BA Cityflyer

[32SQDN]

What's the situation with crewing for these additional schedules and a/c? Reading further back in this thread it talked about flight crew giving notice to leave the airline. Are they still training pilots at FTE?

[ELondonPax]

The EDI-IBZ flights are loaded in Amadeus as A320. Basource also says it's A320. So mainline rather than Cityflyer?

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

Good plan if you ask me, as it will make use of an aircraft that would otherwise sit idle on the ground overnight.

I wonder if we might see the same or similar ex GLA ?


cs

It's been tried before, back in the days of the Trident, and out of GLA. The problem always was monumental slot delays at PMI/IBZ and the aircraft returning too late to make the schedule for its first shuttle of the morning.

If the slot situation has not improved, then I fear that yet another lesson will have to be re-learned.

"Palma Sequence, Speedbird XXX, why am I number forty-three for start?"
"Cause there's forty-two ahead of you mate" ... bored unidentified voice, not Palma Sequence.

[GayFriendly]

BA LHR Eurofleet crew doing night flights, that'll be the day! ;)

Seeing as LGW crew are currently being trained up on the Airbus bet it will be them crewing this flight. In an ideal world the roster would be to operate LGW - EDI - IBZ - layover day then IBZ - EDI - LGW.........what a trip that would be in all senses of the word!

[Off Stand]

Or Mixed Fleet operating LHR-IBZ-EDI?

[High Energy]

As far as I know it will be LGW crew with an A320.

[BHD2BFS]

Any chances of BACF making an appearance at BHD?
BA seem to dominate the LHR route, when i fly with them now compared to BMI their flights seem more full
With the amount of traffic to London each day from Northern Ireland and lots of business men, I would have that London City was a no brainer?

[BCALBOY]

BA systems are showing A320 , so doesn't look like BACF.

Current timings and aircraft types loaded ,would indicate it isn't the LGW nightstop as it arrives too late to op to IBZ @ 2235hrs ,also certainly on some dates the LGW a/c is an A319 not an A320 which is on the IBZ.

There are 3nightstops from LHR the earliest of which gives a good turnaround time to the IBZ dep, and it is also an A320.

It looks like its LHR crew,presumably mixed fleet .
I do however doubt this will involve crews laying over in Ibz.
The same crew would op EDI/IBZ/EDI having either operated or positioned LHREDI the previous day and returning the day after the IBZ rotation.

[Skipness One Echo]

Could it not be a LGW crew on the LHR aircraft? That would kill two birds with one stone.

[Habana2118]

Likely to be Eurofleet then, mixed fleet do v little short haul and EDI is defo not one of their routes

[aeulad]

We won't have the manpower to take on the EDI route, unlikely to be Mixed Fleet. I would think Eurofleet.

Can be done

Day 1
LHR-XXX-LHR-EDI
Nightstop

Day 2 into 3
EDI-IBZ-EDI
Nightstop

Day 4
Early EDI-LHR-XXX-LHR

Kind regards

aeulad

[towser]

I can tell you that at the moment it is definitely not Cityflyer operating these flights.

[goerring]

BA said the move was to make use of underutilized aircraft and crew, but while admitting it was a change of strategy, downplayed the possibility of developing a wider European route network from Scotland. The Scotsman.

Underutilized ? Do they mean asleep, on Minimum rest ?

[indie cent]

Interesting development....

I guess it could be possible to speculate that this could be a union busting move...

With BACF waiting in the wings on a low-cost-base (mixed fleet accepted)...

Wearing a business head, BA are clearly looking to drag airbus short-haul into profitability.

Perhaps there will be no resistance, if there is... See above. And IAG also have Vueling....

Just saying, as EDI is also the only non-London BA crew base...

Some smart moves taking place (it seems) from BA management.

ic

[cornishsimon]

I think that the crew bases in Scotland closed several years ago ?

Suggestion on other sites is that this will be London based night stopping crew covering this service.


cs

[Skipness One Echo]

is also the only non-London BA crew base...
It's a BA CityFlyer base I think, the mainline bases are long gone sadly.

[towser]

EDI is a Cityflyer base but not a mainline one.

[EK77WNCL]

I was wondering, with passenger numbers on NCL-LHR dropping (sorry OT, just background), what would be the viability of perhaps replacing 1/2 of the NCL-LHR flights with 2/3 daily NCL-LCY flights to cater for the majority of O&D traffic and leave the LHR ones to cater for people travelling onwards.

See schedule here: (adfd2988d264b755873f36be59611749.png (http://gyazo.com/adfd2988d264b755873f36be59611749))

Perhaps, if BA1336/7 was to be cancelled, BA1321 was to be rescheduled to the 08:15 slot and made 3 weekly (Wed, Fri, Sun) Thus also reducing BA1338 to 3 weekly night stopper and a few other changes made, i.e cancelling a few of the slightly "anomalous" then would there be potential? Say 15 weekly?

Mon, Wed x3 daily
Tues, Thurs, Fri, Sun x2 daily
Sat x1 daily

So that would equate to a loss of 12 weekly A32x's to LHR and a gain of 15 E170's from LCY (maybe E190's or even the Saab on some flights?). Capacity decrease, frequency increase, just what the businessmen want.

[Skipness One Echo]

I was wondering, with passenger numbers on NCL-LHR dropping
Can you quantify the drop? What's the % drop rolling 12 months?
Your three weekly idea causes a nightmare around slot usage at the LHR end. LCY becomes an attractive option if numbers are too many for LHR not too few.

If we're being honest you're really asking as a spotter for LCY-NCL? Not likely given the last time when Eastern had a go, and if BA's London traffic is falling out of NCL, they need to keep it all via LHR to make the connection / P2P balance in kilter.

[EK77WNCL]

Tiny bit spotter yeah but I also know a couple of people who travel to london with work quite a lot and the last 3 times my mam was down she's been in the vicinity of LCY, and flights have been cheaper than the train, but they always go for the train because of the trek into London.

I can't quantify the drop but I don't remember the last time they went up and I think BA just got rid of 1 daily flight for Summer 2014 anyway.

After I posted I thought, same principal, could they introduce LCY flights, then rearrange LHR flights around it?

I know Eastern didn't do too well but did they not have terrible schedules? I don't remember them but I'm sure I read an archived a.net thread about dreadful timing, constant delays on their D328, terrible maintenence, high costs, lack of advertising etc etc etc... British Airways is also very very well known at both ends so similar adverts to the anti BA campaigns that East Coast has on the radio for example could work. 30 minute check in at both ends (no baggage) and free fast track at NCL, lounge access, 1 hour flight, 10 minutes plane to kerb at LCY and straight on the DLR into London. Then again what do I know... I just figured there must be somewhere between 304-456 passengers per day NCL-LCY-NCL that this could appeal to... Those E-jets are pretty fuel efficient too...

Cheers for your feedback anyway, I guess it explains why NCL doesn't have a LCY service.

[Skipness One Echo]

Tiny bit spotter yeah
Rhymes with "pants on fire".
The Eastern schedules were pretty business friendly and the aircraft was a Jetstream 41. When the introductory pricing offer from LCY expired the charges went up and losses were too much to bear.
BA need to keep enough of the point to point traffic via LHR to keep the frequency up to keep connections viable to long haul. If traffic falls, any dilution of that point to point traffic (to a new LCY service) may impact numbers and further reduce frequency and make connections less attractive.

Careful what you wish for.

[SWBKCB]

Eastern did originally use a leased Do328 on LCY, and there were reliability issues. However LCY is pretty niche and Eastern survive on niche, so doubt whether advertising/awareness was the issue.

However NCL-LHR pax dropping? Any evidence for this? There are constant small fluctuations up and down month on month and BA are always tailoring the flight schedule in terms of number of flights and a/c size - the odd rotation being added or removed throughout the year means nothing.

[GrahamK]

I believe that the NCL-LHR route is actually showing an overall increase year on year, with loads regularly over 90%.

Now, how many of those are transferring to other flights, I suspect only BA will know the answer.

[U2KK26L]

BA still haven't released the IOM-LCY updated schedule from S14 onwards. It is still showing as one flight a day when they announced the service was back to three daily a month ago. I would of thought they would of got this in the booking engine fairly quickly, not long till the end of MAR14 now!

[Tonyq]

You only have the word of a local shopkeeper that this is going to happen. Nothing official from BA, as far as I am aware. That will be why it's not available to book yet. :)

BTW, I think you probably meant to say, "I would have thought......." That's the end of today's English lesson! :ok:

[AirLCY]

I saw the official announcement on BBC website, it said something like full details in coming weeks, so I guess in the new year?

[Tonyq]

No, I think what you saw was this:-

BBC News - British Airways confirms Isle of Man-London service (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-25355033)

It is just the BBC repeating what the spokesperson for IOMG said. I am pretty sure that nothing has been released on behalf of BA, which is why you can't book the flights.

I'm not saying it isn't going to happen, just that the operator hasn't confirmed the details yet.

[RJ100]

LCY-IOM Will increase to 3 a day. BACF are just waiting to finalise the schedule before releasing flight details. The flights are due to increase from March.

RJ.

[mathers_wales_uk]

Two in May and the other in Sep according to Jethro's

[towser]

September delivery might be brought forward.

[JonnyH]

with passenger numbers dropping on NCL-LHR

Seriously? Everytime I have travelled down it's been fairly busy. The early morning flight is almost always full.

[Jamesair]

Also to add to the mix.....LHR - NCL is always one of the first flights to be cancelled if there are any problems at LHR...if Dec is the evidence of falling pax numbers, I'm sure there were a few cancelled flights during that month.

[JonnyH]

I think you'll find that NCL-LHR is one of the first cancelled flights with a lot of other domestic flights...

Reduced take off slots at LHR due to disruption naturally means they're gonna cancel domestic/short haul routes before the long haul routes for obvious reasons.

Just because a route gets cancelled often in disruption it doesn't mean it's not a profitable or popular route! There's a lot more reasons, anyways, especially financially.

[BAladdy]

LCY-IOM Will increase to 3 a day. BACF are just waiting to finalise the schedule before releasing flight details. The flights are due to increase from March.

I see the flights are to be operated by a second leased S2000 from T3.

[j41cac]

Why do they choose T3, the saabs are constantly going tech and look awful in the cabin. I suppose there aren't many regional operators left with aircraft to fly into LCY

[BAladdy]

Why do they choose T3, the saabs are constantly going tech and look awful in the cabin. I suppose there aren't many regional operators left with aircraft to fly into LCY

I was suprised to see that BACF are planning to use the S20 on the IOM route. Didn't BACF reduce the frequency from 3 to 1 x daily due to poor yields and loads?.

Have BACF had many problems with G-CDEB going tech since it began operating on the LCY-DUS route?.

[j41cac]

Micro gaming have underwritten it for the IOM route with BA as they say it's a vital link.

I dont know about the DUS route but it was constantly tech out of the Rock last summer and aircraft swaps galore.

[Skipness One Echo]

Didn't BACF reduce the frequency from 3 to 1 x daily due to poor yields and loads?.
The game changer was when flybe announced they were dropping IOM-LGW.

[j41cac]

http://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/microgaming-underwrites-ba-london-city-route/

Let's hope people use it

[sarnold]

Apparently it's only on a five month lease from Eastern.

If the route fails to make the returns that BA need, it can be easily repainted back into Eastern colours if returned.

[manx crab]

Looking at the fares they are charging and the sharp reduction in capacity to London from the IOM it should be a real moneyspinner

[jijpc]

Been on the IOM-LCY service twice in the last 10 days and both times it was full.

[Jet Set Willie]

SAAB is on a 5 month lease as BACF have stated that the Rotterdam will be going to an EJet in September. IOM will hopefully do well and would be nice to see that return to a jet at some point as well.

[Tonyq]

Eastern Saab on only a 5 month lease, but BA selling IOM-LCY to end October, and beyond.

BE appear to have LCY slots secured for this (and other routes) from early September.

Discuss :ok:

[Skipness One Echo]

CFE have three more airframes due for LCY, I imagine at least one would allow IOM to return to a ER7 operation?

[Jet Set Willie]

Eastern Saab on only a 5 month lease, but BA selling IOM-LCY to end October, and beyond.

BE appear to have LCY slots secured for this (and other routes) from early September.

Discuss


As stated, the 2nd Saab is a 5 month lease for the RTM. The long term Saab wet lease is for the IOM for the foreseeable future.

[cornishsimon]

BA have today announced 5 daily DUB-LCY with a mix of E70/90


cs

[EK77WNCL]

Oh dear, this can't end well, yes there is a lot of demand but I can see a complete bloodbath taking place here, how about EI throw in a few daily too :/

[stab3.5up]

Any chance of BHD. Anythings better than flymaybe

[wallp]

Will that make 3 carriers to Dublin ? I can only see one winner - BA

[virginblue]

Guess they are out to have Cityjet as lunch (RTM, DUB). And once that is done, then probably flybe@LCY as dessert.

[indie cent]

They are slowly getting a very attractive product together, along with a cost base that Citiflyer could only dream of.

Wow! Slow product development and that latter assumption.

Good luck.

[EI-BUD]

Dublin London City had total pax of 14K in April this year as an example.

We saw Cityjet and Aer Lingus/ JEA fight the toss on this route years ago ... Cityjet withdrew until the other two lost interest and then returned..

Re the comments about Cityflyer having lower cost base , in this instance I'd suggest it's not a big issue . BA has a brand image people will pay a premium for, coupled with its exec club it will emerge as winner. More over let's not forget BA is in it to win it so to speak , they are not sitting back and allowing BE to come in and cannibalise it's operation . BA will see this as a strategic investment and see off the competition - deep pockets, what the others don't have.

I'd call this a huge statement of intent by BA re their LCY operation ..

[Wingman1000]

Do anybody know where the aircraft is coming from to operate the new route? The recently 3 added aircraft are/will be already operational (aircraft change on DUS, aircraft change on RTM and increase on other existing routes like EDI and AMS).

[BA318]

ARN is being dropped so that should free up some space for DUB.

[Nextprop]

It is however not unfair to assume that Flybe will have a significant cost advantage in operating the routes on the basis of equipment choice alone.

[Flightrider]

The BA Exec Club strength at LCY, and the fact that their schedules are much more business-centric, means they will simply end up wiping out this madcap scheme by Flybe.

Flybe are using one aircraft on each route to provide four roundtrips a day. That means only 25% of their capacity will be peak morning into LCY and peak evening out of LCY. If you look at the BACF schedules on any route like EDI, DUB etc, they are heavily biased towards morning capacity into LCY and evening capacity out - probably 55-60% of their daily seat capacity. Unless Flybe suddenly can create a new market for off-peak travel to LCY on those routes, with a cost-base to match, I'm strongly of the view that their incursion to LCY isn't going to work.

[EI-BUD]

Hi WingoWango

Of course you are totally correct, cost base is very important and my point is in this instance it is not as important as usual.

I've equally no particular bias by airline , I'd be disappointed if Cityjet slipped away... It's been in Ireland a long time and been through the best and worst of times since it came about in 1994.

Equally aside from cost base and who has or hadn't got deep pockets, the shareholders in any company won't want to see cash being used to destroy the competition, but in BA's case this will be a long term investment , my prediction is that BA will be the sole operator in time... Cityjet will exit first and BE will lag behind and wait, not wanting to do a U turn on its big plan for LCY. We will see in my view, that LCY turns out to be as inefficient as LGW from a cost perspective for BE. And with lots of competition too ...

[Wingman1000]

It seems Stockholm will be suspended to free up the aircraft.

[stab3.5up]

If bcaf also launch BHD flights BE aredead before

[elle may clampit]

Indeed. That really would be freaky. One thing for BA to square up on lcy from dub and edi where there is long history of financial traffic to prove routes into Lcy work. Another thing completely to crowd BHD lcy which BE have already tried about 3 times in different incarnations and are yet to find any evidence of a market for! :hmm:

[BAladdy]

BACF Have also announced the following changes to there W14 schedule


ABZ - Route Suspended from 26OCT14
ARN - Route Suspended from 26OCT14
EDI - Will increase to up to 11 x Daily
GLA - Will increase to up to 8 x Daily
GRX - Will operate a reduced Schedule
PMI - Will operate a reduced Schedule
VCE - Route becomes Summer Seasonal will not operate W14. Resumes March 2015

[stab3.5up]

Would BCAF not have the advantage from BHD-LCY of transfer pax around Europe that BE would not have. Epeciially with UA stopping EWR-BFS could they not pic upsome c class businessto the JFK?

[rutankrd]

Would BCAF not have the advantage from BHD-LCY of transfer pax around Europe that BE would not have. Epeciially with UA stopping EWR-BFS could they not pic upsome c class businessto the JFK?

Yeah brilliant £4000 to go Belfast-London City- Shannon-JFK seriously who would ?

Yes BACF could offer some connections into Europe over City if they wanted.

Problem is flights from Belfast are not providing the yields they once did and frankly EZY, Flybe and Aer Lingus have market share and BA do fly to LHR you know !

BTW the Dublin - LCY is a spoiler BACF are on a mission to kill Cityjet imho only btw

[ABZ-LHR]

My weekend has just been ruined by reading about the LCY-ABZ suspension. :{ Despite my user name, since BACF opened the LCY-ABZ route, most of my flying to Aberdeen has gone via City and it has transformed my weekly commute for the better.

I always thought it was a 'spoiler route' announced quickly after CityJet's plans for flying to Aberdeen were announced. Now CityJet are retrenching BA obviously feel safe to force the passengers back to using Heathrow.

I'd assumed the Aberdeen route was at least holding its own though - whilst not often completely full, I suspect a lot of the tickets are full-fare, though I suppose it is a zero-sum game, with lots of us being cannibalised from the existing Heathrow flights.

At least my user name will be more accurate once more...

[Skipness One Echo]

They are slowly getting a very attractive product together, along with a cost base that Citiflyer could only dream of.
Don't BA CityFlyer pay well below BA Mainline rates?

[4567]

Just wanted to ask during the summer season when BACF have a pretty heavy charter schedule on the weekends in GLA/EDI/ABZ in particular are these
Sunshine sectors such as PMI operated by crew they have based in In these airports?
Seems to be getting much bigger for them as a market year on year!

[CKT789]

There are no more crew bases than normal (LCY and EDI). Crews reposition on the Friday and Saturday to operate the charters so far as I am aware.

[aerocomp]

Is not the ARN route closed down already?

BACF Have also announced the following changes to there W14 schedule


ABZ - Route Suspended from 26OCT14
ARN - Route Suspended from 26OCT14
EDI - Will increase to up to 11 x Daily
GLA - Will increase to up to 8 x Daily
GRX - Will operate a reduced Schedule
PMI - Will operate a reduced Schedule
VCE - Route becomes Summer Seasonal will not operate W14. Resumes March 2015

[chris789]

This doesn't make me feel good about what they offer the consumer in the longer term. Run Flybe and CityJet from City, then charge monopolistic prices or drop the routes.

I really hope this strategy backfires for them. What anti-competitive, consumer-unfriendly behaviour.

[EK77WNCL]

Why don't Cityjet and Flybe play them at their own game, pick up ABZ, ARN, PMI, VCE etc. And anywhere else they know BACF are weak. Flybe would probably do quite well (better than BACF anyway) on leisure routes from LCY... Low cost base and all. Likewise Cityjet could hopefully do quite well on ARN providing they ramp their service up a bit to what it used to be. Then it could be a toss up between them on ABZ.

There is demand there, but maybe a Fokker/146/Dash might be more economical to places like Aberdeen than an E-jet?

[Jet Set Willie]

Nothing to do with being anti competitive, just plain economics I imagine. You want to get the best profit from what asserts you have. People paying for a club seat to Dublin will fetch far greater yield than a discounted economy ticket to Aberdeen surely.

[Skipness One Echo]

Flybe would probably do quite well (better than BACF anyway) on leisure routes from LCY... Low cost base and all.
The sun routes do very well for CFE, they are targetted at high end demographics and AVIOS collectors. BACF are weak Quite the contrary, they have built a very nice little niche on using their aircraft on off peak sun jaunts then getting back en masse to get the banker brigade home in time. Flybe can't offer sun routes with their current ERJ175 / 195 mix as it's not possible to use them out of LCY.

[NOP]

Flybe can't offer sun routes with their current ERJ175 / 195 mix as it's not possible to use them out of LCY.

Any idea how much would it cost per unit to mod them? Saves them sitting idle possibly?

[WHBM]

Any idea how much would it cost per unit to mod them? Saves them sitting idle possibly?
As I understand it, not physically possible. The E175/195 are longer in the fuselage behind the main gear than the near-equivalent E170/190, and this with the flare angle required from the steep approach makes it too close to the runway surface on touchdown. With the experience of the 146 operations over the years at LCY with tailstrike landing incidents (one write-off, one multi-million recovery and repair, and other lesser incidents), you stick with what is achievable.

Embraer knew what they were doing when the did the E170/190 steep approach certification but not the other two models. If you want to operate into LCY, buy the right aircraft in the first place.


Flybe are using one aircraft on each route to provide four roundtrips a day. That means only 25% of their capacity will be peak morning into LCY and peak evening out of LCY.
VLM used to do this on their short-haul routes out of LCY, one aircraft shuttling back and forth four or five times a day. Eventually they came to the realisation that this was unrealistic, and demand at LCY just didn't work like that.

[Cyrano]

Likewise Cityjet could hopefully do quite well on ARN providing they ramp their service up a bit to what it used to be. Then it could be a toss up between them on ABZ.

For a sector as long as LCY-ARN, one of Cityjet's RJ85s (which are relatively slow) has to pretty much rely on the rotation of the earth to get there. I don't think "could hopefully do quite well" is an accurate summary of its prospects. :hmm:

There is demand there, but maybe a Fokker/146/Dash might be more economical to places like Aberdeen than an E-jet?
The only universe in which a 146 (or more accurately an AVRO RJ) would be more economical than an E-jet would be either one in which fuel was essentially free or one in which the aircraft has very very low utilisation (so that the 146/RJ's low capital cost compensates for its high operating costs).

It's a classic fallacy to say "if airline A can reduce its operating costs below airline B, airline A will win". (This is also summarised as "lowest cost wins".) Lowest cost wins, all else being equal. But "all else" includes marketing and distribution power, and that's not equal. By way of example: BA has superb penetration of corporate customers in the UK and of multinational corporates further afield. They can sign up global deals which provide incentives to use BA or BACF short-haul. Despite that, ARN-LCY on modern efficient passenger-friendly aircraft hasn't worked for them. Cityjet is newly independent, at arm's length from any Air France/KLM sales organisation, struggling to even get into all the GDSs, flying elderly, fuel-thirsty, and not particularly comfortable RJ85s, and cutting back on on-board service in a short-sighted attempt to eliminate USPs along with costs. And you think they would do better in the market than BACF...why exactly? :uhoh:

[EK77WNCL]

Yeah, I have a soft spot for London City and all it's airlines, but especially Cityjet (Don't know why... Think I just really enjoyed my flight with them) and I think I'm probably being too generous with regards to their abilities, but that's why I say that they'll need to improve their product back to what it was or better, but I think that they are near the end of the line at London city and unless Flybe can really give it a good go, it'll probably end up with a BACF monopoly on most routes, and frankly, for all they have excellent service (or did in 2009), I don't think they are that reliable, somewhat like Ryanair when it comes to having favourite routes and chopping and changing others. Maybe cityjet's future lies in operations outside of London City, connecting cities throughout Europe? Maybe? Who knows. But I hope they sort something out.

[Omnipresent]

I don't see BACF's behaviour at LCY as anti-competitive.


BA has long been criticised for not being able to compete outside of fortress LHR and running away from competition elsewhere at LGW and in the UK regions.


Granted BA is aided by the corporate customer base at LCY and many of its flyers being tied to their shiny Executive Club cards, but LCY seems a good example of BA having the fleet, cost base, and product to enable it to compete.

[BAladdy]

Does anyone know if the rumours are true that BACF are planning to add a ex Flybe Nordic E170 to the fleet during the summer?

[virginblue]

Why would an LCY-based operation need extra capacity during the summer? :confused:

[towser]

BAladdy, unless it's a wet lease the answer is no as we haven't got the crew to cover it and as far as I'm aware it's not needed.

[32SQDN]

Hearing rumours that quite a number of experienced pilots are planning to leave Cityflyer. Does the company have plans to replace these aircrew if these pilots move on?

[EK77WNCL]

I'm sure they shouldn't have a problem finding more pilots if some are to leave. Flybe has some on offer I think

[Deano777]

EK77WNCL what do you mean Flybe have some on offer? BA Cityflier is not a step upwards. Flybe are not "offering" anything or "offering" anybody. I can't see many leaving Flybe to go and live in London for slightly worse money. If our jets are to go (which there is no indication that they are) then you might see some transfer of crews. At the moment we are short of Embraer pilots so there isn't a surplus with nowhere to go. Any pilots moving off the jet fleet at the moment are going to the Middle East or BA mainline etc, but not Cityflier.

[JBs747]

I'd imagine the job security and faster track into BA may be appealing to some... Flybe hasn't exactly been a smooth ride

[emb-145]

As someone who has worked at both I can assure you BA CityFlyer is far better than Flybe. Certainly a step up in my view

[Deano777]

Yes emb-145 but the point is that it's not always about the company is it. Who would leave Flybe to join cityflier when you get paid slightly less, you have to commute to LCY and on the whole the benefits of working there are not significantly more than what Flybe offers. So to my mind something would have to attract me to them rather than another big player, such as quick Ejet command, losing your job at Flybe, disgruntled in your job at Flybe etc etc. It wouldn't be the natural career progression of alot of pilots at Flybe unless there are underlying reasons to leave.

[emb-145]

Deano777

Quick ejet command - tick
Losing your job - tick
disgruntled at Flybe - where do I start?

[LGWAlan]

Serious question - what's the likelihood of a 190 getting off LCY with a full load of pax AND bags on a hot day in August for a 3h40 sector?

[VickersVicount]

they were never planned to take a full load and there will be a weight restriction

[LGWAlan]

Thx VV if not commercially sensitive do you know what they have been limited to?

[VickersVicount]

...no nothing more except they'll pre plan to be limited both out and inbound. Presumably not a huge amount or it will be hardly worth their while. Expect fares to be disproportionately higher.

[EMB-145LR]

I fly the E175 in the US and we regularly do 1,800+ mile sectors of over five hours. Granted we are launching off a runway nearly twice as long as City, but I would have though that the E170 would be capable of both of these new Greek routes without too many limitations?

[Jet Set Willie]

E190 for both Greek routes showing!!

[LGWAlan]

have already seen fares of over £400 return on both routes.....

they will only go one way - and thats up!

[BAladdy]

Just noticed that BACF's LCY-DUS is showing on BA.com as once again being operated by a T3 S2000 from 30th March to 5th September. Does anyone know if this is correct?. I thought the DUS route was doing quite well.

[BAladdy]

Notice on jethro's fleet listings that T3 S2000 G-CDKA is to be leased to BACF.

Does anyone know if the aircraft is replacing either G-CDEB or G-CERZ already leased to BACF or is this lease in addition to these aircraft. If in addition what route will the aircraft be used to operate.

[jijpc]

From looking at today's movement on Flightradar it appears CDKA might be replacing one of the other S2000s.
CDKA operated LCY-DUS rotations today, CDEB operated the first IOM-LCY rotation but was then replaced by CERZ which had positioned DUS-IOM which resulted in both CDEB and CERZ being at Ronaldsway this morning.

CDKA may of course just be a lease for maintenance cover but I don't know if that is the case.

Hope the above helps.

[BAladdy]

BACF's winter seasonal GVA service will become year round from early september and will operate up to 3 x daily

06th September to 30th October

BA2281 LCY 08:15 GVA 10:50 E70 x7
BA2285 LCY 14:25 GVA 17:00 E70 x6
BA2287 LCY 18:50 GVA 21:25 E70 x6

BA2280 GVA 07:10 LCY 07:45 E70 x7
BA2284 GVA 12:55 LCY 13:30 E70 x6
BA2286 GVA 17:45 LCY 18:20 E70 x6

31st October to 11th December


BA2281 LCY 08:15 GVA 10:50 E70 x67
BA2285 LCY 14:25 GVA 17:00 E70 x6
BA2287 LCY 18:50 GVA 21:25 E70 x6

BA2280 GVA 07:10 LCY 07:45 E70 x7
BA2284 GVA 12:55 LCY 13:30 E70 x67
BA2286 GVA 17:45 LCY 18:20 E70 x6

From 12th December

BA2281 LCY 07:10 GVA 09:45 E90 6
BA2281 LCY 08:15 GVA 10:50 E70 x67
BA2283 LCY 12:40 GVA 15:15 E90 7
BA2285 LCY 14:25 GVA 17:00 E70 x67
BA2285 LCY 17:20 GVA 19:55 E90 7
BA2287 LCY 18:50 GVA 21:25 E70 x6

BA2280 GVA 07:10 LCY 07:45 E70 x7
BA2282 GVA 10:25 LCY 11:00 E90 6
BA2284 GVA 12:55 LCY 13:30 E70 x67
BA2284 GVA 16:00 LCY 16:35 E90 7
BA2286 GVA 17:45 LCY 18:20 E70 x67
BA2286 GVA 20:40 LCY 21:15 E90 7

[Buster the Bear]

Flew on an 146 to Geneva a few years back, so a route resurrected.

[CabinCrewe]

What was purpose of BACF EDI-IOM-MAH routing today? a Newmarket style one off taking advantage of the regular Barrhead Travel EDI charter?

[EMX81L]

Today was the start of the Freedom Travel (IOM Travel Agent) charter series from the IOM. There's 3/4 weeks of MAH, then PMI up to the end of Sept / early Oct.

The series used to be operated by Flybe until the IOM crew base closed. BACF now operate the series on the EMB170.

[32SQDN]

Do Cityflyer have any options on any further Embraers?

[BAladdy]

i think they have 1 option left

[virginblue]

For how long has BACF now employed the services of Eastern Airways? Surprised that they have not opted for replacing the leased aircraft witn another Embraer 170. Is wet-leasing a Saab 2000 indeed cheaper than operating one's own Embraer 170?

[32SQDN]

Cheers for the reply BAladdy. :ok:

[flydog]

Does anyone have any RECENT relevant info on the assessment day, is it just one day or multiple days.

this thread says go to main line thread, but I read for a solid hour and did not find any valid info just whining and bitchin

appreciate any help as only a week to prepare

thanks


Diggidy

[BAladdy]

For how long has BACF now employed the services of Eastern Airways? Surprised that they have not opted for replacing the leased aircraft witn another Embraer 170. Is wet-leasing a Saab 2000 indeed cheaper than operating one's own Embraer 170?

G-CDEB has been leased from T3 for nearly 3 years (Since 24JUN12).

G-CERZ was operated for BACF from 30MAR14 for 14 months and was replaced by G-CDKA on 11MAY15. Both aircraft are expected to operate on the IOM and DUS routes for BACF until at least the start of S16 schedule.

I think they have opted for the S2000 as it has 26 less seats to fill and it is still a very economical aircraft to operate.

[virginblue]

Sure, but Eastern is no charity, they want to make a cut as well.

[BAladdy]

Sure, but Eastern is no charity, they want to make a cut as well.

The only cut they will get is what they are charging BACF to lease the aircraft and crew. If I remember rightly the IOM route is subsidised by a IOM based company. The DUS route must still be profitable for BACF with T3 operating the aircraft otherwise it would have been dropped. Especially when you take into account that BACF have decided to continue leasing the DUS aircraft to free up a E170 to operate the 3 x daily GVA from September.

Personally I am surprised that they haven't handed the DUS and IOM route to Sun-Air to operate. They could operate 4 x daily with a 32 seat D328 on the IOM and DUS route.

[lfc84]

IOM isn't subsidised anymore

[virginblue]

Sun Air does not operate any LCY capable aircraft (any more). They have to lease in the Dornier 328s from a third party which certainly does not help to operate other routes than high yielding BLL profitably.

[VickersVicount]

there are 12 BACF flights in and out of GLA this weekend some of which are Barrhead travel exclusive charters. After the debacle that was the BA Mainline EDI-IBZ failed experiment, if the likes of Barrhead Travel were to take seats on BA as-is you would wonder why a seasonal BACF scheduled flight couldn't be offered, particularly to ie PMI where there are 4 EMB 190 flights alone today along with Milan, Verona, Malaga, Salzburg, Mahon and Ibiza.
Could generate additional income. It's probably the perfect size aircraft (I suspect A319 mainline might just be too big)

[BAladdy]

there are 12 BACF flights in and out of GLA this weekend some of which are Barrhead travel exclusive charters. After the debacle that was the BA Mainline EDI-IBZ failed experiment, if the likes of Barrhead Travel were to take seats on BA as-is you would wonder why a seasonal BACF scheduled flight couldn't be offered, particularly to ie PMI where there are 4 EMB 190 flights alone today along with Milan, Verona, Malaga, Salzburg, Mahon and Ibiza.
Could generate additional income. It's probably the perfect size aircraft (I suspect A319 mainline might just be too big)
Barrhead, Thomson and Thomas Cook are 3 of the operators that BACF operate charter flights on behalf of ex GLA. The tour operator pays for the lease of the aircraft the crew etc. So BACF still makes money even if the aircraft has only a handful of pax on it.

BACF operate a lot of charter flights during the weekend. This summers flying program includes:

ABZ to AGP, PMI and REU
DUB to MAH
EDI to ALC, BCN, IBZ, PMI, MAH and VCE
GLA to ALC, BCN, FAO, IBZ, MAH, PMI, AGP, SZG, VCE and VRN
HUY to ALC, BCN, PMI and VCE
IOM to MAH and PMI

I am sure I may have even left a few destinations out.

Some routes are served with multiple frequencies and depart on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday

BACF also operate winter ski charter flights from EDI to CMF and TLS

[stab3.5up]

Any news on the rumoured BHD flights. I guess it's to knock BE off

[cornishsimon]

Do they have the flexibility in the fleet to add additional weekday destinations without adding Ejet frames to the fleet ?



cs

[BAladdy]

Do they have the flexibility in the fleet to add additional weekday destinations without adding Ejet frames to the fleet ?

I don't think they do. I base this on the fact that BACF have recently said that they will continue to operate a S2000 on the DUS route through W15/16 (was originally planned as E170) to free up a aircraft to operate the new 3 x daily GVA service starting later in the year.

There have been rumours on other sites that they plan to buy another E170 fro AY but this has not been confirmed.

[cornishsimon]

With how the business currently stands both scheduled and charter they could probably utilise another 3-5 E-Jets. This would allow them to ditch eastern and slight expansion.


cs

[BAladdy]

BACF have leased a A320 from Titan today to operate a EDI-PMI-EDI charter. Tomorrow a Titan 757 will operate 2 GLA-PMI-GLA charters tomorrow and a Cello Aviation RJ85 will operate the IOM-PMI and MAH-IOM charter. Details Below:

Titan Airways A320 (G-POWK) operating:

BA4547 EDI 06:15 PMI 10:10 19JUN
BA4548 PMI 11:10 EDI 13:15 19JUN

Titan Airways 757 (G-POWH) operating:

BA4521 GLA 07:30 PMI 11:30 20JUN
BA4522 PMI 12:40 GLA 14:45 20JUN

BA4523 GLA 15:30 PMI 19:30 20JUN
BA4524 PMI 20:15 GLA 22:20 20JUN

Cello Aviation RJ85 (G-LENM) operating:

BA4541 IOM 13:25 IOM 17:15 20JUN
BA4542 MAH 19:25 IOM 21:15 20JUN


Additionally BACF have cancelled one of the 3 PMI charter flights scheduled to operate ex GLA.

BA4533 GLA 07:00 PMI 11:00 20JUN
BA4534 PMI 12:00 GLA 14:05 20JUN

I take it BACF are having a few tech probs with there E-Jets at the moment?.

[withington]

No, I think they have crew problems!

[BAladdy]

No, I think they have crew problems!
Are BACF short of crew today or are they just short of serviceable aircraft?. Just the seems to be quite a few delayed flights and a handful of cancellations today

[32SQDN]

I think most airlines are having crewing issues - or is it particularly bad at Cityflyer?

[BAladdy]

Just noticed that IAG have a E190 showing a future delivery on the last page of IAG's 2Q 2015 report.

IAG - International Airlines Group - Quarterly Reports (http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-reportsother)

This wasn't showing when the same information, which is no longer available online, was published in the 1Q 2015 results. I am guessing this is destined for BACF. I wonder if the other 15 E190 options that IAG have will be converted to orders over the next few years, or maybe converted into orders for E-JET E2 aircraft

[cornishsimon]

I suspect they need to do something order wise soon.

I also suspect that we might see a rise in BA LCY-DUB flying now with EI codeshares.


cs

[32SQDN]

But if they are having crewing problems surely that is the priority, not orders for more a/c?

[cornishsimon]

Yeap. But aircraft will take a year at least from order to delivery, plenty of time to sort out staffing.


cs

[BAladdy]

Notice that LCY-MAH is no longer showing as operating during S16. Flight currently operates 2 x weekly.

Thought the loads were quite good for this service.

[SaintElmo]

Hey guys,

Saw the ad for the intake by CTC. Would anyone be so kind to explain how it works? I have 3K hours as an FO in an airline, but not rated on the EJet. Do i have to pay for my own training? Whats the average take-home salary for a month/year? Hows the tests/interview like? What are the air ticket benefits like?

Thanks

[32SQDN]

Probably not the best thread for this question. Try here:

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/545900-ba-city-flyer-opens-recruitment.html

[BAladdy]

According to the site Jethro's Fleet listings. BACF have leased a 82 seat AR8 from Cello Aviation from 17SEP-17OCT

BA Cityflyer Fleet List (http://www.jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/ba_cityflyer.htm)

[WHBM]

Someone said above that the pax on LCY-Palma in summer were pretty much the same people as the rest of the year to the business destinations. Well, that included us this year, and it seemed mostly true (+ wives + kids). Although I think on this flight the Purser was the only one in the cabin wearing a tie.

Pleasant atmosphere on board, a world away from a Night Ibiza from Gatwick, in fact apart from a few murmers from the kids it was a remarkably refined experience. Less than two hours outbound flight time, and could have been about 4 hours door to door.

Significant load in Club, especially on the outbound. Not quite clear what you get for an effective doubling of the fare in Club. No lounge at LCY, same 2+2 seating on the Embraer, even the Economy catering is a meal both ways, plus drinks etc, so I couldn't quite see what the distinction is.

Surprising service, which seemed somewhat inverted, that meals were first to be distributed, followed after some considerable time by drinks; on BA mainline it is surely the other way round, I wonder why the difference. Among other things it meant the bulk of the flight is done with empty meal trays in front of you, particularly difficult for those with lap infants. Just two cabin crew on the 100-seat E190, with the one up front looking after Club, is a considerable workload for the aft crew member.

Skyflyer Packs for the children were handed around. Some of us are long enough in the tooth to remember the Junior jet Club, well the kid's flight log book concept is still in there and alive. I don't know if the Captain would still consider signing it like in the old days (do any of you ?).

On the return there were BA Cityflyer Embraers on charters to Glasgow and to Edinburgh in Palma at the same time, and the three aircraft were lined up in echelon on remote stands which would have made an interesting PR photo

Question for the tech team, but do the BA Embraers have three supplementary oxygen drop-downs for each twin seat ? I understood it was certain seats only that allowed lap infants to be in the row. The seat allocations may cater for this but with 2+2 seating and parents sat either side of the aisle, or one behind the other, kids were getting handed round during the flight, and yet the safety briefing and card makes no mention of where has this facility.

Speaking of seat allocations, bit disappointing that there were two elderly arthritic pax sat in the emergency exit row, who presumably said Yes to their additional briefing but were obviously (when they tried to stand up) not capable of handling the responsibilities, and just saw it as extra legroom. Now that boarding cards are not checked by the cabin crew on embarking, they have no way of knowing once everyone's sat down - but the reservation system has all the API detail, and surely should not allocate these seats to those aged over 70.

Little Miss WHBM (aged 2.75) would like whoever sources the BA GSE at LCY to have some better way of securing the mobile steps at the rear to the aircraft, it's a bit daunting at that age to disembark stepping onto that swaying platform.

[FFHKG]

Not sure that I like the ageist comment in the last post. I am over 70, regularly fly and am quite capable of handling the duties required, should they arise, of an emergency exit row seat. Having clocked up 100,000+ miles year until I retired a couple of years ago, I consider that my experience of flying far out-weights the question of age when it comes to acting effectively in an emergency exit row seats.


However, if as you say, the passengers in question had mobility problems, the cc or the captain should have re-seated them for the safety of all the passengers - by not doing so, they were clearly in breach of their "duty of care" to the passengers and I would have been tempted to raise this with the crew at the time or BA customer service on my return.

[BAladdy]

BACF will add a new up to 4 x weekly seasonal service from LCY to Bergerac service. The service will operate from May 2016 to September 2016.

1st May 2016 - 20th June 2016 & 23rd to 30th September 2016

BA8745 LCY 09:20 EGC 12:15 S20 5
BA8745 LCY 11:15 EGC 13:30 E70 1
BA8745 LCY 17:10 EGC 19:45 E90 7

BA8746 EGC 13:00 LCY 13:45 S20 5
BA8746 EGC 14:25 LCY 15:00 E70 1
BA8746 EGC 20:25 LCY 21:00 E90 7

23rd June 2016 - 22nd September 2016

BA8745 LCY 09:20 EGC 12:15 S20 5
BA8745 LCY 11:15 EGC 13:30 E70 14
BA8745 LCY 17:10 EGC 19:45 E90 7

BA8746 EGC 13:00 LCY 13:45 S20 5
BA8746 EGC 14:25 LCY 15:00 E70 14
BA8746 EGC 20:25 LCY 21:00 E90 7

[BAladdy]

Notice that LCY-MAH is no longer showing as operating during S16. Flight currently operates 2 x weekly.
Flights back on sale for S16. Will operate 2 x weekly from June 24th to September 2nd.

[marlowe]

WHBM Cityflyer crews are worked hard as you saw on the Palma flight , this also extends to the Ibiza, and Malaga flights, in fact any of the bucket and spade routes from LCY . In club on those routes a good Purser will get the food out first as this will occupy the pax and give them something to do, because if the purser did the bar first the club pax would try and drink the aircraft dry within minutes and keep ordering drinks giving the purser very little time to do a food service . Unfortunately those routes attract a lot of chav class club pax who are only interested in champers or bubbles or whatever stupid name they think is "in" for champagne. The bucket and spade routes need a third crew member onboard but cityflyer management are 100% against it .

[stab3.5up]

Shampoo I think it is this season chaps

[aus_aviatior]

According to the pilotsjobnetwork page for BA Cityflyer, under the orders section, they have 10 Dash 8's on order?
I can't find anything about this anywhere else on the web.
Is this true? If so when will they arrive? Operated by BA Cityflyer or will they be farmed out as they are doing now with the S2000 from Eastern Airways?
Anyone in the know care to comment?

[cornishsimon]

No idea on DH8s for CFE

However they don't farm out S2000s, CFE lease aircraft and crew from eastern, the aircraft don't have anything to do with BA, they are just painted in BA livery for the purposes of the lease.


cs

[virginblue]

On another website, it has been mentioned that Cityflyer will add a new route in mid-February served twice daily. Is it known what destination we are looking at?

[cornishsimon]

NQY ;)


cs

[davidjohnson6]

Last year ACL let the cat out of the bag about Flybe opening routes at London City. They've probably changed their policies since then...

[Skipness One Echo]

Well LCY-EXT is doing remarkably well (he lied.....) so I suspect the Newquay businessman must have his thrice daily CFE ER7 all ready to go......

Launching in Feb, presumably ski season destination is a little late?

[cornishsimon]

Well LCY-EXT is doing remarkably well (he lied.....) so I suspect the Newquay businessman must have his thrice daily CFE ER7 all ready to go......




Well even you must realise that im jesting Skippy!


However the numbers on NQY-LGW on a DH8 have offered up much better loads than LCY-EXT has ever offered! Some of that will be down to connectivity at LGW, however the NQY-STN BE route also offered half decent loads for a one daily!




cs

[virginblue]

Launching in Feb, presumably ski season destination is a little late?

Ski destination at twice daily :eek: ?

BSL has crossed my mind. BA would probably finish Skywork in no time. Other than that, maybe another go at VIE or TXL that both failed with Star A* carriers? Can't think of much else that has not already been tried by BA and subsequently bombed...

[Wingman1000]

I would think potential destinations for a double daily service could be: MUC, CPH, BMA, OSL, VIE, BER?
But if the route will start already in February, an annoucement can be expected soon.

[Flightrider]

As well as holding slots at LCY for a new route, BACF is holding slots at another airport for a new route to LCY. No surprises for guessing where - Belfast City. 3 x daily E170. They really have taken a dislike to Flybe, haven't they....

[virginblue]

Given the recent influx of additional routes at BHD - aren't they fairl restrained when it comes to stands? Wonder how they can accommodate the ever inreasing number of flights without logistical nightmares.

[Brovine]

WHBM: the additional masks are every other row on alternating sides of the aircraft, more or less, if I'm remembering correctly.

Club meals are bigger/better (a bit) than economy ones. For example, the club hot breakfast gets extra bacon, a bit of white pudding, and I think a bit of tomato.

As for the leased Cello - scheduled hangar maintenance cover, nothing more. Cello's G-LENM, WDL's D-AWBA and D-AMGL, and Jota's G-SMLA are all frequent visitors to London City for various different reasons including that sort of scheduled cover.

The Skyworks flights seem popular enough on Dorniers (and Darwin's S2000s) but I don't know if they'd provide enough passengers to fill an E-Jet from the little I've seen - I'm sure someone here has numbers though!

[BAladdy]

BACF have made some further changes to there S16 schedule.

Angers - Flights will resume 2 x weekly from 28MAR16, Frequency will increase to 3 x weekly during May and will then increase to 4 x weekly for June, July and August before returning to 2 x weekly for September and October. Flights will operate using a mix of E170 and S2000 aircraft. The route operated 2 x weekly during S15 and commenced operation later in mid May.

Nice - Flights will increase from up to 9 x weekly in S15 to up to 12 x weekly during S16.

Quimper - Seasonal service resumes 19MAY16 operating 3 x weekly through until 27JUN16. From 28JUN16 the frequency increases to 4 x weekly. Last seasonal service is planned to operate 04SEP16. Flights will operate using a mix of E170 and E190 aircraft. Flights operated up to 3 x weekly during S15

[stab3.5up]

Any truth in the rumour mill around BHD that a LCY is on the cards early new year?

[dantheflyboy]

I do hope not! Personally think having two airlines on the lcy-bhd route would be an over kill and flybe probably bow out first leaving higher fares with BA flyer which would kill off the leisure traffic leaving business loads only. In the long term probably losing both airlines. Anyone else feel this way?

[stab3.5up]

I understood from rumour control that it was to start in new year but could be wrong.

[flying officer kite]

I've heard 3 times daily, with listed departure times.

Flybe would of course be the first to drop out, but that doesn't mean an end to the LCY leisure market. I often use LCY with Cityflyer from other airports where there is no competition, and prices are most acceptable. Also if making a connection I would sooner pick LCY over LHR.

[BAladdy]

BA will take delivery of a new E190SR during May 2016. The aircraft will be used to add additional frequency to summer season routes. A E190SR will also replace the T3 S2000 currently operating flights to DUS from early S16.

http://www.wharf.co.uk/news/ba-brings-new-plane-and-10431533

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/102266/ba-to-up-lcy-dusseldorf-capacity-by-50-percent

[virginblue]

50 per cent more seats for DUS as alluded to in the articles means an E70 which seems more sensible - moving an E70 to an E90 route and replacing the S20 with an E70 on the DUS route.

[WHBM]

Nice - Flights will increase from up to 9 x weekly in S15 to up to 12 x weekly during S16.
What chances for Nice to go year round, now it's double daily in the summer ? We have business contacts on the Riviera who when coming to London use LCY for its convenience in the 8 months it operates, but drop back, believe it or not, to Easyjet at Gatwick in the winter.



Personally think having two airlines on the lcy-bhd route would be an over
kill and flybe probably bow out first leaving higher fares with BA flyer which
would kill off the leisure traffic leaving business loads only.
Maybe so, but Flybe only have themselves to blame. I've used the BHD route a couple of times now, and used to be more regular when Scot Airways operated it as part of Cityjet, but the Flybe product is not really a business calibre one suited to the LCY market. There's no provided catering, and the pay-on-board is so poor that I just skip it, and go into the Costa in BHD on arrival. For all that the BA breakfast may be derided, if you've been up since 0430 to get the flight it's very welcome, along with a drink on the evening flight home. Not really LCY market service standards. Furthermore, when I get to my meeting in Belfast, as soon as I say I came on Flybe there's a race for who can be first to say "you mean Fly Maybe". Actually they have never let me down, but it's an unfortunate reputation to have in your core market at the other end of the route, and I'm aware that the Q400 has had a long period of mechanical issues with them.



Cityflyer crews are worked hard as you saw on the Palma flight , this also
extends to the Ibiza, and Malaga flights ... The bucket and spade routes
need a third crew member onboard but cityflyer management are 100% against it

I agree absolutely, especially as (by their accents) it sounds like an Edinburgh crew in the middle of a 4-sector day. You must be zonked at the end of it.

[BAladdy]

BACF plan to increase the frequency on there LCY-IOM service to up to 27 x weekly for S16. That is compared to 19 x weekly during S15.

BACF plan to use a E170 to operate some of the additional frequencies. BACF currently operated a 50-seat Saab 2000 turboprop leased from T3 to operate the route.

British Airways to increase flights between London City and Isle Of Man - Business Traveller (http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/102275/ba-to-increase-flights-between-london-city-and-)

[virginblue]

So will the Saab operation reduced to just one aircraft?

[BAladdy]

So will the Saab operation reduced to just one aircraft?
Looks like it will be 2 Saab aircraft operating for BACF until early September. The aircraft will be used to operate to ANE. BGC, DUS and IOM during this time. Saab ops on the DUS route are shown as continuing through until 05SEP when a E170 will replace the S2000.

Not sure if BACF plan to return one of the Saab's to T3 at this point. I think it would be a good choice of aircraft to open up another new route, maybe to somewhere like BHD or BSL.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

See that G-LCYV, ex Republic Airways machine, is on delivery today. Is this in addition to the one due next May?

[firstchoice7e7]

Apparently there are another 2 ex republic E190's joining the LCY fleet.

[GCILover]

I really wish these guys would take over the sun routes from SOU. They would be the perfect candidates with the potential to throw in some underserved European routes. Chance of them giving flybe a good kick in the behind too

[SWBKCB]

Anybody know why the new EMB-190 was delivered to Manchester?

[The96er]

Anybody know why the new EMB-190 was delivered to Manchester?

For attention by Monarch Engineering.

[FFHKG]

Perhaps it is because BA Cityflyer's HQ is actually in Manchester, although LCY and EDI are their main bases.

[Avnu]

I was looking at the BACF flights listed on Wikipedia when I came across the fact that the LCY-HAM and LCY-BLL flights are in fact operated by Sun Air. I know they are considered a franchisee and there's a difference with for instance the Saab 2000 flights where BACF is wet leasing from Eastern.

But what's not clear to me is who's calling the shots in this case? Was it BA(CF) who decided to fly to HAM and BLL and contracted Sun Air? Or would a franchisee like Sun Air decide itself to open new routes? And how would BA in such a setup make sure they fit in the existing strategy for LCY?

[stab3.5up]

Any update on the LCY BHD flights?

[globetrotter79]

Avnu

The BLL and HAM routes are 100% SunAir's own choice and own risk.
They would technically have to ask BA (mainline, with whom they hold the franchise) for approval to operate the routes under said franchise - in turn no doubt BA would check with CityFlyer if this was likely to cause any issues...

Since CityFlyer never showed any interest in these routes themselves (indeed BA mainline going on LHR-BLL will have been a kick in the teeth for SunAir) and since they seem keen to lock up as many peak LCY slots as possible under BA-branded operations, I'd have said they'd have positively welcomed SunAir coming to do these routes..

[Avnu]

Thanks globetrotter79, very interesting. That was more or less the way I thought things are working but always nice to get a good summary.

[Birdeatingspiderboy]

Rumour has it that BACF are to provide Operator Conversion Courses to Eastern on the Embraer170 series. That in parallel with training their own crews to maintain pilot numbers. One embraer sim in the UK and a skeleton training department, how is that going to work ? Are the crew numbers at BACF OK ?

[jijpc]

I presume this training would be because Eastern are rumoured to acquiring 2 E170s of their own. I can see benefit to BACF as this would be an additional income stream.

It could also be of benefit to Cityflyer as these Eastern aircraft could be called upon for short term leases to cover maintenance etc given that the number of 146/RJ aircraft available for short term cover is very limited.

[PerryOaks]

There isn't a London City Airport thread that I can see, so I'll ask this question here.

If you had the choice of one or the other, which would be more dramatic as a spectacle for a passenger - flying out of or flying in to LCY?

Thanks.

[Porky Speedpig]

I would say that it depends on the weather and the runway in use. For arrivals a clear day and an approach from the west is great (look out for drones over the house of parliament (see other thread!), on take off in the opposite direction in low visibility it would be cool to emerge and see the top half of Canary Wharf etc sitting proud of the fog

[monkey.tennis]

British Airways owner IAG threatens to pull out of London City Airport if new owner ups fees | Business | London Evening Standard (http://www.standard.co.uk/business/british-airways-owner-iag-threatens-to-pull-out-of-london-city-airport-if-new-owner-ups-fees-a3171706.html)

[SealinkBF]

Wow! Four new holiday routes from Stansted.

STN to: Faro, Malaga, Palma and Ibiza.


Didn't see that coming, but nice to see them taking the fight to the lo-co airlines.

[LTNman]

A warning shot to London City?

[Buster the Bear]

Making use of the spare capacity when London City is closed at the weekend. Cityflyer are in the process of increasing their fleet by two additional airframes. I would have thought that this type of service would have been ideal from Southend?

[TartinTon]

Hardly "taking the fight to the lo-co airlines"!! One flight a week to each destination. Buster is correct...fillers to use the aircraft when LCY is shut and there is no business traffic. I doubt Ryanair are starting to panic just yet :rolleyes:

[SealinkBF]

I didn't suggest that Ryanair were going to panic.

[Fairdealfrank]

BA threatens to pull out of LCY?

British Airways owner IAG threatens to pull out of London City Airport if new owner ups fees | Business | London Evening Standard




A warning shot to London City?




Yawn.

Heard it all before: as mentioned in the article, IAG were going to quit Heathrow if expansion was allowed.

What, give up all those premium shorthaul pax at LCY? Don't think so!

It's bull: IAG has nowhere else to go, IAG knows it, Heathrow airport knows it, London airport knows it, everyone knows it.

[racedo]

I didn't suggest that Ryanair were going to panic.

Minor Passenger carrying Airline starts 4 routes from Stansted.

[BAladdy]

BACF are operating some BA mainline flights ex LGW over the next couple of weekends using a E90. Detail below

Sunday 20th February & Sunday 6th March

BA2931 EDI-LGW
BA2956 LGW-GLA
BA2959 GLA-LGW
BA9259P LGW-EDI

Friday 26th February & Friday 4th March

BA2943 EDI-LGW

Saturday 27th February & Saturday 5th March

BA2770 LGW-JER
BA2771 JER-LGW
BA2938 LGW-EDI
BA2939 EDI-LGW
BA2946 LGW-EDI

Sunday 28th February

BA2931 EDI-LGW
BA2958 LGW-GLA
BA2959 GLA-LGW
BA2940 LGW-EDI

Someone on another forum has posted the following question in regards to BACF operating ex LGW.

Is this permitted under the SCOPE agreement?.

Anyone know the answer to this question?

[cornishsimon]

It's a commercial wet lease which is acceptable.

What's not acceptable is city flyer operating its own schedules at LGW or LHR


cs

[goerring]

As I understand it, the SCOPE agreement is to protect BA pilots from being undercut by lower cost companies within the BA group / franchises, being introduced on their routes.

So SCOPE doesnt allow Cityflyer to fly anything over 100 seats out of LGW or LHR ( Except for ACMI ) but Iberia, Iberia Express, Veuling, and Aer Lingus can.

mmmmmm !

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I haven't seen the letter of the agreement but I wonder if IAG are being a little more aggresive to see how far they can push this before BALPA kick off.

CFE have a rather good product if only they could offer it at LHR/LGW to balance demand and off peak capacity.
Ironice as they're originally a Gatwick based operation if you trace them via BA CONNECT back to CitiFlyer Express.

[BAladdy]

BACF will add HAM and TXL from LCY and a weekly STN to TXL from from mid June

London City to Berlin

BA8491 LCY 08:20 TXL 11:00 E90 x67
BA8493 LCY 12:55 TXL 15:40 E90 135
BA8493 LCY 13:15 TXL 15:55 E90 24
BA8495 LCY 18:10 TXL 20:55 E90 x6

BA8490 TXL 07:05 LCY 07:50 E90 x67
BA8492 TXL 11:35 LCY 12:20 E90 135
BA8492 TXL 12:00 LCY 12:40 E90 24
BA8494 TXL 16:50 LCY 17:40 E90 x6

London City to Hamburg

BA3291 LCY 08:20 HAM 11:00 S20 x67
BA3293 LCY 11:45 HAM 14:25 S20 6
BA3293 LCY 13:25 HAM 16:05 S20 x67
BA3295 LCY 18:20 HAM 21:00 S20 x67
BA3295 LCY 18:40 HAM 21:20 S20 7

BA3292 HAM 07:10 LCY 07:50 S20 x67
BA3292 HAM 10:10 LCY 10:50 S20 6
BA3294 HAM 12:15 LCY 12:55 S20 x67
BA3296 HAM 17:10 LCY 17:50 S20 x67
BA3296 HAM 17:30 LCY 18:10 S20 7

London Stansted to Berlin

BA2299 STN 13:05 TXL 15:55 E90 7
BA2298 TXL 21:40 STN 22:30 E90 5

[BAladdy]

EI are to lease a E90 this summer to operate ex DUB, According to a post on the Dublin thread. Anyone know when the lease starts and begins?.

[BAladdy]

According to The BA Source, G-LCYV the newest and BACF's first secondhand E190 has flown from EDI to LIS for maintenance.

I thought BACF's maintenance was mostly carried out in WAW or STN. If I remember rightly this aircraft was last sent to LIS just before entering service. Is there any particular reason this aircraft has flown to LIS on this occasion?.

[Zorua]

New route in LCY for this summer:

Alicante - London City with 4 weekly flights eff 27 June

A greeting! :)

[towser]

According to The BA Source, G-LCYV the newest and BACF's first secondhand E190 has flown from EDI to LIS for maintenance.

I thought BACF's maintenance was mostly carried out in WAW or STN. If I remember rightly this aircraft was last sent to LIS just before entering service. Is there any particular reason this aircraft has flown to LIS on this occasion?.
It's going for a mod to have a cabin divider fitted

[willy wombat]

Seems BA CityFlyer has lost the cost control ethos of its Gatwick CityFlyer Express roots. In those days the cabin divider and necessary engineers would have been brought to the aircraft rather than incur the cost of flying the aircraft to the divider.

[AirLCY]

Seems BA CityFlyer has lost the cost control ethos of its Gatwick CityFlyer Express roots. In those days the cabin divider and necessary engineers would have been brought to the aircraft rather than incur the cost of flying the aircraft to the divider.

It doesn't have CityFlyer Express routes, it comes from BA Connect which had nothing to do with CityFlyer.

[Flightrider]

It doesn't have CityFlyer Express routes, it comes from BA Connect which had nothing to do with CityFlyer.

Would you care to check the Companies House website before making that totally incorrect statement? The CityFlyer entity trading at London City today is the same legal company (02571224) incorporated in 1991 which traded at Gatwick. All of the aircraft used by BA CityFlyer at LCY in its formative stages were also CityFlyer Express ones!

[Downwind_Left]

It may be the same legal company, but that company lay dormant for a number of years. The former Cityflyer Express operation was merged into LGW short-haul. The RJ100s were shipped out to British Airways' regional out-stations at MAN and BHX, allowing their respective B737/A319 fleets to move down to LGW/LHR. So after the takeover Cityflyer Express ceased to exist as an operating company, and was merged into BA mainline at LGW in 2001.

When BA Connect, the former Manx/Brymon/Loganair/BRAL/BA CitiExpress operation was sold to flybe in 2007 the fairly recent LCY operation was the only part of the operation not included in the sale. However flybe did not need BA Connects Manchester head office. So the Manchester head office of BA Connect together with the EDI/LCY bases crews formed the genesis of the new BA Cityflyer AOC.

So BA used the legal vehicle of the former Cityflyer Express to form the new airline in 2007, as most staff/aircraft/routes of BA Connect became part of flybe.
That said, the management, offices and staff were from BA Connect. And while some of the aircraft may have been operated by the old Cityflyer Express early in their lives, they had all been part of BA Connect for 6 years before the new LCY-based BA Cityflyer came into existence.

There is no direct link between BA Cityflyer and Cityflyer Express in terms of company staff, infrastructure or aircraft. Using the old Cityflyer Express no doubt saved some money over setting up a brand new legal entity - the old Cityflyer Express had been dormant for 6 years when BA Cityflyer was formed out of the remnants of the BA Connect operation.

[willy wombat]

None of which changes the primary point that it is (almost) always more cost effective to bring the parts and engineer(s) to the aircraft rather than vv.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

And while some of the aircraft may have been operated by the old Cityflyer Express
All of them actually, it was the entire new build fleet of RJ100s that had been operated from Gatwick. So aircraft, callsign and livery, and surely some crew as well?

[Downwind_Left]

All of them actually, it was the entire new build fleet of RJ100s that had been operated from Gatwick. So aircraft, callsign and livery, and surely some crew as well?

There were 2 RJ85s, not from Cityflyer Express, but on checking they turned up the following year. Livery is a very tenuous point, it's the BA livery. Definitely not crew. Cityflyer Express crew became part of the LGW mainline operation in 2001. The RJ100s when they moved to MAN/BHX were flown by the previous MAN/BHX mainline pilots who had previously flown the 737/A319s respectively.

In the intervening years between 2001 and 2007, operation of the RJ100s became part of the BA CitiExpress/BA Connect fleets, and crewed by their pilots.

6 years later when BA Cityflyer was formed out of the former BA Connect, that's how the RJ100s were able to retain the 110 seat configuration; they had previously been a mainline aircraft. The new E190 fleet was restricted to 99 seats by scope.

Regards

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

CityFlyer operated as a BA Franchise, the RJs flew in BA colours all the time they were based at LGW. But you say tomato and I say tomatoe. Heritage is a funny thing, like "BeaLine Echo Lima" towing at LHR. Go figure....

[BAladdy]

Just noticed that on Jethro's fleet listing that BACF are now planning to add a further 3 E90's to there fleet over the coming months. 2 of the aircraft are currently in service with the Brazilian carrier Azul Lineas Aereas. The first of these 2 aircraft is expected to arrive in June.

BA Cityflyer Fleet List (http://www.jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/ba_cityflyer.htm)

Can anyone confirm if this info is accurate. I thought that BACF were planning on adding a second ex Republic Republic Airways E90. Has this deal has fallen through?.

[BAladdy]

BACF will take over the LCY-HAM route from Sun-Air on the 8th May. I see that the flights are no longer showing as being operated by a Eastern Airways for BACF using a S2000.

Flights are now showing as being operated by Mhs Aviation for BACF using a 31 seater D328. With both CE and ET products still being offered.

The D328 will operate to HAM through until 5th September 2016, when it will be replaced by a T3 S2000

Mhs Aviation currently operates the service for Sun-Air however flights currently only offer a ET service.

[virginblue]

Makes sense as DUS will become an Embraer destination in September, freeing up a Saab 2000. Surprising, however, that HAM was initially announced as a Saab 2000 route. Has BACF returned a Saab 2000 earlier than planned to Eastern?

[BAladdy]

Both Saab's currently on lease from T3 are operating the IOM and DUS daily services and some additional to ANE and EGC through until September when the one operating to DUS will be replaced by a E-jet freeing it up to operate the HAM service.

I would have thought an agreement to lease another S2000 from T3 would have been organised before the route was announced. Mind you were BACF not expecting to have E-jet enter service in June and another in September. Maybe the delayed entry into service is the reason for the aircraft changes.

[shamrock7seal]

Big high yield market that would pay more to fly with BA Cityflyer from Bournemouth (BOH) all year-round at the weekend to PMI, AGP, VCE, SZG, BCN…

[goerring]

So Cityflyer have a new Director of flight ops, just happens to be the same Director of Flight ops as BA. ........ Any "alignment" going on here ?

[Boeinglad]

DEC..Any real chance to move from Cityflier to BA after 2 years? What is the process to be followed?

[BAladdy]

Notice BACF have been using a leased E170 (G-CIXW) from T3 recently. Anyone know if this is a long term thing, or only for the summer?

[LandingConfig]

Notice BACF have been using a leased E170 (G-CIXW) from T3 recently. Anyone know if this is a long term thing, or only for the summer?

Seems to mostly be used for LCY-RTM which I believe is normally on the Saab 2000. Maybe covering a tech SB20, or providing extra capacity?

[jijpc]

I think it is additional capacity. The 2 Saab 2000s are currently operating IOM and Düsseldorf services and also have been covering some Angers and Bergerac rotations. Maintenance issues have been covered by other T3 S2000s, recently G-CIEC.

G-CIXW has generally been operating Rotterdam and Venice services since it started ops for BACF. Don't know if this will change as the winter schedules start.

[LandingConfig]

DUS is soon to be transferred back to the Embraer fleet anyway.

[Skipness One Echo]

Read ages ago HAM was going to BACF on the Embraers but seems to still be a Sunair Do328 albeit with a "Flyer" callsign. Wasn't it orginally Sunair or was it always BACF using one of their Dorniers?

[Ametyst1]

I thought Hamburg was going to be operated by one of the SAAB 2000s.

[GCILover]

I wish CityFlyer would look at expanding outside of LCY. They would be ideal to go up against Flybe out of SOU, and there are so many unserved routes that could benefit from SOU.

[BA318]

The Hamburg route was transferred to BA Cityflyer in June and increased to three daily (up from Sun Air's twice daily service). It was suppose to be operated by Saab2000 but now BA are leasing a Dornier from MHS Aviation to operate the service.

[LandingConfig]

I wish CityFlyer would look at expanding outside of LCY. They would be ideal to go up against Flybe out of SOU, and there are so many unserved routes that could benefit from SOU.
Just added 4 routes from STN this summer.

[canberra97]

I would welcome BA City Flyer with open arms if they ever considered operating from SOU as they would be an ideal fit for for the airport and open up unserved markets plus of course giving Flybe some competition.

[BAladdy]

Seems to mostly be used for LCY-RTM which I believe is normally on the Saab 2000. Maybe covering a tech SB20, or providing extra capacity?
RTM has been operated by a BACF using one of there E70's for sometime now, The S2000 have been based at IOM and DUS for sometime now.

Have just looked at the timetable on BA.com and the following aircraft changes are expected to take place over the next few weeks.

RTM - Will be operated by a Eastern E170 until 10th September. The route will return to being operated by a BACF E170 from the 11th September

HAM - D328 will operate it's last flight on the route on the 9th September, being replaced the next day by a Eastern S2000

DUS - The Eastern S2000 currently operating will from 11th September be replaced temporarily by a Eastern E170 until 26th September, when it will be replaced by a BACF E170

[stab3.5up]

Would they ever give BHD a go from LCY?

[Cozy F]

Well BA CityFlyer management were in Belfast this week. So must be something cooking??

Is LCY a thick enough route for two operators out of Belfast, I wonder.

[BAladdy]

According to the article below BACF are set to add weekend flights from MAN to ALC/IBZ/AGP/PMI and NCE. The operation will be similar to the one that launched from STN last year. BACF will also add a weekly flight to/from LCY.
British Airways to launch Manchester services (http://www.headforpoints.com/2017/01/24/british-airways-to-launch-new-manchester-weekend-flights-to-europe/)
According to the article the schedule is to be as shown below.

Alicante (20MAY17-30SEP17)

MAN 05:50 ALC 09:40 6 E90
ALC 10:25 MAN 12:20 6 E90

Ibiza (18MAY17-01OCT17)

MAN 12:50 IBZ 16:40 7 E90
MAN 19:30 IBZ 23:30 6 E90
MAN 21:25 IBZ 01:15 4 E90

IBZ 00:05 MAN 01:50 7 E90
IBZ 01:55 MAN 03:30 5 E90
IBZ 17:25 MAN 19:10 7 E90

Malaga (19MAY17-29SEP17)

MAN 05:35 AGP 09:35 5 E90
AGP 10:20 MAN 12:25 5 E90

Mykonos (19MAY17-29SEP17)

MAN 13:10 JMK 19:10 5 E90
JMK 19:55 MAN 22:05 5 E90

Nice (20MAY17-30SEP17)

MAN 13:05 NCE 16:25 6 E90
NCE 17:10 MAN 18:35 6 E90

Palma (21MAY17-01OCT17)

MAN 05:50 PMI 09:35 7 E90
PMI 10:20 MAN 12:05 7 E90

[BAladdy]

The LCY-MAN service will operate from 18MAY to 01OCT

LCY 19:45 MAN 20:45 4 E90
MAN 19:55 LCY 20:55 7 E90

[nguba]

Any news on BACF extending weekend leisure flights to other UK regional airports?

[LAX_LHR]

Schedules for the MAN flights have been released and hopefully announced officially soon.

No details of any other airports at this time.

[inOban]

They operate such flights from Scottish airports,but they are exclusively charter PAX. In S15 they tried overnight rotations from EDI to Ibiza, but they didn't return last year. I think there will be fewer from EDI in S17, I know of one for Barrhead Travel and one for TOM. I guess the extra Jet2 flights will provide the capacity.

[LAX_LHR]

Cityflyer will continue the Scottish charters like previous years. The MAN flights will be a full BA operation the same as STN and not charters.

[BHX5DME]

MAN, STN & Scottish only

[VickersVicount]

interesting that the BACF charters have been using the buy on board model for years!

[FL370 Officeboy]

In S15 they tried overnight rotations from EDI to Ibiza, but they didn't return last year.

The IBZ flights was BA Mainline on the Airbus, not Cityflyer.

[cornishsimon]

BACF charters operate an onboard service based on what whoever the flight is operated for offers, if the company chartering the flights wanted a 3 course meal that's what would be provided


cs

[Cloud1]

Is there a timetable for CityFlyer flights that show the aircraft type due to operate?

I am looking at the LCY-FLR flights and whether they are E170s or E190s....

[LandingConfig]

Is there a timetable for CityFlyer flights that show the aircraft type due to operate?

I am looking at the LCY-FLR flights and whether they are E170s or E190s....
BA website will tell you. I think it's mostly the E190.

[Cloud1]

Thanks LC!

[Callum Paterson]

I believe BACF do weekend flights from GLA to ALC, AGP, FAO, MAH, PMI, BCN, NCE, Genoa and starting this summer a new route to Reus.

Flights are on behalf of a number of tour operators including Thomas Cook, Thomson and Barrhead Travel (a wee Scotch travel agent).

[_aax1]

With the STN Palma rescheduled to a earlier time with a e170, will we be seeing some new routes from STN?

[Tranceaddict]

New Routes STN and MAN

British Airways - LAUNCH OF SEVEN NEW ROUTES FROM MANCHESTER (http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/2017-228/8195?ref=HeroStory)

[Porky Speedpig]

New Routes STN and MAN

British Airways - LAUNCH OF SEVEN NEW ROUTES FROM MANCHESTER (http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/2017-228/8195?ref=HeroStory)
Good to see - hopefully the start of something bigger

[LAX_LHR]

The second STN aircraft gets rotated through to Manchester in a long winded way of getting the aircraft back to LCY.

Aircraft flies STN-IBZ-MAN-LCY, which means MAN also has an anomaly of having 3 outbound but 4 inbound IBZ, but also 1 inbound but 2 outbound LCY also.

The other anomaly is that the aircraft has 25 hours on the ground at MAN (possibly a back up) it arrives from IBZ at 1230 sat, departs 1320 Sunday to LCY.

[Jet Set Willie]

Or there is more flying to be announced!!!

[TOM100]

LCY isnt open on a Sunday morning but maybe it's crew efficient too ?

[pamann]

What's the deal with BA Cityflyer's on-board service? BA's website states "Drinks and M&S food available to buy on flights to/from London Heathrow and London Gatwick". So what does this mean to their services ex LCY/STN and MAN?

[V_2]

The serivce from LCY and STN continues to be complimentary until an unspecified date in "the summer". Summer could mean start of summer schedule (End of March) or perhaps actual summer around June/July. Make the most of it whilst you still can ;)

[pamann]

So after this time I take it they'll implement the M&S buy on-board?

[Skipness One Echo]

If one S2000 is on IOM, what's the other one operating nowadays?

[LandingConfig]

If one S2000 is on IOM, what's the other one operating nowadays?
Hamburg I think.

[Mr A Tis]

What's the range of the E190? Would MAN-JMK be a bit on the tight side?

[Jet Set Willie]

Only 1 S2000 operating for BACF at the moment. Hamburg is an E170 till Apr then an S2000 is due to take over. Man JMK is fine. Already operate from LCY with the small runway.

[richardwpprn]

I think there are more flights to be announced, i.e. There's a 9.55 am Sat LCY-PMI summer flight, but does the aircraft park at PMI?

[LGWAlan]

Theres certainly more to be announced - rumours of new routes too.

[AirportPlanner1]

richardwpprn - On Sundays the STN-PMI originates in PMI, leaving there early am and returning at lunch. So I assume the aircraft goes somewhere on Saturday afternoon to fill the gap, perhaps one of the charter routes or MAN, and then returns to LCY early afternoon Sunday.

The Sunday STN-FLR does the same thing, again I assume the aircraft does or will do something from FLR on Saturday afternoons.

On Saturdays one of the STN-IBZ follows this pattern, originating in IBZ early morning and heading straight back there.

[Jerbourg]

LCY-JSI 3 times weekly according to this blog

http://skiathian.********.com/2017/01/british-airways-to-skiathos.html

[jijpc]

With regard to the Saab 2000s whilst only one is operating for BACF, both have been based on the Isle of Man for the past few months, I think from the start of the winter timetable. The operating aircraft changes, however for much of the past few weeks G-CDKA has tended to operate IOM - LCY during the week with G-CDEB operating at weekends. Each has however appeared to cover the other during technical issues and delays that have occurred at LCY due to weather restrictions.

CDKA has recently spent time at Aberdeen with CDEB operating all services however last week CDEB positioned to ABZ, presumably for maintenance. CDKA returned to IOM at that time and is the sole operating aircraft on IOM - LCY at present