TUI airways-2

[SJL26779]

TUI delays Sunday 18th June

Aberdeen to Tenerife looks like it's non operational?
Air Tanker operating PFO-LGW is still on the ground in PFO with an estimated departure time of 11.15am on Monday instead of 14.40 Sunday and BFS-TFS is now being operated by Getjet Monday instead of Sunday?

Anyone know any more?

[jethro15]

This is what I have as of 20 Jun

TUI Airways Leased Aircraft (jethroseu.co.uk)

Corrections / additions / deletions would be appreciated.

[Matt995]

Summer Aircraft 2023

TUI's planned summer timetable (based on August 2023) needs a total of 74 aircraft, but TUI Airways actual current fleet consists of 62 aircraft (will be 63 shortly)

the leased in aircraft for summer should be 15, 7 Sunwing 738's, 4 Avion Express A320's, 2 Titan A320's & 2 Smartlynx A320's

The bases should be:-

ABZ 1 B738, Sunwing
BFS 1 B738, Sunwing
BHX 1 B789, 2 B788's, 3 B7M8's, 3 B738s, & 2 B738's, Sunwing
BOH 1 B738
BRS 5 B7M8's
CWL 2 B738's, 1 B738, Sunwing
DUB 2 A320's, Avion Express
EMA 4 B738's, 1 B738, Sunwing
EXT 1 B738
GLA 2 B7M8's
GLA/NCL 1 B788 shared
LGW 2 B789's, 1 B788's, 3 B7M8's, 6 B738's, 1 A320, Titan, 2 A320's, Avion Express
LTN 1 B738
MAN 2 B789's, 2 B788's, 2 B763's, 3 B7M8's, 5 B738's, 2 A320's, Smartlynx
NCL 2 B7M8's, 2 B738's
NWI 1 B738, Sunwing
STN 1 B738, 1 A320, Titan

Spare TUI Aircraft, 2 B738, 1 B789 - They also have another B738 to join the fleet shortly, G-FDZR again, to help them out

So all the extra aircraft being used, GetJet, AirTanker, SmartLynx etc should only be short term cover, but again does it come down to TUI, not having another flight crew & cabin crew to cope with all these flights? After last year, I would have expected them to be better prepared

[Charley B]

Originally Posted by SJL26779

Aberdeen to Tenerife looks like it's non operational?
Air Tanker operating PFO-LGW is still on the ground in PFO with an estimated departure time of 11.15am on Monday instead of 14.40 Sunday and BFS-TFS is now being operated by Getjet Monday instead of Sunday?

Anyone know any more?

Air Tanker left LGW 3.5 hrs late on Sunday morning for PFO and crew ran out of hours ..read on Twitter that pax were being put in hotels and flight due back at lunchtime today …G-VGYK I think will then return to BZZ

[Vokes55]

Probably the same reason there were 112 cancelled flights into or out of LGW yesterday. Flow restrictions in the UK due to weather.

As soon as flow restrictions are imposed, scheduled airlines cancel flights and start fresh the next day with crew and aircraft in the right place, but thousands of passengers inconvenienced. EasyJet can say they’re all weather related cancellations, no compensation is due, book yourself onto the next available flight.

TUI delay the flight instead of cancelling which can cause a knock on to the next day/s. So you see delays and sub charters.

I’m not sure what the PPrune experts suggest they do otherwise?

[JonnyH]

Originally Posted by Matt995

TUI's planned summer timetable (based on August 2023) needs a total of 74 aircraft, but TUI Airways actual current fleet consists of 62 aircraft (will be 63 shortly)

the leased in aircraft for summer should be 15, 7 Sunwing 738's, 4 Avion Express A320's, 2 Titan A320's & 2 Smartlynx A320's

The bases should be:-

ABZ 1 B738, Sunwing
BFS 1 B738, Sunwing
BHX 1 B789, 2 B788's, 3 B7M8's, 3 B738s, & 2 B738's, Sunwing
BOH 1 B738
BRS 5 B7M8's
CWL 2 B738's, 1 B738, Sunwing
DUB 2 A320's, Avion Express
EMA 4 B738's, 1 B738, Sunwing
EXT 1 B738
GLA 2 B7M8's
GLA/NCL 1 B788 shared
LGW 2 B789's, 1 B788's, 3 B7M8's, 6 B738's, 1 A320, Titan, 2 A320's, Avion Express
LTN 1 B738
MAN 2 B789's, 2 B788's, 2 B763's, 3 B7M8's, 5 B738's, 2 A320's, Smartlynx
NCL 2 B7M8's, 2 B738's
NWI 1 B738, Sunwing
STN 1 B738, 1 A320, Titan

Spare TUI Aircraft, 2 B738, 1 B789 - They also have another B738 to join the fleet shortly, G-FDZR again, to help them out

So all the extra aircraft being used, GetJet, AirTanker, SmartLynx etc should only be short term cover, but again does it come down to TUI, not having another flight crew & cabin crew to cope with all these flights? After last year, I would have expected them to be better prepared

ABZ was a tech delay initially, tyre replacement apparently, before crew ran out of hours. Rescheduled for this afternoon.

[JonnyH]

Originally Posted by Vokes55

Probably the same reason there were 112 cancelled flights into or out of LGW yesterday. Flow restrictions in the UK due to weather.

As soon as flow restrictions are imposed, scheduled airlines cancel flights and start fresh the next day with crew and aircraft in the right place, but thousands of passengers inconvenienced. EasyJet can say they’re all weather related cancellations, no compensation is due, book yourself onto the next available flight.

TUI delay the flight instead of cancelling which can cause a knock on to the next day/s. So you see delays and sub charters.

I’m not sure what the PPrune experts suggest they do otherwise?

I think you’re looking at this with rose tinted glasses. LGW is not the only base in the UK quite clearly. NCL has had 5 3+ hour delayed flights
this weekend, BFS and ABZ both overnight delays and that’s without factoring in other bases.

Let’s be honest, early signs are they’ve learnt nothing from 2022, and if you’re a consumer you’re hardly going to be encouraged.

Someone has pointed out their shortfall in aircraft which will only get worse throughout the summer and then next year when their awful Sunwing partnership ends and they get rid of the 767s.

[Vokes55]

Flow management affects the entire airspace where adverse weather is expected, which yesterday was more or less the entire UK and most of northern France.

But you’re right, other airlines had mass cancellations from other U.K. airports too.

[SWBKCB]

Originally Posted by Vokes55

As soon as flow restrictions are imposed, scheduled airlines cancel flights and start fresh the next day with crew and aircraft in the right place, but thousands of passengers inconvenienced. EasyJet can say they’re all weather related cancellations, no compensation is due, book yourself onto the next available flight.

Having been a victim of this I've had it confirmed via relatives working within the airline, that this is exactly the way EasyJet work. Take the hit 'due to the weather' and preserve the next days schedule.

[Vokes55]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

Having been a victim of this I've had it confirmed via relatives working within the airline, that this is exactly the way EasyJet work. Take the hit 'due to the weather' and preserve the next days schedule.

They, and Ryanair, have been doing it for years. Whenever there’s a reason to cancel whereby no compensation is due - strike action is another one - cancel as many flights as possible. Keep aircraft and crew in base, preserve crew hours in the Summer peak.

The way EU/UK261 works means that any knock on delay the following day cannot be blamed on weather - it’s seen as the airline’s responsibility to have enough standby crew and aircraft available.

If TUI delay a flight to the next day for any reason, they need an extra aircraft and crew to operate it without impacting that day’s schedule. So that’s why you’ll see a subcharter operating many of them - nothing to do with an aircraft or crew shortage.

[JonnyH]

Originally Posted by Vokes55

They, and Ryanair, have been doing it for years. Whenever there’s a reason to cancel whereby no compensation is due - strike action is another one - cancel as many flights as possible. Keep aircraft and crew in base, preserve crew hours in the Summer peak.

The way EU/UK261 works means that any knock on delay the following day cannot be blamed on weather - it’s seen as the airline’s responsibility to have enough standby crew and aircraft available.

If TUI delay a flight to the next day for any reason, they need an extra aircraft and crew to operate it without impacting that day’s schedule. So that’s why you’ll see a subcharter operating many of them - nothing to do with an aircraft or crew shortage.

You’re talking about one day. What about the other 17 dry days this month?

[Vokes55]

Originally Posted by JonnyH

You’re talking about one day. What about the other 17 dry days this month?

What about them?

[JonnyH]

Originally Posted by Vokes55

What about them?

You know fine well what I mean. You mentioned flow management and other airlines cancelling. Clearly, LGW was. But BFS and ABZ were not.

Asides from one day anyways, why can’t you just accept that Summer 23, so far, has been no different to last year and it’s a complete mess again? I don’t expect you to bash your employer but you could at least be honest.

[OliTom]

TUI senior management haven't learnt anything from Summer 2022. Same mistakes being made this year, over reliance on brand damaging third party and demotivated and often ignored workforce.

Good luck all.

[Vokes55]

Originally Posted by JonnyH

You know fine well what I mean. You mentioned flow management and other airlines cancelling. Clearly, LGW was. But BFS and ABZ were not.

Asides from one day anyways, why can’t you just accept that Summer 23, so far, has been no different to last year and it’s a complete mess again? I don’t expect you to bash your employer but you could at least be honest.

A little geography lesson might show you that anything that flies from BFS or ABZ to the majority of Europe would overfly the rest of the UK and/or Northern France, that was subject to flow management. I don’t expect you to have any knowledge of FTLs so I won’t waste my time touching on that issue either.

Do humour me, what’s been a “complete mess” this year? And please use facts and statistics. Tell me how many TUI passengers have been delayed over three hours this Summer as a percentage of the total and in comparison to both other airlines and last year?

[chaps1954]

I don`t think TUI have shone very well this summer at either MAN or BHX with many subs at both stations

[JonnyH]

Originally Posted by Vokes55

A little geography lesson might show you that anything that flies from BFS or ABZ to the majority of Europe would overfly the rest of the UK and/or Northern France, that was subject to flow management. I don’t expect you to have any knowledge of FTLs so I won’t waste my time touching on that issue either.

Do humour me, what’s been a “complete mess” this year? And please use facts and statistics. Tell me how many TUI passengers have been delayed over three hours this Summer as a percentage of the total and in comparison to both other airlines and last year?

Oh! The same area that their major leisure competitor also flies over who had far less disruption? It’s easy to push a narrative for one day but when you’ve been absolute sh*te since the summer began, it’s far less easy to argue

You keep going back to the one day of bad weather we have had this month to push your agenda that TUI are reliable. They aren’t. They’re awful. You can compare to FR or EZY but this is a TUI thread.

The thread has numerous comments providing issues, delays etc. If you want an example maybe have a look at Aberdeen. It’ll be easier to spot the flights this month that were delayed rather than on time though.

If you are arguing that they don’t have a dependence on third parties and customer satisfaction is good, you’re on a different planet. You’re the one that clearly needs humoured unfortunately given C-GBZS, that was delayed due to bad weather according to you, is currently still on the ground in BFS after being due to operate this morning.

MAN, BHX, ABZ, BFS all terrible. NCL awful the latter part of this week.

[Vokes55]

As expected, not a single fact or statistic.

That competitor you speak about had four 3+ hour delays (LS948, 984, 898 and 172) into Manchester in the last 24 hours, compared to just two for TUI (TOM2731 and 2751) - including one almost 24 hour delay (LS984 from BJV).

Facts and statistics don’t seem to support your narrative.

[737James]

As others have mentioned some strange operations at Birmingham this Summer season like planned 787 flights being a split onto two 738s one of which is ACMI aircraft when the 787 is sitting on the ground serviceable . Similar things happening with 738s with Tui tailed aircraft sitting on the ground but then using GetJet for 4 flights a day often for the longer Cyprus and Turkey routes.

I can only assume they have some crewing issues at Birmingham this year and are struggling to Crew all the flights

[JonnyH]

Originally Posted by Vokes55

As expected, not a single fact or statistic.

That competitor you speak about had four 3+ hour delays (LS948, 984, 898 and 172) into Manchester in the last 24 hours, compared to just two for TUI (TOM2731 and 2751) - including one almost 24 hour delay (LS984 from BJV).

Facts and statistics don’t seem to support your narrative.

You’re using one airport. The one that fits your narrative. Here is multiple airports that aren’t even weather related in the last 24 hours.

ABZ - TFS flight delayed by 24 hours. Not weather related.
BFS - TFS flight delayed by 24 hours. Not weather related. DLM flight delayed (currently 5 hours). Not weather related.
NCL - AYT. Flight delayed by 15 hours. Not weather related.
LGW-PFO - not weather related. G-VYGK subbed in.

Add this to countless other delays over the month. Aberdeen, for example, is on time less than a third of the time. TUI had a 60% chance of delay last summer and I’d be surprised if it’s any lower this summer.

I’ll put some stats together in due course for this month overall.

As others have mentioned, there are issues with crew. Tech issues and no aircraft or crew to move around.