BA staff walkout @ LHR

[Desk-pilot]

To fly to serve

As an ex-BA back office worker/Manager who is about to start pilot training I'd like to correct the assumption that BA Management are all incompetent and ruthless. Many in the back office have a great deal of respect for what the front line do, but like any organisation there are a few bad eggs. Difficult to comment on the specifics which led to this action.

Last night I was flying back from Lisbon on the BA904 which diverted into Bournemouth. The crew did an outstanding job of looking after the passengers, some of whom were extremely agitated by the disruption. We finally reached Heathrow at 23.30 some 3-4 hours late and our arrival was greeted with a round of applause from the whole cabin for the way in which the situation was handled. It made this ex BA employee feel inordinately proud of the airline despite all the challenges it faces.

To fly to serve.

Desk-pilot

[foghorn]

Kaptin M

But then again I suppose the penalty rates they receive well outweigh the patients' considerations.

Sorry to sidetrack, but I have to clear up a huge misapprehension here - such 24 hour shifts are a part of the basic doctors' rota in many hospitals here (and elsewhere for that matter). It's not a matter of optional work taken to grab overtime payments.

[sirwa69]

BA Heathrow What is Actually Happening

I know there are other threads running but they have been hijacked by the "whose fault is it" debaters.

I would like to know what is actually happening at Heathrow.

I have three kids due to fly out of heathrow today to Bahrain.

On the BA website it is showing that BA 125 took off at 12:15
On another page it says all long haul flights out of T4 are cancelled until 6pm

I have just heard from BA bahrain that they do not know what exactly is happening and that they think that BA125 may be flying out empty.

Is there any one out there in Pprune land who knows exactly what is happening with the flights out of T4?

On On

[Shuttleworth]

Kaptin M - you are mistaken ( again) "But then again I suppose the penalty rates they receive well outweigh the patients' considerations."

Just to add to Foghorns post - my missus gets just the basic pay £1950nett - for 72 hours per week . Just five days per month free of duty!
You and many others are so sadly misguided about how utterly exhausted your doctors are when you attend A + E or other hospital specialty.
Difficult how any one can argue for the BA ground staff who have nowhere near such responsibility yet receive (nett) similar houry rates of pay!!!!This is an illegal strike - even the unions are horrified - SACK THEM .

ILS 27L.
Why no union support for this?
Why no ballot?
What do you think this will do to the pax?
What do you think this will do to customer loyalty?
What effect do you think this will have on your pension?

[Shuttleworth]

I was in the Crew report centre this morning when it was broadcast that "all long haul flights today ( Saturday)would be despatched empty". ( presumably a sensible decision - to get a/c positioned correctly and minimise long term deleterious effects of this illegal wildcat strike).
You should be aware that a huge cheer of applause went up - from cabin crew. They were excited about the possibility of flying empty!

It's saddening to see how many crew don't give a **** about the passengers . Just think of all those pax stranded - holidays ruiined- and BA's operational losses ( hotels etc). It really saddened me.

[nurjio]

So, who has any sympathy for the Wildcat BA Ground Staff?

Passengers...NO! - remember, they pay the premium wot ends up in d'pay packet and they are well p.ssed off at the moment.

Fellow BA Employees...NO! - remember, they all have had to address and implement reform to try to keep BA competitive.

Other airline workers...NO! - remember, they are just laughing at the "pathetic shambles" that is now BA (just heard that phrase used by a stranded passenger at T1) - demise of BA = more passengers for them = success.

The Government...NO! - remember, they couldn't care less. Blair's eyes are focussed a million miles from British Flagship Businesses.

Is there anyone else out there?

Come on, someone sympathise - except you Dispatcher, (your post was daft).

Furthermore, will someone sympathise?.... and then back it up with a coherent argument as to why this Wildcat action was a smart move?

[sirwa69]

Thanks Shuttleworth

Now I have just got to figure out what to do with 3 children who are stranded at Heathrow, thank god I had the foresight to give one of them a credit card

[MarkD]

Kaptin M

Pilots asked to roster extra hours beyond safe limits can go home knowing they

(a) are only inconveniencing pax, not killing them
(b) can go to a different airline where they operate safely.

Doctors, particularly juniors can go home knowing that

(a) patients will die as there is no cover
(b) conditions are the same all over the health system.

Look at the blackmail the press give out when docs threaten a strike. You don't know what you're talking about so wind your neck in. Start a JB thread if you really want to have this "discussion".

[OL200]

Nurjio,
i wouldnt go as far as to say this wildcat action is a good thing but I'm not prepared to fully condemn it either.
If what we read here is correct and BA plan to introduce an 'as and when needed' style of working for ground staff i think the implications for the rest of us in the job are huge - someone mentioned Swissport are also considering a similar idea - you can bet the others will be eagerly watching to see the outcome.
I wont get into a debate about whether or not this was the right course of action - I can see reasons supporting both sides anyway.
It is worth remembering I think that ground staff are often the first to be 'shafted' when money is tight. Morale is low from staff often on different contracts and benefits to their flying colleagues, the flying public becomes day by day harder to deal with and these front line boys and girls are daily taking the flak for, well, you name it.... Something was going to be the last straw at some stage and it looks like said straw has arrived.
Of course I sympathise with the pax whose travel plans have been sent into oblivion but for me the bigger picture is more important. Opposing a planned change to working practice which is likely in some form or another to affect us all sooner or later and not for the better.
Just my feeling on the matter......

[MarkD]

On topic...

I am v. disappointed with BA and BA staff. Wildcat strikes (not walkout - strike) do most to hurt pax confidence. I am emigrating to Canada soon and intend to fly BA on my way there as up to now I considered them far superior to AC.

BA should pay the staff whatever the "final offer" increase was into their bank accounts. If the staff don't consider that sufficient they can strike, but perhaps enough of them will be happy with it as an interim settlement. However, if BMI flew ORK-LHR, I would be seriously considering a move from oneworld to Star as my main airlines of choice after today.

[Anti-ice]

Lets end this A+E doctors diversion.
It has been well recognised by the UK public that they are overworked already for a very long time.



It's not a case of 'Wildcat action being a smart move' .

It is a case of ordinary overworked , overstretched people being pushed beyond an unimaginable working pattern for the rest of their careers / lives.

British Airways staff have already made many sacrifices which have saved the airline £1BILLION in 18 months.

They have already made a manpower reduction already of 10,000 people.

They're operating more services than ever , with ever increasing expectations and the staff have accepted that and adapted.

Staff are working much harder than ever, and have been co-operative throughout the entire process.

They are now at a point where fatigue and stress are commonplace.
(Even the pilots sickness is the highest ever reportedly , despite a recent pay incentive).

The latest proposals represent a very disruptive working pattern / significant payloss for groundstaff.

For the cabin crew ,where significant crew reductions onboard have already taken place - another crew member is wanted off by the management.

This would mean 3 crew on A319/A320/737 - with 2 premium cabins and a FULL and proposed enhanced service - 1 crew member doing an entire economy cabin by themselves with a hot meal service etc . . . 7 crew on a 767-300. . . . 12 on a 744. . . 4 on a 757. . . .

Enough is enough - the staff are infuriated and astounded by the proposals - it is a true insult after the efforts made over the last 18 months and continual adjustments.(with no pay increase for 3 years).

Nobody wants to listen and so its not wildcat action - dedicated , overstretched and demoralised staff have been pushed over the brink.

Would you accept a HUGE and unreasonable difference to your future career or lives just lying down? NO.

Would you want to work 60 hour weeks with less than the crucial amount of crew for the next 30 years ?NO.

Would you want to be sent home from any job after 1 hour , and only paid for that?NO

Would you then come in the next day,on a regular shift and then be told you are doing 16 hours instead on a regular basis ?NO.

At the moment staff are given the impression that there is no room for negotiation . All falls wilfully on deaf ears.



Alot of listening needs to be done, compromises made and a successful out come for BA's Customers and Staff alike.

[Jet II]

MarkD

BA should pay the staff whatever the "final offer" increase was into their bank accounts.

Mark your not listening - the Staff would be very happy with your idea, its the mismanagement who have tied changes in working practices to the pay increase.

As has been said before - this dispute is not about pay.

[MarkD]

my bad. The unions here in Ireland are paid up members of the flat earth society and I tend to get a kneejerk reaction

[HZ123]

I cannot see what all the fuss is about, staff surely have to realise that pro rata the competition they get payed more, do less, have more breaks and still spend most of their time bemonaing the company. As typefied by the contributor who stated that crew applauded the empty flights.

Vice versa management who within BA are grossly over staffed with hardly any of them required to make a decision can hardly be suprised at this action or the reaction of other staff. It seems so few companies care at all these days and BA is just another one.

[G fiend]

Here's a few reflections from 15yrs in aviation.

Baggage handlers have always been militant. always have been, always will be...no change there then.

Ground/passenger handling staff, by the very nature of the people who do that job (they like dealing with people) are generally very tolerant...I say again, something must have really hacked them off, for them to do this. Maybe they've decided that time for talking has gone.

I have never known ground staff not go the extra mile...and let's be honest, no-one risk's their livelyhood (and by extension their mortgages, families etc) without very good reason.

nurjio...why was 'dispatchers' post "daft"? because it disagreed with you?, well, I disagree with yours. I think you should read anti-ice's post...seems to me he has some idea of what is going on.

I work for another large charter airline, and I sympathise with the BA staff. Have you thought that maybe the staff think they have no other choice?

[donder10]

British Airways staff have already made many sacrifices which have saved the airline £1BILLION in 18 months

True,but too many seem to be acting as if BA now owes them something in return for this.The fact is,BA still has a lot of debt(4-5billion?)although it is starting to pay it off well.Despite that,BA's debt was down-rated recently by a credit-rating agency.More needs to be done
This does seem to be a labour v management debate with the cover of this new card system.Yes,BA is overstaffed in management but it takes time to sort it out(doesn't BA have an old dating agreement with unions(not sure which)that job losses must be through natural wastage etc?)
If not,then more needs to be done to remove the cappucino sippers in middle management.But belt tightening will still need to be done throughout the operation to make BA more slimline compared to others in this highly competitive market.

[Dick Fisher]

I'm only at page two of the thread so far, but am feeling fairly incensed at some of the comments.

Having worked for part of BA as an independent contractor a few years ago and expecting to encounter a world-class business, I was surprised and amazed at some of the very poor management practices I found, along with an attitude to staff which belonged in the 19th century.

I've no doubt a lot of customers are feeling very unhappy by the walk out at Heathrow, but should the correspondents thus far simply blame the staff who walked?

As is often the case in big organisations, my experience of the front-line people at BA is that they work long and hard to deliver a high class service, despite the antics of their managers and Directors.

So, perhaps condemnation of those who walked out should be reserved until we hear exactly what BA Managers demanded of them - and what caused feelings to run so high that they felt compelled to demonstrate their frustration in the only way possible. By taking industrial action.

[ojs]

Is it the case that?..

(a) Split shifts have *not* been introduced, and there are no plans to introduce them on Tuesday when ATR begins?

(b) The changes that will come with iARM are still under negotiation with the union?

(c) ATR is already used in other areas across the airline?


I ask these as (genuinely) open questions, and I hope respondents will answer in the same spirit.

[PeePeerune]

After having read the previous posts may i just say that within B.A many staff are receiving pay rises and more terms and conditions applied to there contracts which still make them below average salaries compared to other uk operators, whilst flight crew are receiving large pay rises and think its a flying school.........what way are they helping the company in such bad sad times in aviation?????????????????

[Jayjay Ococha]

Peepeerune,
Your post is probably constructed to illicit a reaction. If so, you succeeded. Please do not comment on matters on which you have obviously no comprehension.