BA staff walkout @ LHR
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Timstza
Sorry mate, but you don't know what you are talking about in this particular instance.
I had some involvement with the iARM programme a couple of years ago and can tell you that even that far out, there was extensive and serious consultation with ALL the affected unions at LHR and LGW. And it may surprise you to know just how many unions there are at LHR.
Hand Solo has already made some pertinent comments and as I'm 2 years out of date with BA, I shan't comment on the present - however the impact on cashflow and profitability of this action will hurt the airline badly at a difficult time.
BA had it coming to them, and them and a few other companies better take note. No ground staff = no flights, its as simple as that. It appears the management at BA have completely misjudged the mood of their people. That is appalling management.
I had some involvement with the iARM programme a couple of years ago and can tell you that even that far out, there was extensive and serious consultation with ALL the affected unions at LHR and LGW. And it may surprise you to know just how many unions there are at LHR.
Hand Solo has already made some pertinent comments and as I'm 2 years out of date with BA, I shan't comment on the present - however the impact on cashflow and profitability of this action will hurt the airline badly at a difficult time.
I say there boy
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And for the poster who stated that his "wife is a doctor who works 24 hour shifts", my comment to you, and she, is "How totally IRRESPONSIBLE for a person with that amount of responsibility, to do that!".
Please post her name and the place where she works - I sure as hell wouldn't want to be one of her customers/patients!!
Please post her name and the place where she works - I sure as hell wouldn't want to be one of her customers/patients!!
And she has to do it all again on Sunday.
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Jack The Lad
Read the post - the company offered 3%.
As for Monarch and My Travel - what has that got do with the situation inside BA?
The BA pilots have already had a very nice pay rise, something that was discussed widely on this forum, so please try to stop the thread creep.
Have you had the odd drink or two? - this dispute is not about pay - its about changes to agreed T&C's.
Hmm, I wonder if your attitude would be the same if it were another flight crew dispute.
who promised them any payrise at all? Where is it written that they will get a payrise each year?
how many pilots have had a payrise at all this year? Ask how many My Travel pilots have had a payrise and whether that is their major concern? Ask Monarch pilots, who has had a pay rise? Ask anyone!
The BA pilots have already had a very nice pay rise, something that was discussed widely on this forum, so please try to stop the thread creep.
Yet, the fact that the blond bimbos and other "educated" types haven't been offered a 3% rise, gives them grounds to ruin their employers business, is ok?
I say again...sack the lot and recruit people that want and need a job and who might show some loyalty to those that pay their wages.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
As a parent who had a child in a paediatric hospital for some 9 months (due to AML - acute myeloid leukaemia), and who witnessed the suffering of many other children, foghorn, I can only say that your last post reviles me even more, to think that those children - many who have since passed on, at tender ages ranging from 12 months to 15 years - were being attended to by people who were incapable of providing clear thinking after unnecessarily long duty periods.
But then again I suppose the penalty rates they receive well outweigh the patients' considerations.
Sorry to sidetrack the main issue.
But then again I suppose the penalty rates they receive well outweigh the patients' considerations.
Sorry to sidetrack the main issue.
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HiSpeedTape, I suspect it's possible to be a 'pilot' without flying full time for a major carrier....a PPL holder perhaps? Admittedly, shouldn't really put it in the 'Occupation' field.....
With regards to those "intelligent" staff at BA T1, they have just unwittingly opened themselves for the biggest shafting any group has ever had.
I'm buying shares in Servisair.
With regards to those "intelligent" staff at BA T1, they have just unwittingly opened themselves for the biggest shafting any group has ever had.
I'm buying shares in Servisair.
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re ba staff
i am not employed by ba but i have to agree with the staff ,i have been in the airline industry for 12 years and it is about time people started to make a point tha low pay and bad working conditions can no longer go on,unlike many industries we dont get paid overtime so if you do a 20 hour day you only get paid for 12 hours or working on days off you dont get them back and in many cases leave can be cancelled and you have to put up with it. As for making a living yeah you do earn a living in this industry you work your butts off. Oh by the way jtl you try laning a fully ladened 747 with upto 500 souls on board in bad weather knowing that any moment that aircraft could be slammed into tha ground killing everyone on board then you will realise what stress is coz at the end of the day we are here to save your arse not kiss it !!!!!
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With my experience of ground staff- people who regularly go the extra mile when the sh** hits the fan , it takes a lot to really p**s them off...and to walk out just like that!
I think that perhaps we all should wind our necks in and wait for more information before we shout our mouths off about "sackin' the lot of 'em".
I would also remind the gob**tes that we are in the 21st century- people have the right to withdraw their labour when in dispute. Industrial relations have come a long way since the Peterloo massacre- but as a previous postee has said "management gets the union they deserve". I've been lucky- my company recognised unions for the useful contribution they could give, consequently, disputes are dealt in an adult and reasonable fashion.
I think that perhaps we all should wind our necks in and wait for more information before we shout our mouths off about "sackin' the lot of 'em".
I would also remind the gob**tes that we are in the 21st century- people have the right to withdraw their labour when in dispute. Industrial relations have come a long way since the Peterloo massacre- but as a previous postee has said "management gets the union they deserve". I've been lucky- my company recognised unions for the useful contribution they could give, consequently, disputes are dealt in an adult and reasonable fashion.
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They've done it again this morning!
According to Sky News they've walked out of T4 as well!
Apparently they have also left unaccompanied minors on their own!! Now, this is completely unacceptable!
Get rid of the lot - they don't deserve to have these jobs.
Don't they know what the unions are for?
According to Sky News they've walked out of T4 as well!
Apparently they have also left unaccompanied minors on their own!! Now, this is completely unacceptable!
Get rid of the lot - they don't deserve to have these jobs.
Don't they know what the unions are for?
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headsethair you're back making false assumptions again:
Wrong, wrong and wrong again. First, LHR didn't grind to a halt, BAs T1 operation did. Second, BA don't run the ground handling at T1, we do our own handling, everyone else uses their own staff or agents. Third, no other airlines or jobs have been put at risk because the others are unaffected by a BA strike. In fact I'd say the big boost in business to the competition probably secures their jobs.
G fiend:
Indeed they do, but only through legal strikes in this country, not through wildcat, unballoted actions like they could in the 20th century. As a previous poster said, they've handed the management their heads on a plate. If your company recognised unions deal with your management issues in an adult way then they're doing considerably better than the ultra-militant ground unions at BA who still believe they're living in the 70's.
Then their major airport grinds to a halt and they do nothing about it.
Why ? Because of the cosy relationship with BA. BA run the ground handling at T1.
Other airlines and other jobs have been put at risk because of this shameful act.
Why ? Because of the cosy relationship with BA. BA run the ground handling at T1.
Other airlines and other jobs have been put at risk because of this shameful act.
G fiend:
we are in the 21st century- people have the right to withdraw their labour when in dispute
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G-Fiend, very good points.
To everyone else out there with opinions on following the letter of the law with regard to striking, the whole point would have been lost if this was a planned operation. BA and its pax have been monumentally screwed by a rightly disgruntled workforce.
It is not just one or two workers who have planned this - all T1 groundstaff have joined in, their strength now is in their unity. If what is being said is true then standing up now will protect them from the kind of work schedule BA has in store. How on earth can you expect staff to come in on off days when its busy, and go home early on quiet days, taking the necessary drop in wages. This is no way to treat staff in any industry, and do not bring up 9/11, SARS and the Iraq conflict as any form of justification.
All eyes in the industry is on BA now. Swissport are trying to push through a similar scheme and they will undoubtably be watching what is happening now.
What BA are doing is standing up for themselves, showing the management what they are doing is fundamentally wrong. If this was done legally through the unions, the affect would have been less and the point not properly made. Management would then have pursued this and they would have been screwed. Even now, the outcome is not fully assured, but the staff have shown they are strong and BA need to decie whether to really pee them off more by proceeding with this dastardly plan.
Well Done BA staff. Other airline handling staff and airline ground staff are with you.
Stick together and be strong.
To everyone else out there with opinions on following the letter of the law with regard to striking, the whole point would have been lost if this was a planned operation. BA and its pax have been monumentally screwed by a rightly disgruntled workforce.
It is not just one or two workers who have planned this - all T1 groundstaff have joined in, their strength now is in their unity. If what is being said is true then standing up now will protect them from the kind of work schedule BA has in store. How on earth can you expect staff to come in on off days when its busy, and go home early on quiet days, taking the necessary drop in wages. This is no way to treat staff in any industry, and do not bring up 9/11, SARS and the Iraq conflict as any form of justification.
All eyes in the industry is on BA now. Swissport are trying to push through a similar scheme and they will undoubtably be watching what is happening now.
What BA are doing is standing up for themselves, showing the management what they are doing is fundamentally wrong. If this was done legally through the unions, the affect would have been less and the point not properly made. Management would then have pursued this and they would have been screwed. Even now, the outcome is not fully assured, but the staff have shown they are strong and BA need to decie whether to really pee them off more by proceeding with this dastardly plan.
Well Done BA staff. Other airline handling staff and airline ground staff are with you.
Stick together and be strong.
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This is how 'in touch' BA Management are with the feelings of their staff.
From Ananova
Story filed: 09:14 Saturday 19th July
Story filed: 10:17 Saturday 19th July
Remember we have to deal with these idiots on a daily basis.
From Ananova
Story filed: 09:14 Saturday 19th July
British Airways says there will be no further flight cancellations after an unofficial walkout left holidaymakers' plans in ruins.
Story filed: 10:17 Saturday 19th July
British Airways has cancelled domestic and European services going to and from Heathrow Airport Terminal One.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
...they've handed the management their heads on a plate.
The state of frustration on a WORLD-WIDE LEVEL, with self-serving management whose sole motivation is THEIR OWN "performance BONUS" - at the cost of ALL other staff - is being demonstrated by British Airways employees now.
Yes, we can all be replaced - and isn't THAT a grand threat/promise that so called "management" love to use.
Airlines are a "service industry" - not an ESSENTIAL service.
The fight is with the greedy, self-serving, upper level management who are destroying not only personal lives, but entire airlines to line their own nests.
The level of frustration at seeing one's long established place of employment destroyed by the GREED of just a few men/women in the upper level management ranks is not peculiar to B.A.
"Management" have become the waterlillies of airlines - multiplying at ever increasing rates, without ADDING productivity, but rather TAKING, whenever possible.
It's time to put an end to "performance bonuses" for management.
Pay them a flat salary, and like every other employee, if they underperform, SACK 'EM!!
There are plenty more with the same qualififcations standing in line, waiting for THEIR turn.
The state of frustration on a WORLD-WIDE LEVEL, with self-serving management whose sole motivation is THEIR OWN "performance BONUS" - at the cost of ALL other staff - is being demonstrated by British Airways employees now.
Yes, we can all be replaced - and isn't THAT a grand threat/promise that so called "management" love to use.
Airlines are a "service industry" - not an ESSENTIAL service.
The fight is with the greedy, self-serving, upper level management who are destroying not only personal lives, but entire airlines to line their own nests.
The level of frustration at seeing one's long established place of employment destroyed by the GREED of just a few men/women in the upper level management ranks is not peculiar to B.A.
"Management" have become the waterlillies of airlines - multiplying at ever increasing rates, without ADDING productivity, but rather TAKING, whenever possible.
It's time to put an end to "performance bonuses" for management.
Pay them a flat salary, and like every other employee, if they underperform, SACK 'EM!!
There are plenty more with the same qualififcations standing in line, waiting for THEIR turn.
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Ah! Hand Solo. We meet again. Strange world isn't it? (Preposition OK at end of question.)
BA allocate the stand slots for T1 and T4. BA have meoved a load of Gatwick flights to LHR causing much congestion at both T1 and T4 - have you seen the subject on P2 about T4/T1 congestion ?
There is undoubtedly a much too cosy relationship between BA & BAA - this has been shown up by the T5 debate, the R3 debate and the Noise debate. They both act as if they are still State owned and operated.
According to the news, there were cancellations of other airlines' flights out of T1 last night - but whether this was because of a staffing issue or jammed stands, I don't know.
I am simply appalled at the way BAA just stood back and did apparently nothing. For their REAL customers - the pax.
Think of the extra profit from the franchises - 7,000 folks sleeping in the terminal last night according to the BBC.
It's a crying shame. If I am wrong about BA doing handling & baggage for other airlines at T1, then I apologise. But you have to agree that the BAA-BA relationship has a helluvalot to do with this chaotic dispute.
BA allocate the stand slots for T1 and T4. BA have meoved a load of Gatwick flights to LHR causing much congestion at both T1 and T4 - have you seen the subject on P2 about T4/T1 congestion ?
There is undoubtedly a much too cosy relationship between BA & BAA - this has been shown up by the T5 debate, the R3 debate and the Noise debate. They both act as if they are still State owned and operated.
According to the news, there were cancellations of other airlines' flights out of T1 last night - but whether this was because of a staffing issue or jammed stands, I don't know.
I am simply appalled at the way BAA just stood back and did apparently nothing. For their REAL customers - the pax.
Think of the extra profit from the franchises - 7,000 folks sleeping in the terminal last night according to the BBC.
It's a crying shame. If I am wrong about BA doing handling & baggage for other airlines at T1, then I apologise. But you have to agree that the BAA-BA relationship has a helluvalot to do with this chaotic dispute.
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Yes, they have walked out of T4 - but it's only CDG and AMS that's affected. Perhaps this action will make management reconsider Project Iceberg moving l/h flights (JNB and NRT think) from T4 to T1?!
So this is definitely about iARM and the dispute over ATR (not the plane, but Automated Time Reporting). This is a system whereby people swipe in and out depending on their location. This info is then fed into the iARM db, and allows for more accurate manpower planning.
Remember that the unions are walking out because of their ** fears ** that they will be asked to work split shifts. They haven't even been asked to work split shifts! Nobody has said that ARE plans for split shifts!
G Fiend, I agree with your sentiments, but not your conclusions. It's clear that your own union/management relationship is good and well run. This is certainly not the case at T1. The unions there are (sorry to use the word) militant and certainly do NOT go the extra mile. The only extra miles the T1 staff went on Friday night were those between the terminal and their home!
Finally, Kaptin, sorry to ruin a good story with facts, re "fat cats" - but there were NO management bonuses this year (they kick in at 4% profitability, the company made 3.8%); there were NONE last year; and post 9/11 the senior managers took a pay-CUT.
(Now I'm not saying there aren't perhaps too many managers, but that's another story. Before you ask, I'm not one of them: I work in a role where, and out of 1 in every 3 weeks I am on 24/7 callout for no extra pay. So don't think I don't know about making sacrifices when times are hard).
BA is a company in real need of grave restructuring (the corporate debt is well over 4000000000 pounds!) and new working practices: of which ATR is just one of many. The Engineers are going to have to get used to it under the EWS project which includes an ATR element too.
I'm not saying that these ways of working should be enforced, they should be negotiated. But if you really can't negotiate any further, you set a DATE for strike action. Even French ATC'ers manage to do this! Their anger may be directed at management, but it's the pax who feel the effect, and when passengers get hurt they don't come back.
Final thought: where are you going to strike when you haven't got a job?
So this is definitely about iARM and the dispute over ATR (not the plane, but Automated Time Reporting). This is a system whereby people swipe in and out depending on their location. This info is then fed into the iARM db, and allows for more accurate manpower planning.
Remember that the unions are walking out because of their ** fears ** that they will be asked to work split shifts. They haven't even been asked to work split shifts! Nobody has said that ARE plans for split shifts!
G Fiend, I agree with your sentiments, but not your conclusions. It's clear that your own union/management relationship is good and well run. This is certainly not the case at T1. The unions there are (sorry to use the word) militant and certainly do NOT go the extra mile. The only extra miles the T1 staff went on Friday night were those between the terminal and their home!
Finally, Kaptin, sorry to ruin a good story with facts, re "fat cats" - but there were NO management bonuses this year (they kick in at 4% profitability, the company made 3.8%); there were NONE last year; and post 9/11 the senior managers took a pay-CUT.
(Now I'm not saying there aren't perhaps too many managers, but that's another story. Before you ask, I'm not one of them: I work in a role where, and out of 1 in every 3 weeks I am on 24/7 callout for no extra pay. So don't think I don't know about making sacrifices when times are hard).
BA is a company in real need of grave restructuring (the corporate debt is well over 4000000000 pounds!) and new working practices: of which ATR is just one of many. The Engineers are going to have to get used to it under the EWS project which includes an ATR element too.
I'm not saying that these ways of working should be enforced, they should be negotiated. But if you really can't negotiate any further, you set a DATE for strike action. Even French ATC'ers manage to do this! Their anger may be directed at management, but it's the pax who feel the effect, and when passengers get hurt they don't come back.
Final thought: where are you going to strike when you haven't got a job?
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foghorn
I find it most disturbing that in this day and age anyone is forced to work a 24 hour shift , the hospital management are using moral blackmail to keep your wife working these hours but if in a fatgued state she makes a mistake you wont see the management for dust as soon as the leagal stuff starts.
To a lesser extent the BA management is like this they push the workers on the front line very hard and this time they have pushed to hard and the workers have just got so p1$$ed off that they have walked out .
This shows to me just how out of touch the BA managment is with the workforce and how strong the feeling is amongst the workers on the ground.
I was in BA up to about ten years ago and I can tell you that no one walks off the job without thinking very hard about it after all they all have morgages to pay and kids to feed so it is my conclusion that the management have had there heads in the sand and have been beleaving there own PR for to long and have not been out of there offices on ayling island to see how the troops on the front line feel.
The bottom line is that this strike is due to the failure of the management to know the feelings of the staff and to deal with the problems in the usual industrial way.
To a lesser extent the BA management is like this they push the workers on the front line very hard and this time they have pushed to hard and the workers have just got so p1$$ed off that they have walked out .
This shows to me just how out of touch the BA managment is with the workforce and how strong the feeling is amongst the workers on the ground.
I was in BA up to about ten years ago and I can tell you that no one walks off the job without thinking very hard about it after all they all have morgages to pay and kids to feed so it is my conclusion that the management have had there heads in the sand and have been beleaving there own PR for to long and have not been out of there offices on ayling island to see how the troops on the front line feel.
The bottom line is that this strike is due to the failure of the management to know the feelings of the staff and to deal with the problems in the usual industrial way.
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Kaptin M
BA is an equity financed company. The management is directly appointed by the shareholders (the people who own the company) in order to maximise value and, in the current airline climate, to make sure the company doesn't go down the pan. Performance incentives to management mean that if they increase shareholder value they get rewarded for it. As long as we live in a capitalist society this will be the case.
The airline industry is not in good shape at the moment and costs need to be cut, a mature approach by the ground staff would be to accept that this is the case and realise that the cost-cutting is necessary in order to safeguard their jobs. If they feel some of the conditions to be unacceptable then they should negotiate in a mature way through their appointed union (who will be much better at it!).
Simply walking out and leaving so many customers in the lurch is irresponsible and childish and will ultimately be costly to them I am sure.
(p.s, i'm not actually rod eddington, i just admire the guy. i have absolutely no connection to BA)
BA is an equity financed company. The management is directly appointed by the shareholders (the people who own the company) in order to maximise value and, in the current airline climate, to make sure the company doesn't go down the pan. Performance incentives to management mean that if they increase shareholder value they get rewarded for it. As long as we live in a capitalist society this will be the case.
The airline industry is not in good shape at the moment and costs need to be cut, a mature approach by the ground staff would be to accept that this is the case and realise that the cost-cutting is necessary in order to safeguard their jobs. If they feel some of the conditions to be unacceptable then they should negotiate in a mature way through their appointed union (who will be much better at it!).
Simply walking out and leaving so many customers in the lurch is irresponsible and childish and will ultimately be costly to them I am sure.
(p.s, i'm not actually rod eddington, i just admire the guy. i have absolutely no connection to BA)
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Headsethair you feel like an old friend! BA do indeed allocate a lot of the stands for T1, but by no means all. As far as I am aware the terminal controllers have not walked off the job, the only problem is that our stranded aircraft may be blocking some of the stands. I don't think the disruption to other operators will be massive. In this instance I don't think there's very much BAA could do even if they wanted do. Far be it from me to defend BAA, they simply don't have legions of check-in staff and and baggage handlers trained in BA procedures to simply step in and take over should our staff walk out. Perhaps the best they could do would be to help set up some sort of hotel help desk to accommodate stranded passengers then bill BA. I don't think I've seen the thread about T4/T1 congestion, where is it? I'd certainly be surprised if LGW flights had been sent to LHR as there'd still be nobody to handle them. In summary, whilst I'm no fan of BAA I'm not sure that they could do much to help once our ground staff decided to screw us all and walk off the job.
A and C I can assure you the baggage handlers walk off the job with alarming regularity. Third time in the last 12 months. No surprises to see their militant hand in this debacle.
A and C I can assure you the baggage handlers walk off the job with alarming regularity. Third time in the last 12 months. No surprises to see their militant hand in this debacle.
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Many varied comments on here BUT for those of you who are continually bashing the ground staff - you are V wrong.
YOU CANNOT possibly comment on this unless you ARE BA frontline staff and you know what you are up against.
How would you feel if you worked for a company fulltime and they just pulled your hours out of the air ,and payed you accordingly.
They want to be able to just turn around to the staff and send them home when its quiet (so you come into work for 1 hour and get sent home) one day, and then the next keep you on for up to 16 hours.
You would never know what you are getting paid.
The style of management there is totally predatory at the moment and making life very hard for many people.
YOU CANNOT possibly comment on this unless you ARE BA frontline staff and you know what you are up against.
How would you feel if you worked for a company fulltime and they just pulled your hours out of the air ,and payed you accordingly.
They want to be able to just turn around to the staff and send them home when its quiet (so you come into work for 1 hour and get sent home) one day, and then the next keep you on for up to 16 hours.
You would never know what you are getting paid.
The style of management there is totally predatory at the moment and making life very hard for many people.
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Well done BA ground staff!
"Well Done BA staff. Other airline handling staff and airline ground staff are with you.
Stick together and be strong."
Working 12 hrs shift without a break and without being paid any overtime, it is simply unacceptable: this is now a normal practice among the airline industry.
Pay rates are redicolous.
The above does not apply to Cabin Crew, Pilots or Office based employees: this became the norm for ground staff only, especially front line staff.
This is not acceptable as in a front line environment is often a "continuous" emergency nowadays with delays, cancellations and so on. The "Emergency" issue as an excuse to squeeze staff cannot be applied anymore.
It is not a 12 hr shift like it would be in a "normal" office environment: if you work front line you cannot even go to the loo! You depend entirely on your Operations,second by second, minute by minute. It is crazy! Try it.
It is time to reconsider this aspect of ground staff Management, or even "officially" switch to a low cost ground service handling agent, and if this is the real management's objective, then this must be made clear, "tell them clearly" " do not play this game": ground agents are human being ( if you forgot) , people with their own lives, kids, plans, families, etc...they do have feelings and they are not just those numbers that our fat cats can view on their golden flat screens. AHHHHHHH!
Let them know what your plans are, do not play with real lives.
It was time to say: "Enough is enough!".
Well done boys and girls.
The bubble has been there for years...waiting to burst.
I have been talking to many ground staff employees and they have all said the same: working at LHR is crazy because conditions are non human.
Stick together and be strong."
Working 12 hrs shift without a break and without being paid any overtime, it is simply unacceptable: this is now a normal practice among the airline industry.
Pay rates are redicolous.
The above does not apply to Cabin Crew, Pilots or Office based employees: this became the norm for ground staff only, especially front line staff.
This is not acceptable as in a front line environment is often a "continuous" emergency nowadays with delays, cancellations and so on. The "Emergency" issue as an excuse to squeeze staff cannot be applied anymore.
It is not a 12 hr shift like it would be in a "normal" office environment: if you work front line you cannot even go to the loo! You depend entirely on your Operations,second by second, minute by minute. It is crazy! Try it.
It is time to reconsider this aspect of ground staff Management, or even "officially" switch to a low cost ground service handling agent, and if this is the real management's objective, then this must be made clear, "tell them clearly" " do not play this game": ground agents are human being ( if you forgot) , people with their own lives, kids, plans, families, etc...they do have feelings and they are not just those numbers that our fat cats can view on their golden flat screens. AHHHHHHH!
Let them know what your plans are, do not play with real lives.
It was time to say: "Enough is enough!".
Well done boys and girls.
The bubble has been there for years...waiting to burst.
I have been talking to many ground staff employees and they have all said the same: working at LHR is crazy because conditions are non human.
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Anti-ice I am BA frontline staff and if I'm going to walk off the job I'll wait until management have actually proposed change, the union has balloted its members and a legal strike has been authorised. I won't walk off the job on basis of getting the first blow in just in case management try to do something in the future. I know exactly how inept BA management can be and I've normally got a lot of time for the satff working in the terminals but now they're just taking the pi55.