TUI airways-2
Some will be those redeployed from DSA
Fit like min?
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But always subject to change of course…
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I wonder if they are anticipating the 737-max10 fleet starting to be delivered in time for S24 operations. Otherwise, they're going to be scrapping around for aircraft.
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Otherwise I agree, scrapping round for aircraft is an understatement. They’ve already got rid of a number of 737-8’s over this winter so they must be hedging their bets on max deliveries if no contingencies are in place.
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The CEO of TUI said in an interview that the TUI group fleet of A/C are flexible now across the board. Could we see Nordic, Belgian or German a/c fly for TUI UK in S24 much like SE-RFZ has been doing the last two summers. Surely there will be some spare capacity across the whole group to help out.
Otherwise I agree, scrapping round for aircraft is an understatement. They’ve already got rid of a number of 737-8’s over this winter so they must be hedging their bets on max deliveries if no contingencies are in place.
Otherwise I agree, scrapping round for aircraft is an understatement. They’ve already got rid of a number of 737-8’s over this winter so they must be hedging their bets on max deliveries if no contingencies are in place.
maybe a large lease of aircraft from
Smartlynx and Avion
TUI 737 -10 orders >? (aka 737 MAX -10)
TUI UK have a lot of the 230 seat 737 -10's on order -
They are now badly delayed by years - they should have been in service in 2021 to begin to replace all of the 757's.
I'm not sure if TUI's current order of 16 aircraft has even been built yet.
No idea if Boeing is going to get the -10 (B3XM) approved or not - if not, then TUI may have to stick with converting the orders back to the 189 seat B738M,
or to go for new orders for the A321N and/or the NXLR.
The -10 has still to obtain the 'grandfather' rights of the 737 family - But it may not - and if not, then Boeing either has to make some revisions to flightdeck alerting systems and get recertification which means existing pilots cannot fly it without new Sim and Line training (which Boeing had guaranteed existing 737 airlines that this would not be needed when the MAX project was launched) or Boeing has to scrap the project.
The 737 MAX -10 Certification has been delayed by slower processes following the FAAs tightening of procedures following the two MAX accidents.
This has delayed any expected certification date to late 2023 which is after the FAAs 27 Dec 2022 deadline after which all newly certified transport aircraft types require a "flight crew alerting system".
Boeing is challenging the need for the 737-10 to have such a system as it would make it significantly different from other 737 models.
Also it remains to be seen that for W23/24 and for S24 the Sunwing/Westjet lease deal will continue again.
This past winter saw TUI UK B738M's go to Canada as well as B738's.
It is notable that there are quite a few new ACMI airlines starting up in various parts of Europe, and Eastern Europe - obviously they see the market there.
IMHO even if the -10 is approved, we will not see them with TUI in 2024.
They are now badly delayed by years - they should have been in service in 2021 to begin to replace all of the 757's.
I'm not sure if TUI's current order of 16 aircraft has even been built yet.
No idea if Boeing is going to get the -10 (B3XM) approved or not - if not, then TUI may have to stick with converting the orders back to the 189 seat B738M,
or to go for new orders for the A321N and/or the NXLR.
The -10 has still to obtain the 'grandfather' rights of the 737 family - But it may not - and if not, then Boeing either has to make some revisions to flightdeck alerting systems and get recertification which means existing pilots cannot fly it without new Sim and Line training (which Boeing had guaranteed existing 737 airlines that this would not be needed when the MAX project was launched) or Boeing has to scrap the project.
The 737 MAX -10 Certification has been delayed by slower processes following the FAAs tightening of procedures following the two MAX accidents.
This has delayed any expected certification date to late 2023 which is after the FAAs 27 Dec 2022 deadline after which all newly certified transport aircraft types require a "flight crew alerting system".
Boeing is challenging the need for the 737-10 to have such a system as it would make it significantly different from other 737 models.
Also it remains to be seen that for W23/24 and for S24 the Sunwing/Westjet lease deal will continue again.
This past winter saw TUI UK B738M's go to Canada as well as B738's.
It is notable that there are quite a few new ACMI airlines starting up in various parts of Europe, and Eastern Europe - obviously they see the market there.
IMHO even if the -10 is approved, we will not see them with TUI in 2024.
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Suppose these CEOs get courted for visits all the time. How old are the oldest 738’s now? Still have 737-10’s to be delivered.
Something and nothing would be my feeling at this point.
I was told many years ago by somebody in Britannia's planning department - selling the seats is the hard part, we can over always find aircraft.
Also is it confirmed that the Sunwings deal is off - thought they were going to be run as an arms lengthbody, and the fundamentals of seasonal demand don't change.
I agree - and what are the odds of getting 321's of the line anytime soon?
Also is it confirmed that the Sunwings deal is off - thought they were going to be run as an arms lengthbody, and the fundamentals of seasonal demand don't change.
Suppose these CEOs get courted for visits all the time. How old are the oldest 738’s now? Still have 737-10’s to be delivered.
Something and nothing would be my feeling at this point.
Something and nothing would be my feeling at this point.
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To put the A320 history into context here with TUI musings about any new order -
Excalibur Airways' Airbus A320-200's were the first operator to hit the UK charter market with the new type in 1992 - and look where we have come since then.
Soon after Excalibur, almost everyone who was already a 757 and/or a 737 operator had dipped their toes with the then new A320;
Often just with one or two examples at first - Owners Abroad/Air 2000, IEA, Inspirations Holidays/Caledonian, Leisure International, Ambassador Airlines, and of course Britannia Airways.
Monarch joined in too with a small fleet starting from 1993.
Airtours International took over IEA in 1993 inheriting their two A320 and soon AIH ordered a sole new A320 in their own right, and they then obtained more A320's through Danish partner Conair/Premiair and that saw off their MD-83 fleet. AIH also leased the Excalibur A320's after they went under.
Airworld was an early A320 operator, subsequently, being the in-house charter airline of Thomas Cook, Airworld, adopted the Flying Colours Airlines brand.
Leisure International was bought by Air 2000, and Caledonian Airways was merged into Thomas Cook's new airline brand along with Airworld and Flying Colours to become JMC Air.
I can maybe foresee a 'seachange' at TUI and the A321N's could be part of an order if the Boeing debacle continues, although the B738M has shown and continues to be popular, but notwithstanding the pretty poor show of 787 reliability last summer which saw some sustainable work subbed out to other airlines in the height of the season to keep the long haul operation going.
The TUI 787's seem to be rather long in the tooth and resale prospects look patchy.
For long-haul, many of the European Charters airlines are going with the latest A330-900NEO type, and some with the high density A350.
TUI would be 'back of the queue' for any big Airbus order though, unless there are airfarmes unallocated still not snapped up having been idle due to the economic downturn and Russia etc.
Last edited by rog747; 22nd Apr 2023 at 10:30.
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Not sure I could agree the 787’s are long in the tooth. A Tower Air 747-100 is long in the tooth. A 4 year old modern tech 789 will have 20 years plus in it if they were anything like the 767s. Not sure eg a A330neo brings anything new to the table.
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I don’t think the 787’s were particularly unreliable last year, in fact they seemed to cope with the enforced storage brought on by Covid surprisingly well. The big problem was disruption to the maintenance schedule and then scheduled maintenance over-running due to a lack of parts caused by disruption in the supply chain. This meant there was little spare capacity in the system so that when big delays occurred aircraft were subbed in to restore the program.