BA staff walkout @ LHR
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Forgive me; I'm a mere individual employed in the aviation sector! I don't claim to know all the answers, but what I will tell you is that I have many years experience in this sector.
In response;
1. I sympathise with ILS27Left in that EVEREYONE has to retighten their belts....I think Rod is doing that...should have been done many years ago, but remember the 'prat' that was running the airline at the time? The guy that financed the 'Big Eye'? I understand that is a commercial success; good for him. Maybe that will offset the costs of the disastrous repaint jobs on the tails! Botom line is that I believe Rod is addressing the problem between the workers and the 'fat cats', himself included.
2. 'Working in difficult conditions and under high levels of stress' - forgive me, but pilots are not a unique proffesion here. I can name you many other jobs that are more 'stressful' than flying an airplane from A to B. Try a week at a stock exchange and tell me what is more stressful. Don't tell me how stressful an engine loss would be; how many times have you suffered that?
3. 'Does the management know that these people cannot go home at the end of their shift if a flight is delayed?' Why should they??????? There are fairly strict guidlines on how long anyone can work. That is in their contract and frankly, most pilots can expect and are expected to work much longer duty periods. If you can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen! You signed a contract, but having accepted it, want to change the terms?...not a leg to stand on. Why am I so vocal on the subject? I run my own business and work seven days a week, 52 weeks a year. No one deserves a living...you earn it!
Many will disagree, but thats my view
In response;
1. I sympathise with ILS27Left in that EVEREYONE has to retighten their belts....I think Rod is doing that...should have been done many years ago, but remember the 'prat' that was running the airline at the time? The guy that financed the 'Big Eye'? I understand that is a commercial success; good for him. Maybe that will offset the costs of the disastrous repaint jobs on the tails! Botom line is that I believe Rod is addressing the problem between the workers and the 'fat cats', himself included.
2. 'Working in difficult conditions and under high levels of stress' - forgive me, but pilots are not a unique proffesion here. I can name you many other jobs that are more 'stressful' than flying an airplane from A to B. Try a week at a stock exchange and tell me what is more stressful. Don't tell me how stressful an engine loss would be; how many times have you suffered that?
3. 'Does the management know that these people cannot go home at the end of their shift if a flight is delayed?' Why should they??????? There are fairly strict guidlines on how long anyone can work. That is in their contract and frankly, most pilots can expect and are expected to work much longer duty periods. If you can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen! You signed a contract, but having accepted it, want to change the terms?...not a leg to stand on. Why am I so vocal on the subject? I run my own business and work seven days a week, 52 weeks a year. No one deserves a living...you earn it!
Many will disagree, but thats my view
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Jack the Lad:
I was deliberately being non-specific about the "target" for my post. What is both unforgiveable and desperately sad is a management environment that has allowed a situation to develop whereby customer-facing staff at an airline can wilfully abandon a terminal full of passengers at a moment's notice - an act which has simultaneously ruined the plans of thousands of passengers' and their families, as well as hugely adding to the workload of those many selfless others around the country who are being left to sort out the resulting chaos.
I fear my epithet of "prats" may apply equally to management and staff in this sordid mess - to anyone in fact who did not realise that his/her actions will do nothing but adversely affect the credibility and future of a once great airline.
In my more cynical moments I used to fear that BA's attitude remained one that considered us passengers to be mere annoyances that stopped it from running an efficient airline.
Now I know!
I was deliberately being non-specific about the "target" for my post. What is both unforgiveable and desperately sad is a management environment that has allowed a situation to develop whereby customer-facing staff at an airline can wilfully abandon a terminal full of passengers at a moment's notice - an act which has simultaneously ruined the plans of thousands of passengers' and their families, as well as hugely adding to the workload of those many selfless others around the country who are being left to sort out the resulting chaos.
I fear my epithet of "prats" may apply equally to management and staff in this sordid mess - to anyone in fact who did not realise that his/her actions will do nothing but adversely affect the credibility and future of a once great airline.
In my more cynical moments I used to fear that BA's attitude remained one that considered us passengers to be mere annoyances that stopped it from running an efficient airline.
Now I know!
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Sky News is reporting that staff have walked out of T4 and industrial action is also happening at BHX and MAN. Does anyone know if this true? Don't believe everything you read in the papers and all that...
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Trust the overpaid fat cats to upset the staff.
We are going through this at Manchester. No money to give a full service. Maximise profits, cut the staff, reduce engagement standards on a/c, Now they want us to load ATP,s with 2 staff.
An accident waiting to happen.
BA fat cats need more cream to get fatter at the cost of the workers.
so says the slug
We are going through this at Manchester. No money to give a full service. Maximise profits, cut the staff, reduce engagement standards on a/c, Now they want us to load ATP,s with 2 staff.
An accident waiting to happen.
BA fat cats need more cream to get fatter at the cost of the workers.
so says the slug
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Jack the lad:
2. 'Working in difficult conditions and under high levels of stress' - forgive me, but pilots are not a unique proffesion here. I can name you many other jobs that are more 'stressful' than flying an airplane from A to B. Try a week at a stock exchange and tell me what is more stressful. Don't tell me how stressful an engine loss would be; how many times have you suffered that?
Er, with all due respect, what the hell are you talking about? It's not the pilots on strike, they're all working and right now are pitching in with the cabin crew to look after thousands of very angry passengers stranded all over South East England and Europe.
2. 'Working in difficult conditions and under high levels of stress' - forgive me, but pilots are not a unique proffesion here. I can name you many other jobs that are more 'stressful' than flying an airplane from A to B. Try a week at a stock exchange and tell me what is more stressful. Don't tell me how stressful an engine loss would be; how many times have you suffered that?
Er, with all due respect, what the hell are you talking about? It's not the pilots on strike, they're all working and right now are pitching in with the cabin crew to look after thousands of very angry passengers stranded all over South East England and Europe.
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Lemmings
I don't know or particularly care who's 'right' or 'wrong' in this dispute - employees or management - doesn't matter. It's pure lemming behaviour.
I had a call from a mate in T1 describing the chaos... walking off the job at 16:00 on a Summer Friday... and if what Scottie Dog posted is true, about pax in Exec lounge being threatened with police... absolutely the last thing our industry needs.
My wife is a senior bank executive... when she read the report, she said 'if I'd been in that exec lounge, I would walk through fire to ensure than no-one who works for me ever flew BA again'
R1
I had a call from a mate in T1 describing the chaos... walking off the job at 16:00 on a Summer Friday... and if what Scottie Dog posted is true, about pax in Exec lounge being threatened with police... absolutely the last thing our industry needs.
My wife is a senior bank executive... when she read the report, she said 'if I'd been in that exec lounge, I would walk through fire to ensure than no-one who works for me ever flew BA again'
R1
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As an ex ground staff member I can make the following comments about ground staff working conditions.
Because they work in the transport industry most of the rules covering working hours do not apply!
I frequently worked 12 hours duty with no breaks followed by 8 hours off duty and then back on duty for another 12 hours with no breaks.....This is not exceptional but normal working practice!
While I do not condone the way they have gone about this action they are some of the worst paid people in the airline industry and it's about time they stood up for themselves!
Edited for C
p spelling
Because they work in the transport industry most of the rules covering working hours do not apply!
I frequently worked 12 hours duty with no breaks followed by 8 hours off duty and then back on duty for another 12 hours with no breaks.....This is not exceptional but normal working practice!
While I do not condone the way they have gone about this action they are some of the worst paid people in the airline industry and it's about time they stood up for themselves!
Edited for C
p spelling
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Hand solo...maybe I didn't express myself very clearly here; for purposes of clarification, given that it is mostly pilots (I suspect) who are making their individual points here;
Even a pilot, who whinges at a 12 hour duty day (all too often on these pages), doesn't have much of an axe to grind. You take a job and bitch later? Less still, a blondie, without any specific qualification or attribute, holds an airline to ransom? I hope BA sack the lot of them. You work your nuts off maybe, go into discretion to get your passengers home and some blonde bimbo f**ks your whole company and raison d'etre?
and in doing so, your job goes down the 'swanny'? Maybe you lot think I'm radical, but only radical on the opposite side of the spectrum. My original post stands; don't blame the airline, blame the prats (and I avoided repeating that in my original post) for any job losses that will undoubtably result.
No one in this whole wide world deserves a living; you earn one!
Even a pilot, who whinges at a 12 hour duty day (all too often on these pages), doesn't have much of an axe to grind. You take a job and bitch later? Less still, a blondie, without any specific qualification or attribute, holds an airline to ransom? I hope BA sack the lot of them. You work your nuts off maybe, go into discretion to get your passengers home and some blonde bimbo f**ks your whole company and raison d'etre?
and in doing so, your job goes down the 'swanny'? Maybe you lot think I'm radical, but only radical on the opposite side of the spectrum. My original post stands; don't blame the airline, blame the prats (and I avoided repeating that in my original post) for any job losses that will undoubtably result.
No one in this whole wide world deserves a living; you earn one!
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Whilst I am sorry about the inconvenience to SLF - this has been a long time brewing, ever since 9/11 management have been throwing their weight around and pushing for a fight.
The management got away with ignoring the agreed systems in place when they cut back at MAN and BHX, now they have just gone too far and attacked fortress LHR.
Skippy has ordered his minions to slash jobs and cut expenditure (sounds familiar?) so he has got the fight that he wanted.
This may be all part of Skippy's master plan - BA mangement is well known for its dirty tricks, so the staff may end up on the losing side. But at leats this time, hopefully, they will go down fighting.
The management got away with ignoring the agreed systems in place when they cut back at MAN and BHX, now they have just gone too far and attacked fortress LHR.
Skippy has ordered his minions to slash jobs and cut expenditure (sounds familiar?) so he has got the fight that he wanted.
This may be all part of Skippy's master plan - BA mangement is well known for its dirty tricks, so the staff may end up on the losing side. But at leats this time, hopefully, they will go down fighting.
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Having read the various reports on the net it appears that this is a walk out by both T1 ground staff and baggage handlers. This is very significant, particularly as the strike has been orchestrated with some degree of precision. I have a great deal of sympathy for the ground staff, they work very hard under difficult conditions for low pay and regularly stay on to help the pax when the operation runs into difficulties. The baggage handlers are a different breed. A militant bunch, they are willing to walk off the job at the drop of a hat and are usually the first to down tools and go home when the proverbial hits the fan. If my memory serves me well then this will be the third walk out by baggage handlers in the the last 12 months. My fear is that the more militant elements amongst the baggage handlers have convinced the normally dedicated ground staff to tag along with them this time and the ground staff will take the rap for it. Its been known for a long time that BA management have needed to take on the militant union leadership amongst the central area staff. I fear that this will be the justification for that move and the ground staff are about to get caught in a very messy crossfire.
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My wife's a doctor and she quite often works 24 hour shifts. She doesn't enjoy it but it's a condition of the job and she has accepted it.
These ground staff do not deserve to have a job to come back to tomorrow morning. If I was the management I'd seriously consider getting rid of them. There are plenty of people who would take their jobs.
Praise must go to the cabin crew, pilots and management who are left to clear up the mess that has been caused by this ridiculous episode.
These ground staff do not deserve to have a job to come back to tomorrow morning. If I was the management I'd seriously consider getting rid of them. There are plenty of people who would take their jobs.
Praise must go to the cabin crew, pilots and management who are left to clear up the mess that has been caused by this ridiculous episode.
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I'm with BWB - hope they get fired.
Many BA staff have simply been there too long and don't know what its like to work! A spell in the real world will open their eyes. I hope the company has a contingency plan and can bring in contractors.
Many BA staff have simply been there too long and don't know what its like to work! A spell in the real world will open their eyes. I hope the company has a contingency plan and can bring in contractors.
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I wish everyone would cut the bullshi* about ....I work 26 hours a day as a Doctor, Lawyer etc when necessary and I don't complain.
Ground staff are the gearbox of an airport and work their hearts out for peanuts. I am 100% sure that no body in their ranks needs to be lectured about the possible outcomes of their actions this evening, particularly ponces outside the industry (me included in that category).
Cut them some slack and let's see what happens. We all know it will be serious but let's wait and see what unfolds before everyone gets on their high horse.........................
Ncusack
Ground staff are the gearbox of an airport and work their hearts out for peanuts. I am 100% sure that no body in their ranks needs to be lectured about the possible outcomes of their actions this evening, particularly ponces outside the industry (me included in that category).
Cut them some slack and let's see what happens. We all know it will be serious but let's wait and see what unfolds before everyone gets on their high horse.........................
Ncusack
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As SLF who uses T1 more than anywhere else (except ABZ), my main comment is that what goes around, comes around. The BA management treat staff like sh1t, then they get treated the same way back. The SLF has been subject to cutback after cutback, first the cream teas get replaced by a sarnie in a bag, then they remove the rubish cake from the bag as well. All signs of penny pinching we see as SLF, so what the he11 are the management doing to the workers?
The groundstaff I come into contact with are professional and friendly, so the management must have pushed them too far this time. Comments at the AGM about "summer sickness" do nothing for morale, so the cr@p that will follow this episode will hit BA where it hurts most, but the ostriches will continue to bury their heads in the sand and blame everyone but themselves.
A final plea! Easyjet, please do an afternoon ABZ trip so I don't have to face T1 and BA again!
The groundstaff I come into contact with are professional and friendly, so the management must have pushed them too far this time. Comments at the AGM about "summer sickness" do nothing for morale, so the cr@p that will follow this episode will hit BA where it hurts most, but the ostriches will continue to bury their heads in the sand and blame everyone but themselves.
A final plea! Easyjet, please do an afternoon ABZ trip so I don't have to face T1 and BA again!
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My wife's a doctor and she quite often works 24 hour shifts. She doesn't enjoy it but it's a condition of the job and she has accepted it.
However - 24 hour shifts are not, and never have been, a condition of employment at BA.
Should the company wish us to work 24 hours, I look forward to being paid as much as a doctor.
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Jet 11
<shaking my head and banging it against a brick wall!> "ever since 9/11 management...throwing heavy weight around"??
Do you REALLY believe that on 12 September all of the airline maagement got replaced by a new breed of managers? Of course it was the managers faults concerning the terrorist attacks; maybe they rcruited AlQueda so that they could disguise their inept management. Dream on. Tell half of the American pilot force that now sit at home without a job to go to!
Wow...what is fortress LHR? a bastion of english imperialism that is sacrosanct against any financial reality? Maybe I could get a job there and be secure, in spite of any financial justification?
Skippy has orchestrated this to gain "the fight he wanted"?
"Hopefuly they will go down fighting"?
Jet 11...they appear to be very stupid....either you are more so or you are being very mischievous in enticing them to use their very limited brainpower to make their situation very much worse...either way, you should refrain.
and Jet II, with my extreme intelligence as a baggage handler, I too deserve to get paid the same rate of pay as a doctor; especially as I f**d all my exams at school and never attended class and turned down 7 years at university
Give me a break
<shaking my head and banging it against a brick wall!> "ever since 9/11 management...throwing heavy weight around"??
Do you REALLY believe that on 12 September all of the airline maagement got replaced by a new breed of managers? Of course it was the managers faults concerning the terrorist attacks; maybe they rcruited AlQueda so that they could disguise their inept management. Dream on. Tell half of the American pilot force that now sit at home without a job to go to!
Wow...what is fortress LHR? a bastion of english imperialism that is sacrosanct against any financial reality? Maybe I could get a job there and be secure, in spite of any financial justification?
Skippy has orchestrated this to gain "the fight he wanted"?
"Hopefuly they will go down fighting"?
Jet 11...they appear to be very stupid....either you are more so or you are being very mischievous in enticing them to use their very limited brainpower to make their situation very much worse...either way, you should refrain.
and Jet II, with my extreme intelligence as a baggage handler, I too deserve to get paid the same rate of pay as a doctor; especially as I f**d all my exams at school and never attended class and turned down 7 years at university
Give me a break
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Jet II – You are totally mistaken! (going off thread here) – My missus is a doctor too . She takes home £1950 pcm – for a totally shattering 72 hours a week – far less than the top third of BA cabin crew. ( who can nett over £4000 pcm). Methinks there is a slight difference in knowledge skill and responsibility too! BW Briscoe has a valid point .
GwynM – You should know - It’s a fact that “sickness” is a big problem at BA . They certainly have trouble providing the cabin crew to operate planned flights during Ascot , Henley and Wimbledon weeks. I am not aware of any poor statistics for the ground staff though – just cabin crew.
GwynM – You should know - It’s a fact that “sickness” is a big problem at BA . They certainly have trouble providing the cabin crew to operate planned flights during Ascot , Henley and Wimbledon weeks. I am not aware of any poor statistics for the ground staff though – just cabin crew.
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Jack The Lad
You seem to have a very limited view of what actually happens inside BA - suffice to say that not all of its staff are as stupid as you seem to think, but they do have some self respect. The company offered the Engineers a 3% pay increase recently - it todays market a decent enough offer you might think - however they added on so many changes to the T&C's that this offer was rejected by 98%.
So until you are totally au fait with the ins and outs of BA's internal politics, I would ask you to reserve comment.
Shuttleworth
Try reading the thread - its the ground crew that have walked out.
You seem to have a very limited view of what actually happens inside BA - suffice to say that not all of its staff are as stupid as you seem to think, but they do have some self respect. The company offered the Engineers a 3% pay increase recently - it todays market a decent enough offer you might think - however they added on so many changes to the T&C's that this offer was rejected by 98%.
So until you are totally au fait with the ins and outs of BA's internal politics, I would ask you to reserve comment.
Shuttleworth
Try reading the thread - its the ground crew that have walked out.
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If it's a fact that "sickness" really happens during summer "EVENTS", then surely that is a management failing in not motivating their staff.
But hey! It's easier to blame the symptom than the cause.
But hey! It's easier to blame the symptom than the cause.