balls in the air?

D and F:8

[silverstreak]

Mister Geezer

... On the evening of the 3rd - you quite probably DID fly FLTB out of EDI, but I can assure you that as of 1430hrs (afternoon of the 3rd) the BAA were not letting it go. Must have been serious negotiations behind the scenes....

[Mister Geezer]

In fact the negotiations were not as major as one would think. Finding the correct people to speak to was the main problem but once they were tracked down, then the ball started to roll fairly quickly! :ok:

[Tandemrotor]

DutchBird-757:
Announcement should come by end of first week of December acc to company. If not, they'll let us know.

Tomorrow perhaps?

Maybe happyslapper has the 'inside track'??

[DutchBird-757]

Well, things have changed a little bit since they said it was gonna be end of this week. (demise of Flightline)

They are currently working on the schedueles for JAN 09 to minimise the disruption to our passengers. Our roster publication has been delayed by at least two days in order to get all the planning sorted.

Personally, I don't see them make any announcement this year.
(The E170-190 would be a very nice x-mass present... :ugh:)

[Tandemrotor]

Not sure how the demise of Flightline would delay new aircraft procurement?

If anything I would have thought it would bring any purchase forward wouldn't it?:confused:

[DutchBird-757]

Well, I can understand it if they need to concentrate first on getting the JAN 09 flying/crew program sorted and then look at the rest again.

[Tandemrotor]

Could the unexpected availability of Flightline's 146s be giving BA cause to delay any decision?

[Flatspin_Fumble]

It is sad about Flightline, but I would very surprised if this has any bearing upon a major commercial investment by British Airways for their wholly owned subsiduary at EDI and LCY. If the announcement, was rumored, to be announced, last week, or the week before, or indeed this week, the fact that Flightline has gone belly up, I would suggest has little to do with it and if Cityflyer are about to operate EMB 170's or 190's this decision would have been taken some time ago. I would have thought the last thing BACF would need right now, is to acquire more 146's or RJ's call them what you will they are much the same to travel in - they need modern, fuel effeicent aircraft, with passenger appeal...... perhaps,as Dutchbird says, it would be a nice Christmas present for all if BA were to announce their decision next week, to reinvest in the rumored 170's etc, and as I said in some previous posts, I really hope it happens for all those guys at Cityflyer. We live in interesting times - may the best for all occur.

[BAladdy]

Just wondering is a RJ100/RJ85 also able to fly a Bae146-300 aicraft without having to be retrained.

If they wouldn't require retraining I am suprised that as a temporary measure they are not leasing in 146 aircraft. At present flybe have 8x 300 series, 5 x 200 series and 2 x 100 series doing nothing at the moment in Exeter. 3 of which are ex BACON aircraft. (G-OINV, G-MANS, G-GNTZ) all of which I believe still have the BA style seating.

[HZ123]

One 100 and 2 200 types with less seating. Maybe they may well wait and see what the New Year brings. If loads carry on downwards there will be no need for more a/c.

Thats not right it is more likely to be 2 x 300 and 1 x 200?

[Cyrano]

Just wondering is a RJ100/RJ85 also able to fly a Bae146-300 aicraft without having to be retrained.

No, there isn't a common rating - retraining is needed.

[cmf146]

BAladdy

You are a bit out of date on the stored 146 situation at Exeter.
2 x 100's were scrapped years ago and the ex BA one is in the Philippines.
Of the three srs 200's still present, G-GNTZ is engineless and there are only 6 x 300's still stored, of which only one is ex BA ( G-OINV ).

[Grand yahoo]

...............and G-MANS 145-200

[HZ123]

There was a BAe Leasing RJ 100/146-300 engine running at SEN today, might that be going to U at LCY?

[Tandemrotor]

I read in The Times today, that both Airbus and Boeing are expecting 2009 to be a "very, very bad year" for aircraft manufacturers! As airlines have absolutely NO appetite for new aircraft orders.

Whilst I applaud the optimism of those at BACF, I can't help wondering if their management are fully in touch with reality?

Let's face it. They do have a track record of incompetence and failure!! :rolleyes:

Things ARE beginning to look much worse for 2009!

[Biff Baff Boff]

Tandem

Are you trying to say that their track record of incompetence and failure is going to get worse in 2009 ????

[Flatspin_Fumble]

I think what Tandem is saying is if they could not get it right in the good times when airlines were prospering, there is little optimism for 2009 given their track record. I hope he is proved wrong, but fear he may well be correct.

[Tandemrotor]

I actually think BACF will do ok. It's a niche operation, which I have no doubt has made good money in the 'good times'. Certainly good enough to have given the workers a better payrise!

I was merely reflecting on the 'credentials' of those at the top.

How I meant to end, was by saying:

Things ARE beginning to look much worse for the economy in 2009!

Which I can only assume would make it very difficult to justify significant capital expenditure. Even given what I said in the first line.

BACF will do fine, whatever they fly next year. Though investment will be required at some stage.

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Well I would not know too much about those at the top regarding major investment at BACF, at the end of the day, its all about what BA wish to do with their wholly owned subsidury, for it is they who hold the purse strings, as I have said before, it would be a bold investment, given the current economy of the UK and the world for that matter ( Gordon Brown has saved the world ha ! so all will be fine ), should BA decide to do so would be fantastic news for all at BACF.

[Biff Baff Boff]

That's what I thought you meant - it would be difficult for the 'credentials' of those at the top to get any worse :)

[BAladdy]

Just noticed BACF have brought out a revised timetable from 05JAN09 guessing due to them being two aircraft down. The changes are as follows

Warsaw

Route withdrawn from 05Jan

Edinburgh

Frequency to drop to 7 x per weekday. Southbound flights now depart EDI

Mon-Thu at 06:30, 07:20, 08:10, 09:05, 16:00, 18:25 & 19:10
Friday at 06:30, 07:20, 09:05, 11:35, 16:00, 18:25 & 19:10
Saturday at 08:00 (No Change)
Sunday at 11:50, 14:50, 16:35 & 19:10

Northbound flights now depart LCY

Mon-Thu at 07:00, 08:55, 10:15, 16:20, 17:00, 18:05 & 20:45
Friday at 07:00, 08:55, 13:45, 16:20, 17:00, 18:05 & 20:45
Saturday at 09:15, 09:55 & 11:40 (No Change)
Sunday at 17:00,18:00 & 19:20

Barcelona

Flights to BCN will operate Thu, Fri & Sun only

Nice

BA8747/8 are withdrawn. BA8745/6 will operate between 3-5 x weekly departing at various times

Amsterdam

Flights to AMS remain 4 x daily with 08:10 departure changed to 08:40. Sunday timetable also changed with flight ex AMS landing at LCY 12:45 and LCY/AMS leaving at the later time of 19:25.

Zurich

Changes from 5 to 4 x daily. BA8761/2 withdrawn Mon-Fri. From ZRH the other 4 services will depart at there current departure times. From LCY on a Mon-Fri BA8763 will change from a 09:25 departure to 08:05 and BA8765 will change from a 11:55 departure to a 12:05. BA8767/9 and weekend flights remain unchanged.

Glasgow
No Changes

Frankfurt

No Changes

Madrid

No Changes

Lyon

No Changes

Geneva

No Changes

Dublin

No Changes.

I think that the info above is fairly accurate. However I am sure there may be a few days where flights are canx etc due to loads.

Suprised to see WAW pulled all together. However I know loads aint been good. Would have thought AMS would have been for some kind of cut as loads aint all that great. BCN & NCE no real suprise as these routes are more popular in the summer. Noticed the loads on the GVA and LYS aren't great. I think if BACF had announced the route earlier LYS inparticular would be busier. As most people book there xmas travel from late August.

Does anyone know when BACF will announce their Summer 09 timetable?? and will we see any new routes ex LCY next summer. They could make a bit of money operating to places such as AGP/FAO in the summer if they advertised well.

[BAladdy]

BACF and EI are to enter into a codeshare agreement on BACF's LCY/DUB route. The agreement starts from 24 DEC 08

Hopefully with EI codesharing this will see an increase in pax originating from Ireland. I also wonder how if at all this will affect the loads on WX/AF services to DUB.

[RVF750]

To add a touch on the FLybe EXT stock of 146's. Don't forget some of the Flyer lads have the 146 on their licence and time a plenty on G-OINV, G-MANS and G-GNTZ too.

However, G-OINV and G-MANS don't have steep approach fitted, and G-GNTZ doesn't have any engines right now, so no help there then.

So much for a quick fix.

The "Difference course" is only a couple of days anyway, and easily done if needed. Just remember the spoilers don't come out until you pull the stick of shame and you need to fly the nose down yourself first! The rest is pretty straight forward!

[Copenhagen]

LCY - is the perfect place for standby travel. I have flown as SLF on the LCY DUB a few times of late, and the loads are really weak. Really surprised that this route has survived the schedule cuts, unless BA see it as a loss leader in a fight to get AF out of London.

[DutchBird-757]

The cuts in the scheduel are until 29 March. Lately the WAW is doing really well with the odd offload due to weight restrictions out of LCY. But your down one aircraft for about 7 hours a day when operating the WAW.

AMS and DUB are doing well seeing they've only been running for 6-9 months. And BAladdy, you're dead right about the need for advertising/promotion.

[SWBKCB]

From Flight:

BA orders 11 Embraer regional jets for CityFlyer

By Nicholas Ionides

British Airways (BA) has ordered 11 Embraer regional jets for use by its BA CityFlyer subsidiary. Embraer says in a statement that the deal comprises six E-170s and five E-190SRs on firm order, plus options for three more E-190SRs.

The first 76-seat E-170 is due for delivery in the second half of 2009. Deliveries of the larger, 98-seat E-190SRs will start later, says Embraer.

BA had been evaluating replacements for some time for its Avro RJ100s and RJ85s that are operated by its CityFlyer unit. The new Embraer aircraft will be operated out of London City Airport.

[happyslapper]

There you go DutchBird et al; - a little patience was all that was required.

[RJ100]

HZ123..

Care to place your normal negative comments/spin?

Thankfully waterside do see the "Big Picture"!

RJ.:D

[Mister Geezer]

You will all miss the RJ!!! ;)

[midweeksaint]

E-190SR? What's that? Have heard of LR and AR variants but not SR? No details on the Embraer web site either. And any idea when E-190 will complete it's LCY qualification?

[Longhitter]

Slightly Reinforced? :}

[ara01jbb]

Sharpish Rotation?

[wasaspacecadet]

Computer-generated image of E-jet in BA livery on the Embraer site. Embraer - Empresa Brasileira de Aeronáutica S.A. (http://www.embraer.com/english/content/imprensa/press_releases_detalhe.asp?id=2227)

Rob

[goerring]

Speedbrake Repaired !

[RVF750]

Hmmm.

Flybe's outstanding options perhaps?

[Serenity]

Ready to bring in house with Flybe more like!!! :}

[DutchBird-757]

Just to add a little. 190SR stands for 190 "Short Runway". You won't find it yet on the Embraer site as it's specifically developed for BACF.

The order also includes purchase rights for another 15 E-jets. All our E-jets will come with ACARS and CATIII3A autoland. (No HUD)

And you're gonna love seatpitch on the 190SR. Because it's limited to 98 seats you've got a 36" pitch throughout with even 40" on row 1! (no wardrobe) First E-jets are going to arrive in SEP09 (2x) and will be online in OCT09. Delivery roughly 1 every month.

A very smart choice and a great commitment to BACF and LCY!
Indeed a great christmas! :ok:

[Cyrano]

Because it's limited to 98 seats you've got a 36" pitch throughout with even 40" on row 1!

Are you sure about that? According to the Embraer website (choose "98 seats") (http://www.embraercommercialjets.com/english/content/ejets/emb_190.asp?tela=layouts) it's 32-33". Still a good seat pitch, don't get me wrong, but not exactly 36"!

(And the E170 with 76 seats is a 30-31" pitch according to the Embraer site - that seems like quite a big difference in cabin comfort between BA's variants?)

[DutchBird-757]

Well, can only say what I've heard. I've had a look at the Embraer site and it looks to be 32/33" indeed. But still nice to have the 2-2 layout. :ok:

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Thats excellent news for all at BACF. I think the seat pitch is somewhat irrelevant in the big scheme of things, must say, it looks good in the BA livery, almost as good as the Flybe 195's.:)

Merry Christmas.
FF

[midweeksaint]

Thanks for the detail Dutchbird. Why would a specific variant need to be developed for BACF?

[virginblue]

Just to add a little. 190SR stands for 190 "Short Runway". You won't find it yet on the Embraer site as it's specifically developed for BACF.

The order also includes purchase rights for another 15 E-jets. All our E-jets will come with ACARS and CATIII3A autoland. (No HUD)

And you're gonna love seatpitch on the 190SR. Because it's limited to 98 seats you've got a 36" pitch throughout with even 40" on row 1! (no wardrobe) First E-jets are going to arrive in SEP09 (2x) and will be online in OCT09. Delivery roughly 1 every month.


Any word what the perimeter is for a useful load? Embraer's official data for the standard E190 is:

Take Off Field Length, ISA, SL, MTOW 6,745ft 2,056m
Take Off Field Length, ISA, SL, TOW for 500nm 4,157ft 1,267m

Does the "SR" do anything about it or is it just the steep approach modification? From the paper, 500nm would be the max. range with a full load. Places like Nice or Milan would be a stretch, and Madrid, Barcelona, Warszawa, Vienna out of reach.

[100above]

Great news for CityFlyer - I guess the only guys who will be disappointed were the few who hoped the company would disappear once the RJ leases ended and that they would be transferred to mainline. The scope agreement driving the 98 seat layout of the E190s suggests that BA intend to continue to keep CityFlyer quite separate from mainline. I'm intrgued though by the suggestion that they have purchase options on another 15 E jets. Surely LCY capacity constraints would limit their expansion out of the city itself. Whatever they do with them its good to see some investment in the industry right now and gives some certainty for CityFlyer crews long term.

[chrism20]

Any word what the perimeter is for a useful load? Embraer's official data for the standard E190 is:

Take Off Field Length, ISA, SL, MTOW 6,745ft 2,056m
Take Off Field Length, ISA, SL, TOW for 500nm 4,157ft 1,267m

Does the "SR" do anything about it or is it just the steep approach modification? From the paper, 500nm would be the max. range with a full load. Places like Nice or Milan would be a stretch, and Madrid, Barcelona, Warszawa, Vienna out of reach.


Is this possibly the reason for a number of E170's as well?

If I remember correctly this is why a few RJ85's appeared as the 100 couldn't make it somewhere (MAD I think) full.

[midweeksaint]

100above
As a dedicated follower of things BAe 146 I guess there may be some guys in Prestwick & Hatfield who are also disappointed? I am curious to understand the scope agreement you mention. Are you able to enlighten a bit?

[DutchBird-757]

Sexy isn't she;

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee141/swisstrip2007/bae190srJPG.jpg
:ok:
Merry Christmas to everyone and all the best for 2009!

[32SQDN]

Gents, anyone know where type ratings for these a/c will take place?

Cheers 32.

[VVIP-FA]

Merry Christmas to all at BACF and a big congrats on your new type..:D

I will be joining the cabin crew team in EDI on the next training course after many years of private and long haul flying from LHR and looking forward to working with such a great bunch of people, with an already sterling reputation.

Does anyone have any info on possible new routes to be launched in the new year as well as the cabin crew compliment for the RJ85 /100 E170/90

Thanks again

VVIP-FA

[BAladdy]

The Cabin crew compliment on both aircraft will only be 2. BACF have said that there will be no redundancys due to this announcement.

How many crew do BACF currently carry on their RJ's??

This change in fleet type is a great christmas from BA to BACF. Th E-Jets will be far more comfortable than the crampt RJ's. The new aircraft will give BACF the edge over WX and LX when it comes to space and comfort out of LCY.

Does anyone know is the range and MTOW of the E-jets greater then the current RJ fleet?

[OliWW]

The RJ100's can do about 1,500nm... with a speed of about 450knots max...

The E170 can get around 1,7500nm

The E190 can get around 2,200nm for the SR

[marlowe]

HZ123 you have suddenly gone very quite? I guess when you were cleaning BA offices you were looking at the wrong paperwork !

[virginblue]

The E190 can get around 2,200nm for the SR


I would be very surprised if the "SR" modification will give the thing a boost 1.700nm, given the data provided by Embraer...

Take Off Field Length, ISA, SL, TOW for 500nm 4,157ft 1,267m


...so the question: Is your data general information or are these figures LCY-specific, taking into account the available runway length and the ibstacle clearance?

[cheesycol]

No way will the 190 get 2,200 miles out of LCY. Maybe with no traffic load, even then not sure.

[Tandemrotor]

Very good news for all those at BACF. A very exciting time for all, and a bullish move from BA.

The operation, and the workers undoubtedly deserve it.

You won't be shocked if I say I am surprised the company has chosen now to make this large capital investment. However deserved it is. Still, at least when they come to us (and BACF?) looking for cost cuts in the New Year, we all now know where we stand. Apparently this company is not short of cash! :rolleyes:

Compliments of the season to all. :)

[DutchBird-757]

Don't know anything about the performance. Would be really interesting to find out especially what the E-190 could do.

Expecting two aircraft to arrive in SEP 09. Training will start halfway through 09 through OAA and sim in Gatwick. (NOT CONFIRMED!) First ones to finish the Embraer type in a couple of weeks already! (trainers, managers etc)

@ VVIP-FA, welcome to the club! There are rumors of new routes but I don't expect anything to materialise on short or medium term. Let's get the transition between fleets done properly and also focus on our current operation and customers. 2 Cabin crew per E-Jet and they don't expect any redundancies.

@ BAladdy. Currently we have 2 cabin crew on the RJ85 and 3 on the RJ100. We can operate the RJ100 with 2 cabin crew under special circumstances and with special approval.

[happyslapper]

"Apparently this company is not short of cash!"

Do you think, that these new aircraft will be purchased with a big fat cheque from BA???
Aircraft are leased, and the cost to lease these will be slightly more than the cost to lease the RJ's but with less maintenance costs.

What this does show is a longer term commitment to BACF not a big bundle of cash to splash !!!

[flyer55]

Its good news for BA Cityflyer and commitment to LCY !

Lets hope it doesnt affect LGW in any way mainly routes wise !

[BAladdy]

happyslapper. The aircraft have been bought by BA for BACF. They will not be leased.

[Tandemrotor]

I am genuinely pleased for the boys and girls at the coal face. As I have already said. Exciting times.

happyslapper

In response to your post, all I would say is;
What this does show is a longer term commitment to BACF

Perhaps what you mean is; a longer term commitment to BACF's current Terms and Conditions.

If that makes you happy(slapper), I can only assume you are management.

(Or a 'big' BALPA rep?)

[Mister Geezer]

Perhaps what you mean is; a longer term commitment to BACF's current Terms and Conditions.

In all honesty, current Terms and Conditions are irrelevant in the unpredictable situation that the industry is in. What this order with Embraer does mean, is that jobs at BACF will be as secure as they can be in the current climate. When taking that into account, then I suspect that BACF crews will be able to sleep relatively soundly at night. That has to be regarded as a significant bonus, when many crew from other airlines have lost their job or are scared of loosing it soon. This has to be the underlying issue in these volatile times. What is not important at present is a Mainline vs BACF argument/discussion. From the responses from BACF crews, it seems that they have not commented on the long term consequences that this order may have. Totally understandable too, since I am sure their main concern is keeping their job during this recession. Those that can avoid redundancy will emerge to be the real winners in this recession.

[DutchBird-757]

Amen to that 'J'! :ok:

[tallaonehotel]

Funny how things work out, the E170 was destined for BRAL before BA got involved.

Good news for all of the guys at CityFlyer, good luck with the future.

Hopefully BA will let you get on with things now without the noose of the RJ's.

[VVIP-FA]

Thank you for the info guys, hope to see some of you on line in the new year.

Seasons greetings to all...:ok:


VVIP-FA

[13Alpha]

BA orders 11 Embraer regional jets for CityFlyer

By Nicholas Ionides

British Airways (BA) has ordered 11 Embraer regional jets for use by its BA CityFlyer subsidiary. Embraer says in a statement that the deal comprises six E-170s and five E-190SRs on firm order, plus options for three more E-190SRs.


As a frequent pax at LCY this is great news. Looking forward to fewer BA CityFlyer delays and cancellations - and a bit of extra knee and elbow space. Even for a short skinny bloke like me a busy RJ wasn't a comfortable place to be.

Also looking forward to a bit less noise from RJ100 flaps deploying over my SE London home... :)

13Alpha

[Otto Throttle]

Interesting and exciting choice. Lovely, modern a/c to fly. Well thought out and confortable interior, and very popular with crews and pax alike. Seat pitch may possibly be up to 36" - the rows behind the overwing exit have a slightly greater pitch than the rows in front.

TRs most likely to take place at OAA in Crawley.

[Flatspin_Fumble]

DB757, I assume through your posts, you must be management, or a very senior person within Cityflyer as you appear to have great clarity as to what is going on and I thank you for your informed knowledge, as I said previously, I am delighted with the news for all at Cityflyer, has anyone explained to you, why, in this downturn, it will take so long before the first two are delivered in Sept 2009 - I realise the trainers and the like have to be trained, but why so long, its almost 9 months, I suppose its a bit like conception, when I think about it. Yeh, its a nice pic, not sure if I would call it sexy though! It looks better than an HS 146 or RJ, I will grant you that. Have fun with it.

100above - well presented post, it is intriguing as you said, 2009 will be interesting.

Merry Christmas all.

[marlowe]

Flatspin, DB757 management! best laugh all day bet he is laughing as well !!!!!! In the grand scheme of things 9 months is not really that long to get all the elements in place needed to run a new fleet.

[DutchBird-757]

Far from it 'F F'. :) Just love my job and like to discuss this exiting news about 'my' company.

Don't think it takes that long before the first aircraft are joining our fleet. Remember it has a tremendous impact on many departments. First trainers/managers to finish the typerating will then start writing the manuals etc. Not something done overnight. I personally think that 9 months from signing the deal to a getting the new aircraft type, plus phasing out the AVRO's is challenging. You are basically running three operations at once. (maintainng your current operation, phasing out the AVRO's and introduction of E-Jets)

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Marlowe and DB757,

I guess you must be correct, perhaps I am out of touch, I used to have a PPL, but that lapsed a very long time ago, but I still have a keen interest in airlines and aeroplanes, hence me following these posts.

FF

[Iver]

Great news for the Avro pilots out there! Welcome to the 21st Century:

JetPhotos.Net Photo » G-FBEM (CN: 19000204) Flybe Embraer 190-200LR by Neil Lomax (http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6440313&nseq=16)

Although I would still be happy flying one of these too:

Photos: BAE Systems Avro 146-RJ100 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways-(CityFlyer)/BAE-Systems-Avro/1415933/L/&tbl=photo_info&photo_nr=9&sok=WHERE__(datestamp_%3E_date_sub(NOW(),_INTERVAL_182_DAY)) __halfyear&sort=_order_by_views_desc_&prev_id=1371531&next_id=1374672)

Great news for the new year! Those E190s should be fun to watch operating out of LCY. On that subject, any news on potential hiring at Cityflyer?

[DutchBird-757]

Iver, funny you should bring that up.
First picture is actually my desktop background since they announced it and the second one is all to familiar as well. :ok:

It will indeed be a major leap in technology. Dark and silent cockpit rather than having lots of chimes and lights.

[happyslapper]

BAladdy - I think I will wait to see what the plaques on the aircraft say, and I doubt very much, that it will be "owned by BA" and leased to bacf.

Tandemroter - I am neither management nor balpa, however I agree with many other posters, who are just happy to have a job with (now) a degree of security, for both myself and my colleagues.

This will be my last post on this topic as, now that the announcement has been made, it has run its natural cause.

Merry Christmas

[cheesycol]

A great aircraft - but note of caution, the 190 is only a metre shorter than an A320. Not too sure I'd relish putting it into LCY!

[Iver]

How many E190s could they park on the LCY ramp at the same time? I guess that's why they also ordered some smaller E170s - can't fit everything at once...

BTW, are BA still planning to fly the A319s out of LCY to the States? Has that been delayed due to the sour economy or is that still a go?

[marlowe]

its 318s they will be using.

[DutchBird-757]

Wasn't it SEP 09 that the first of two A318 starts at LCY? Roughly the same time as our 170's start showing up.

Was thinking about parking at LCY myself. Seeing that the 190 is 1.5 meters shorter than an A320. It's wingspan is a fair bit shorter. Are they (LCY) gonna go ahead with nose-in parking? (heard a rumour)

[WHBM]

The four new gates at the east end of te LCY ramp are properly sized for A318/E190 aircraft manoeuvres, without needing nose-in parking. These will presumaby be the gates of first choice for these two types.

I hope there is not an attempt to use the new types at the main gates 2-8, where not only is the manoeuvring probably not possible without a tractor, but the restricted passenger holding arrangements, which for a full 146 already mean passengers queueing for extended periods on narrow and steep stairs down to them, would undoubtedly fail any Health & Safety assessment for new construction.

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Nose in parking, well that's something to look forward to in 2009, life does not get much more exciting than that, apart from the extra seat pitch, of course.

[Mister Geezer]

Nose in parking

Another step towards LCY being a proper airport then! :}

[Deep and fast]

Any flightdeck based at city yet? If so how is the roster in terms of nightstops, time to get in when called off standby etc?

Regards
D and F

[A Nonny Mouse]

How dare you imply that London City would become a proper Airport!!!!

Please retract this immediately, as this will never, ever be the case.

An oversized aircraft carrier with the best ATCOs in East London perhaps, but proper airport:=

[DutchBird-757]

@ D and F. Some flightdeck is now based in LCY as off 1st of Dec this year. Don't know about rostering, based in EDI myself, and DEC isn't really a representative month. Reporting time of 90 minutes during SBY. (i.o 60 in EDI)

@ Mr. Mouse. Gotta love LCY. Best airport in Lodon! :D

[marlowe]

Eight days since the announcement of new aircraft for BACF and still no reply from HZ123 happy days!!!!

[BAladdy]

Dutchbird757 here are a couple of questions for you as you seem to be the most up to speed on the new E-Jet topic.

Noticed on the Embraer website that there is quite a backlog on E190's to be delivered. Will this mean all the 170's will be delivered before they take delivery of the 190SR's?.

Does anyone know with the new E-Jets will there be less chance of pax offloads due to weight restriction during the key summer months to MAD, BCN and WAW??.

On the schedule side when does BACF finalize their summer timetable?. It is just I have heard rumours that WAW will not return until next winter is this true as I was planning to fly there from LCY this summer...........

[towser]

BAladdy. We haven't been given any idea as to the delivery schedule as far as 170v190 is concerned. The 190 isn't likely to be certified for LCY till the end of 2009 so I guess the first 4 or 5 aircraft will be 170's so it may work out the way you describe. I think there should be a very much reduced chance of offloads in the summer on the longer sectors but I haven't seen the performance figures to back this up. As for the WAW ,again only solid info is that its gone for the winter. ( At the minute it seems we're still trying to sort out next weeks schedule never mind the summer!!)

[AirLCY]

Its likely 170's are before 190's, the first few delivered are def 170's. WAW still planned in for summer, should be finalised mid Jan when unused slots have to be handed back by airlines.

[EI-BUD]

Hi all and best wishes for 2009!

I recall a short lived airline which operated 146s at LCY, must be mid 90s, I think it was called World Airlines/Airways. The aircraft was white with a navy tail with a sunflower on the tail.

It was operating the Amsterdam at a reasonable frequency and if my memory serves me right I think that it was around the time of debonair.

I am wondering does anybody have photo's of same? It would be great to receive, if anyone is in the mood to PM me??

Thanks

EI-BUD

[WHBM]

World Airlines :

Yes, I rememer them. An astoundingly all-embracing name for an operation on one route (LCY-AMS) which required one aircraft daily.

They had a fleet of two 146 jets, G-WLCY (2030) which turned up in March 1996, and G-OWLD (2031), which came in July 1996, both ex-US Airways which had been stored in Arizona for some years. Operations didn't start until the second aircraft turned up, after several false starts and missed deadlines, and they were out of business in a few months, sometime in Autumn 1996.

They had ads on LBC radio in London, and several London black taxis done up in the same livery as allover advertisments.

When they went under one of the aircraft was seized on the LCY ramp and sat there for weeks, where gate 9 now is, with a van parked in front of it. The LCY ramp was quieter then !

Photos: British Aerospace BAe-146-200 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/World-Airlines/British-Aerospace-BAe-146-200/1272278/M/)

There are several other photos of them on Airliners.net.

2030 and 2031 are now with Cityjet (EI-PAT and EI-CNQ) and can still be seen at LCY from time to time.

[ETOPS]

marlowe

Eight days since the announcement of new aircraft for BACF and still no reply from HZ123 happy days!!!!

I doubt we will for a while as Pprune is now a "prohibited website" and blocked on all BA company computers. As HZ123 seems to post from Waterside he might have to use his home PC.............

[RB311]

Hi WHBM,

Just to bring you up to date, there are no more 146s in the Cityjet fleet.. Not since April 2008.

All RJ now!

rb311

[Emb190]

Glad I picked out my new name in time for later next year.

DB757.... First flight deck to be based in LCY were based there from Sept 1st.

Emb.

[DutchBird-757]

Indeed Emb190! :D
Didn´t knew it was Sep even. I´ll try and stay away from a LCY base. :)

@ Baladdy. See towser reply. Haven´t got anything to add unfortunately. Would really like to see some performance data for both aircraft. I think I´ve heard somewhere that both types can take a full load on any existing route. But DON´T quote me on that. :ok:

[kilwhang]

To: DutchBird et al..............

I'm an EMB 170/190 instructor at the training facility here in Singapore. If you have any specific performance questions please PM me.

In general, it's an interesting aircraft with very good short-field performance. The biggest challenge for me was to go from 'steam driven' (747 Classic) to ultra-modern electronics......at the ripe old age of 60 :O

[Flatspin_Fumble]

With the acquistion of Cityflyer's EMB 170's are Cityflyer going to base their first operational aircraft at LCY or EDI which, after all, is supposed to be their main base? From what I hear, its seems LCY is going to the initial base for the Embraer. I hope this is not the case.

[WHBM]

How can anything be based at London City ? It doesn't have a hangar, it doesn't even have any ramp area where maintenance can be performed. If there is an AOG it has to be shoved right up in the weeds in the far corner of the Jet Centre until a visiting engineering team can sort it out.

It will be interesting to see how the New York A318s are handled as well. Will they have work done in New York ?

[Skipness One Echo]

So being based means that maintenance is done on site? BA don't have Airbuses based at GLA but that's where they go for maintenance. I recall that the A318s will be maintained at LHR, with hops in and out as required.

I know CityFlyer have engineering staff at LCY and I believe others do as well. It's not as bad as you paint it.

There are lots of airports without hangars for airliners......

[Flatspin_Fumble]

As far as I am aware, BACF don't have a hangar facility as such at EDI - I guess like LCY, they have a few grunts checking the tyres and completing daily inspections etc.

[DutchBird-757]

There is a BACF hanger at EDI.

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Is that the Ferranti Hangar beside the GAT where all the smart Exec Jets park up ? If so, it must be rented as required, don't think it belongs to BA or any of its wholly owned companies, but I guess I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

[TURIN]

I guess like LCY, they have a few grunts checking the tyres and completing daily inspections etc.

Grunts????:hmm:

Nice to know respect for your fellow professionals is alive and well.:rolleyes:

You have to have the aircraft based for maintenance purposes somewhere so you know when you can write all the defects up that you have "carried" on the day's multiple sectors. :}


BTW There has been an internal vacancy out for months at LCY for B1 and B2 "grunts" but there are no takers. Wonder why? :=

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Turin,

I did not wish to appear disrespectful to our engineering colleagues, it so happens it is an affectionate name for them, for reasons you can figure out for yourself. I have the greatest admiration for them, working outside at this time of the year, when it is cold, wet and blowing a gale trying to fix something.

FF :)

[Grand yahoo]

There is a considerable reduction in planned and unplanned maintenance man-hours on a modern Regional Jet such as a ERJ 170/190 compared to the BAE RJ aircraft.

Yes of course with new aircraft there are settling in teething troubles but overall the design gives an advantage.

Less time is spent finding out which system component has failed. This means that far less hangar time is required.

More time can be spent fixing the interior after customer wear and tear.

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

Flatspin

You should spend a bit more time out in the weather instead of lying on the floor with your feet in the warming oven!:ooh:

[Leading_Edge_190]

Does anyone know BACF plans on recruitment for the E170 / E190 are the planning on retraining their RJ guys or will they be looking to recruit new crews?

I only ask as i have a 170 /190 rating on a UK JAA license and wanted to know what my options are.

ps does anyone know when the 1st a/c is due to be in service?

thanks

:ok::ok:

[Flatspin_Fumble]

BarbiesBoyfriend,

Why would I wish to spoil the habit of a lifetime? Me outside, in the weather, come, come my dear chap, anyway, must go, the staff are required to pull up the drawbridge for the night. Do mind the moat, if you are wandering about. I expect you are looking forward to the barbiejets big brother, it looks nice in the BA livery, almost as nice as our even bigger EMB in Flybe livery!:)

Warm wishes ....

FF

[towser]

Leading Edge; First aircraft due to arrive in September with others following in quick succession. First course around mid June I believe. As far as recruitment is concerned all RJ crews will be trained on the EMB and as far as I'm aware the last intake has just started or just about to start their RJ ground school. But might be worth dropping a CV in ,you never know if you don't ask!

P.S. Flatspin - How is the Dash?

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Towser,

I hope not be on it much longer. Does that answer your question!

FF.

[32SQDN]

Where are you hoping to move to, FF?

[BAladdy]

Looks like BACF have started to publsh their Summer 09 Timetable.

All is subject to change but as it currently stands:


AMS - Remains 4 x daily M-F, No big timetable changes.

BCN - Remains 6 x weekly M-F

DUB- Remains 3 x daily, with slight timetable change. (Shown Below)
ex LCY BA8463 will change from a 10:50 departure to a 13:05 departure

ex DUB BA8464 will change from a 14:50 departure to a 15:00 departure
EDI - Back to 10 x daily M-F, With some slight time changes (Shown Below)

ex LCY BA8702 will change from a 08:55 departure to a 08:40 departure.
BA8716 will change from a 13:45 departure to a 13:00 departure.
BA8706 will change from a 16:20 departure to a 16:00 departure.
BA8718 will change from a 20:10 departure to a 20:10 departure.

ex EDI BA8709 will change from a 18:25 departure to a 18:05 departure.


FRA - Remains 4 x daily M-F, With one major return journey time change

ex LCY BA8738 moves from a 11:35 departure to a 15:50 departure

ex FRA BA8737 moves from a 15:05 departure to a 19:20 departure meaning a new later evening service ex FRA.


GLA - Remains 5 x daily M-F, With Some slight time changes (Shown Below)

ex LCY BA8726 will change from a 13:40 departure to a 14:00 departure

ex GLA BA8725 will change from a 11:40 departure to a 12:10 departure

GVA - Winter only route non op Summer 09

LYS - Winter only route non op Summer 09

MAD - Remains 2 x daily M-f

NCE - Returns to 2 x daily M-f for Summer 09

WAW - Sadly not returning for Summer 09

ZRH - Remains 4 x Daily, With minor timetable change (Shown Below)

ex LCY BA8765 moves from a 12:05 departure to a 12:55 departure
BA8769 moves from a 18:00 departure to a 18:15 departure

ex ZRH BA8764 moves from a 13:10 departure to a 11:30 departure
BA8766 moves from a 16:35 departure to a 16:55 departure

There are some flights where departure has only changed by 5 mins so not listed.

Any rumours of new Summer 09 routes??

[BAladdy]

BA announced a few months ago that the CE cabin configuration will change in 10 days time (23FEB09) from the unpopular 2:3 seating to a standard 2:2 seating. This also applies to BACF's RJ's. Giving pax in Club more room.

Personally I think this move will be welcomed by BACF's CE customers.

[HZ123]

How many seats per aircraft do we lose and is this a new set of seats? We tried this 3 years with CE on a couple of A319 and lost passengers as a result. As with a number of mainline projects it was quickly forgotten and erased from the records.

[BAladdy]

On a RJ I would have thought you would loose anything from 2 to 10 seats per aircraft. However this will probably boost load factor on the LCY routes as the flights to ZRH, FRA, MAD, AMS, BCN and NCE are rarely booked 100%.

The plan is as on many european carriers the middle seat will be blocked out. So on a A319 rather that the present 45 seat max they could operate it the aircraft with 100 plus club seats if need be. The move will allow BA to better match demand with capacity.

[marlowe]

BALaddy the RJs are always ran in a 2 by 2 combination in club config , once you move the seats you lose the middle seat on the right hand side of the aircraft , and on the left hand side it is always been standard practice not to book a pax into the middle seat. BACityflyer club pax have always had a 2 by 2 config .

[parky747]

I thought an LCY-MAN route was to be announced?

[Novair DC10]

Also Dublin missing??

[DutchBird-757]

Indeed, where's our DUB? And I thought we´d keep either GVA or LYS?

Looks like they haven't changed the BCN times as almost all the time the aircraft comes back into LCY 20 to 30 min late and then does the AMS late. The BCN-LCY flighttime is currently allowed for as blocktime. So your always late on your way back.

Sorry to read we´re not doing the WAW anymore. I always liked them. Hope it comes back though...

[AirLCY]

Just checked and DUB is sellnig as per current times on ba.com

[BAladdy]

Sorry missed out Dub:ugh::ugh:. Have updated the post and added the changes.

Marlowe - That is strange because I flew to BCN on the RJ100 2 or so weeks ago and it was configured 2:3 in club and 3:3 down the back. Looked at reservations computer and sure enough it shows 2:3 until 23 FEB. The current configs in Club on LCY routes are in multiples of 5 with 10 being the smallest cabin and 60 being the largest.

Must agree Dutchbird that the loss of WAW is a disapointment. Hopefully we will see it return for Winter 09/10. Not suprised about LYS or GVA . Think GVA will return next winter but not sure about LYS.

Also does anyone have any info about the BACF aircraft with nose wheel problems currently at LCY. LCY website shows runway as closed.

[racer09]

Turn on Sky News....

[Maverick8701]

"67 pax evacuated safely from ba flight after undercarraige failed on landing at LCY"
Sky News
Take it this would be one of the RJ's any further details anyone?

M

[Maverick8701]

Further from BBC

A British Airways jet from Amsterdam has been involved in an incident at London City Airport.
Eyewitnesses say the front wheels by the aircraft's nose collapsed when the plane made a hard landing.
The aircraft skidded to a halt on the runway and its 67 passengers and five crew were evacuated using the plane's emergency chutes.
It has also been reported that ambulances were called to the scene but there have been no reports of injuries.

Is the the BBC exagerating things again? Discuss

[racer09]

RJ100 I believe, don't know reg, and the BBC report sounds accurate from what I've heard and your quote - don't let me get on my soapbox about Sky's inaccurate reporting!!

[HKLCY]

Some pictures from the incident i took about 15mins after it occured:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/ldnairport/DSCF0101.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/ldnairport/DSCF0099.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/ldnairport/DSCF0098.jpg


Sean

[HKLCY]

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/ldnairport/DSCF0101.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/ldnairport/DSCF0096.jpg

[marlowe]

BA Laddy the club section on the RJ will look like its a 3 by 2 config but the middle seat on the left side is always left empty hence its a 2 by 2 config.

[BAladdy]

Just noticed LCY/DUB will be suspended for most of March. The last flight will leave DUB as BA8466 on the 1st March.

According to the timetable it is due to return on the 29 MAR. However flights are not bookable for all of the Summer 09 Timetable

[racer09]

Think this was mentioned in the London City thread, as far as I know it's a "long term" cancellation and not returning at the end of March.

[DutchBird-757]

Indeed. No more DUB's from March 2nd onwards.

[BAladdy]

It's a shame really but not a suprise BACF only just managed to run there reduced timetable after FLT went under now with a RJ out of action something had to be cut back. I also see that LYS is going down to one a week for the remainder of the Winter schedule with the last Saturday flight operating this weekend.

Is there any word on the RJ involved in the incident at LCY??. Will it return to fly for BACF before the E170/190's are delivered

[DutchBird-757]

At the moment still to be decided on what to do with AR. Write-off/repairs is a 50-50 still due to ignificate structural damage.

[EI-BUD]

Read it in the Irish Times this morning that from Wednesday next BA will axe its Dublin/London City route. It is so sad really. Gatwick is being axed and now the new route. Here was me looking forward to the arrival of the BA e jets.

All that said, the passenger numbers on the route did not really increase even though the capacity had almost doubled. Does anyone know what were the loads like?

This bring back memories; February & March 1991 BA axed its Cork/Shannon/Dublin- London Heathrow routes that's almost 18 years ago! And here we go again. Cork and Shannon had daily rotations and they were withdrawn ahead of the season end. And Dublin was x6 a day with the first departure in the morning (in the last season) at 0615 and at that time that hour of the morning was simply unheard of for a London flight!
A combination of Boeing 73S and BAC1-11s were, I have gone off the point but I remember this so well and I was only a young lad at that time!!

[parky747]

How come BACF H/Q is still based at Manchester when they dont have any operations to/from MAN anymore?

[marlowe]

Parky747 even the employees cant explain Didsbury!!! But general understanding is that office space was available in Didsbury and there are some decent golf clubs nearby!!!

[dollydaydream]

And people were already working there as BA Connect - many moved across to CF.

[ROSCO328]

How does Cityflyer actually make any money? Sorry if this sounds like a dig but this has baffled me for a long time?:confused:

[towser]

ROSCOE maybe the question should be how does any airline make money right now!

[HZ123]

The reason for Didsbury is that someone long since left BA signed a rather long lease on the building. Here at BA we to wonder why it is located when there is so much space at LHR being payed for but unused. Cannot answer as to whether the operation makes any money or not. BA has a poor record for making money on similar exercises?

[marlowe]

Rosco its almost impossible to tell if BAcityflyer makes money, because at the end of the day BA can make the money figures reflect what they want them to, as they have done in previous icarnations of this company. BA have a reason for Cityflyer, what that reason is only time will tell.

[parky747]

Maybe in time they may restart MAN flights or take over flybe?

[bmaviscount]

Do you think a good plan would be to offer a twice week day LCY -JER-GCI-LCY triangle?

[100above]

I think Marlowe has hit the nail on the head - its not so much what Cityflyer is now, but instead what plans BA might have for them in the future. At a time of economic downturn and cutbacks in the banking sector, which provides a reasonable amount of Cityflyer's LCY traffic, it seems strange that BA should invest in a fleet of new aircraft. If they are profitable at the moment, I'd be very surprised. My guess is that they see Cityflyer as a means of eventually moving some mainline shorthaul work to a lower cost base. The time may not yet be right, there would be massive opposition and it wouldn't be easy. However, with the limited expansion opportunities at LCY, the only other reason I can think of for the forthcoming investment is that BA are keeping them up their sleeve for some future plan.

[speedrestriction]

take over flybe?

No thanks, we can do without that sort of help.

[BAladdy]

Does anyone know the reason behind the extra services to NCE this Monday, Tuesday and Friday. The flights are.

On Monday they are operating 3 flights

BA8475 LCY 10:50 NCE 13:55
BA8477 LCY 14:00 NCE 17:05
BA8473 LCY 17:00 NCE 20:05

On Tuesday they are also operating 3 flights.

BA8473 LCY 06:50 NCE 09:55
BA8475 LCY 09:25 NCE 12:30
BA8477 LCY 10:15 NCE 13:20

On Friday also 3 flights operating

BA8477 LCY 07:00 NCE 10:05
BA8475 LCY 09:15 NCE 12:20
BA8477 LCY 11:10 NCE 14:05

[Cyrano]

Does anyone know the reason behind the extra services to NCE this Monday, Tuesday and Friday?

Probably extra demand for travel to the big MIPIM (http://www.mipim.com/App/homepage.cfm?moduleid=399&appname=100517) property exhibition in Cannes, running from Tuesday to Friday.

[parky747]

Any prospect of an MAN - LCY service ?

[BAladdy]

I wouldn't think BACF will add any new routes for the forseeable future. Maybe MAN/LCY could be added when the new E-Jet fleet starts arriving.

[marlowe]

100above, Cityflyer have been in a unique position the last 2 years, in that they have almost been a holding company for BAs plans for LCY and really havent had to concentrate on making a profit because what BA wanted was to establish a better presence at LCY. Now what of the future? Well it would have been easy for BA to have let the LCY operation go to Flybe 2 years ago with BACON but they didnt, also with the currant economic climate it would also have been easy to have shut Cityflyer once the RJs reverted back to mainline under the scope agreement in 2010 but they havent, what you have is an investment of new equipment. Now BA did not just aquire a new fleet of aircraft without having a plan for this investment, and you cant tell me that the economic downturn was not foreseen by a company as large as BA, and yet they still went ahead with a new fleet for BAcityflyer so there must be a master plan somewhere what it is well who knows? I think that the Cityflyer you see today with its route structure is not the Cityflyer you may see in the future once the E jets are online.

[Skipness One Echo]

Any prospect of an MAN - LCY service ?

Why would you want this? I am pro aviation but for the love of God USE THE TRAIN for this one so we get to fight the bigger battles. I can accept MAN-LHR to allow access to BA worldwide services through T5 but if you're simply off to London you don't need to take a bloody aeroplane in this day and age.

[uklad007]

Skipness

Totally respect you for your opinion, but if its less hassle and sometimes cost for someone to fly then thats their choice to make - personally i think there will always be a market for London (all airports) services to Manchester - i flew two weeks ago to Manchester as i worked till 3pm on the Friday and needed to be in Manchester by 18:30 and thats what i was able to do thanks to flying and will be flying the route again next weekend - albeit from Heathrow, as the thought of driving or going by train for the 24 hour visit am making vs the plane is a no brainer - the plane wins on cost, reduced hassle, comfort etc .

[BAladdy]

I see BACF are really playing with their timetable. Really suprised to see MAD canx over the school easter holidays (No flights ex LCY 13th-19th April).
British Airways' Speedbird Club: Guideline - BA CityFlyer cancellations Apr 09 (http://www.ba-sbc.com/hk/all-news/commercial-policies/partoper/cityflyercanxlcyapr09/)
Could understand a frequency cut to say FRA or ZRH during this time but I would have thought MAD would be one of the busiest over thid time.

When you look at July's timetable there seems to be alot of periods with aircraft not doing anything. BCN is already looking busy in the summer. Why are they not looking at adding more flights at peak times say Thursday to Monday.

Anyone know whats happening guessing we aint seeing any new routes!!.

[Michael SWS]

i flew two weeks ago to Manchester as i worked till 3pm on the Friday and needed to be in Manchester by 18:30 and thats what i was able to do thanks to flying and will be flying the route again next weekend - albeit from Heathrow, as the thought of driving or going by train for the 24 hour visit am making vs the plane is a no brainer...Unless you work near Heathrow and needed to get to a location near Manchester Airport then I would suggest, with all due respect, that it is barely possible to finish work at 1500 and be in Manchester by 1830 by plane.

On the other hand, there are trains from Euston every 20 minutes, taking 2hrs 7mins from city centre to city centre. It seems to me that for this particular journey it is the train that is the "no-brainer".

[uklad007]

Not really no - i work in Reading and needed to be in central manchester.

Reading to Heathrow by car took 30 mins even on a Friday on the M4 towards London, flight was around 5pm (had a nice couple of drinks in the bar in T5 - all chilled and relaxed), landed just before 6pm and i was where i wanted to be in the centre of man by around 6:30pm.

Maybe i acheieved the impossible but your right if i worked near heathrow and wanted to stay in a hotel near the airport it would have been even easier than that :O

[BAladdy]

Just noticed that BA8741 en route to LYS has diverted back to STN. Flight departed LCY at 12:56 and arrived STN at 14:07 anyone know what the problem was.

BA8742 LYS/LCY no cancelled.

[JB10]

Guys,

So whats happend to the RJ at LCY. Has it been repaired or written off?

Anyone know?

10

[DutchBird-757]

I think they are now building a shelter across the dock just like they did with the Swiss RJ.

[RJ100]

The Shelter you see is to do with the G20 next week at the Excel Centre.

A stand off has developed between BAe and the insurance company. BAe want to fix as it's work up to £10 Million in Leasing revenue. Insurance want to scrap as it's expensive to fix. They want to buy it for £5M and sell for spares. Not too many RJ spares.... Watch this space......

RJ.

[nebpor]

Just been kicked off our Titans operated BA flight here at lcy - the 18:05 to glasgow - anyone know what the problem was with the plane? Staff all being good - lot of cranky idiots complaining...

[AirLCY]

Titan went tech for 2nd time this week!! Hope BACF arent paying them too much for the excellent service they've provided this week!

[mmeteesside]

Of course you could argue if Cityflyer had enough serviceable aircraft they wouldn't need Titan to cover in the first place :}

[cornishsimon]

well the brand spanking new ones arent too far away so the light is at the end of the tunnel !!

[nebpor]

Well I managed to get a seat on the next plane thank God - quite a few weren't so lucky and it was too late to get them to Heathrow/Gatwick if there were any seats there!

I normally don't mind flying Titan - it's like the difference between a taxi and a limo - pilot seems far less concerned about a smooth flying experience than a typical BA pilot and it's rather fun up the back :}

Before any angry Titan pilots maul me I do not for one minute think they are any less safe and I don't consider that a criticism, they just have an obviously non-big firm style about them - it feels a bit cowboy and fondly reminds me of flying for small operators when I was young :E

[A Nonny Mouse]

Give me a Titan pilot over a BA anytime,

in fact, it is a pity that Flightline folded, because they were our favourite pilots at City!

[DutchBird-757]

Well, here we go... :=

[marlowe]

Well some of those Flightline pilots now work for Cityflyer so have you changed your opinion mouse?

[BAladdy]

Firstly sorry if these points have been discussed before. However I have a few questions about the Embraer deliveries and expected performance that hopefully someone can answer.

I have noticed on a few websites that the first 170 is due around September. Does anyone know if BACF will take delivery of all the 170's before the first 190SR is delivered?? and how long after receiving the first aircraft will BACF take delivery of their last E-jet?

As each E-jet enters service will BACF remove a RJ from the fleet immediately or have it hang around for a week or two as a standby aircraft incase of any problems with the E-jets.??

Finally will the E170 and 190SR's be able to reach destinations such as MAD without a weight restriction problems they faced with the RJ100's when it operated to MAD??

In advance thanks for any info..

[HZ123]

Within BA there seems to very little infomation at this time but the wheels are grinding as TLC (turnaround load control) and Aircraft suoervisors (loading) courses are looked at. I cannot say with confidence but it would be best that an RJ is kept on standby for the first few months as the EMB's bed in and no doubt problems occur that we had not anticipated. Much is being left however, as the plot unfolds as it is not out of the question that as a result of summer load factors there could be a reduction in flights anyway. RThat said the aircraft operates with large numbers of airlines anyway and may well be virtually trouble free. Flight crews I believe have / are already on conversion courses in the USA.

[WHBM]

It would be difficult to know where to put any standby aircraft, given that LCY don't allow any to be there - at peak times it's in and out in 30 minutes only. There's no parking space for one anyway.

AOG aircraft are just one of those things, however. They have traditionally been pushed into the weeds at the end of the Jet Centre until fixed. Any reason why the RJ stuck here currently has been allowed to occupy a more mainstream position ?

[towser]

HZ123 no crews other than Training Manager and GMFO have been on a course yet and they did it in the UK. First course for trainers is early June and 1st course for line pilots August I believe. As for performance and delivery schedules I have no idea!

[egnxema]

Have heard that BA are reducing frequency on LCY AMS and LCY EDI - anyone know any details?

[Skipness One Echo]

A few routes have been chopped since the credit crunch and there is a little more slack than this time last year with the opening of Stands 21-24 on the East Apron. Hence no need to float another RJ100 across the dock. Has a repair or write of decison been made yet on G-BXAR?

[WHBM]

If it is written off I wouldn't have thought that LCY would be too keen on a contract scrap merchant coming in to the apron, so presumably it would be the barge to somewhere. Would the wings have to come off to get it out through the lock into the Thames ?

[towser]

Discussions still ongoing about AR.

[Red Four]

When it comes to replacement for tech aircraft, is FLI the new FLT?

[DutchBird-757]

@ egnxema.
Looking at the BA website, AMS is down to three frequencies a day. BA8752/3 have been axed. Don't know why and for how long.

AMS is a really good performer. So would this have something to do with creating a spare aircraft at times?

[BAladdy]

On BA website it shows they have only withdrawn the BA8452/3 on the 5th, 6th, 12th, 13th, 19th, 20th, 25th (Bank Holiday), 26th and 27th May and back to normal in June

Basically BA8452/3 operates days 1,4 and 5 with the exception of the bank holiday on the 25th.

[DutchBird-757]

Just the two random dates (12/19) I picked to confirm the story. Well, now wondering if it's only this month or the rest of the season?

[cmf146]

I see that Atlantic Airways now have a RJ85 based at Southend on stand-by for Cityflyer. Has the Titan contract now finished ?

[martin102]

25 jobs to go

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Edinburgh, East and Fife | BA jobs go after plane write-off (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8067315.stm)

[uklad007]

Interesting article - sounds like this was the "only" option on the table and "regrettably" BA has been left with no choice in the matter......

I am a big BA supporter but please - there really isnt another RJ/BAE parked up somewhere in the world not being used

I know there is slightly more to it than my over simplification of the issue :) but it reads as though there was only one option!

[WHBM]

There are plenty of RJs around - one of the more plentiful types available at present. For example, there are the last of the formr Northwest fleet still available.

But with the new fleet of Embraers on the way by the end of the year it is an opportunity to avoid the costs associated with bringing another aircraft in, bringing the cabin up to BA standards, etc. BA have a contract with Titan for a standby aircraft as required, if they don't want to take that up in the medium term they are using this as an excuse for cost-cutting. A competent airline financial planning team (one thing that BA do possess) will have a provision for costs for exceptional events. Unfortunately it seems that budget has been raided to support the corporate bottom line. Whether this would have happened if the LCY operation had been part of Mainline instead of Cityflyer is a topic for discussion.

If only the competition on LCY-Edinburgh were still Scot Airways with their excellent cabin service they would have lost more. Unfortunately that has gone, in favour of the Air France (alias Cityjet) corporate approach which is not nearly as good.

[Munnyspinner]

AirFrance is now operating the Scot Airways Edinburgh Service.

The city flyer decision to reduce the LCY - EDI service due to loss of an aircraft is a lame excuse. There are plenty of wetlease A/C available to repalce the damaged A/C ( now allegedly written off - as repairs cannot be completed within period of Lease) but I suspect BA want to reduce capacity before bringing in EMB190 in the autumn.

Whilst I accept it is a genuine excuse I do feel it is a little bit convenient and pehaps if BA were being honest they could have just given economic reasons for reducing service and making staff redundant. BA and honest are not two words that always sit well together.

[AirLCY]

Air France carry more passengers than Scot Airways did, so surely this means they are more competition not less?

The cost of wet lease is huge, as would the refurb of the old Northwest RJ85's full of sand in the desert!

EDILON market is down loads, and this effects LCY pretty badly with the finance industry in so much trouble.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

EDILON market is down loads

...I'll excuse the pun :ok:, but you're quite correct:

Jan 2007 29373pax
Jan 2008 22051pax

- 25% :ooh:

Feb 2007 28972pax
Feb 2008 20772pax

-28% :uhoh:

[goldeneye]

I was at Exeter Airport on Friday and there are a number of Avro RJ/BAe 146 sitting there in storage along with a number of Embraer RJs.

[DutchBird-757]

First RJ100 to 'retire' will be 'AW' within a fortnight!

[Skipness One Echo]

Having already lost ' AR and Flightline, why is this? Replacements are a bit away yet (!) End of lease and expensive to re-sign?

[jethro15]

First RJ100 to 'retire' will be 'AW' within a fortnight!

'AW' WFU 29 May, to Exeter 30 May

[cmf146]

As you rightly state Cityflyer are already three aircraft down on the operational fleet of last December, and AW has also now left. It ferried to Exeter last Saturday for hand-back, and AX is due to follow next month with all this quite a few months ahead of the replacement Emb's coming on-line.

[DutchBird-757]

We'll propably end up with one sole remaining RJ just before the first E-jet arrives... :eek:

[HZ123]

Is business that bad or is it good but with no yield?

[AirLCY]

Cityflyer cant reduce any further aircraft until the new aircraft come, so doubt ZAX will be next month.

[BAladdy]

Can't see them sending any more aircraft back before the delivery of the 1st E170 in September

Also just noticed on jethros they have added the new aircraft regs and expected delivery dates. They will continue with the G-LCY- regs they started with the two RJ85's.

E170's

G-LCYD expected 01SEP09 (I/S 28SEP09)
G-LCYE expected 08SEP09 (I/S 28SEP09)
G-LCYF expected 26OCT09
G-LCYG expected NOV09
G-LCYH expected DEC09
G-LCYI expected JAN10


E190SR's

G-LCYJ expected MAR10
G-LCYK expected APR10
G-LCYL expected APR10
G-LCYM expected MAY10
G-LCYN expected JUN10


Meaning all deliveries will be made in time for the peak summer 2010 timetable.


Timetable Changes

BACF will increase NCE to 2 x daily with the re introduction of the afternoon service 03Aug09 - 01SEP09.

The BA8737/BA8738 LCY/FRA/LCY will not operate from 03AUG09-31AUG09 MON-FRI.

[DutchBird-757]

Thanks BAladdy. We were just discussing the reg issue on the flightdeck the other day. Very good to see they continued the LCY regs!

Also heard the initial two aircraft delivery dates have been pulled forward by two weeks resulting in the dates mentioned above. First routes for the 170 will be EDI and AMS.

In case anyone wondered why we didn't use the LCYA reg for the RJ85, it was used on a Dassault Falcon 900EX by the London City Jet Aviation Centre.

[BAladdy]

Cityflyer cant reduce any further aircraft until the new aircraft come, so doubt ZAX will be next month.
BACF's currently need 7 RJ100's and 2 RJ85's to operate their current schedule so they could send one more back before the E-JETS go into service on the 28th September. This would however mean there would be No standby aircraft.

Who are the RJ100's leased through??. Does anyone know the dates they are meant to be handed back?.

Also what date the 2 RJ85's leases comes to a end??. They were only delivered last year.... Could the 2 RJ85's stick about until after the Summer 2010 schedule to allow for additional frequencies and new routes??

[cornishsimon]

dont forget that BA still have options on the EMB's so if they like what they get and expansion/new routes is on the cards when things start picking up i would expect to see them take the options.

CS

[cmf146]

They are leased from BAE and all but one of the RJ100's are due to be handed back this year, although this could change. Which will leave just the two RJ85's and one RJ100 to return.
So the currrent plan sees a fleet of 5 Emb's and 3 RJ's by year end.

[virginblue]

What is the current load factor of the Cityflyer flights? Replacing a 110seat RJ100 with a 70seat E170 is a significant reduction of capacity (as the larger E190s will not arrive for another 12 months or). Or is Cityflyer not selling a third or so of the seats on RJ100 for performance / comfort reasons?

[celso75]

Will the E-Jets be owned by BA or will they be leased?

[nebpor]

virginblue - they are most certainly still filling the RJ to capacity - I frequently have uncomfortable journeys in them :{

We got one of the 15-row RJ versions recently ... must have only been on the GLA route as another plane was out of commission - it was sheer luxury in comparison!

[32SQDN]

What is the situation regarding crewing of the new Embraer's. Given that there were originally 11 RJ's and they will be replaced by another 11 a/c, does this change the required number of pilots and cabin crew?

[DutchBird-757]

Expect new routes from LCY next year. Source confidential.

[WHBM]

As you rightly state Cityflyer are already three aircraft down on the operational fleet of last December, and AW has also now left. It ferried to Exeter last Saturday for hand-back, and AX is due to follow next month with all this quite a few months ahead of the replacement Emb's coming on-line.
This is a poor practice which one can find elsewhere, eg on the railway, where assets start to be disposed, or at least withdrawn from service, before their replacements are delivered and commissioned, and leads inevitably to unreliability of service.

Regarding the aircraft handed back at end of lease, most leases make provision for the lease to be extended short-term on the same terms if both parties agree. As BAe appear to have no new customer in prospect for the aircraft (which may indeed be performing their last commercial services here) they wouldn't be averse, I'm sure, to maintaining fleet strength for a while, so it just seems parsimony on the part of BA. I can't believe the whole fleet is coming up for major and expensive checks all at once.

[BAladdy]

What is the situation regarding crewing of the new Embraer's. Given that there were originally 11 RJ's and they will be replaced by another 11 a/c, does this change the required number of pilots and cabin crew?

Cabin Crew compliment will reduce from 3 to 2. They need to reduce the headcount by about 25. The head count is to drop at the EDI base. It is hoped it will be achieved through part time working, unpaid leave and voluntary severence.

Will the E-Jets be owned by BA or will they be leased?

The aircraft are owned by BA.

What is the current load factor of the Cityflyer flights? Replacing a 110seat RJ100 with a 70seat E170 is a significant reduction of capacity (as the larger E190s will not arrive for another 12 months or). Or is Cityflyer not selling a third or so of the seats on RJ100 for performance / comfort reasons?

The BA routes are high yielding ex LCY. They easily fill the second 0720 ex EDI M-Thu and the 1600 Wed-Fri. The last 2 ex LCY most nights. Otherwise they can have anything between 20-60 pax during the day,

FRA, AMS, ZRH, GLA and MAD will be more suited to the E170 than the RJ's when it comes to loads.

[AirLCY]

ZAX wont leave the fleet until the E170 enters service, the RJ fleet cant operate with no spare, it's not relaible enough. The fleet needs to remain at 10 hulls, 9 of which operational. In the current climate the only routes that need high capacity are morning and evening GLA and EDI flights as mentioned by BA Laddy. I guess this will change in the coming year or two when the economy starts to pick up. It will be interesting to see if new routes do start next summer, all depends on economy and competition I guess. Some EDI flights are on sale on E170 in Oct.

[cornishsimon]

so any suggestions as to what the new routes are likely to be ?

[Leading_Edge_190]

Does anyone know if there is any plans for pilot recruitment for the embraer? I hear that alot of the pilots are due to be retrained from the RJ, but will they need any extra hands?

[BAladdy]

so any suggestions as to what the new routes are likely to be ?

Depends on what the range will be for the new aircraft.

I don't think the E-Jets have the range but the one route BA would make a alot of money on ex LCY is DME. BA carry alot of customers on the LHR/DME that are in the banking business. LCY would cut out around 2-3 hours off there journey time.

That route a side any of the following routes would probably do well as BA have a large number of corperate account in those cities

DUS,
HAM,
STR,
OSL,
ARN,
HEL,
LIN ( 2 flights a day and would be much more popular than the failed MXP was)


I also reckon they will try and add another leisure route or two. If the aircraft has the range AGP and FAO would be well recieved and used by those who work in the city and go down there for golf weekends etc. Other possible leisure routes PRG, BUD, VCE, and FCO.

[WHBM]

Even if the Embraer (or even the A318) had the range out of LCY (and I don't think they do) Moscow DME would be improbable, as the UK-Russia market is still tightly regulated, and the Russians would never agree to anything that didn't give at least an equal advantage to their own carriers. Not a competitive approach, but at least they look after their own. Always have done, always will do.

The list of routes suggested as likely to do well unfortunately contains too many points which have failed in the past.

LCY only does well from major business destinations, inbound early morning, outbound afternoon/evening, so not for aircraft actually based at LCY. Everything else is a filler that hopefully covers its direct operating costs. If LCY allowed operators to park during the day I'm sure we would see a lot of aircraft stood there between morning and evening. However there isn't the ground space to permit this.

[LondonCityBoy]

Passing through LCY last weekend and noticed they have erected a large scaffolding/hoarding around G-BXAR.

Does this mean it's being a) scrapped b) repaired or c) other ???

[Cyrano]

Does this mean it's being a) scrapped b) repaired or c) other ???

a) scrapped

[BAladdy]

The first E170 flights are now available to book online. Flights only loaded until 24/10. Guess Winter 09/10 flights will be loaded in next few weeks.

1st Aircraft will enter service 28/09 at will operate

Mon-Fri

(28/09-23/10)

BA8700 LCY/EDI
BA8703 EDI/LCY
BA8453 LCY/AMS
BA8544 AMS/LGW
BA8712 LCY/EDI
BA8719 EDI/LCY

Saturday

(03/10-24/10)

BA8475 LCY/NCE
BA8476 NCE/LCY


Sunday

(04/10-18/10)

BA8738 LCY/FRA
BA8737 FRA/LCY

2nd Aircraft 1will enter service 28/09 at will operate

Monday-Friday

(12/10-23/10)

BA8731 FRA/LCY
BA8732 LCY/FRA
BA8733 FRA/LCY
BA8734 LCY/FRA
BA8735 FRA/LCY
BA8736 LCY/FRA

Saturday

NO Flight Scheduled

Sunday

NO flight Scheduled

[sam1993]

The BA website is currently showing all flights as operating by either the RJ100 or 'Not Available' I presume any flight with aircraft showing 'Not Available' will be operated by the new E170 :confused:

Sam

[AirLCY]

I checked Expedia - it shows the flights as E170's too.

[DutchBird-757]

Slight mistake on the first aircraft MON-FRI rotation with BA8544 AMS-LGW. Surely that must be the BA8454 LCY. Nice to see the aircraft loaded in the system. Can't wait till we get to see/operate them.

A very nice improvement for our passengers! :ok:

[speedrestriction]

A nice improvement in terms of pax comfort but it won't land as nicely as the RJ, but then again few aircraft do. Are the Cityflyer aircraft getting a HGS fit?

[DutchBird-757]

The E-jets won't get the HGS fitted. Purely because 50% of our approaches at CAT I (LCY) and all crew need to be re-trained in using the HGS system during LVP's. So it's not a practical nor cost efficient system for our type of operation. I would love to have a play with it though.

[Skipness One Echo]

Is G-BXAR still at LCY or has it already been scrapped?

[Deep and fast]

Most of it was there this arvo

D and F

[celso75]

:confused: What is HGS?

[CheekyVisual]

Having landed the RJ at LCY I think a Head up display would be bloody brilliant for that approach CAT 1 or not ! Of course it would fall off and knock the captain out the first time you "arrived" on a windy day !

By the by has anyone in sao paulo tried repeatedly dropping a 170 from 30 feet on to solid concrete at 120 knots ? Will be interesting to see how the little electric jets stand up to the hammering.

[DutchBird-757]

celso75, HGS stands for Head-up Guidance System. I've included a link here (http://www.rockwellcollins.com/products/cs/br/avionics-systems/hgs/index.html).

[DutchBird-757]

Now something different. Embraer released a press release that they expect to hit another milestone with the delivery of the 600th E-jet (+/- 900 firm orders) within the next coming months.

So, who is going to get it? If my calculations are corrent then nr.600 will be delivered in Sep. Most propably late september so little change it will be BACF. We'll most propably get E Jet #587, #591 and #611. Don't quote me on this. :ugh:

Current delivery rate is roughly 13.3 aircraft in 1Q09. The Augsburg Airways (LH) E190 (cn 190000290) was one of the last to be delivered (June 9th IIRC)

The 400th was delivered to Republic Airways and #500 to Air France.

Currently the E-jet family flew more than 110 million passengers since it was launched in 2004. Embraer recently celebrated their 5th year E-jet anniversary and has 52 E-Jet customers in 32 countries.

[WHBM]

Is G-BXAR still at LCY or has it already been scrapped?

Scrutiny of the aircraft after arriving through Gate 24 last night showed the horizontal stabiliser is off, and the fin (which protrudes above the fence) has been painted black to conceal the BA logo, while through gaps in the fencing panels around the aircraft you can see that various scrapping plant is in place, although it looks to have just had component removal so far.

When it is reduced to scrap and removed in skips, I presume this will only take place out of operational hours.

Incidentally, good loads both ways on BA yesterday out of/in to City. Do I hear business is looking up again ? Catering also far better than you get on competing CityJet/Air France.

[nebpor]

Yep, had a good look at G-BXAR when I landed from Glasgow this morning - from what I could see, all flaps and stabilisers removed and the engines are now gone from their pylons as well.

I've flown on it a few times I think - looks quite sad sitting there .... I've grown fond of the wee RJs :(

[DutchBird-757]

BACF Winter 09/10 timetable will be loaded into BA.com earliest in AUG. New BACF routes to be announced for start in JUN/JUL 2010. I expect these to be announced together with the start of the Embraer operation/promotion.

We currently hold 7 sets of slots ex-LCY. This due to the demise of Flightline (ex DUB/NCE/EDI flights) and the W/O of 'AR'.

My money is on Prague being one of them. :oh:

[cornishsimon]

any chance of seeing DUB back again ?

[RB311]

You can always fly Cityjet to DUB

[BAladdy]

New fleet to cut environmental impact, says Cityflyer - Wharf (http://www.wharf.co.uk/2009/06/new-fleet-to-cut-environmental.html)

Have just read this article online about BACF. Looks like BACF will add more leisure routes ex LCY. The say that the BCN inparticular has proved even more popular this summer. Hopefully this means they will be able to add a second daily service. A afternoon service ex LCY would make a good edition, As would a morning Saturday service during the summer peak.

BACF Winter 09/10 timetable will be loaded into BA.com earliest in AUG. New BACF routes to be announced for start in JUN/JUL 2010. I expect these to be announced together with the start of the Embraer operation/promotion.

We currently hold 7 sets of slots ex-LCY. This due to the demise of Flightline (ex DUB/NCE/EDI flights) and the W/O of 'AR'.

My money is on Prague being one of them. :oh:Prague would be a good fit for the leisure market and would do well year round. Interesting that they are almost ready to announce the new routes. Do we know if it looks likely to be just one route or a few.

A few months I asked if the E-Jets will be able to fly to destanations like FAO or AGP from LCY without any restriction, however the exact details about the aircraft and it's performance were not availble when I first asked. Can any BACF insiders answer the question yet??.

[DutchBird-757]

Sorry mate, haven't heard anything about the E-jet's performance out of LCY yet.

[towser]

My understanding is that with the 170 and prob the 190 there is no performance issue. In other words you can take off at max in all conditions. This of course is yet to be seen!