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-   -   Jet2 4 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/466290-jet2-4-a.html)

fa2fi 28th Feb 2015 16:46

Yes. I think it is time to give it his thread a miss. It was always very informative and good craic on this thread until Jet2's Minister for Information (Jet2_738) came along.

2Planks 28th Feb 2015 20:28

To be fair to Monsieur 738, there was some heavy criticism of Jet2 from the other side of the fence that hasn't really stood up to scrutiny. I dare say on other airline threads that some of the comments would have met with much sterner sanction........

fa2fi 28th Feb 2015 22:47

@Jet2 Minister for Information
 
No need to apologise mate. You're obviously some child or a troll and I couldn't care less about you or your online agenda if I tried.

You don't make valuable points though. You spout off personal opinion and half truths and present them as fact. If anyone dares disagree you vehemently defend LS and don't see anyone else's point of view. You also conveniently gloss over posts where your 'valuable points' have been disproven or found to be your personal opinion and that alone. You're unable to discuss things in an adult manner nor are you able to consider the opinions of others nor facts that don't fit in with your agenda. You're unable to discuss things like an adult, see things from another point of view and your militant defending of LS is tiresome and immature.

You already explained the use of the bold and underlined text. Just because you explained it twice doesn't make it any less annoying.

Anyway, bed time for me. Planes to fly and all that. I'd also say it is a very small idustry/community and I'm already pretty certain I know who you are and you're making a bit of a t-t of yourself. Just sayin'.

Happy spotting.

paully 1st Mar 2015 07:19

Fa

I think we all know who it is....did he get the red card under his previous incarnation???

Mr A Tis 1st Mar 2015 09:01

Guys, you are all making this thread tedious for ther rest of us. I would not be surprised if it gets locked.

Lord Spandex Masher 1st Mar 2015 12:52

Gorter your original claim was that new aircraft don't suffer from as many or as complex technical problems. I can dispute that with absolute fact based on two different brand new aircraft types. That is not subjective because it isn't based on my opinion or feelings but actual occurrences.

Just because you don't accept it as fact doesn't change the fact it's a fact.

gorter 1st Mar 2015 14:38

Jet2 4
 
Whilst I'm certainly finding your definition of proof amusing (at best you're describing anecdotal evidence but you haven't provided any of that either) I'll leave the thread to those who want it back to jet2 items as they wish. Enjoy the roster disruption. With all the crew leaving I'm sure it'll be fun.

Lord Spandex Masher 1st Mar 2015 17:05

I didn't say I would old bean, I said I could. Either way your opinion doesn't disprove anything.

EK77WNCL 1st Mar 2015 18:16

I like the fact Jet2 has older aircraft, it works for them and I respect them for it, I don't necessarily think they'd be any better off with newer aircraft, there might be less delays (or less chance of delays) but the aircraft are so much more expensive I'm sure it wouldn't be a good move at all. They do manage, they have managed and they will manage, and customers will keep coming back.

Jet2_738 1st Mar 2015 18:37

Well said EK77WNCL! Your average punter wouldn't notice any difference, especially given Jet2's modern interior. Put them on a 28 year old 737-300, and then on a newer 737-800 - I doubt they'd notice any difference! It's always great being able to see an original classic come into Newcastle - and I really like their new addition of winglets on G-GDFH! :ok:

brian_dromey 1st Mar 2015 19:20

I don't understand why people are getting so worked up.
The model of airlines buying older, but good examples, aircraft is a well established one.
Allegiant in the US have been putting new cabins in MD-80s for for the last decade while other airlines retire them. As their MD's are getting long in the tooth they are taking pre-loved A319s (easyJet and CebuPacific) and A320s into their fleet. More famous airlines like Delta are making good use of cast off MD90s and 717s, just like Northwest Airlines acquired used DC-10s cheaply and flew them for another decade or more. Even BA are taking used A320s from wizzAir for their Gatwick fleet.

Different airline models work differently, older aircraft can be more demanding of fuel and engineering, but are less demanding of capital and allow for more seasonality. You build a different type of schedule and support around 100, identical, new 737s than you would 50 assorted vintage 737s. Neither is "the best". They are different approaches to making money.

EK77WNCL 1st Mar 2015 19:52

Yeah, am I correct in my belief that something like 95% of Jet2's fleet is owned outright so it costs them next to nothing if they have to park them over the winter, whereas it's expensive for FR to have brand new 738's littered around Europe over winter as they still have to pay for the leasing etc.

SWBKCB 1st Mar 2015 20:06

Enough now, Dan-Air were doing it 40 years ago and doubtless others before them...

Jet2_738 1st Mar 2015 21:12

Yes, you're right EK77WNCL. The majority of Jet2's fleet is owned outright, so it does literally cost nothing to keep them parked up over the winter. Quite a lot of FR's aircraft are on lease, and as you said, it is expensive to keep these new 738's dotted about Europe, for this reason.

The following aircraft are owned outright by Jet2:
All of the 737-300 G-CEL* Fleet (20 aircraft)
All of the 757-200 G-LSA* Fleet (11 aircraft)

And the other following aircraft:
G-GDFB | G-GDFO
G-GDFD | G-GDFP
G-GDFG | G-GDFR
G-GDFK | G-GDFT
G-GDFL | G-GDFU
G-GDFM | G-GDFY
G-GDFN | G-GDFZ

and the new addition G-JZHA -- (15 aircraft)

Currently, Jet2 are leasing only 9 out of 55 aircraft (So LS own just under 85% of the fleet outright). Both G-JZHB and G-JZHC are to be leased, when they arrive before the summer. Still, a much more flexible business model, especially when a lot of your flying is seasonal! :ok:

EK77WNCL 1st Mar 2015 22:00

Pretty impressive! I dont actually understand the difference between leasing and owning I only know that owned aircraft are paid for (just add fuel) and leased are paid for in installments

Skipness One Echo 1st Mar 2015 23:53

Don't Ryanair buy direct from Boeing then sell on? That was part of their model, they got a great deal and all are B737-8AS except a very few of the latest deliveries.

The company are niche and local, they do well out of LBA and MAN, have a smaller base at NCL and BFS and picked up the flyglobespan market in Scotland. The quickest way to lose money would be an airliners.nut project of long haul ambitions with another new aircraft type. You need really deep pockets for that ball game.

take-off 2nd Mar 2015 00:28

I would imagine any long haul , would be tied in with jet2 holiday destinations , and heavily pushed from the holiday side I would have thought . There's no doubt that it's been looked into and if(should) they enter that market , will be done in a steady as she goes way , much like they normally do , worked for them before and continues to work for them . They do seem to have a pretty loyal customer following . Just wish things had been different down in BLK , certainly do miss them over here :ugh::{:{

brian_dromey 2nd Mar 2015 07:14

Leasing and owning an aircraft is much like renting and ownig a house. Except most "owned" aircraft are much like most "owned" homes, they are mortgaged in some way. I have no idea how LS has funded their "owned" aircraft, but I would wager that there is some sort of finance outstanding.

As for long-haul, I don't think it's established that anyone has really made a profitable venture of long-haul, low-cost flying. Norwegian and AirAsiaX's finances currently match the red of their aircraft. Short-haul LCCs have caused legacy carriers to strip millions from their cost base, so unlike the past the legacy names are already on-line, sweating assets, reduced crew numbers, fitted more seats, explored revenue opportunities. Increasing utilisation over the Atlantic is also a challenge, it's 2 sectors in 24 hours, very few ways to fit more in. The legacy carriers are ahead of the game in the major markets, the U.S. carriers have penetrated secondary UK markets with the 757. Hard to see where the market is.
All of that said, I will slightly contradict myself and say Jet2 might have a shout at long haul. As other posters have said the holidays business may be the key here, much like Thomas Cook and Thomson. But that's not really "new" or "innovative" or anything we've never had before, but it works and makes money. Low frequency to popular leisure destinations could work, but I don't see alliances, high frequency, frequent-flyer, code-share or any of that business.

IB4138 2nd Mar 2015 07:43

I find all this back slapping of and publicity for Jet 2 on this thread rather nauseous.

They are like any other airline who, if you have suffered many lengthy delays at their hands and poor customer service, will find them an airline to avoid if at all cost.

They would do their image no harm if they coughed up for their over 3 hour delayed flights, instead of carrying on prevaricating in the Courts.

Jet2_738 2nd Mar 2015 07:47

Agreed with brian_dromey. I don't think Jet2 are going to even touch the market of high-frequency alliance hopping to the USA. I think they will, if anything, ease into the market, and offer the flights as part of new destinations featured with Jet2holidays. They will compete (if anyone) with the likes of TOM or TCX, but won't go near the big flagship carriers' operations. Maybe we could expect to see about 1-2 times per week (at peak times), at first, from maybe LBA, MAN or NCL, and see how they go from then. :ok:


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