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-   -   STANSTED - 2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/245928-stansted-2-a.html)

cumbrianboy 4th Mar 2013 08:48

Crazy to turn Ryanair down? I really don't think so. Yes they bring passengers, but to the small regional airports it's usually at a cost and often a cost that the airport is just not able to recover ....

FRatSTN 4th Mar 2013 17:12

Couple of links here with some short video clips from Matthew Hudson and Simon Caldar from ITV Anglia news about Stansted new ownership:

Promise of new investment at Stansted airport | Anglia - ITV News

Stansted now 'unshackled as Heathrow's poor relation' | Anglia - ITV News

Some interesting objectives it would seem...

Buster the Bear 4th Mar 2013 20:51

Various commentators in the past have suggested that without airport subsidies, Ryanair would not make a profit.

racedo 4th Mar 2013 21:22


Various commentators in the past have suggested that without airport subsidies, Ryanair would not make a profit.
Really

Please do list them.

SWBKCB 4th Mar 2013 21:38

According to Wiki, RYR have over 300 a/c and in 2010 had a turnover of Ä3,013 million, with a profit of Ä339 million. All from airport subsidies?

Various commentators in the past have suggested that Bears should steer clear of green-eyed monsters....

Suzeman 4th Mar 2013 22:46


Again with a UK population of 59.8 million (at the last census)
63.2 million according to ONS
Population

Skipness One Echo 4th Mar 2013 22:47


Various commentators in the past have suggested that without airport subsidies, Ryanair would not make a profit.
Ryanair take people to where they wish to got to at an affordable price. Making money from the aerodrome is the responsibility of the airfield operator. It is that simple. Some can do well with FR, some couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag, those, not doing so well.

It's business, and it meets local government(!)

pabely 5th Mar 2013 00:56

racedo, just google 'Ryanair subsidies', you will find hundreds of articles which show 'local' european airports give their public money away to attract Ryanair. It's great for thier local ecomonies but that is the way things work, or don't work in europe.

LTNman 5th Mar 2013 05:54

A subsidy could be seen as a backhander, bribe or even blackmail in some eyes.

racedo 5th Mar 2013 21:08


A subsidy could be seen as a backhander, bribe or even blackmail in some eyes.
So would you say the Govt and Local Authority subsidy in investing in infrastructure around Luton Airport is a bribe ?

FRatSTN 17th Mar 2013 22:34

It's gone awfully quiet regarding Stansted for the last couple of weeks, but you know what they say, no news is good news. My assumption is that MAG must be very busy talking to a number of airlines.

One thing that I will point out is that FR's cuts don't seem to be taking affect until 1st July. I'm sure they said April initially but that might be my mistake.

LTNman 18th Mar 2013 06:42


So would you say the Govt and Local Authority subsidy in investing in infrastructure around Luton Airport is a bribe ?
The investment directly benefits the whole local area and population by keeping the traffic moving and is no different than any other town.


My assumption is that MAG must be very busy talking to a number of airlines.
Can't see airlines queuing up to move out of Gatwick, Heathrow or Luton.

Bagso 18th Mar 2013 19:57

quite how MAG target their resources will be interesting !

The US looks a non starter so growth can only be toward Asia.

By way of example with all Emirates flights full there are strong rumours of a 4th daily pax flight and dedicated cargo service at Manchester, would they seriously try scupper that and lure these flights to STN ?

Where would that leave the new MAN CEO ?

FRatSTN 28th Mar 2013 11:14

When will EasyJet stop destroying Stansted!?
 
It is sad that I once remember not too long ago the 13 or 14 EasyJet aircraft at Stansted with routes to Alicante, Barcelona, Faro, Fuerteventura, Madeira, Tallinn and Geneva operating all-year not to mention up to 3 daily flights to Copenhagen, 2 to Munich, 4 to Amsterdam with Glasgow and Edinburgh up to 6 flights a day and up to 3 flights in the summer to Alicante, Faro, Malaga and Palma.

Now there's a much smaller choice of routes, a base half the size of Luton when it was once nearly on par and now has really poor timings and frequencies on many of the remaining routes. For example, for Malaga I now either have to be at check-in at 4am or passport control at 1am. There was once a midday flight leaving 12:30ish, perfect! What a classic way of throwing customers away! Looking at their winter 2013/14 schedule, there better be some big expansion plans in consideration to make the Stansted netwrok half descent!

Yes they recently opened new routes to Marrakech, Sharm El Sheikh and Sofia, but these are clearly an attempt to utilise aircraft for a longer period so it looks to consumers that they are expanding and introducing more routes when in fact they are replacing effectively two or three shorter flights with one much longer one, reducing the number of a/c movements and more importantly, passengers numbers and choice for consumers. A clever way of doing business some would say, but I for one feel a sly move like this insults the intelligence of those who have some knowledge about the industry and really makes me wonder what kind of customers they are trying to attract.

The best of it is that the CEO Ms McCall categorically said that Stansted would lose 3 aircraft in summer 2012 as a result of the new base in Southend, but more efficient use of the fleet would mean capacity would not necessarily be lost at Stansted. A bare faced lie of course as only 2 years after, not only 3 but 5 or 6 aircraft have been removed! Essex overall is actually worse off than it was before!

The main problem is that I donít think enough people are aware of the volume of EasyJet traffic that has been removed from Stansted. If a 4 a/c base at Southend really damages Stansted to the extent of close to 20 fewer departures per day in the summer of 2013 compared to summer 2011 and the loss of 5 or 6 aircraft, they really have got themselves a serious problem. Either that or the CEO intentionally lied to its customers!

Of course we canít realistically expect EasyJet to publicise a big cut back in Stansted (although of course Ryanair does) but the fact that EasyJet donít have the decency to even give reasons for possible Stansted cut backs and most atrociously lie by saying there wonít be any really is a disgusting way of doing business. Not telling is different from lying. I for one never appreciate a company that lies. I just hope for their sake that they donít continue to fool their customers and risk losing their trust and their custom once and for all in a forever shrinking catchment area they have!!!

All-The-Nines 28th Mar 2013 11:49

FRatSTN, you've made it quite clear in the past that you have a steadfast loyalty to Ryanair and an issue with easyJet, so maybe you should leave it there?

Do easyJet operate Public Service Obligation routes from Stansted? No. Are you an easyJet shareholder? I doubt it.

Therefore, moan as much as you like, but I honestly don't know what you expect to achieve. How about all of the times Ryanair have opened bases, thrown a fit at the airport authorities over high charges, and then left a load of passengers in the lurch? I'm thinking Belfast City as one good example. Just because Ryanair have been loyal to Stansted for a long time, and Stansted happens to be your preferred airport, does not mean that they haven't lied to and shafted people at many other airports across Europe in their time.

You may feel that easyJet have let us down at Stansted, but the last time I checked they were a private company in the business to make a profit. The last time I checked, they also made it in to the FTSE 100, and so they are quite clearly doing something right and keeping lots of passengers + shareholders happy. Unfortunately it seems that their future business plans do not involve Stansted as much as we'd like to, but running an airline is an ever evolving strategy and involves years and years of meetings/negotiations/forecasts/agreements between hundreds of different parties that me and you will never know about.

It's just one of those things - we should be pleased that easyJet are quite clearly doing very well in these difficult times and after all is said and done, move on and get over it.

FRatSTN 28th Mar 2013 14:53


FRatSTN, you've made it quite clear in the past that you have a steadfast loyalty to Ryanair and an issue with easyJet, so maybe you should leave it there?
Whether or not I like EasyJet is a irrelavent, but FYI I don't dislike EasyJet, I just prefer Ryanair. The "issue" I have with EasyJet is their continued reduction at Stansted.


How about all of the times Ryanair have opened bases, thrown a fit at the airport authorities over high charges, and then left a load of passengers in the lurch? I'm thinking Belfast City as one good example.
A case like every other where it hits the headlines, even the BBC, and people know about it. Why are EasyJet so affriad to do the same here? Perhaps because this actually has nothing to do with profit and Stansted fees being too high, if that were the case then EasyJet would have cut right back in 2007 when BAA doubled the landing fees but instead it continued to grow. I doubt they would have waited four years before deciding that Stansted's fees were really hitting profits.


Just because Ryanair have been loyal to Stansted for a long time, and Stansted happens to be your preferred airport, does not mean that they haven't lied to and shafted people at many other airports across Europe in their time.
Far from it! Ryanair have cut back at Stansted aswell, albeit to a smaller degree. Did you not hear about the 9% reduction in traffic this summer? Of course you did, because Ryanair publicise it! I can't see how stating how many passengers will be lost and informing passengers which routes will be axed/reduced at what time and offering full refunds or an altenative FR route is lying and shafting people??

The EasyJet way of "we're not neccessarily going to cut back" followed by a 40% reduction in 2 years and leaving people questioned as to whether a route has been axed or just not yet put on sale is a far cry from truthfullness and customer good will. If that is not lying and shafting people then I really don't know what is. It seems to be there's one rule for Ryanair yet another for EasyJet!


You may feel that easyJet have let us down at Stansted, but the last time I checked they were a private company in the business to make a profit.
The primary aim is to make a profit of course, but it is also to build and good reputation and provide a service that people want to use again. Axing popular routes from a major UK airport shows them clearly failing to see this. In some respects, you are probably right... perhaps they are pushing so hard for profit, hence why they are doing well financially, but the number of existing customers they will be losing as a result will in time damage their reputation to those in the Stansted catchment. They are pratically giving customers away to Ryanair. That's unquestionable!

Fairdealfrank 28th Mar 2013 19:38

U2 and FR: London airports
 
It's fairly obvious what's happened, U2 is dominant at LTN and LGW, FR has a relatively small operation at these airports. FR dominates at STN and U2 is progressively running down its operation there.

U2 is at SEN and FR isn't, so there's another reason to reduce its presence at STN. Neither is at LCY and LHR.

The alternative would be go head-to-head at three London airports and see who blinks first! What's the point?

LTNman 28th Mar 2013 20:19


Whether or not I like EasyJet is a irrelavent, but FYI I don't dislike EasyJet, I just prefer Ryanair. The "issue" I have with EasyJet is their continued reduction at Stansted.
Stansted has been in decline for years. Easyjet has only played a very small part in that decline. I think they only came to Stansted in the first place when they bought Go so maybe their heart has never been in the place.

Maybe Ryanair get bigger discounts than easyjet and easyjet has had enough?

STN Ramp Rat 28th Mar 2013 21:21



I think they only came to Stansted in the first place when they bought Go so
maybe their heart has never been in the place
you are correct, If I recall they held an auction with Luton and Stansted Airports to see which would stump up the most cash to have the airline based at their airport. Luton came up with more cash and never looked back.

STN Ramp Rat 28th Mar 2013 21:56

free WIFI
 
Stansted: Free Wi-Fi from 1st April - that


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