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-   -   STANSTED - 2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/245928-stansted-2-a.html)

aboveusonlysky 19th Jan 2013 00:27

Re the king and queen comment......i think he is just splitting heirs.....re the business, easier to get Ryanair growing again there than maintaining easyJet's current traffic methinks

davidjohnson6 19th Jan 2013 03:06

MAN777 - many thanks and much obliged.

One thought occurs to me, is that if MAG control both EMA and STN, is there a potential for some sort of less-than-competitive rivaly between the 2 leisure-centric airports ?
I suspect the absence of a rather hilly national park means that traditionally there has likely been some rivaly between STN and EMA.

With a more regulated STN and a less regulated EMA, but owned by the same controlling body, how would Ryanair likely react to how they schedule which routes are flown at which times ?

I know that STN and EMA serve different core markets (London versus East Midlands) but there's enough people in places like Cambridge, Peterborough and Northampton for whom both airports are viable that any overlap is significant.

Anyone have any thoughts on how much MAN and EMA effectively compete with each other in recent years ?

Helen49 19th Jan 2013 05:56

So another UK airport returns to local authority ownership!!

STN Ramp Rat 19th Jan 2013 07:27

Whats for the future?
 
So MAG is the winner and the bookiesfavourite won the race; what will this mean for Stansted?

Everyone has had time to size each other up and I am sure there have been some behind the scenes discussions betweenthe key players about what is planned. MAG has a good reputation with airportsbut they are significant differences between them. Manchester is the flagshipwith a good mix of scheduled traffic and is the second busiest charter airportin the country after Gatwick It also has a growing low cost business. EastMidlands is a primarily a cargo airport with a low cost passenger and charterprogram attached, when the runway wasclosed at EMA for resurfacing a few years ago it was done during the day toprotect the night time cargo program. Bournemouth has significant engineeringfacilities on site and it more about these than the flying program.

As has already been pointed out MAGhave a significant portion of the UK cargo market and this should not beunderestimated but I donít see a significant increase in flights for Stansted; themain cargo flows to or from Europe operate from the continent where truckingdoes not involve a ferry or the tunnel. Thisleaves the possibility of the perishable traffic from Manston or the fewremaining cargo flights from Heathrow. DHLís operations are focused on WestLondon and they operate the evening out bounds from Heathrow and the morningarrivals into Luton; it would take a lot of time effort and planning to refocusthe entire distribution effort to the East and all the other package operatorsare already at Stansted.

It will be interesting to see ifthey can develop the charter traffic from Stansted, it has been on a gradualdecline for a long time now; given that the main tour operators sell a year inadvance donít expect any quick move in this area. It is possible they couldattract the likes of TUi or Thomas Cook to move their entire London program to Stanstedwith the likes of a dedicated satellite lounges dedicated parking etc etc. Thistoo is a long term project.

The scheduled service market willbe a very tough nut to crack; there are deep seated and unwritten laws on aviation in the South East; scheduledservice full service traffic goes from Heathrow and charter from Gatwick; whenthe low cost carriers came they had to find themselves a home this has provedto be Stansted and Gatwick, encouraging scheduled service traffic into Stanstedwhen it is configured for the low cost market is going to be tough.

This leaves the low cost segment;Easyjet are moving closer to the full service model and have shown no signs of wantingto expand at Stansted whilst Ryanair have stayed true to the low cost model andfocused on Stansted. MAG and Ryanair have ďhistoryĒ; this history is all aboutManchester never about East Midlands or Bournemouth so it remains to be seenhow Stansted will fit into this. If Manchester think they can change Stanstedísplace in South East Airportís hierarchy they may try to reduce the Ryanairdominance by raising prices and improving facilities. If they do this expect tosee histrionics from Ryanair, expect to see them pull out aircraft and cancelroutes. Based on previous history Manchester will win and Ryanair will quietlycome back. If they donít think they canchange Stanstedís position then expect to see them chase Wizz and other Lutonoperators.

Time will tell what they have planned and I amsure there will be press releases in the next few hours and days indicating their thinking and the plans they have.

pottwiddler 19th Jan 2013 07:34

The whole idea of the sell off was to increase competition around London, I would expect a change in the profile of STN. More business, more long haul applying pressure on LHR and reducing the need for a third runway.

FRatSTN 19th Jan 2013 08:49

I would expect to see Ryanair and MAG building a very strong relationship. Despite the history, Manchester is now Ryanair's second largest UK airport with the third being East Midlands. The top three Ryanair bases in the UK this summer are all now MAG airports. Bournemouth is Ryanair's smallest UK base, but Ryanair account for a much greater percentage of it's passenger traffic, even more than at Stansted!

I would be surprised to see Ryanair pulling back at Stansted. BAA are already charging the limits they are allowed so I doubt we will see any significant rises in landing fees and other airline operating costs. I think for now, Ryanair will be very open to further expansion as in their eyes, the BAA ownership couldn't get much worse. I would hope that because Stansted already has very good infrastructure, a large airy terminal, lots of natural light, lots of space, a good layout, good range of hotels, car parking etc. that they recofnise it's an airport for LCC's and can afford to lower landing fees to a degree as less needs to be spent on infrastrutural improvements at Stansted.

For a time, I can see them using Manchester's profits to help Stansted get on the right track, but doubt it will last. In terms of what Stansted could, or certainly should attract are the non-based carriers at Luton (Blue Air, El Al, both of which used Stansted in the past), I would be surprised if Wizz moved as Luton is a lower cost airport, smaller and less direct Ryanair competition, the dream airport for Wizz I would imagine.

In terms of Gatwick's operators, FlyBe is the big opportunity who are currently unhappy with Gatwick's pricing structure. Stansted currently lacks domestic services and I'm sure MAG would want FlyBe at Stansted to operate some of the key domestic destinations like BHD, IOM, JER etc. Southend may also start to feel a bit of pressure if MAG can attracy EasyJet to grow again but I think that will be a much longer process.

All in all, I think the future now looks a lot brighter for Stansted.

pwalhx 19th Jan 2013 09:46

Not quite correct helen49, partial council ownership as MAG will become partly owned by IFM to finance the deal.

Barling Magna 19th Jan 2013 11:56

Majority local authority ownership; a 35% private capital investment. That's four UK airports for MAG now - is it time for the Competitions Commission to act...?
:)

G-APDK 19th Jan 2013 12:02

The growth at MAN has partially been though the area being a designated as an Enterprise Zone and the investment benefits that come with it must help. Stansted has no such EZ designation.

I hope the opportunities for Stansted are grasped, with routes like Frankfurt brought back.

aboveusonlysky 19th Jan 2013 12:12

You would think the Competition Commission might be concerned re Cargo, Barling Magna...aren't EMA, STN and MAG the 1,2,3 in the UK for cargo traffic? And given the importance of airfreight to the UK eceonomy....but maybe cargo just doesn't get people excited the way passenger traffic does....

mart901 19th Jan 2013 12:15

The trouble with Stansted is its like one big shrine to Ryanair. That does have some advantages and it wouldn't be a good idea to bite off the hand that feeds it but the downside is masses of routes to really random places as opposed to major hubs. That said, does Stansted have to try and be a clone of somewhere else? Could it shore up its position by attracting some additional carriers, maybe Flybe, some of the european carriers too?

Fairdealfrank 19th Jan 2013 12:28

Quote: "The whole idea of the sell off was to increase competition around London, I would expect a change in the profile of STN. More business, more long haul applying pressure on LHR and reducing the need for a third runway."

Maybe that was the plan of some politician or policy wonk who has no idea how the aviation industry operates.

The profile of STN will not change dramatically: it will remain a holiday and charter operators base, a no-frills airlines base, and an important cargo base. Indeed it's future may lie in cargo, cargo, cargo.

More long haul business at STN is so unlikely it can be discounted. Premium business is where airlines make money, and premium business is at LHR, 10-20 times as much as at other UK airports. Carriers that cannot get LHR slots will sit in the LGW "waiting room" or go outside the UK to airports with premium pax: AMS, CDG, FRA. It is as simple as that.

So, no, a change of ownership at STN does not reduce the pressure for a third rwy at LHR. It has no impact whatsoever and the urgent need for a third and fourth rwy at LHR remains.

Quote: "In terms of what Stansted could, or certainly should attract are the non-based carriers at Luton (Blue Air, El Al, both of which used Stansted in the past), I would be surprised if Wizz moved as Luton is a lower cost airport, smaller and less direct Ryanair competition, the dream airport for Wizz I would imagine."

Not LY, it is at LTN for one very good reason: proximity and good links between LTN and Hendon and its surrounding area. Other LY services are at LHR, there is no reson for LY to move to STN.

Suzeman 19th Jan 2013 12:38


You would think the Competition Commission might be concerned re Cargo, Barling Magna...aren't EMA, STN and MAG the 1,2,3 in the UK for cargo traffic? And given the importance of airfreight to the UK eceonomy....but maybe cargo just doesn't get people excited the way passenger traffic does..
LHR is the biggest cargo airport in the UK - it handled more airfreight than all the rest of the UK airports put together. Without doing the accurate sums it is over 60%. EMA is second, STN 3rd and MAN 4th with LGW 5th using the CAA 2011 annual statistics. MAN was below 100,000 tones in 2012 not sure of the other figures.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport..._2001_2011.pdf

As far as the Competition Authorities getting involved, I'm sure that MAG would have checked this position with them as part of compiling the bid.

daz211 19th Jan 2013 12:43

Ryanair is one of the Worlds biggest and fastest growing Airlines.

Why people see this as a bad thing for Stansted and its new owner is beyond me. Ryanair would make a great feeder Airline for any transatlantic flights from Stansted and this would also work the other way round as a easy route into Europe for passengers arriving from the states.

But forget long haul ! Ryanair brings millions of passengers through Stansted and forget about out of the way destinations Ryanair fly to many more main city airports than you think also they are flying to the main short haul holiday destinations.

At the end of the day Ryanair is a great Airline at doing what it does.

pwalhx 19th Jan 2013 13:24

G-APDK The growth at MAN has partially been though the area being a designated as an Enterprise Zone and the investment benefits that come with it must help. Stansted has no such EZ designation.

Not quite true that is it, the Enterprise Zone is a recent event and the Airport City which it comprises has only just gone through planning phase.

pwalhx 19th Jan 2013 13:27

Majority local authority ownership; a 35% private capital investment. That's four UK airports for MAG now - is it time for the Competitions Commission to act...?

And if I am correct Heathrow, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Southampton is also four, so as the competition commission are happy with that number one would anticipate they would have no problem with the same number under MAG?

racedo 19th Jan 2013 13:43


G-APDK The growth at MAN has partially been though the area being a designated as an Enterprise Zone and the investment benefits that come with it must help. Stansted has no such EZ designation.

Not quite true that is it, the Enterprise Zone is a recent event and the Airport City which it comprises has only just gone through planning phase.
I can see an enterprise zone developing there given the right amount of political arm twisting.

Getting BAA out of it is a great way forward and if Gatwick is anything to judge by then it will only get better.

Burnie5204 21st Jan 2013 09:41

Of course the competition commision have no problem with MAG buying STN.

MAG has had 4 Airports for years - MAN, EMA, BOH, HUY. Recently MAG sold HUY to Eastern Airways in order to partially fund the STN bid.

But look what MAG now has.

MAN serving the north
EMA serving the Midlands
STN serving the South East
BOH serving the South West



Also to the poster that thinks EMA is all about the freight you can think again - every year the runway get closed 4 times for maintenance (though they're doing 8 is FY12/13) and they are always on nights. 2 weekends of nights in November and this year another 2 weekends of nights in March for runway maintenance and improvements.

There's only 1 operation affected by that and its not the Pax... It hits UPS, TNT, RM and DHL (i.e. all the freight operators) and doesnt touch the Pax operation. Closes after the last Pax lands, opens for the first pax to depart.

MAG is also pumping £14 million into terminal refurbishments at EMA but if they wanted to focus on Freight operations they could have easially pumped that into pouring a new ramp that UPS want and still have change.

FRatSTN 21st Jan 2013 09:45

MAG should buy Prestwick. Then they have Scotland as well:cool:

Burnie5204 21st Jan 2013 09:46

Funnily enough at a meeting recently that was asked - "is MAG looking at scotland?"

The answer was surprising but I wont be saying what it was


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