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gorter 27th Feb 2015 19:16

Originally Posted by brian_dromey (Post 8883172)
New aircraft have technical problems too.

Not as many and certainly not as complicated/confusing

Oh and for the spotters out there when I left the big announcement was going to be whether the company were going to order new Airbus or new Boeing. The executive director was supposedly seen in Seattle and Airbus were seen plodding around euroway trading estate several times with tape measures.

Sean Dillon 27th Feb 2015 19:53

Spot on Gorter! In-excess of 40 pilots have resigned/left this company since the end of Summer 2014, and more are to follow. Despite the "spin" from HR, recruitment is not going to plan! This isn't a career airline, and is quite some years off, if ever without a senior management change...it's not a happy place to be!

Jet2_738, whilst appreciating your just an enthusiast, this airline is one of the worst in the UK for a number of very important reasons as an Airliner World reader you just wouldn't understand! And your old aircraft theory is nonsense - I was in the same room when the CEO declared "I know these aircraft are costing us money and something needs to be done..."

If new aircraft are indeed been bought, I'd be scared as to where the pound foolish culture will strike next, as this company doesn't have that sort of financial reserves.

Lord Spandex Masher 27th Feb 2015 23:19

Originally Posted by gorter (Post 8883183)
Not as many and certainly not as complicated/confusing

As much as there have been many generalisations in the last few posts I'd be willing to stake my not insignificant pension on me proving you wrong.

Big Tudor 28th Feb 2015 01:09

Good work Sean Dillon. Exceeding even your own best efforts by being wrong twice in one paragraph. But hey, don't be letting facts get in the way of a good story.

SWBKCB 28th Feb 2015 05:35

being humiliated by having to pay a charter airline to pick up the pieces
Classic! what on earth does this mean?

JB007 28th Feb 2015 06:42

Surely, having aircraft that you own parked up, is a good thing
And that is the biggest load of tosh I've ever read!

gorter 28th Feb 2015 07:00

As much as there have been many generalisations in the last few posts I'd be willing to stake my not insignificant pension on me proving you wrong.
Unfortunately for your pension I doubt you can. If you want to use reputable scientific sources then I can provide just as many to disprove you. If you use internal data then you are providing company sensitive information to someone who doesn't work for the company. That'll bring you in to the highly efficient disciplinary system (GDF used to mean grounded disciplined fired to the pilot workforce when I was there) and then you really can kiss your pension goodbye.

I very much remember the very weird and wonderful faults at the start of last summer which would delay us for hours and have the engineers saying "I've never seen that before" or "that shouldn't happen". No real skin off my nose because it meant I could finally catch up on some sleep after the umpteenth roster change that week.

And as to parking up aircraft for extended periods of time. Just ask any crew that has flown an aircraft that hasn't moved in a few days (particularly if it's been raining) how much they love it. Parking up an aircraft even for a few days does it no favours.

And I believe it's Titan that have been called in to cover the A330 and we all know how cheap Titan are, particularly when you call them at the last minute!

And as to the 40 pilots resigning these last few months. In my personal opinion that is an under estimation. When I last saw one of the former managers at euroway he told me it was around 20 in November alone.

Lord Spandex Masher 28th Feb 2015 09:24

Gorter, I'd actually use my experience of flying two brand new types before I moved to Jet2.

fa2fi 28th Feb 2015 09:50

Yes, I am one of the tiny proportion of real professional pilots who come in here.

I honestly can't tell the difference between your standard EZY or Jet2 flight. It's buy on board, no entertainment (apart from boarding music on LS), pay for bags, pay for seat assignment, pay for extra legroom. They're both very much LCCs with little to tell them apart. If I was on a LS flight sitting in my pleatherette seat and I closed my eyes, I honestly couldn't tell the difference. LS are good at what they do, but to make out they're something special is a bit short sighted.

EZY has a very diverse route structure with flights ranging from 15 mins to almost six hours. It also has a diverse customer range: commuters and business folk as well as holidaymakers wether they be through easyJet holidays or one of the package operators who have block booked on their flights in the past or make up a DIY package of their own. EZY also do charters to Lappland and Northern Lights flights as well as the Fearless Flyer courses, so they do have a diverse flying programme. They also have the FLEX and Plus products to keep their high yielding regulars happy with further product enhancements in the pipeline. This is why EJ (and FR) actually fly in winter. I don't recall ever seeing 6-7 easyJet craft laid up in winter. However I have seen this with Jet2 in EDI and a few in NCL.

Jet2 certainly don't cover a larger range of the market (if you strip out the NYC weekenders). Yes EZY don't have the NYC trips but LS just do a handful of those a year. A majority of the work they do is bucket and spade 'there and backs' with little night stopping in summer. They're just like any other LCC as a whole, with a couple of ad hocs in winter.

A plane is a plane to me mate. Having only flown Airbus it is what I am more familiar with and can discuss. However I don't jump down people's necks when they say they prefer another type. I don't proclaim they are perfect nor do I gloss over their faults and big them up to be something they're not which is an important attitude to have no matter what you fly.

anothertyke 28th Feb 2015 11:05

fa2fi--- broadly agree. I think Jet2 have positioned themselves quite cleverly, filled a few gaps. They've certainly made a difference to Leeds/Bradford. The reason I like them is that the fringe competitors are the heroes of the market system. They are the ones that keep the big boys honest. So I hope Jet2 survive and prosper. At their size they are not in a position to match EZY and RYR in the new purchase market. Nor do they have the year round baseline to their business the big boys do. So to me their business strategy makes a lot of sense provided there is a second hand market and the engineers can keep them going at acceptable cost.

As a passenger having flown them maybe twenty times I find their standards of service comparable to Easyjet which is fine for the markets they serve. My mate who commutes from Amsterdam reckons they are more reliable on that route than KLM. But I wouldn't fancy an 8 hour trip to New York on a Recaro seat myself!

gorter 28th Feb 2015 11:08

Originally Posted by Lord Spandex Masher (Post 8883749)
Gorter, I'd actually use my experience of flying two brand new types before I moved to Jet2.

Oh that kind of "proof" that you'd stake your pension on. I was thinking more of the facts and figures kind you know the one that's actually quantifiable.

Jet2_738 28th Feb 2015 12:31

But I wouldn't fancy an 8 hour trip to New York on a Recaro seat myself!
Nor would many people, but when the price is that much less, people tend to jump for it (mainly those who would have to save up for decades to go normally, but can go, given the price) - and besides, they're not that bad :ok:

They are the ones that keep the big boys honest. So I hope Jet2 survive and prosper.
Agreed - me too! :)

fa2fi 28th Feb 2015 13:09

Actually given the period the NYC flights are the prices are never that much cheaper. It's a lot more convenient to go direct but the prices are not that cheap. I looked last season and it was 950 plus transfers.

Hardly cheap. Certainly more than BA Holidays were. But can you put a price on convenience?

SWBKCB 28th Feb 2015 13:28

Agreed - when you look at the prices BA/KL/AF via their hubs are often cheaper than the direct Jet2 flights, so for the short breaks these are marketed as, it's a choice between price and the convenience/time saving of a direct flight (and also peripherals like miles usage, lounge access, baggage allowances, etc)

Jet2_738 28th Feb 2015 13:58

I hate to speculate, but with the boss being sighted in Seattle, do we not think that this could be the time that Jet2 begins scheduled long haul ops, by maybe purchasing 2 or 3 767-300ER(WL)'s? Given the description at Boeing's Page, does a airliner like the 767-300 not fit in very well with Jet2? I can thhink of a few reasons why this could be:-

- Common Type Rating with that of the 757
- Varied range of missions - packed trunk routes to TFS, ACE, PMI, ALC
- Capability of eight abreast, 2-4-2 (economy recaro seats)
- Possibility of what A330, offered 'extra extra legroom', or business class

In the event of such thing, could we see Jet2 get Acro (who make the slimline seats) to adapt the seats across the 737-800 fleet, some of the 757-200 fleet, (and the 767-300 fleet) so that passengers could still benefit from the economy seats with decent legroom (slimline), but have built in in-flight entertainment systems - look at the link, Acro offer this. This way, Jet2 would still be able to pack the plane right up, still have the lightweight slimline seats with the decent legroom, and please passengers with an in-flight entertainment system in front of them. Surely the addition of in flight entertainment would mean the passengers would be happy sitting in the slimline seats - at the end of the day, they are very comfortable, even for a person like me who is 6ft+.

Could this be the way forward for Jet2 - a future fleet of majoritvely 737-800's, a few 757-200's and some 767-300's?

Ian Brooks 28th Feb 2015 14:14

That`s a big drift, starting sched TA is a big expensive gamble and even if it was the plan I cannot see them using new aircraft as far too expensive
and committed for a long time, more likely a lease for 6 to 12 months to
test the water.


Jet2_738 28th Feb 2015 15:11

Yeah, I suppose so. Maybe if not some brand new 767-300WL's then maybe some in the region of 5-15 years old - given Jet2's successful business model of buying older and saving money. I reckon that if the 757 pilots don't get moved to 737-800 fleet when the time comes, then it would be most logical to move them to a 767-300 fleet - still in production, with the lowest operating costs of any twin aisle airliner, can be packed to bursting and most importantly has ETOPS certification, to best adapt and cover to what the 757 could do. It will be a sad day when we say goodbye to the 757's :{

Lord Spandex Masher 28th Feb 2015 15:22

Originally Posted by gorter (Post 8883830)
Oh that kind of "proof" that you'd stake your pension on. I was thinking more of the facts and figures kind you know the one that's actually quantifiable.

As I made the claim I get to choose how I prove it. I can give you all the quantifiable facts and figures you like but I'm guessing you have something against real life experiences if it doesn't support your side.

gorter 28th Feb 2015 16:16

Jet2 4
That's patently ridiculous. The whole point of proof is to take subjectivity out of a discussion. Otherwise you move in to the realm of ridiculous like homeopathy.

I could throw in that every time I was sat tech last summer and having the brand new easyJet and ryanairs taxying past disproves your point. It doesn't prove anything as it is just my subjective view and goes against yours.

Individual experiences are not proof so I still say your pension is at risk.

CabinCrewe 28th Feb 2015 16:25

This threads really getting drawn out on the back of virtually nothing. Maybe leave it for while until theres something tangible and new

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