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-   -   Flybe-9 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599822-flybe-9-a.html)

TartinTon 18th Nov 2018 19:56


Originally Posted by Rutan16 (Post 10314368)

Still carrying 60 with significant numbers being codeshare passengers at pence in the pound will never pay the bills period ; That’s exactly the formula that did in bmi !


It all depends on how the codeshare deal is structured. Only inexperienced or inept deals are based on mileage. Any interline manager worth their salt will structure a deal based on guaranteed minimums
by class meaning that far from pennies, codeshare pax can actually be worth significant revenues often better than the point to point pax! You just need to have people who know what their doing.

Navpi 19th Nov 2018 05:32

I cannot see how the LHR routes make money.

A320 every hour wuth semi seamless connections or the flybe option in a Dash !

vanity ?
or nice juicy sale when time permits .

Cyrano 19th Nov 2018 06:01


Originally Posted by Navpi (Post 10314554)
Ior nice juicy sale when time permits .

Suggest you read posts 941 or 943 just above...

shamrock7seal 19th Nov 2018 10:12

Rutan16, thanks for the comprehensive response and factual rebuttal. Although they may be BA’s, BA cannot use them. When you say ‘lease’ who gets paid what?

anothertyke 19th Nov 2018 11:01

Am I dreaming or did Flybe pay £15 million for some LGW slots not that long ago? If so, presumably they are freehold, unrestricted and theirs to sell? So that's around half the sale price of the company?

RexBanner 19th Nov 2018 11:23


Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot (Post 10314391)
LGW and LCY have to stand on their own two feet as there's almost zero feed to long haul outwith the first wave LGW southbounds.

JER, GLA and EDI all feed the Longhaul from Gatwick, a small amount will connect from Europe too.

tigertanaka 19th Nov 2018 11:53


Originally Posted by DaveReidUK (Post 10314369)
Are you suggesting that BA's UK domestics are profitable ?

I think that the fact that they have just expanded INV to 3 a day including a nightstopper points to a reasonably attractive business (helped by lack of APD of course).

Not sure how they all stack up on an O&D basis but all the domestics produce a huge amount of feed for BA into LHR (LBA probably being the best example of this).

Doors to Automatic 19th Nov 2018 12:42


Originally Posted by 01475 (Post 10313224)
The figures in the graph are utterly useless (also ignoring franchises, along with the other faults).

Flybe's accounts tell me that their underlying business might not be entirely sound, but is recoverable and certainly isn't awful. (

That is exactly what the account accompanying the graphic says, so how can the figures be "utterly useless" ???

Mike Flynn 19th Nov 2018 13:22


Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 (Post 10314354)


Not necessarily. More efficient flying 60 people to Edinburgh in a Dash than to Manchester in an Airbus. Not saying it’s making money, but it’s not necessarily losing too much.

Could BE sub-let the slots to someone else? Or even if it came to it launch a route to Guangzhou (operated by China Southern)?


Now you are getting in to dreamland. No UK regional operator could ever fly to Guangzhou.If anyone could challenge China Southern it would be Air Asia. Trust me I live here.China Southern already operate two flights a day from Heathrow but Guangzhou is an awful airport compared to neighbouring Hong Kong.




Skipness One Foxtrot 19th Nov 2018 13:44


Originally Posted by RexBanner (Post 10314735)
JER, GLA and EDI all feed the Longhaul from Gatwick, a small amount will connect from Europe too.

I think I said that? Difference being that LHR has feed all day whereas only the first onbound to Gatwick and the second outbound is decent for the vast majority of connections to the Beach Fleet leaving the remaining rotations dependent on fighting EZY for point to point.

A320 every hour wuth semi seamless connections or the flybe option in a Dash !
I love it when Navpi sings the benefits of SEAMLESS (they're often not)!) connections via LHR, what a great point well made! I knew you'd see sense one day.
One of the challenges must be that flybe are competing with their borderline LHR operations with a large operation out of LCY. Now BA can do this better, in the way LHR-GLA was downsized and LCY-GLA up-sized with a move away from connections to support strong point to point London traffic but I don't see flybe having the benefits of scale to do this.

BA318 19th Nov 2018 15:41


Originally Posted by anothertyke (Post 10314715)
Am I dreaming or did Flybe pay £15 million for some LGW slots not that long ago? If so, presumably they are freehold, unrestricted and theirs to sell? So that's around half the sale price of the company?

The only slots Flybe have at LGW are for the NQY route. The rest were sold off for £25 million. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...t-for-20m.html

WHBM 19th Nov 2018 16:04


Originally Posted by DaveReidUK (Post 10314369)
Are you suggesting that BA's UK domestics are profitable ?

If they weren't profitable they wouldn't do them. I think you know this :)

How the figures are represented is, of course, quite different. I can present you with figures which, on a straightforward accounting basis, show the BA Domestics as profitable. I can also present you with figures done on an equally straightforward basis which show they have lost considerable money for each of the last 45 years. What do you want me to show ? Despite all this, BA choose to let them absorb a substantial number of Heathrow slots which have great value.

I did once, in consecutive weeks, pay more on a BA Monday morning trip to Aberdeen than on a trip to Miami. Both in Y. The Aberdeen flight was fuller ...

A network carrier means what it says, it is the overall network which is the asset value; trying to salami slice it down and look at individual bits is, to an extent, a disconnected beancounting pastime.

A considerable part of how BMI lost so much is they were constrained by Star Alliance connecting passenger revenue splitting. It worked OK where you had the long haul, but BMI, uniquely short haul only in the alliance, were short changed by all the long haul carriers into Heathrow. That was a real loss.

anothertyke 19th Nov 2018 16:18


Originally Posted by BA318 (Post 10314872)
The only slots Flybe have at LGW are for the NQY route. The rest were sold off for £25 million. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...t-for-20m.html

Thanks. Must visit my senior moment consultant.

AirportPlanner1 19th Nov 2018 16:30


Originally Posted by Mike Flynn (Post 10314813)

Now you are getting in to dreamland. No UK regional operator could ever fly to Guangzhou.If anyone could challenge China Southern it would be Air Asia. Trust me I live here.China Southern already operate two flights a day from Heathrow but Guangzhou is an awful airport compared to neighbouring Hong Kong.

I’m sure the Dash could make it.

Read between the lines. Perhaps you didn’t on purpose.

Brigantee 19th Nov 2018 17:43

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon...-flybe-2236883

Could be great news if they get a wealthy owner prepared to invest in the airline

stewyb 19th Nov 2018 17:53


Originally Posted by Brigantee (Post 10314936)
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon...-flybe-2236883

Could be great news if they get a wealthy owner prepared to invest in the airline

This article has been re-hashed from the FT and placed in BE's local rag. Wouldn't read to much in to this and would assume the local press are pro-actively pushing for BE's existence (and quite rightly). EZY would be a wise choice however for any takeover!

Doc Q 19th Nov 2018 18:14

Why on earth would easy jet want to get involved with a basket case regional airline ?

DaveReidUK 19th Nov 2018 18:26


Originally Posted by WHBM (Post 10314881)
If they weren't profitable they wouldn't do them. I think you know this :)

Actually, I don't. That's why I asked.

I've spent the last 50 years watching with interest while BEA/BA gradually extricated themselves from a large network of increasingly unviable UK domestic routes.

I'm prepare to accept that, on any sensible accounting basis, the presence of those remaining routes adds move value to the overall BA operation than their absence would. But that's not the same thing at all as saying that there are profitable in their own right.

SealinkBF 19th Nov 2018 20:39


Originally Posted by Doc Q (Post 10314948)
Why on earth would easy jet want to get involved with a basket case regional airline ?

Eliminating competition.

Cyrano 19th Nov 2018 20:53


Originally Posted by SealinkBF (Post 10315046)
Eliminating competition.

Even if the competition seems to be well on the way to eliminating itself...?


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