BA Cityflyer

[Skipness One Echo]

The strike by the loonies at BASSA will undoubtedly have an effect on forward bookings at BA CitiFlyer. The public won't see the difference.

Are CFE CC not allowed to join BASSA?

[BAladdy]

Was looking at the charter flight timetable on the BAA Edinburgh website earlier and noticed that a new flight to CAG with a BA flight number has been added

According to the timetable the weekly flight is for a tour operator called Sardatur Holidays.

The flight will operate from the 29th May 2010 until the 25th September 2010. The flight, BA4513 will operate every Saturday departing EDI at 10:30, with the return flights landing back in EDI at 19:30

BAA Edinburgh: Charter flight timetable (http://www.edinburghairport.com/portal/page/Edinburgh%5EGeneral%5EFlight+information%5EFlight+timetables %5ECharter+flight+timetable/)

Anyone able to confirm if BACF are operating this flight?.

[marlowe]

Skipness BASSA is a closed door for Cityflyer cabin crew .

[virginblue]

Any word on a DUS route by BACF for next summer?

[towser]

BALaddy If the BAA EDI website is anything to go by that flight has been on there for the last few years. BAConnect did operate a charter to Cagliari I think 2 or 3 summers ago and it was on the BAA website last year as well but we didn't operate it. We certainly haven't been told we're doing it but then that wouldn't mean anthing!
ViriginBlue; What DUS route? The last time we went to DUS it was direct from EDI and everything we do is now through LCY. If you mean from LCY then no idea but I doubt it.

[AirLCY]

Sardatur expands UK flight offering

(16 December 2009)
Sardinian specialist Sardatur Holidays is expanding its UK offering to Cagliari with direct weekly services from Edinburgh and Manchester with British Airways (BA).

The new service, which commences on May 29 2010 and which will have a club-class cabin will complement the BA service Sardatur offers from Heathrow to the Sardinian capital.

[towser]

AIRLCY I stand corrected. In fact thinking about it now it wasn't Cagliari we went to but Alghero! Also having done some looking the EDI flight is not direct but via Manchester.

As for PMI and IBZ from LCY we haven't seen the performance figures for the 190 yet but they will be configured as 98 seats.

[parky747]

Rather disappointing to see these nice new E170 don’t have individual passenger tv screens. Do these a/c have any tv screens in at all? if not its a bit backward for a manual cabin safety demo in todays world!

[towser]

No tv screens fitted in any of them. Not only is it an unnecessary expense on a short haul aircraft but its also an unwanted weight which would restrict the payload out of LCY.

[DutchBird-757]

Why would you need tv screens when you've got Highlife magazine... ;)

[virginblue]

ViriginBlue; What DUS route? The last time we went to DUS it was direct from EDI and everything we do is now through LCY. If you mean from LCY then no idea but I doubt it

Both Cityjet and BACF have repeatedly requested slots for a DUSLCY service at DUS in the past two or so years (can be looked up at the German slot co-ordinator's website). Now with rumours that Lufthansa will axe DUSLCY because the ATRs are leaving the fleet in 2010, it would make some sense for either Cityjet or BACF to give DUS a go. Although a 50seater aircraft certainly is more suited for such a route, an E170 might be the more sensible offering than a Cityjet RJ85.

I must admit that I do not know whether the route was not started before for commercial reasons or due to a lack of suitable slots at DUS. Given the traditional slot issues at DUS I would suspect the latter.

[wxjedi]

Could a Cityjet F50 do DUS-LCY?

[dhc83driver]

I`m sure the F50 could do LCY - DUS, but why would you want be sat on a 20year old turboprop for 1h30 when you could be on a brand new EJET and be there in less than an hour!. ;)

[virginblue]

The route has always been served by an ATR42 turboprop, first by EAE, later by Lufthansa. So not much change if a Fokker 50 would take over (VLM used to serve nearby MGL (or "Düsseldorf Express" as it was called) from LCY for many years.

Cityjet's applications started before the VLM take-over which explains why they always specified the RJ85 in their applicatiions. If they are awarded slots, they can, of course, use any aircraft type they want.

[WHBM]

why would you want be sat on a 20year old turboprop for 1h30 when you could be on a brand new EJET and be there in less than an hour!.
Possibly because on such a route a $1m 50-seat turboprop stands a little more chance of breaking even than a brand new $35m 70-seat jet. And thus the route might well survive long enough for you to be able to use it again.

[dhc83driver]

removing tongue from cheek on what i still believe is the cityflyer forum!

Dus has always been hard to keep consistent volume. Even on the established routes BA had from BHX and MAN the aircraft was always changing from 110 seat RJ to 50 seat EMB 145. A new route from city would benefit from a small aircraft with lots of rotations to build up the route.

If cityflyer starts it will be a nice brand new $35M 76 seat jet, or even a nice 97 seat one!

[BAladdy]

Dus would be a good addition to the BACF route network. As would STR and possibly HAM.

On other news and sorry if it has already been discussed but I read in the BACF staff communication, the flyer, BACF are to delay the delivery of the last E190 to Novemeber rather than the previously planned delivery date of June.

In a quote from the flyer "It is important to stress that this delay will not impact on people’s jobs as the Company will carry the staff surplus through this five month period. It is also important to advise that this aircraft delay will not impact on our current route network, the 11th aircraft will bring growth from our planned Summer 2010 operation".

I wonder if this means winter 10/11 will see more ski routes and maybe more winter city break destinations such as WAW, PRG, BUD and MUC.

[DutchBird-757]

Besides the EDI flights to CAG expect GLA-ALC and GLA-PMI as well for the summer season. Those are still unofficial. Maybe someone can have a look into the scheduele for these GLA charters?

[HZ123]

One slight concern here from my Waterworld enclave! Have we not done all this before at least twice under various names and it has all ended up in tears? I just hope that this will not be the same conclusion once more. Can you convince me that the EMB is robust enough to fulfill LOCO weekend work? Expect to see other carriers with larger aircraft covering these routes as well!

[dhc83driver]

I think the Emb is in a class of its own, Due to its size it fits into a niche market. I think that's why the 170 has been popular in gaining ad hock charter work as no other aircraft fits into its size and performance envelope. If we are doing the CAG charters form Edi according to Sardatur website the flights will be configured J class. Hardly loco work. Due to its size i think we will do well. sometimes you do not need a 130 - 150 seat 737 or airbus. We will be able to pick up all the extra or unusual work when a large aircraft will not do.

[towser]

HZ123 Yes we have done most of this before and yes it mainly has ended in tears! However the tears before were due,mainly, to a combination of technical problems with the aircraft and crew levels. The tech problems had a knock on effect on the crew levels due to hours. The Embraer so far is proving very reliable indeed and we are told we have enough crew!! Also if the charters are done from EDI and GLA crews don't need to be positioned around thus saving more hours. Like yourself not all of us are convinced but we will have the spare aircraft capacity at the weekends so we might as well give it a go. If it works it makes money.

[DutchBird-757]

A. Some good news;

Extra frequency added to new London City routes. (PMI,IBZ and EDI)

British Airways is to increase peak season frequency on its new services to Majorca and Ibiza, less than a month after announcing the launch of the new routes from London City Airport. The new services to the Balearic Islands direct from the Docklands take off in May 2010.

But the destinations are proving so popular that British Airways is now planning to increase the schedule from three to five flights a week to Palma and from three to four flights a week to Ibiza during July and August.

Passengers who book on ba.com before January 26 can also take advantage of the BA sale, with one way all-inclusive fares from £61.

Travelling direct from London City on the brand new Embraer 190 aircraft, passengers can be on the beach in the Balearics in less than three hours.

It’s the first time British Airways has operated leisure only flights from London City but there is a growing demand for flights to the sun, particularly with customers looking for short breaks.

The initial three-times-a-week service will operate on Friday, Sunday and Monday, offering an ideal schedule for passengers looking for a weekend or longer break. The extra Majorca flights will operate on Tuesdays and Thursdays and the extra Ibiza flights on Wednesdays.

Luke Hayhoe, commercial manager for BA CityFlyer, said: “We are delighted with the response from passengers and our forward bookings demonstrate their commitment to these new leisure routes. It was always our intention to increase the frequency if the demand was there, now less than a month after announcing the new routes we can fulfil that promise.”

British Airways is also increasing frequency to Edinburgh from London City, with seven flights a day from capital to capital from March 29.


B. Some less good news;
LCY - AMS down to 3 daily flights during the summer. Most propably to accomodate some of the above mentioned.

C. Other news; (E190 ops)
G-LCYJ Embraer EMB 190 SR On order. Due 07 Mar 10 - Due I/S 15 Mar 09.
G-LCYK Embraer EMB 190 SR On order. Due 11 Apr 10
etc..

[BAladdy]

Looks like LCY/FRA being reduced in frequency from 4 to 3 daily. BA8737/8738 removed from timetable.

Very suprised to see there is no increase in frequency for the BCN and NCE services.

Does anyone know if the current timetable in the system is the finalised one or are more changes expected?.

[DutchBird-757]

Again, the late FRA could well free up one aircraft to do a PMI or IBZ. (1600 till 2000z) And if that aircraft is a LCY nightstopper then you'll have an aircraft available from 1500z till LCY closure at 2230z.

The last E190 that is now due in OCT IIRC was there for expansion. So maybe once this aircraft is available the AMS/FRA will return. I suspect the cxd AMS to be the 8453/8454.

If above is correct then they are putting a lot of weight into these PMI/IBZ's!

[32SQDN]

I presume this good news with additional frequencies means that all the flight crew have completed their T/R on the EMB, now.

[towser]

Only about half the crew are through or in process of completing training. All training won't be complete till around July or August .

[jubilee]

Ref. the BA flights to Palma.

Just booked my Daughter and Granddaughter on the above flight from City airport,
and found a far better price on Opodo.
Regards,
Jubilee

[marlowe]

See the Inland revenue have decided how much tax the crew should pay on FDP got the letter this morning, only 45 pence will be tax free the rest will be taxed at your usual rate!!

[DutchBird-757]

Still waiting for the post. But not surprised here.
And do you think the FDP is gonna be raised to reflect this change? :mad:

[DutchBird-757]

It's been rather quiet in this thread but here's the first picture of the first of five Embraer E190SR, G-LCYJ, in SJK!

Aero World News Photos (http://www.aeroworldnews.com.br/foto_detalhe.php?codigo=7236)

[AircraftOperations]

What sunshine routes will the Embraers be hitting this summer?
I heard a rumour about a Northern UK Airport and an Italian Airport.
Is this correct? Plus, what other stuff is on the cards?

[DutchBird-757]

Sunshine stuff on the E190 besides LCY's PMI and IBZ;

EDI-MAN-CAG (Cagliari)
GLA-BCN
GLA-PMI

And on the RJ;
GLA-AGP

Aircraft types subject to change.

[BAladdy]

GLA-BCN
GLA-PMI

And on the RJ;
GLA-AGP

Any ideas which tour operator these flights are being operated for?.

[airhumberside]

Barrhead Travel

[AirLCY]

No charter flights are planned on the RJ100, as said before the RJ100 from GLA wouldnt make it with a full load. All charters will be operated by E190. There will be a few more than the ones mentioned I heard.

[BAladdy]

No charter flights are planned on the RJ100, as said before the RJ100 from GLA wouldnt make it with a full load. All charters will be operated by E190. There will be a few more than the ones mentioned I heard.Maybe they will use it on the BCN or PMI ex GLA as BACF a couple of years ago operated a charter service on the RJ to PMI ex EDI. Anyway I thought the last RJ100 would hae left the fleet by August.

Do you know if the GLA charters will operate on BACF's quiet operational day i.e Saturday/Sunday or are they planned to operate on weekdays aswell.

Any ideas if EDI will see anymore charters??.

It is good to see BACF using their fleet for charter work. Especially on days such as Saturday's when the fleet usually sits around doing nothing.

[DutchBird-757]

The GLA-AGP is the only one on the RJ from April onwards, and as far as I know all charters will be once a week during weekends.

What other routes have you heard AirLcy?

[BAladdy]

The GLA-AGP is the only one on the RJ from April onwards, and as far as I know all charters will be once a week during weekends.Thanks for clarifying that. With a start date of April and a E170 and a RJ85 being the nightstopping aircraft I am guessing that the AGP will be on the RJ85.

Talking of the RJ's, with the last E190 being delayed until October will BACF be holding on to one of the RJ's until it arrives. Also will the RJ85's, being the last two RJ's to be added to the fleet, be the last to leave??.

[Oxjob]

Did any of the old Citiexpress lads get taken on to Cityflyer when Flybe took over? Or is everyone still at Flybe? Is the Manchester base now made up of a mixture of crews or are some of the usual suspects still there?

[AirLCY]

Not heard which routes, but heard there will be more than the 4 flights a week mentioned, and def none on the RJ85/100 or E170. All will be E190, so I guess the night stop plan will change??? The slots show they start in May I think, I think Cityflyer should have about 3 E190's by then, anyone know the full delivery schedule?

[cornishsimon]

fairly up2 date schedule is on Jethro's
they do hold options on the E190
if this goes well then you could see them take the options!

[BAladdy]

BACF this summer will operate the usual Saturday MAD/LCY service and the Sunday LCY/MAD as they have done since starting the route. Surely wouldn't this route be more popular with leisure and some business pax if BACF at least offered a Sunday flight ex MAD to cater for those pax on weekend breaks. Especially during the summer season. I know it would do well.

What they could do is operate a Saturday MAD/LCY/MAD service departing at the same times as the Monday-Thursday BA8752/BA8753. With the aircraft day stopping in MAD before operating a BA8754/BA8755 on a Sunday. It is better than the a/c sitting around in EDI for close to 30 hours.

Also I noticed BACF will operate 3 flights ex LCY to EDI on a Saturday departing at 08:40, 08:45 and 09:30. ( 2 x E170, 1 x E190SR). I think they will struggle to fill those seats.

[32SQDN]

When do BACF take delivery of the first E190SR and are all the E170's delivered now?

[WHBM]

If I am not mistaken .....

The final unit of the 6 Embraer 170 was delivered at the end of January. The first of the 5 Embraer 190 wll be along about mid-March, four will be in place by the start of the summer programme with the final one coming in October.

Meanwhile there are still 2 RJ85s and 3 RJ100s in service, so it looks like a one-for-one replacement, except that would mean one lone RJ lasting through the summer. Is that the case ?

[DutchBird-757]

At the end of FEB we should be down to 1 RJ100 and 2 RJ85's. Than somewhere down the line the last RJ100 will go before the last 2 RJ85's on June 21st.

All E170's have now been delivered and the first E190SR should arrive on 7th of March for EIS on the 15th. Picture here; Aero World News Photos (http://www.aeroworldnews.com.br/foto_detalhe.php?codigo=7236)

The GLA-AGP will almost certainly be on the RJ85.

By luck I've stumbled across an old friend, G-BZAW, on the other side of the globe. Details below if you're interested. Picture here (http://www.luchtvaartfoto.nl/item/126/Eerste_Australische_Avro_RJ100_afgeleverd.htm).

PERTH – Cobham Aviation Services Australia (Cobham) has signed an agreement with Chevron Australia to provide fixed wing aviation services to support Chevron’s operations in the north-west.

Cobham will provide fixed wing flights to and from Perth and Karratha to Barrow Island to support Chevron’s operations and projects, including the Gorgon Project. The initial contract is valued approximately ERU108 million, extending until 2016.

These modern aircraft have been designed to incorporate a passenger and
quarantine-friendly cabin with the aircraft interior planned especially for this project. The first of the RJ100 aircraft will be in service during the first half of 2010, followed closely by a second aircraft in 2011

[cheesycol]

modern :confused: :}

[HZ123]

Modern-It is Australia we are talking about here. If it were New Zealand it would be the 'ATP'?

[A Nonny Mouse]

Call me old fashioned, but the Jungle Jets just don't look as nice as the 146s when viewed from the tower. Very bland (and the 170s are a bit too nose up)!

Also, their reliability does not seem to be any better (teething troubles I'll assume).

Which one is more fun to fly?

I would wager that you would rather be in a robust 146 on a 25G35kt crosswind landing at city?

Still waiting to see the EMBs tested properly in bad WX (might hide under the console).

ANM

[DutchBird-757]

I would definately go for the looks of the Jungle Jet. But in a stiff crosswind I feel quite comfortable in my 146 at the moment. Not having been on the E-Jet in a windy day I can't judge them.

Regarding our summer charters; (Combination of sat and/or sun work)
GLA-FAO-GLA on E190. Dep GLA 0530 - 0840 as BA 4535. Dep FAO 0920 - 1230 as BA 4536.

GLA-ALC-GLA on E190. Dep GLA 1355 - 1700 as BA 4527. Dep ALC 1800 - 2100 as BA 4528.

GLA-PMI-GLA on E190. Dep GLA 0600 - 0900 as BA 4521. Dep PMI 0940 - 1240 as BA 4522.

GLA-BCN-GLA E190. Dep GLA 0500- 0740 as BA 4531. Dep BCN 0820 - 1100 as BA 4532.

EDI-MAN-CAG-MAN-EDI on E190. Dep EDI 0930 -1415 in CAG as BA 4513.
Dep CAG 1500 - 1945 in EDI as BA 4514.

[towser]

ANM; On what basis do you say the reliability doesn't seem any better than the RJ? Having flown the EMB since its arrival I have yet to have a tech issue at all. There have been a couple of minor problems but they were , as you suggested, teething issues only. As for strong cross winds I'll wait and see!

[OltonPete]

DutchBird-757 has posted on the Glasgow thread the summer IT's but can anyone confirm if there is any BHX flights?

One booking engine is showing BA4523 dep 17.15 BHX and arr back 22.05 Saturdays 24/7 - 14/8. You will notice that the time between dep & arr is
not enough as block to block is at least another 30 minutes if not more.

This flight no is very similar to the Glasgow ones but I can't find the flight in any major online brochures.

This site does chop and change quite a lot but this allows you to go quite a way with booking although not cheap. I won't post a link as it is a commercial site and not just for information only.

Pete

[DutchBird-757]

Pete,

You are right. It's only because of the date that I managed to find these BHX flights. It's on the E190 and the a/c positions from GLA to BHX and then does a PMI and back to GLA arriving in GLA at 2240z. (BA 4523/24)

[OltonPete]

DutchBird-757

Thank you for the information, shame it is not based the weekend but
anything extra at BHX is better than nothing.

Pete

[parky747]

How come MAN is missing out on these charter flights? We are only expected to have the MAN-CAG. Would have been nice to have the option of PMI/IBZ/AGP etc direct from MAN on good old BA again!

[AirLCY]

The last I've now heard from BACF is that there will be up to 7 weekly E190 charters from GLA and 1 EDI during the peak Scottish School holidays, a few of them operate via MAN/BHX a few weeks.

[HZ123]

Once mainline have sorted the 'strike' out and BA management start running the CC, you may well see mainline aircraft actively seeking weekend charter work? It may be to late this year but I woud not be suprised to see BA aircraft at regional airports in the next 1-2 years? If only at weekends?

[BAladdy]

Just noticed BACF have added a additional weekly flight to BCN. Taking the schedule now to daily.

The extra flight will operate on a Saturday starting 8th May and will run through until the 25th September

The Saturday flight timetable will be as follows.

BA8471 LCY 07:00 BCN 10:10

BA8472 BCN 11:00 LCY 12:10

The flight will be operated by a E190SR.

Finally can someone post or message to me what travel operator BACF are operating their GLA/FAO/GLA flights for. Just was gonna book flight with TCX but might try and get a seat only on the BACF flight.

Cheers

[TURIN]

It may be to late this year but I woud not be suprised to see BA aircraft at regional airports in the next 1-2 years? If only at weekends?

I would. I'd be very, very suprised!
It ain't gonna happen, not for a very long time. :sad:

[DutchBird-757]

@ BAladdy. All but AGP are Barrhead Travel charters. As far as I know only the PMI can be booked seperately. Unless anyone else can help with your FAO question? I've asked the question for you in the respective GLA forum.

"Presumably as Barrhead Travel charters none of these flights are available as flight only... The Palma flight can be booked as flight only through Teletickettravel.com. BA are also running a GLA-AGP for Thomas Cook Tour Operations"

[bmaviscount]

How is the lack of business class effecting the operation on the new Embraers?

[BaggageBob]

And what - exactly makes you think there is NO business class on the Embraers ???????

[DutchBird-757]

Indeed, we still have a Club Europe section on the E-Jets. No different than the RJ's. Max Club Europe seats on the E170 is 24 IIRC.

[goldeneye]

Thomson have alloaction on the FAO, dont think its all summer though.

[Jamesair]

I travelled ClubEurope on an E170 flight not long after the introduction of the aircraft to and from AMS. Service was great but on the return leg the crew apologised for not having been able to serve all of the pax in Club World....a/c full and such a short flight.

[bmaviscount]

i could have sworn when BA talked of introducing the E jets to replace the RJs, they described them as single class; was this not the original intention?

[towser]

Certainly not the original intention to be single class only. To be fair the only difference is the service, the seats are the same.

[BAladdy]

Hi All

Noticed on Jethros that the first E190SR was due to be delivered today to EXT. It also says it is not entering service until 15th March. Is this i/s date correct. I thought BACF would want there new aircraft i/s before then.

Anyone any idea of what the aircraft first revenue flight is going to be??

[towser]

It may be sneaked in early but at the moment the first service will be the 8701 from EDI to LCY on the 15th at 0635 then on to AMS and back to LCY.

[BAladdy]

It may be sneaked in early but at the moment the first service will be the 8701 from EDI to LCY on the 15th at 0635 then on to AMS and back to LCY.

May have just answered the question for myself according to BA.COM the first day of operation that I can find is Sunday 14th March.

It is operating EDI-LCY-EDI-LCY-EDI

First sector BA8703 departing EDI 14:55. Followed by BA8712, BA8717 and BA8708

[Flatspin_Fumble]

ANM

You refer to the EMB as a Jungle Jet. Perhaps 12 years ago, you may have got away with that statement, but not now. The family of the E-jets equals those of Boeing and Airbus. It is a fantastic, modern airliner and something that every airline who operates, that airframe, ought to be rightly proud of.

I agree with you, the EMB170 does look a bit short and stuby, for me the old 146/RJ looks a bit like Thunderbird 2 when viewed from the front...... and its so old and expensive to operate. Whilst I think the EMB170 looks a bit short, it does look fantastic in the BA livery. Sorry ANM, the E jet wins my vote.

[irishair2001]

Refering to the Embraers as jungle jets, is because , Embraer's manufacturing facility was bulit from scratch ,literally in the jungle of Brazil and that is the reason they are called "Jungle Jets" :ok:

[DutchBird-757]

Indeed "YJ" was delivered yesterday afternoon in EXT for pre-entry mods. ON the 10th the aircraft flies to MAN. (propably to show it off to the head office. ;) )

On the 11th it heads to Cambridge for training and later that day it arrives at LCY at 1245z to go back to Cambriddge at 1315z.

What happens on the 13th is unknown. On the 14th it operates it's first commercial sectors, starting in EDI on the BA8703, 8712,8717 nightstopping in LCY.

So basically the standard 3 day pre entry mods done in EXT and then straight into promotion/training and entry into service. Not much time wasted to be honest. Maybe one day to cope with unexpeced delays (weather) or something.

[ALLMCC]

Was just wondering if a service from LCY to Belfast would ever be considered in the future? Previous services by Cityjet and Flybe to BHD were unsuccessful due to inappropriate timings and high fares. With the right timings and reasonable fares, it could work for both business and leisure passengers - just a thought!

[parky747]

BACF new E190 looks great, wish there were some MAN ops still!

Photos: Embraer ERJ-190-100LR 190LR Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways-(BA/Embraer-ERJ-190-100LR-190LR/1661310/L/&sid=7faccfe96962fba126b49ac2cf63ebce)

[DutchBird-757]

Only correction to it would be that it's not an 'LR' version but a modified 'STD' one. Now called the '190SR' due to obvious reasons.

[cornishsimon]

Was just wondering if a service from LCY to Belfast would ever be considered in the future? Previous services by Cityjet and Flybe to BHD were unsuccessful due to inappropriate timings and high fares. With the right timings and reasonable fares, it could work for both business and leisure passengers - just a thought!


You never know you might even see some true regional routes!!

[Flatspin_Fumble]

That picture is seriously cool, it looks the business.

[midweeksaint]

Dutchbird
What are the "obvious reasons" for the 190s being 190SRs rather than 190LRs?

[JC25]

I'm guessing Dutchbird is refering to the fact that the "STD" bid sounds a bit like sexually transmitted disease.... :eek:

[Cyrano]

"SR" = Short Runway, ie with steep approach capability? And, I'm guessing (shot in the dark, this), this model might coincidentally also be certified to a maximum of <100 seats (unlike the 114 seats of the standard model) to avoid any pesky scope clause issues? :hmm:

[HeliCraig]

Pardon my ignorance chaps (and chappesses), but what is the Scope Clause you mention?

[DutchBird-757]

It does sound like that come to think of it.

It's the E190SR cause BA wanted a 'Short Runway' version. Embraer had three E190 versions; STD, LR and AR. And now thus the SR, specifically adapted to operate out of LCY. (or other short runways) Plus it's only got <100 seats, much less than the certified 114 seats.

The scope clause in a nutsthell is BA preventing anyone from flying an aircraft with >100 seats unless they are operated by BA mainline. The RJ100's were excempt from the scope clause but it meant that any new aircraft for BACF had to be less than 100 seats. There's more to it but this is why the E190 has got <100 seats.

[AircraftOperations]

I believe there's an Embraer at MAN today, which is nightstopping. Is this in preparation for the summer schedule, or being maintained/painted?

[DutchBird-757]

I think it's there to show the new big toy to the management in Didsbury. :) It's heading to Cambridge tomorrow to do some training.

[HZ123]

Not much point - if they don't like they cannot hand it back!

[UFGBOY]

Could the following be confirmed/altered as necessary please

SEATING CONFIGS

rj 85 - 85
rj 100 - 100
emb 170 - 70
emb 190 - 98

[aee190]

rj 85 - 87
rj 100 - 110
emb 170 - 76
emb 190 - 98

[UFGBOY]

many thanks

[seat 13a]

Flew the 190 LCY-EDI yesterday on the BA 8706 which I think was its first flight - terrific aircraft, noticeably better legroom (33in pitch?) than 170... A real step up for BACF

[DutchBird-757]

34" pitch actually compared to 31" on the E170. And indeed the 8706 yesterday was it's first commercial flight.

[adfly]

Why to BA offer a 34" pitch on the E190 short haul flights and only 31" on their long haul flights??? Surely it should be the other way round.

[SWBKCB]

See post 835 - Cityflyer are restricted to less than 100 seats, so might as well make the seats comfy!

[adfly]

But I still think they need to up their seat pitch on long haul flights, even some of the charter airlines(TOM, TCX) offer an extra couple of inches over 'full service' BA

[WHBM]

Looking at the BA timetable, operations are currently with 9 aircraft - 6 Embraer 170s, and one each of a 190, an RJ85, and an RJ100.

With four more Embraer 190s due this year there is an increase in capability beyond replacing the last two Avros. Which new operations are in prospect ? Which routes are doing well with loads to need their 170 replacing with a 190 ?

[BAladdy]

I do remember someone saying that the last RJ leaves the fleet around June. From that point onwards I believe BACF will need 4 x E190's and 5 x E170's to run the summer flying program, leaving a E170 as a standby .

[GnRdL]

With four more Embraer 190s due this year there is an increase in capability beyond replacing the last two Avros. Which new operations are in prospect ? Which routes are doing well with loads to need their 170 replacing with a 190 ?

In recent days, I read that BA cityflier intends to open two new routes during the summer: ALC-LCY and AGP-LCY.

[DutchBird-757]

With ALC around 915nm and AGP 1050nm from LCY I think that would be a bridge too far, unless the E190 could do it with a sensible payload. It's beyond the E170's limit with a full payload.

You might confuse what you read with the AGP/ALC charters being done from GLA this summer.

On June 21st both RJ85's will leave the fleet and we'll have 10 E-Jets on line. The last E190 has had it's delivery date pushed back to OCT/NOV IIRC because that one was intended for expension.

[13Alpha]

I flew on the new E190 yesterday - very impressive: quiet, comfortable, lots of space.

At a time when BA is in the news for all the wrong reasons, and after its rather halfhearted support of BA Connect and its various previous incarnations, I think the company deserves credit for investing in CityFlyer and in these new aircraft.

Compared to the clapped out B737s and Airbuses plying the EDI route from Gatwick and Heathrow it's nice to sit on a brand new aeroplane for a change.

13Alpha

[Nakata77]

Perhaps in the same way that Crossair recreated SWISS INTL after Swissair's demise, perhaps CityFlyer will either rise from the ashes of BA or take them over and start again.

I see BA going bust if these strikes continue. Good job CityFlyer is a whole different animal.

[codename]

I fly to madrid every week from lcy, and since the introduction of the 170, there has been constant problems with weight and I've been denied boarding because of this issue. And to top it off, they are tagging all the trolley bags in the gate because there isn't enough room in the overhead bins! While the new aircraft are more comfortable, it seems operationally they are having problems, at least to madrid anyway, as the domestic flights I've been on have all been full without any problems. I'm sure the Emb's are more cost effective, but when you are paying out denied boarding compensation at the rate they seem to be, and the loss of passenger confidence this brings, I can't help but think they made a mistake with type selection. If anyone has any better or more accurate info on this, I would be interested to hear it.

[DutchBird-757]

The E170's are weight critical on the MAD route. If it's anything like the RJ's, you'll need the weather to cooperate to accomodate the extra weight in order to make it with a full payload.

I would like to see the E190 on the MAD's but I don't know if that would work performance wise. I haven't seen it in the system and I'm not on the E-Jet yet.

However, there are more improvements coming. As it's still a very new type its 'work in progress' and more performance enhancements are being worked on. We should see thing improve over time. I've seen it leave LCY with a full payload, so it can be done. So apologies and hope to see you on the MAD once I'm on the 'electric jet'. :ok:

[marlowe]

codename as you fly on the MAD route every week then you can see the size and the amount of bags that are brought on by the pax on this route. Pax on this route tend to try and get as much luggage into the cabin due to the long wait at MAD for checked in luggage to appear. I will assume that you dont try and get an oversized trolley bag, suit carrier and briefcase out to the aircraft? Also the LCY groundstaff need to be more vigilant at the gate to ensure that the cabin crew do not end up wasting time having to tag bags for the hold this is time consuming and slows down on time departures. Storage space on the EMB170 is not that different to the RJs.

[flying phil 2007]

noticed that we got an announcement about the increased level of noise being normal on the approach to LCY due to the 'increased glide' . . a bit of vibration is definately noticeable when they part deploy the spoilers on the steep approach.
The only problem with the E170s is trying to get a seat on the LCY-EDI route as the flights always seem to be full! There are less seats available as the E170s are smaller that the RJ's.
They can get the baby Airbus into LCY -wonder if it could do EDI-LCY with cattle class seats? Am sure BA could fill it...

[towser]

Phil think you will find that BA have the same problem with weight issues just going to Shannon so I suspect that were you to fill it with economy seats it probably wouldn't work to EDI.
The vibration on the approach is much more noticeable in the 190 than the 170. Just out of curiosity did you find the announcement useful or did it just draw your attention to the vibration?

[The96er]

Also the LCY ground staff need to be more vigilant at the gate to ensure that the cabin crew do not end up wasting time having to tag bags for the hold this is time consuming and slows down on time departures.

This would make no difference as this would slow down the processing of passengers through the gate and thus would still cause a delay. This problem is the same the world over, not just LCY. Passengers are more reluctant than ever to check bags in.

[flying phil 2007]

towser, I had already noticed the vibration/ buffetting on a couple of earlier flights... maybe because I was interested in seeing the spoilers pop up on the approach,,,
was wondering why they have started making the announcement?
presume they have had some comments..
BTW- the vibration is no big deal...
~ they just need to have an announcement that makes sense!

[towser]

We didn't think the announcement was very good either. I don't know what the vibration down the back on the 190 is like but from the flight deck it is much more noticeable than the 170.

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Towser, my friend, and I thought I had been banned for life from Pprune!

As a passenger on our 195's the only vibes we have in the back are good ones.

I always thought the old 146/RJ when the flaps were selected up sounded like a tube train approaching Hatton Cross.

:):)

[towser]

Flatspin its a result of the steep approach into LCY and the spoilers deploying to maintain thrust levels it doesn't happen on a normal 3 degree approach.

[marlowe]

the96er it would make a difference. The cabin crew wouldnt have to wrestle the bags from the pax on the aircraft tag them in the galley and get them down to the hold. As you say it is a problem the world over but the groundstaff could make it easier if they took the trouble to do their job correctly and tagged and stopped over size bags at the gate, this would stop there being bag problems on the aircraft at departure time, and then delays as the cabin crew then have to do the groundstaffs job for them to ensure that the cabin is safe for departure .

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Towser
I know - I have been doing the job for a few years now, been to quite a few places with steep approaches in my time, with attendant obstacles all around - just trying to inject a bit of humour!

I do know a bit about thrust levels and spoilers actually, however, I only have 8000 hrs jet time, out of 20000 + and I am still learning, thank you for your info.

:)

[WHBM]

towser, I had already noticed the vibration/ buffetting on a couple of earlier flights... maybe because I was interested in seeing the spoilers pop up on the approach,,,
was wondering why they have started making the announcement?
presume they have had some comments..
BTW- the vibration is no big deal...
Some (not all) prop crews on the F50 and Do328 have made comments about vibration/noise ahead of going into final approach configuration into LCY (the Dornier seems prone to yawing/nosing at this time like a dog following a scent) for some years, it doesn't seem to have affected them at all. Haven't experienced the Dash 400 into LCY yet, but that has notable vibration on just about any standard approach. Maybe we were just spoiled by the good old RJ .....

[DutchBird-757]

The last three RJs will be withdrawn as follows;
- G-CFAA (E3373) on 19/4
- G-LCYB (E2383) on 31/5 -> NEW, was 21/6*
- G-LCYC (E2385) on 15/6 -> NEW, was 21/6*
* Note. Can't find double confirmation so might be different.

EMB190 delivery dates have changed & are now expected to be:
G-LCYK (19000343) on 10/4 with service entry due 15/4 -> First picture here (http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m114/RafaelMaul/IMG_7163copy.jpg).
G-LCYL (19000346) on 29&30/04 & 01/05with service entry due 30/5 (?)
G-LCYM (19000351) on 27/28/29/5 with service entry due 2/6
G-LCYN (190003??) on 13/11 with service entry due 22/11 -> Delayed delivery.

[flying phil 2007]

vibration/ buffet on Emb 170s. .

maybe while we are twiddling our thumbs we could come up with an appropriate announcement for the approach into LCY.. I was thinking of . .

"the extra noise and vibration you hear is the Captain firing the retro-rockets so we don't slam into the runway in a ball of fire at 200 mph. You might like to place your head betwen your legs and kiss your @rse goodbye.."

any better suggestions ??

[parky747]

Anyone know the reason for this movement Tues 27/4?

BA4501 arrives MAN from London City at 1325 and BA4502 depts back to LCY at 1730.

[marlowe]

Ad hoc charter

[BAladdy]

Does anyone know the flight details of the last revenue RJ85's flight before it exits service on the 15 June??

Also where and when it is planned to position for storage?

[AircraftOperations]

Guess that ad-hoc charter was likely to be Election related, given the route and timings.

[DutchBird-757]

Looks like the last RJ revenue flight will be on June 13th to BCN and back. It will then position to Kemble on the 15th. Before that there are a couple of BCN's and a single GLA and that's it.

[Lord Molton Brown]

Whilst I assume BA Cityflyer. being a subsiduary of British Airways, will not be affected by any industrial action as was the case by Unites pathetic action, a few weeks ago, do any of you guys know of any possible strike dates? Or is it now history and the spec wearing, mclinty or what ever his name is, has called it a day and realised the WW is the boss.

[Lord Molton Brown]

What are they going to do with it when it reaches Kemble? Put it up for auction or stick it in a museum? Its always sad to see airframes go, but life goes on, feel the same about my series 2a Landy , 1966, but apart from a flat battery, its a good one, just like the RJ, made in Great Britain and proud of that.

Delighted and nice to see the new fleet being introduced, should mix well with the Flybe business model in a couple of years.

[DutchBird-757]

Well if there has been a date selected then we'll find our through newspapers etc first I presume. Luckely BACF stays business as usual.

Once the aircraft reach Kemble it's handed back to the leasing company and then it's end of story as far as BA is concerned. G-BZAW has already found a new owner and maybe 3 others as well.

The stories about BACF and Flybe have been going round for ages. Same as full integration within BA. Speculation aside, whatever happens let's just hope it's in our best interest. I say, bring on the Bombardier C-Series...:ok:

[Lord Molton Brown]

I agree. at the end of the day, the best for all will occur.

[PlymSpotter]

It appears there are some charters lined up for Summer 2011 already, flying for Thomson Airways.

GLA-MAH-GLA as BA2330/2380 on Fridays is one somebody pointed out to me.

E190 operated I'd presume. There's going to be some happy pax when they see the legroom compared to TOM's own metal.

[BAladdy]

Is BACF planning to operate any charter flights during Winter 10/11

Also wth BACF adding another E190 in November, is there any word of some new routes being added this winter

GLA-MAH-GLA as BA2330/2380 on Fridays is one somebody pointed out to me.
Had a look at the Thomson brochure and it looks like BACF are operating the following charter flights ex GLA Summer 2011

Friday's

GLA-PMI-GLA-MAH-GLA

Saturday

GLA-ALC-GLA

Sunday

GLA-FAO-GLA

Thomas Cook have the following BACF charter flight operating ex GLA

Sunday

GLA-AGP-GLA

[BAladdy]

Article taken from BA News online.

Routes extended for island hotspots

British Airways' new London City flights to the Balearic Islands have proved so popular with customers that the routes are to be extended this autumn.

The summer-only flights, launched in May, were due to end in September, but will now be extended for a further five weeks. The Friday and Sunday flights to Mallorca and Ibiza, on brand new Embraer 190 aircraft, will continue until October 31, enabling a long weekend or longer breaks. The extension also means flights will operate until the end of the school half-term holidays.

Luke Hayhoe, commercial manager for BA CityFlyer, said: "These leisure routes have really taken off from London City, they proved so popular that we have already increased frequency to Mallorca to five flights a week and to Ibiza to four flights a week in July and August. "Now we have the opportunity to extend the season and customers can enjoy some late sun with the excellent autumn climate that the Balearic Islands can offer."


The flight will operate 2 x weekly from 17th September to 31st October:

London City to Palma

BA8483 LCY 07:10 PMI 10:25 --- Friday Only ---
BA8483 LCY 13:00 PMI 16:15 --- Sunday Only ---

BA8484 PMI 11:10 LCY 12:25 --- Friday Only ---
BA8484 PMI 17:00 LCY 18:15 --- Sunday Only ---


London City to Ibiza

BA8461 LCY 07:00 IBZ 10:15 --- Friday Only ---
BA8461 LCY 12:55 IBZ 16:10 --- Sunday Only ---

BA8462 IBZ 11:00 LCY 12:25 --- Friday Only ---
BA8462 IBZ 16:55 LCY 18:10 --- Sunday Only ---

Flights will be operated by a 98 seater E190SR.


I am guessing that these routes will be returning next summer then...........

Looking towards the Winter schedule.

So far I have noticed that NCE is set to operate 4 x Weekly and BCN 3 x Weekly.

GVA looks like it is set to return in December. With a daily flight Monday to Friday and 2 flights on a Sunday as W09/10.

Has anyone heard if BACF will add any new routes this Winter especially since they will take delivery of another E190 in November.

[spagiola]

Is the last RJ flight still scheduled for this sunday?

[AirLCY]

No it's Friday or Saturday next week now, doing Glasgow and Nice most of the week

[ajamieson]

I notice there are two LCY-EDI flights scheduled within five minutes of each other on Sat July 10, at 0840 and 0845. Is that an error in the GDS or can I book with confidence? Thanks.

[frankdjs]

I think the 2 EDI flights on Saturday morning are movement flights that can be booked. I have booked for the 5th of July without any issue.

[DutchBird-757]

Indeed movement flights. The aircraft need to go to EDI and are open for sale. They just happen to leave within 5 min of each other.

[BAladdy]

Are BACF having problems with their E190's?

It's just that I notice tomorrows

BA8701 EDI-LCY usually operated by a E190 is operating using a E170

BA8721 GLA-LCY usually operated by a E190 is operating using the RJ85

BA8723 GLA-LCY usually operated by a E190 is operating using Bae146 guessing from Titan.

[DutchBird-757]

No problems with the aircraft just no one to operate them. Incredibly tight on crews. Any news on the winter destinations apart from geneva again?

[32SQDN]

Is that due to crew training or not enough pilots?

[dublindispatch]

Any chance of them giving Dublin a go from anywere? I think everyone getting tired of the EI/FR Duopoly to the uk

[Tom the Tenor]

If you are fed up of bmi in Dublin send one a day from LHR to ORK. bmi would be welcomed in Cork with open arms and with the correct timing they would do well with the connections traffic.

[dublindispatch]

Wheres Cork? :)

[DutchBird-757]

Due to crew trainig. Training is running at max capacity.

[spagiola]

Have the RJs all gone now?

[RJ100]

One RJ85 G-LCYB still flying. It'll be flying Sun-Wed on the GLA and NCE rotation. Not sure if it will keep flying further into July. It's crewed until the latter part of July. Depends on demand and at the moment demand for aircraft at BACF is high :)

[cornishsimon]

as bacf seem to be doing quite well at the moment does anyone think that the other 3 EMB190 options could be taken fairly soon ?

[DutchBird-757]

As my personal opinion I would say yes, at least before the end of the year. But again, not based on inside knowledge, just my personal opinion.

[Sweden22]

Does anyone have any info on possible new routes from LCY with BACF.

Cheers

Sweden22

[BAladdy]

Does anyone have any info on possible new routes from LCY with BACF.

There had been rumours that BACF would bring back the LCY/WAW service. However so far nothing has been announced.

BACF operation this Winter, (Info based on ba.com timetable for 3rd-9th January 2011), currently looks like this:

MONDAY to THURSDAY

E170 - AMS/LCY/ZRH/LCY/FRA/LCY/FRA (BA8450/BA8763/BA8764/ BA8734/BA8735/BA8736)
E170 - FRA/LCY/FRA/LCY/EDI/LCY/ZRH (BA8731/BA8732/BA8733/BA8716/BA8707/BA8769)
E170 - ZRH/LCY/EDI/LCY/ZRH/LCY/AMS (BA8760/BA8702/BA8715/BA8455/BA8465/ BA8457)
E170 - MAD/LCYMAD/LCY/MAD (BA8752/BA8753/BA8754/BA8755)

E190 - LCY/EDI/LCY/ZRH/LCY/EDI (BA8700/BA8703/BA8765/BA8766/BA8708)
E190 - EDI/LCY/AMS/LCY/AMS/LCY/EDI/LCY (BA8701/BA8451/BA8452/BA8453/BA8454BA8712/BA8717)
E190 - EDI/LCY/GVA/LCYEDI/LCY/ GLA (BA8711/BA8743/BA8744/BA8706/BA8705/BA8730)
E190 - GLA/LCY/GLA/LCY/GLA/LCY/GLA (BA8721/BA8722/BA8725/BA8726/BA8727/BA8728)
E190 - GLA/LCY/NCE/LCY/ZRH/LCY/EDI (BA8723/BA8475/BA8476/BA8767/BA8768/BA8718) * 1

*1 - LCY/NCE/LCY sector Operates Monday and Thursday. Aircraft operate LCY/BCN/LCY instead od NCE on a Tuesday. On Wednesday flight arrives from GLA at 09:25 and does not depart for ZRH until 15:50

FRIDAY

E170 - AMS/LCY/ZRH/LCY/FRA/LCY/FRA (BA8450/BA8763/BA8764/ BA8734/BA8735/BA8736)
E170 - FRA/LCY/EDI/LCY/ZRH (/BA8733/BA8716/BA8707/BA8769)
E170 - ZRH/LCY/EDI/LCY/ZRH/LCY/AMS (BA8760/BA8702/BA8715/BA8455/BA8465/ BA8457)
E170 - MAD/LCY/MAD (BA8754/BA8755)

E190 - LCY/BCN/LCY/ZRH/LCY/EDI (BA8471/BA8472 /BA8765/BA8766/BA8708)
E190 - EDI/LCY/AMS/LCY/AMS/LCY/EDI/LCY (BA8701/BA8451/BA8452/BA8453/BA8454BA8712/BA8717)
E190 - EDI/LCY/GVA/LCYEDI/LCY/ GLA (BA8711/BA8743/BA8744/BA8706/BA8705/BA8730)
E190 - GLA/LCY/GLA/LCY/GLA (BA8725/BA8726/BA8727/BA8728)
E190 - GLA/LCY/NCE/LCY/ZRH/LCY/EDI (BA8723/BA8475/BA8476/BA8767/BA8768/BA8718)

SATURDAY

E170 - MAD/LCY/EDI (BA8752/BA8707)
E170 - ZRH/LCY (BA8760)
E190 - LCY/ZRH/LCY (BA8761/BA8762)
E190 - EDI/LCY/EDI (BA8703/BA8702)

SUNDAY

E170 - LCY/NCE/LCY/ZRH (BA8745/BA8746/BA8769/BA8760)
E170 - EDI/LCY/MAD (BA8707/BA8755)
E170 - AMS/LCY/AMS (BA8456/BA8457)
E170 - FRA/LCY/FRA (BA8735/BA8736)
E190 - LCY/GVA/LCY/GVA/LCY (BA8743/BA8744/BA8745/BA8746)
E190 - EDI/LCY/BCN/LCY/EDI (BA8701/BA8471/BA8472/BA8718)
E190 - GLA/LCY/ZRH/LCY/GLA (BA8727/BA8767/BA8768/BA8728)
E190 - EDI/LCY/EDI/LCY/EDI (BA8703/BA8712/BA8717/BA8708)
E190 - GLA/ LCY/GLA (BA8729/BA8730)

At the moment it looks as if BACF plan to use all 5 E190's (G-LCYN due in service 22NOV10). However they are only using 4 of there 6 E170's.

Back when BACF announced that they were replacing there fleet of RJ85/RJ100 with E170/E190's they said that expected improved performace of the E-Jets compared to the RJ's would mean that there would be no need for one aircraft to be used as a stby aircraft. If that is true I would expect BACF to announce either new routes (possibly seasonal) or increased frequencies on existing routes.

Do BACF currently have spare slots at LCY for this Winter?

[BAladdy]

All GLA flights on the E190? Must be doing well.

Gaz

The loads on the route have never been great but they have improved year on year. The yields however have always been good. This is because the the majority of pax who travel on the route travel on business and tend to buy flexible or semi flexible tickets. On the GLA/LCY route, during peak travel times it is not unusual for over 90% of pax traveling to have payed more than £350 rtn for there tickets. Demand is much higher for seats on the the first two flights ex GLA and the last two flights ex LCY making the E190 a good choice of aircraft for those flights. The first two flights ex LCY and last two ex GLA would be operated by a E170. BACF struggle to fill half of the seats on these flights and the ones they do fill are usually with pax traveling on the lower priced fares.

I think there would be a huge improvement in loads if the current GLA schedule was altered slightly and a additional afternoon flight from LCY and evening flight from GLA was added. The additional flight at that time of day would make the route instantly more appealing to those pax who want to travel to GLA on business and back in one day.

Having the E190 flying from GLA has enabled BACF to successfully tender to operate charter flights from GLA to AGP, ALC, BCN, FAO and PMI on behalf of a number of tour operators that include Thomson and Barrhead travel this summer.

It already looks as if BACF will in 2011 continue to operate charter services from GLA. According to the first editions of Thomas Cook and Thomson Holidays summer 2011 brochures , BACF will be operating the following charter flight from GLA next summer.

At present, BACF are expected during Summer 2011 to operate on:

Friday's - GLA-PMI-GLA (16MAY11-29JUL11) and GLA-MAH-GLA (06MAY11-21OCT11)

Saturday's - GLA-ALC-GLA (14MAY11-21SEP11)

Sunday's - GLA-AGP-GLA (01MAY11-23OCT11) and GLA-FAO-GLA (01MAY11-31JUL11)

With more expected to be added in late 2010 from GLA and EDI.

[Sweden22]

Thanks for that info..........

[Skipness One Echo]

BA are happy to punt the Glasgow London market out of Heathrow going forward, this was I believe the main reason for the surprise resumption of the historically loss making GLA-LCY.

The frequency of the Shuttle has fallen from a high of 14 daily to the present freqeuncies to allow for more long haul growth at LHR as this is where the money is made. Not wanting to lose long haul feed but keen to lose frequency means BA brought back LCY.

[WHBM]

BA are happy to punt the Glasgow London market out of Heathrow going forward, this was I believe the main reason for the surprise resumption of the historically loss making GLA-LCY.

The frequency of the Shuttle has fallen from a high of 14 daily to the present freqeuncies to allow for more long haul growth at LHR as this is where the money is made. Not wanting to lose long haul feed but keen to lose frequency means BA brought back LCY.
This very interesting graph of pasenger figures on London-Glasgow overall appeared a couple of days ago

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/220716-prestwick-16.html#post5777663

It shows that LCY has done much better from Glasgow under BA than previously (under Scot with Do328s), in an overall declining city-pair market.

[DutchBird-757]

The first two flights ex LCY and last two ex GLA would be operated by a E170. BACF struggle to fill half of the seats on these flights

Well, not entirely true. BOTH ex LCY and GLA, as you mentioned, all left full or with a hand full of spare seats on an E190.

[Sweden22]

I have just been offered a flight attendant training course with BACF at LCY.
Dates are to be confirmed but it looks like mid august, is this due to expansion does anyone know or just internal demand?

Cheers

[marlowe]

internal demand, the charters are soaking up crew causing crewing problems for the scheduled services. The LCY base is probably short of about 6 to 8 crew due to various reasons

[Sweden22]

Cheers Marlowe

[gilbertmchris]

Is there any chance of flight deck recruitment in the next year if the options for more aircraft are taken?

[DutchBird-757]

Quite possible I recon.

[gilbertmchris]

Ideal, if so, do you think there will be a need for direct entry captains? (I'm in no rush)

I dont think I could afford the pay cut to FO and the move to London, but it would be nice to fly into City again, it was my favourite duty for a while before we pulled it.
What's it like flying the 170 in there compared to the RJ?

[Atreyu]

Well LCY is central london so it really depends where you're coming from...

[Atreyu]

gilbertmchris,

I've just converted onto the Embraer and I have to say it makes for an easier operating experience, it's certainly more akin to operating an Airbus or Boeing than how we flew the RJs, although the yoke takes some getting used to! I've heard rumours that we're purchasing options on 3 more 190's and/or replacing the 170's with 190's but as anyone with CF will know these are coming from the usual suspects ;) Does anyone have anything more concrete?

DB-757 your the man with the info! (you can tell me, I was on your course! :P)

Atreyu :ok:

*EDIT*
To actually answer your question, my opinion is we are chronically short of Captains, and if the middle east starts recruiting bigtime there may well be an exodus, although whether management see it that way is another issue, personally I think if we increase our fleet size I believe we will see recruitment into LHS and POSSIBLY 2 or 3 RHS posistions and down the back but who actually knows?? Its always a mystery at BACF... :ouch:

[dhc83driver]

Lcy to M25 commute north by m11 is about 25mins on average. Rush hour trying to get over the A13 can be about 45mins. Most duty's finish and start at times that make it a bit easier. Going south is a bit more of a lottery!. you can take the A13 then cross at dartford, or the blackwall tunnel then appropriate route, or take the ferry then the A2. 95% of the time it will be easy but it only takes one problem at the end of the m11 or on the A406 to add 30mins onto the journey.

[gilbertmchris]

Atreyu

Thanks for the reply, I hope you're correct because I am in no rush to leave the nice little company I work for now to join the orange collective or live in the middle east. It sounds like CF would be as friendly as here, it's nice to know the people I fly with and being able to fly with mates etc.

For anyone who knows, do you expect the DEC requirements to change now that you're on the Embraer? I imagine it is a bit more of a step up than the RJ was?

C

[Atreyu]

It's unlikely the DEC requirements will change, I strongly believe the Embraer is in many ways easier to operate than the good old RJ ever was, many of our guys I'm sure will attest to that

Atreyu

[Atreyu]

I know our training was reduced to 10 line training sectors for guys already within BACF, and while it sounds very little, in reality it was more than enough training time to become familiar with the operation of the E-Jet and be safe enough to be let loose on the line! Obviously for DEC or TEP entrants it will be the usual 30 sectors but I can say I found the step up refreshing rather than headache inducing! Can't vouch for the other guys within our company but I've heard no complaints of "not enough training sectors"!!!

I was told the Embraer E-Jet series was designed to be operated by a 2000hour Captain and a 150hour F/O but I can't say whether that is someones imaginings or an actual Embraer statement!! :p

Hope this helps!

Atreyu:ok:

[FlatBroke]

Glad to hear things are going well for you all at BACF these days.

Just wondering what the situation with pilot bases is now. Is Edinburgh still the main base for pilots? Has the opening of LCY as a base cut down on the number of nightstops/tours/variety of destinations for the folks based north of the border?

Still think CityFlyer look like a decent outfit to work for. Fingers crossed for a bit of expansion and recruitment in the not to distant future.

Cheers

[marlowe]

Still plenty of tours,trips and destinations for crew based north of the border and always will be unless BACF changes radically.

[DutchBird-757]

Living north of the border for me means; 13 nightstops a month, loads of sectors, minumum days off, working two weeks of my leave. So yes, very busy.

[Bearpit]

Does anyone know if BACF are likely to be doing more ski flights next winter?

[Atreyu]

Quite likely, they seemed very busy last season.

Atreyu:ok:

[RJ100]

BA Cityflyer operated it's last BAe AVRO RJ85 (G-LCYB) flight into LCY today. The flight arrived around lunch time from Glasgow.
The aircraft was due to fly to Kemble this afternoon. However that could change due to poor weather at Kemble.

So long YB!! :sad:

RJ

[DutchBird-757]

The end of a long era. So long RJ and thanks for many happy moments... :D

[seat 13a]

Built like a tank - but I won't miss the three-quarters window seats...

[Skipness One Echo]

BA's last British built jet airliner retired.

End of an era. Having said that I did fly on G-LCYB and it's not a great loss comfort wise !!!

[DutchBird-757]

There seems to be a new schedueled destination for BACF out of LCY starting 13 Sep. It's double daily and on weekdays only. Operated by an E170. Block time 1:55hr and a nightstopper! The timings are ideal for an office day in London.

A wild guess: Prague. My reasoning is that CSA Czech Airlines are stopping all UK flights in NOV this year and the BA LHR-PRG is also 2hrs block time) :ok:
CSA Czech Airlines To Leave The UK Market — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4864548/)

[cornishsimon]

sounds a good new route for ba ex lcy
:ok:

[cmf146]

RJ100,

Can you confirm please when G-LCYB transited to Kemble.

Many thanks

[DutchBird-757]

14 July as 'Flyer 01P'. And that's where it stays for the rest of the month.

[cmf146]

Thanks Duchbird-757.

'YB is not due to be handed back to the lessor until October 10 and 'YC until November 10, so I guess CFE will still be paying the leasing costs for a few months yet !

[DutchBird-757]

Depends. I've heard that there's a financial bonus (jokes aside) to returning these aircraft early. Whether that's true or not, who knows.

Another interesting comment in this thread:
BA W10/11 Schedule Changes Summary — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4862914/)
A new destination for LCY; Chambery? If so, who's gonna operate that one?

BA's summer 2011 timetible is suggested to be released either this, or next month. (iso DEC) If true, who knows what that brings.

[CabinCrewe]

Hope theyve still got a standby the GLA chartesr last weekend had terrible punctuality- 2 and 3 hrs delays.

[towser]

cmf146; My understanding is that its cheaper to park them up in a field than keep them flying, for one thing you have no maintenance costs to pay and we have all the aircraft we need for the schedule provided nothing goes seriously tech!
DB 757; its my understanding that it's us that will be operating the Chambrey

[BAladdy]

There seems to be a new schedueled destination for BACF out of LCY starting 13 Sep. It's double daily and on weekdays only. Operated by an E170. Block time 1:55hr and a nightstopper! The timings are ideal for an office day in London.

A wild guess: Prague. My reasoning is that CSA Czech Airlines are stopping all UK flights in NOV this year and the BA LHR-PRG is also 2hrs block time)PRG would be a good addition but not sure there is much business traffic on that route. Also with No Sunday service LCY-PRG will not appeal to many leisure pax.

With that type of frequency and the block time stated maybe BACF could be starting flights to TXL, STR or MUC??. All routes that perform well for mainline.

Any word on if or when a official announcement is expected??.

[DutchBird-757]

I see that things have changed and the first service is now on SEP 12th ex LCY. Some more small changes as well. There's now a saturday morning 0515z departure form the destination to LCY and back again departing LCY on the sunday at 1805uk. Similar to the MAD operation. Weekdays still double daily E170.

As you stated BAladdy, it could be something totally different. And they are still tweaking the scheduele. They'll have to announce it quickly otherwise it will appear on the rosters in two weeks. My wild guess is that we'll find out before Farnborough is over. Hopefully, fingers crossed, they'll announce the 3 extra E190's as well. But then again...

[WHBM]

Prague would be a surprising route, there is not a lot of business traffic there, certainly not from LCY's base in the finance industry, but the established carriers there have suffered more than anywhere else in Eastern Europe from the Low Cost Carriers, who have come in from all directions.

Berlin would be a better commercial option, but that has been tried and failed at least twice from LCY (including my first ever LCY flight, Contiflug to Tempelhof). The "new airport" (actually just a new terminal) at Schonefeld opens in 2012 and it would be good to get a toehold in there early. Berlin has of course always been a strong destination for BA, and is surprisingly marginalised by Lufthansa, so a worthwhile consideration.

There actually aren't any likely destinations left across Europe which do not already have a service, or have been tried and failed.

It's a shame the Embraers haven't got the range for Moscow, that would be a sure fire success.

[DutchBird-757]

I'll guess we'll find out shorty. Seeing BA just announce LHR-GOT maybe they'll anncounce this today as well. Anyways, Moscow would only work if they only sold a third of the seats on the outbound and operate it on the E190. And even then it would be problematic.

Anyone heard anything about WAW coming back next year?

[BAladdy]

I see that things have changed and the first service is now on SEP 12th ex LCY. Some more small changes as well. There's now a saturday morning 0515z departure form the destination to LCY and back again departing LCY on the sunday at 1805uk. Similar to the MAD operation. Weekdays still double daily E170.
So the new flight has a block time off 1hr 55 but only gonna operate twice daily. So does that mean that the aircraft looks as if it will be on the ground at the new destanation for much of the day. If thats the case is that not a bit of a waste of money??

[DutchBird-757]

It leaves LCY 0745z, arrives at 0940z.Then returns at 1435z and arrives at LCY 1635z for a 1705z departure to nightstop. Leaving again at 0515z and arriving at 0715z. So yes, there're two gaps; one of 5hrs and one of 11hrs on the ground at destination.

[Cyrano]

It's a shame the Embraers haven't got the range for Moscow, that would be a sure fire success.

I agree entirely with you about the commercial potential, but sadly there's also the small matter of a frequency-restricted UK/Russia bilateral, so if I recall correctly BA would have to give up one Heathrow-Moscow 767 flight for every LCY-Moscow Embraer (or more likely A318).

C.

[airhumberside]

Unless a Russian carrier wanted an extra UK frequency in which case an extra frequency for a UK airline maybe granted - when bmi got both their DME frequencies they got Transaero to add an LHR flight at the same time

[Skipness One Echo]

All irrelevant unless they fit a giant catapult at the 27 threshold though.*BOIIING*.

[BAladdy]

I am suprised that BACF dont make changes to there MAD weekend services during the summer. At the moment there the inbound Saturday flight/aircraft continues to EDI. Returning from EDI on a Sunday night before going on to MAD. The current timetable is less than appealing for those pax who want to go to MAD for a weekend but need to be back in work for 9am Monday. BACF would see booking increase by quite a bit if they operated a flight ex LCY on Saturday back to MAD and operated a round trip ex MAD on a Sunday. i.e

Saturday

BA8752 MAD 07:40 LCY 09:00
BA8753 LCY 09:30 MAD12:45

Sunday

BA8752 MAD 17:00 LCY 18:20
BA8753 LCY 18:50 MAD 22:15

BA's summer 2011 timetible is suggested to be released either this, or next month. (iso DEC) If true, who knows what that brings. Hopefully we will see a return and possibly a frequency increase of IBZ and PMI routes.

It's a shame the Embraers haven't got the range for Moscow, that would be a sure fire success.I have always thought DME would be a success from LCY. They could drop one of the LHR (Mon-Fri) flights and replace with a LCY flight on the all J A318 (Embrear would no way make it).

[AirLCY]

Ibz and pmi already seem to be on sale next summer.

I don't think the 318 would make dme without a stop, even with just 32 seats!

[DutchBird-757]

No surprise to see PMI and IBZ return. Hopefully with a higher frequency.

Regarding the new destination. How about Berlin, as WHBM already mentioned. New airport under construction and a base for Air Berlin.
Just announced; Air Berlin to join Oneworld Alliance. Official announcement in Berlin tomorrow with the CEO's of AA/AB/BA/AY and Oneworld itself present.

Press release here (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/07/26/345347/air-berlin-to-join-oneworld-alliance.html) and Oneworld info (http://www.oneworld.com/ow/news/details?objectID=22473).

[Cyrano]

No surprise to see PMI and IBZ return. Hopefully with a higher frequency.

Regarding the new destination. How about Berlin, as WHBM already mentioned. New airport under construction and a base for Air Berlin.
Just announced; Air Berlin to join Oneworld Alliance. Official announcement in Berlin tomorrow with the CEO's of AA/AB/BA/AY and Oneworld itself present.

Press release here (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/07/26/345347/air-berlin-to-join-oneworld-alliance.html) and Oneworld info (http://www.oneworld.com/ow/news/details?objectID=22473).

The timings of those new BA slots puzzled me because they don't match an LCY-based aircraft, i.e. there's a long ground time at the outstation. But the Air Berlin announcement was an "aha!" moment. If BA were holding the new LCY slots on behalf of AB, everything would make sense, e.g. an Air Berlin Q400 operating Berlin or (more likely) Hamburg or Dusseldorf to LCY twice a day, with a BA codeshare. That's just my mad guess, but let's wait and see...

C.

[DutchBird-757]

But the Air Berlin announcement was an "aha!" moment.

I was thinking the same thing. However, the system definately shows that the flight is operated by an E170 plus with true BA flightnumbers. It does not make sense to have the aircraft sitting idle for 16hrs away from base.

[Atreyu]

DB, any news of more aircraft entering the fleet? You've always got an ear to the ground ;)

And if so any sign of a few more pilots and cabin crew being required? We're at breaking point with what we've got ATM,

Atreyu:zzz:

P.S Heard YF was driven into a blast fence in EDI... Whoopsie!:=

[DutchBird-757]

Haven't read/heard anything yet.

Don't even start about YF. :(

[Atreyu]

Is it serious?

[DutchBird-757]

Any incident is serious however, they should hopefully have it fixed today.

[Nakata77]

Will Cityflyer ever consider expanding from airports such as BOH, CWL, BHX, LPL, etc etc?

[HeliCraig]

Did BA have to give any undertakings to FlyBE when they sold BA Connect which may prevent BACF doing this?

Certainly ba.com lists flights from BHX which are operated by FlyBE as a BA codeshare - can't see FlyBE would be happy about BA poaching back in on those assuming there was such a market.

(I for one would rather fly on an E jet than a Q400 - both good aircraft, just my preference!).

[wanna_be_there]

RE BOH, CWL, BHX, LPL

LPL- Probably not as the only route they could operate would be to LCY, and VLM has abandoned that market (and MAN) due to the such good rail links the North west now has to London. Liverpool/MAN to London city centre is faster by rail than by air now (centre to centre)

BOH- If a low cost based airline such as RYR cant make BOH work that well for them, what do you expect citiflyer to do?

CWL- again, what market would this be for?

BHX- BA seems more than happy with the codeshare agreement it has in place with BE, so I doubt that it will enter BHX, apart from the few charters it is operating this summer.

[DutchBird-757]

I did not see this one coming! So let's end the speculation.

==
New Denmark flights direct from Docklands
British Airways is opening up its route network from London City Airport with the launch of its first route to Scandinavia.

The airline has announced plans to start a new double daily weekday service from the docklands airport to Copenhagen in Denmark, providing a direct air link between the two capital cities.

There will also be one flight a day from London City on Sundays and one flight from Copenhagen on Saturdays.

The new flights will start on September 12, and will be operated by British Airways wholly owned subsidiary BA CityFlyer with their fleet of brand new Embraer 190 aircraft.

Luke Hayhoe, BA CityFlyer commercial manager said: “This has been a year of firsts for us at London City Airport, with new leisure focused flights to the Balearic Islands launched earlier in the year and now our first ever venture into Scandinavia.

“Once again we are responding to demand from our customers for both business and leisure travel to Denmark and we are delighted to be launching another exciting new route using our new aircraft.”

One way fares are available from £65 and are available to book on Book Flights, Hotels, Holidays, Car Rental with British Airways - BA.com (http://www.ba.com).

==

[Skipness One Echo]

New Denmark flights direct from Docklands
British Airways is opening up its route network from London City Airport with the launch of its first route to Scandinavia

Has Billund been moved? We should be told!

Yes I know Sun Air is not technically BA but then neither is CitiFlyer. Dear me, good news though!

[BAladdy]

The airline has announced plans to start a new double daily weekday service from the docklands airport to Copenhagen in Denmark, providing a direct air link between the two capital cities.

There will also be one flight a day from London City on Sundays and one flight from Copenhagen on Saturdays.Interesting addition to the BACF timetable. Notice that there is no Saturday Service scheduled for the W10/11 timetable.

BA8466 CPH 07:15 LCY 08:15 E70 1 2 3 4 5 - -
BA8468 CPH 16:35 LCY 17:35 E70 1 2 3 4 5 - 7


BA8465 LCY 08:45 CPH 11:45 E70 1 2 3 4 5 - -
BA8467 LCY 18:05 CPH 21:00 E70 1 2 3 4 5 - 7

Still think the 5hr gap between flights could be better used. Maybe by extending the BA8465 to operate LCY/CPH/HEL and the BA8468 to operate HEL/CPH/LCY. I am sure that AY would codeshare to add extra CPH/HEL pax. With a flight time of 1hr 40 it would fit perfectly.

It will be interesting to see what QI do about there timetable.

DB 757; its my understanding that it's us that will be operating the Chambrey

Any word on what days and times the CMF flights will operate.

No surprise to see PMI and IBZ return. Hopefully with a higher frequency.


Just noticed that IBZ seems to be on sale until early July 2011. According to ba.com flight will operate:

From 27 March to 24 April : 2 x weekly (Fri & Sun)
From 29 April : 3 x weekly (Mon, Fri & Sun)

No PMI flights available.

[BR944]

Something seems wrong here:

BA8466 CPH 07:15 LCY 08:15 E70 1 2 3 4 5 - -
BA8468 CPH 16:35 LCY 17:35 E70 1 2 3 4 5 - 7

BA8465 LCY 08:45 CPH 11:45 E70 1 2 3 4 5 - -
BA8467 LCY 18:05 CPH 21:00 E70 1 2 3 4 5 - 7

How does the aircraft get to CPH to operate an 07:15 departure on Monday? Also, what happens to Friday's BA8467 LCY-CPH - is it spending the whole weekend in CPH??
Suspect the timetable should read:

BA8466 CPH 07:15 LCY 08:15 E70 1 2 3 4 5 6 -
BA8468 CPH 16:35 LCY 17:35 E70 1 2 3 4 5 -

BA8465 LCY 08:45 CPH 11:45 E70 1 2 3 4 5 - -
BA8467 LCY 18:05 CPH 21:00 E70 1 2 3 4 5 - 7


Also, 'press release' indicates E190 but the timetable shows E70!!!
('nit-picking' I know!!)

[DutchBird-757]

Just to clarify. There WILL be a single (early) saturday CPH-LCY service and the aircraft returns to CPH late on sunday. And yes, it will be an E170.

[cornishsimon]

any news of the PRG route?

[Jamesair]

There was a rumour a month or so ago that BACF were looking at LCY - NCL. Is this route still under consideration? I would have thought that with EZY pulling out of NCL - STN at the end of October, there would be a lot of London bound passengers looking for alternative flights into London.

[WHBM]

I seem to remember that Eastern Airways had a short stab at LCY-Newcastle with a Jetstream in 2006, and it only lasted weeks before low/no bookings led to its demise. So if no luck with a Jetstream, what chance a new Embraer ?

Bizarrely the LCY website still has the press puff about its introduction !

London City Airport : News release (http://www.londoncityairport.com/AboutUs/ViewRelease.aspx?id=945)

[DutchBird-757]

No NCL or PRG unfortunately. But more than happy with CPH.

[Skipness One Echo]

I seem to remember that Eastern Airways had a short stab at LCY-Newcastle with a Jetstream in 2006, and it only lasted weeks before low/no bookings led to its demise. So if no luck with a Jetstream, what chance a new Embraer ?

It ran from early 2006 through the summer season.

If memory serves, the figures failed to add up when the charging for 29 seaters was seen to be too high. A promising route ended at the end of the intial charging period when the new charges were seen to be unworkable. I believe the management was looking to move to larger aircraft and hence more passengers as the field maxed out at peak times.

I think it's good that LCY is gaining CPH on the new ERJ, but I doubt Cimber will hang around to compete aginst them given the better known SAS couldn't make it pay with the monopoly.

[DutchBird-757]

I think it's good that LCY is gaining CPH on the new ERJ, but I doubt Cimber will hang around to compete aginst them given the better known SAS couldn't make it pay with the monopoly.

I never knew SAS did CPH as well. Then I find it a really surprising move. So what's so special about CPH then that BACF can make it work?

[Skipness One Echo]

SAS flew the route with leased RJ70s from Transwede in full SAS colours, then downgraded to an ATR42 leased from Cimber, again in SAS colours. At the end of last summer the route was dropped and immediately picked up by Cimber operating the ATR42 but in their own right this time.

I suspect BA CityFlyer sense a chance to poach the market that the competition has built up but couldn't make pay.

[seat 13a]

Last flight to EDI often late - but tonight more than two hours.....!
Love the E-jets, but not if that becomes the norm...
Any reason,please?...

[AirLCY]

I heard from a friend at lcy that some of the aircraft have had damage this week, so some delays! Hope they sort it soon, I'm off to IBZ soon!

[BAladdy]

Notice there was an additional flight ex LCY tonight to EDI

BA8714 dep LCY at 17:50 and arrived 19:20. The weird thing was operated by a D328

Is this a one off??

Last flight to EDI often late - but tonight more than two hours.....!
Love the E-jets, but not if that becomes the norm...
Any reason,please?...

I thought that the inbound BA8768 from ZRH operated the last flight to EDI.
That landed at 20:12.

Don't know if it is related but BA8700 the 07:00 ex LCY was cancelled this morning. Return sector ex EDI operated, using a Bae146, I guess from Titan?. The same aircraft operated BA8765/6 LCY-ZRH-LCY.

It looks as if they have had a tech 190 today are playing catch up.

[DutchBird-757]

Big shuffle the past couple of days as they're one E190 down plus an E170 was damaged last sunday and tech for a few days.

Two aircraft down and playing catch-up...throw in a big slot here and there... :suspect:

[BAladdy]

Big shuffle the past couple of days as they're one E190 down plus an E170 was damaged last sunday and tech for a few days.

Two aircraft down and playing catch-up...throw in a big slot here and there...

I was suprised when BACF pushed back delivery date of there last E190 to Nov.

I guess with it being the height of the season BACF need the E190's for routes such as BCN, PMI and IBZ and the GLA charters on Friday, Saturday and Sunday

I take it the Titan BAe146's don't have the range to operate to PMI ex LCY. Hence the 2 hour delay. With a delay like that and two aircraft down in a small fleet it easy to see where the delays come from.

I notice BACF are down to operate even more charter flights next summer from GLA and EDI. Think they better firm up those 3 aircraft options they have and soon .

[DutchBird-757]

I was suprised when BACF pushed back delivery date of there last E190 to Nov.

I guess with it being the height of the season BACF need the E190's for routes such as BCN, PMI and IBZ and the GLA charters on Friday, Saturday and Sunday

I notice BACF are down to operate even more charter flights next summer from GLA and EDI. Think they better firm up those 3 aircraft options they have and soon .

Something I don't understand either. The E190 is performance wise in a different league for those longer routes. It would be a welcome addition!

What have you read/heard about next years GLA/EDI charters?

[WHBM]

How much to buy an Embraer 190 ? About £30-35m I guess. How much for an RJ ? Probably less than £5m. That's why you could have spare aircraft in the old fleet (and even then have to fall back on Titan sometimes). But not now.

[BAladdy]

Thomas Cook are seeling holidays with flights operated by British Airways:


Saturday - EDI-IBZ. Flight operating a W pattern. EDI-IBZ-NCL-IBZ-EDI

Sunday - EDI-PMI-EDI.

Since the 1st Edition S11 brochure was published I have read on a local EDI site that BACF will also operate a Saturday EDI-PMI-EDI and a Saturday EDI-MAH-EDI which are currently shown as being operated by BE.

Thomson S11 timetable shows BA flights operating ex GLA

Friday to PMI, MAH,

Saturday to ALC

Sunday to FAO , AGP

Barrhead travel are also in talks to increase there flights ex GLA in 2011. They will also add flights to PMI and AGP from ABZ.

The ABZ flights are expected to be operated as a W pattern:

GLA-PMI-ABZ-PMI-GLA
GLA-AGP-ABZ-AGP-GLA

[seat 13a]

Impressive recovery by BACF ops tonight - found a crew, borrowed a 190 for EDI and flew us home at least an hour earlier than the expected delay.
Well done - tho that 190 will probably be in the wrong place tomorrow...

[BAladdy]

Impressive recovery by BACF ops tonight
Not sure this mornings IBZ pax were as impressed. The 07:00 IBZ departure finally left 09:25.

Also looks as if there are some probs with the aircraft that op in from MAD this morning. Inbound was ontime. Outbound was due to depart 09:35, now showing estimated 12:10.

[32SQDN]

Surely BACF should not experiencing tech issues with the new E-jets. Or are these just initial teething problems?

[cornishsimon]

either way lets just hope that BA take the options on the E jets currently held, both for further expansion but also to that they can have a spare!
cs

[seat 13a]

Sorry to hear the weekenders were delayed...
However, ops clearly not forgetting that the commuters are big revenue earners winter and summer...

That said, we clearly need a few more E-jets.

[towser]

32SQDN; The problems I guess you could call teething however they , at the moment, seem to be consistent across the 190's. Both the 190 sat in LCY all day that was meant to do the IBZ and the 190 that actually went to IBZ had a similar problem. It only grounded the first one though. I guess you can just be unlucky , I as yet have not had a major tech delay.

The Madrid didn't have a tech problem it was pinched to operate a different service.

[gilbertmchris]

The next 190 that is coming in November (Jethros)... is that already crewed?

C

[WHBM]

Both the 190 sat in LCY all day.
Noticed a significant number of raised engine cowls on the Embraer fleet on the LCY ramp on Saturday afternoon, a lot of "heads in engines", and plenty of Ground Support Equipment around, at a time when the apron is normally dead, of course.

All the good old CityJet fleet just sat alongside sunning themselves unattended in the sunshine while this was going on. What was that about reduced maintenance requirements on the new fleet ?

[towser]

I think they mean't reduced ROUTINE maintenance!

[AirLCY]

Cityflyer do A checks on the ramp, the good old rjs needed double the time and a hanger, maybe that's why? Where do cityjet do checks, Dub?

[picton]

Whats the general mood at BACF, is there going to be a big exodus to the sand pit ?

[DutchBird-757]

Why would there be a big exodus to the sand pit? Every company has got it's pro's and con's. Cptns have either specifically chosen not to go down that route, don't feel like (also) turning their families life upside down, are locals through and through or are new in the seat. And f/o's are gaining quality experience and might be looking at a command 'soon' with a good airline and a good type on their license.

[BAladdy]

Its just over 10 weeks to the start of the W10/11 timetable. Does anyone know if the timetable on BA.com is the final schedule or is there some ammendments on the way??

If it is correct then BACF will have a spare E190 on a Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. With the a/c only operating LCY/BCN/LCY on a Tuesday. Also there seems to be a E170 on a Tuesday and Wednesday that arr from GLA at 09:25 and doesnt leave LCY until early evening.....

According to the timetable on BA.COM have noticed the following additional changes:

LCY-CPH

From start of W10/11 there will be no Saturday CPH-LCY sector. The W10/11 shows a CPH/LCY/CPH flight on a Sunday .

LCY-GLA

On Thursdays only there seems to be a new 19:55 flight ex GLA
On Fridays only two flights ex GLA departing GLA 07:55 and 16:15 showing.

LCY-EDI

Some strange flight departures.

Monday to Friday there seems to be 14:50 and 15:15 dep from LCY. Is there the demand for these two flights so close together. Could understand if they where later in the afternoon. Say from 16:30 to 18:00. The flights return from EDI at 16:40 and 17:00 with the next and last flight 18:50. Would make more sense to have the 17:00 depart at 17:45.

[Monde]

Errrr. Maybe cos the pay (for a jet) is cr@p and people are fed up being away for about 15 nights a month??

[UFGBOY]

It is a touring airline at the end of the day....

[gilbertmchris]

Are many of the FOs close to command time?

If some people do start to leave (whatever the reason) would there be sufficient experience to fill LHS slots or would DEC again be required?

(or indeed if the other 3 options are taken soon)

C

[DutchBird-757]

I would say there would be sufficient people to fill the lhs when the time comes. In 6 to 12 months especially you'll end up with quite a number ready (just purely looking at hours) for command.

There might be a reason for the downtime for those two jets...

Strange that there is no Saturday CPH-LCY flight on there. I just had a look and we still show a saturday cpl-lcy service.

[Mister Geezer]

Errrr. Maybe cos the pay (for a jet) is cr@p and people are fed up being away for about 15 nights a month??

The salary might not be great and there might be many night stops, yet not many Middle Eastern operators will give a narrowbody Airbus DEC to a skipper off an RJ/E-Jet, when there will be people out there that do have Boeing/Airbus time on type.

If the above is the case then you will probably earn the same as an F/O in the sandpit but go to the bottom of the seniority list and wait for another command. Not really worth it when viewed in that context! Also being away 15 nights from home is better than only getting home when you are on leave as is the case in the ex-pat world.

[Atreyu]

"Also being away 15 nights from home is better than only getting home when you are on leave as is the case in the ex-pat world."

Comparing apples with oranges I see...

I think there will be an exodus, heard along the vine that several F/Os (into double figures) have requested copies of their training files, doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that one out. Fact is there is more money, better Ts and Cs and a better type rating out in the middle east, so it's obviously going to lure people in.

Atreyu:ok:

[gilbertmchris]

Good good, for all those who are not happy at CF there are many people who would love your job...

I would love to fly an Embraer, get to live in London and do a touring roster... the sandpit has no appeal to me at all but each to his own.

Bring on the new aircraft and the exodus: is it just FOs rumoured to be considering an exit?

C

[Atreyu]

Seems to me both seats are actively looking outside CF, We've heard nothing about more aircraft I'm afraid, thinking about it, they delayed G-LCYN until November, if you needed more aircraft why would you delay the final delivery?

[DutchBird-757]

Last E190 delayed to get c/n700. Further news is that Iberia will start codesharing on the MAD and BCN flights.

[Brian_W]

the Sunday inbound Cityflyer E190 from Palma is becoming a frequent visitor between 22:00 and 22:30 into LCY - looks like its just going to get in before the 22:30 close again tonight !

[DutchBird-757]

Unfortunately it's just the way the scheduele is that day. Part of the final delay initially occured on the very early GLA-AGP charter and it sort of grew worse thereafter. It got in 10 minutes before airport closure. Only almost 2 1/2hrs late... :sad:

[Mister Geezer]

"Also being away 15 nights from home is better than only getting home when you are on leave as is the case in the ex-pat world."

Comparing apples with oranges I see...

It is only apples and oranges if one is willing to view their relocation in the context of it being long term.

[WHBM]

Unfortunately it's just the way the schedule is that day. Part of the final delay initially occured on the very early GLA-AGP charter and it sort of grew worse thereafter. It got in 10 minutes before airport closure. Only almost 2 1/2hrs late...
At the present time, two round trips through Spanish airspace, domestic sectors as well, and ending the day into a rigidly curfewed airport is rather chancing it.

[jubilee]

My daughter was on the above flight,and although delayed,once she left the plane it took about 15min. to go through passport and pick her bag up and be outside.
So full marks to the ground crew at LCY.
Jubilee

[WHBM]

it took about 15min. to go through passport and pick her bag up and be outside.
So full marks to the ground crew at LCY.
That's actually quite a long time at LCY :)

I have done aircraft steps at Gate 2 to hand on a taxi door outside in less than 60 seconds (I actually stopwatched it). Admittedly that was domestic, so no immigration, and hand baggage only, but I do quite often walk with hardly a stop past the immigration team (who compared to elsewhere are not only more efficient but actually pleasant with it as well - what a refreshing change), pick up a bag, and be out in just a few minutes.

On one occasion I was travelling in parallel with a colleague from Munich, I saw him taxi out for Heathrow, eventually we departed for LCY, I phoned him from the aircraft right on engine shutdown on stand at LCY, he was in the immigration queue at Heathrow, I called him again later from the taxi speeding away from LCY, he was STILL in the immigration queue at Heathrow.

[jubilee]

WHBM.

Just to update my previous post,what my daughter said, was, that she was out in less than 15 minutes,more like 10.
jubilee

[DutchBird-757]

As expected;

LCY to Chambery with an E190 starting four times a week from 18th December until the end of March 2011.(MON/FRI/SAT/SUN)

Also LCY to GVA as per normal winter scheduele starting on 19th December with an E190 daily except SAT and double on SUN.

Expect more to follow...:ok:

[Atreyu]

More routes?! Who's going to fly them? We're short of numbers as it is :(

Atreyu