Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Gatwick-3

Old 24th Mar 2023, 08:01
  #1061 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not so many places currently
Age: 60
Posts: 3,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by LGS6753
Sky Express applied for (unavailable) slots at LTN before deciding on Gatwick. They operated a brief series LTN-ATH in December 2022.
The Blue Air slots at Luton will come up for sale at some point, remembering how much the Monarch ones went for they won't be cheap if Sky Express are still interested, I think they are 5 sets most days. A chance there but Wizzair, Easyjet & Ryanair (maybe El Al) will have their eyes on them.
pabely is online now  
Old 24th Mar 2023, 12:01
  #1062 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EDI, LHR, NQY
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by nguba
I have wondered whether the Airbus A321LR/XLR would work for BA at LGW in opening up new long haul leisure routes.
It puzzles me that IAG can see the benefit of these aircraft for Aer Lingus at DUB and MAN but not for BA even though they would be ideal for thinner long-haul and solve the mid-haul product problem eg LHR to CAI, AMM etc.
ajamieson is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2023, 12:29
  #1063 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not so many places currently
Age: 60
Posts: 3,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ajamieson
It puzzles me that IAG can see the benefit of these aircraft for Aer Lingus at DUB and MAN but not for BA even though they would be ideal for thinner long-haul and solve the mid-haul product problem eg LHR to CAI, AMM etc.
CAI & AMM are not LH, these can be done with standard 321, need extra capacity not miles. 772 Maybe.
pabely is online now  
Old 24th Mar 2023, 12:29
  #1064 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Italy
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Travel24
I’ve found the same. Does anyone have any clarification about Lufthansa cutting Gatwick flights.
I've just tried doing a mock booking for LGW-FRA on their website and they're definitely still running at 2 daily with the A320. Only change I see is that they will no longer operate to/from the South terminal as originally filed.
JW95 is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2023, 08:36
  #1065 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 964
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by JW95
No doubt that BA are in expansion mode at LGW, which is brilliant to see, considering there was speculation just under 2 years ago that the airline could have ditched LGW entirely like Virgin did. Luckily, it didn't and have signalled a clear intention to focus more on LGW going forwards. In saying this, I do think expansion will be more gradual. As has been mentioned, the early retirement of the 744s in 2020 has now resulted in a shortage of long haul aircraft for the airline, meaning that any additional LHR hand-me-down 777s destined for LGW will have to wait until the delivery of more 787s, A350s and the new 777-9. I wonder if in addition to the 772, we will eventually see some of the 77Ws at Gatwick? BA have never to date provided a clear answer as to what the eventual fleet replacement of the LGW 772 fleet will be.
I'm actually surprised that they haven't been a bit more proactive on this up until now. Almost the whole 777-200ER fleet is over 20 years old, so I thought they'd have got in long term orders by this point. I would suspect these would be replaced by variants of the 787 longer term.
Dannyboy39 is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2023, 12:52
  #1066 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Italy
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dannyboy39
I'm actually surprised that they haven't been a bit more proactive on this up until now. Almost the whole 777-200ER fleet is over 20 years old, so I thought they'd have got in long term orders by this point. I would suspect these would be replaced by variants of the 787 longer term.
I am as well. Granted, it wasn't long ago (2018) when BA densified the LGW 772 fleet, but even so, they are ageing and will need replacing in the medium term. From a competitive stand position, BA need to invest in new a/c for LGW, especially when other carriers at Gatwick are operating far newer aircraft on long haul routes, including the 787-8 (AI, QR), 787-9 (TUI, Z0, QH, SV), A339 (MK) and A359 (MK).

My thinking is that IAG will eventually place a new aircraft order dedicated to LGW fleet renewal, as the current order of 787s, A350s and 77X is primarily dedicated to an LHR-wide fleet renewal. I reckon that the A350-900 could be a perfect, like-for-like fleet replacement for LGW long haul, plus BA would always be free to densify following recent airbus modifications should they wish. I'm unsure about a 787 order for Gatwick, as it would be more difficult to accommodate a 3-4-3 Y layout if BA wished to do so. Alternatively, they could order a batch of 77W, which again could be densified easily (and has already been done so by the vast majority of airlines operating the 777-300ER). The A350-900 is a fantastic aircraft to fly on, so it would be good seeing it in BA colours at LGW eventually.
JW95 is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2023, 11:34
  #1067 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not so many places currently
Age: 60
Posts: 3,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hopefully a one off and this is not going to be an issue with Easter coming up
http://BBC News - Gatwick Airport 'r...ussex-65075418
pabely is online now  
Old 26th Mar 2023, 16:41
  #1068 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Age: 42
Posts: 1,559
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JW95
My thinking is that IAG will eventually place a new aircraft order dedicated to LGW fleet renewal, as the current order of 787s, A350s and 77X is primarily dedicated to an LHR-wide fleet renewal. I reckon that the A350-900 could be a perfect, like-for-like fleet replacement. The A350-900 is a fantastic aircraft to fly on, so it would be good seeing it in BA colours at LGW eventually.
BA haven't put a new long haul machine into LGW since G-VIIO/P/R were delivered as DC10 replacements. They also had a handful of late build B744s delivered to LGW via CBG but BA always always do hand me downs. There was talk of new NEOs for LGW and they got ex Wizz Air CEOs instead as Finance said "No". CAPEX is all about LHR, LGW is the poor relation, that's why they can't make money on short haul or regions, the only thing BA "get", is hub and spoke at LHR. And even LGW long haul is crewed by LHR pilots. On one level you're right, but I can't see them spending the money. I'd expect LHR B77Ws in about ten years time to make the trip round the M25....
Skipness One Foxtrot is online now  
Old 26th Mar 2023, 16:47
  #1069 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,370
Received 356 Likes on 207 Posts
Skipness is right

BA have NEVER put any value on LGW operations - they'd far rather it died and everyone had to schelp over to LHR
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2023, 18:42
  #1070 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Crawley, West Sussex
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JW95
I've just tried doing a mock booking for LGW-FRA on their website and they're definitely still running at 2 daily with the A320. Only change I see is that they will no longer operate to/from the South terminal as originally filed.
So, have they switched to the North Terminal then?
FlyGatwick is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2023, 20:17
  #1071 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Crawley, West Sussex
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Air India London Ops (LHR & LGW)

Originally Posted by JW95
I'm a little sceptical about Air Asia. The route landscape from LON-KUL today is far different to that to when D7 last served STN, and later, LGW 10 years ago, in that there are far more connections and airline choice available to passengers should they wish to travel to Kuala Lumpur. I remember that towards the end of D7's time at LGW, the price difference compared to travelling on a full service carrier was not that big compared to Air Asia fares, and naturally, more people would have been tempted to fly those carriers (e.g. EK, QR et al.) on a long haul journey instead. Plus they would be going up against MH's twice daily service from LHR, that offers a solid A350 product. So I am really unconvinced Air Asia will re-enter the London market any time soon, especially with their A339s not arriving until at least 2026.

I do however see Cathay Pacific returning to LGW once the LHR operation is back up to peak capacity- and progress towards achieving this is already increasing, with CX offering up to the pre-covid 5 rotations per day from April. On the occasions I flew LGW-HKG with Cathay, the ground staff mentioned that this had become a good route for the airline since it was re-launched in 2016, with frequent overbooking occurring in the summer months. When this will happen, I'm not sure, but I'd reasonably bet that CX will likely look to re-introduce LGW at some stage next year.

Air Zimbabwe - previously served LGW on-and-off over the years. Given their financial situation, I'm unsure whether they are in a position to re-open LGW.

Ghana Airlines - I think has previously served LGW many years ago, are more likely to come to Gatwick over LHR.
Re your statement AI having left major Indian cities like BLR and CCU without a direct London link.

To the best of my knowledge, AI actually do fly to BLR from LHR. Apart from the 4 (mainly VFR-oriented) routes they did transfer to LGW effective today, the only direct route they dropped (ex-LHR) and haven't reinstated is HYD. (HYD like BLR is a centre for the IT and other high tech industries in the Deccan peninsula of southern India). The 3 weekly pairs of slots AI's LHR-HYD service was using at the LHR end have been repurposed to expand AI's LHR-DEL schedule I believe. DEL is going to be India's (and the entire subcontinent's) first global hub. Following the completion of the merger between UK and AI some time next year, the UK slots at LHR (I believe for a daily LHR-DEL and a daily LHR-BOM service although not commonly timed) should then become available for use by AI as well, allowing them to boost LHR-BOM frequency to 3 daily round-trips and LHR--DEL to up to 4 daily round-trips.) If AI wants to realise its stated ambition of [re]capturing 30% of all international air traffic from and to India, the best way to do this is to transform itself into the 4th global super connector (after EK, QR and TK), even if this risks bringing AI into open conflict with other Star Alliance members, especially LH who still seem to think that the whole world owes them a living and should therefore be compelled to feed their hubs at FRA and MUC. If AI will go down the global super connector route with DEL taking on the role of its global super hub, I believe that medium-term, AI will complement LHR-DEL with LGW-DEL and possibly STN-DEL as well, just like EK has simultaneously served LHR as well as LGW from its global super hub in DXB for at least the past 30 years (now replicating this at STN as well), probably starting with LGW-DEL first, possibly as soon as 2025, initially with a single daily service, to which a 2nd (and eventually a 3rd) daily rotation could be added subsequently to tie in with AI's banks of connecting flights at its DEL super hub. Doing this at LGW before replicating at STN would also make connercial sense as AI will already have a station at LGW, where additional activity will help spread overheads over a bigger revenue base. In addition to linking LGW to AI's (hopefully) forthcoming DEL super hub, from my perspective, there is also a solid business case for adding a daily LGW-BLR service given the number of IT professionals hailing from BLR working in various companies in LGW's catchment, not only incl. Crawley (and the town's main business area in Manor Royal), but in Horsham (primarily at the Royal Sun Alliance global headquarters), East Grinstead, Horley, Brighton and Croydon) and who until now have been using EK (to a lesser extent BA / QR) ex-LGW to "commute" to / from BLR, changing flights in DXB / DOH an route. A daily LGW-BLR service complementing the existing LHR-BLR service would also give AI 2 daily LON-BLR flights. This frequency could eventually be further expanded (from both LHR - slot availability permitting - and LGW) should AI choose to make BLR its main regional hub for southern India as well as its 2nd global hub given its stated desire to establish multiple hubs across India as also a "geopolitical insurance policy" aganst Pakistan closing its airspace to Indian airlines at any given time as efficient flight routings to all destinations west of DEL do require the use of Pakistani airspace, which isn't the case as far as BLR (as well as BOM, HYD and MAA and any other southern and southwestern Indian cities are concerned). And once Mumbai's 2nd airport at Navi Mumbai (New Bombay) is up and running it could become AI's 3rd global hub as it won't face the physical restrictions of BOM - primarily that like LGW it is configured for one-runway operation as its 2 runways intersect each other and therefore can't be used simultaneously, a constraint not conducive to operating an omnidirectional global hub as BA's past experience at LGW attests. While CCU could plausibly be turned into AI's regional northeastern hub, Kolkata, the city that was the original capital of the British Raj when it was known as Calcutta, is - by Indian standards - an economic backwater compared with the likes of Mumbai, Bangalore, Hyderabad, the National Capital Region (which includes Delhi) and even Chennai (the former main southern administrative centre of the Raj when it was still known as Madras).
On a different but LGW-related note, another plausible long-haul prospect for LGW in my opinion is Premia Air, a new(ish?) South Korean hybrid airline somewhat similar to Bamboo Air of Vietnam (which started flying to LGW last year, from both Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi). Like Bamboo, Premia uses Boeing 787-9s on its long-haul routes and has already started flying tgese aircraft to FRA (its first European destination).
FlyGatwick is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2023, 21:49
  #1072 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Italy
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
BA haven't put a new long haul machine into LGW since G-VIIO/P/R were delivered as DC10 replacements. They also had a handful of late build B744s delivered to LGW via CBG but BA always always do hand me downs. There was talk of new NEOs for LGW and they got ex Wizz Air CEOs instead as Finance said "No". CAPEX is all about LHR, LGW is the poor relation, that's why they can't make money on short haul or regions, the only thing BA "get", is hub and spoke at LHR. And even LGW long haul is crewed by LHR pilots. On one level you're right, but I can't see them spending the money. I'd expect LHR B77Ws in about ten years time to make the trip round the M25....
Yes, LGW has always sadly played out as the poor relation to LHR - however, they have clearly indicated that their focus is on LGW as far as current expansion is concerned, and no doubt they are wary that any scaling back of operations/non-use of slots will serve to only strengthen the position of LCCs at LGW, mainly EZY and to a lesser extent, Wizz. I'm sure that this is the last thing they would want, as this would almost be a replay of when BA began scaling back its operation post 9/11, which of course signalled the beginning of the rise of EZY at LGW.

With regards to the LGW fleet, surely BA will not continue to operate the 772 when they turn 30 years old and beyond that? Surely they will need to come to a fleet replacement decision soon, even if it is a matter of buying far younger, second-hand 77Ws offloaded by Emirates/Etihad for instance?
JW95 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2023, 07:31
  #1073 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,370
Received 356 Likes on 207 Posts
"surely BA will not continue to operate the 772 when they turn 30 years old and beyond that?"

whats so magical about 30 years old? It's probably far cheaper to upgrade the cabin than to buy replacements
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2023, 08:14
  #1074 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: .
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It will be interesting to see where the 737 MAXs IAG have on order go. If (and it seems a big if) they go to BA then I guess LHR would be the preferred base and then that would allow some second hand aircraft to move to Gatwick. I think BA at Gatwick will remain 772s and the 320 family for a while yet.
cavokblues is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2023, 09:28
  #1075 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Italy
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Asturias56
"surely BA will not continue to operate the 772 when they turn 30 years old and beyond that?"

whats so magical about 30 years old? It's probably far cheaper to upgrade the cabin than to buy replacements
Nothing specifically haha, I guess that would be pretty major as far as a passenger aircraft is concerned, plus I'm unsure if BA have extended the life of their aircraft this far previously - I don't recall any of their 747s - (100/200/400) being in service for that long
JW95 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2023, 09:30
  #1076 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Italy
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FlyGatwick
So, have they switched to the North Terminal then?
Correct - I remember seeing on their website that they were to operate to/from the South Terminal initially; perhaps GIP relocated them to the North owing to shortage of space in the South Terminal?
JW95 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2023, 14:58
  #1077 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,370
Received 356 Likes on 207 Posts
as of Oct 2022:-

To put it succinctly, the oldest aircraft flying for British Airways these days are the airline's Boeing 777-200ERs. After fully phasing out its non-ER 777-200s in August 2020, the airline's oldest group of jets are the 43 777-200ERs, which average 23 years of age

The absolute oldest at the moment is the aircraft registered G-VIIA. This jet was delivered in July of 1997 and is now 26 years old. The majority of these aircraft arrived between mid-1997 and October 2001. This was followed by a smaller batch of deliveries in 2009.

Despite their status as the oldest aircraft in the fleet, British Airways put this fleet through an extensive cabin refurbishment process between 2019 and 2021. Thus, passengers stepping aboard the jets will find the airline's latest Club suites in business class, as well as newly fitted premium and economy seating as well.

According to the comprehensive PlaneSpotters log, the oldest commercial aircraft (2020) registered in the United Kingdom still listed as “active” is a Boeing 757-200 aircraft, operated by Jet2. This plane, with registration G-LSAG, has been operating for more than 32 years, since 1987. The aircraft was first operated by the Civil Aviation Administration of China in 1987 before being delivered to China Southern Airlines in 1990. Jet2 took delivery of the aircraft in 2006. But Loganair were operating a 40 year old Twotter at that time
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2023, 15:31
  #1078 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: U.K
Posts: 782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cavokblues
It will be interesting to see where the 737 MAXs IAG have on order go. If (and it seems a big if) they go to BA then I guess LHR would be the preferred base and then that would allow some second hand aircraft to move to Gatwick. I think BA at Gatwick will remain 772s and the 320 family for a while yet.
They’re unlikely to be part of a LHR operation, assuming they do go to BA. The lack of containerised load holding would not be in fitting with LHR’s Ops. Officially, they’re bound for Vueling. I, however do not see that happening as VY have a large Airbus fleet and I don’t see that having a small Boeing fleet would be in their interests. More likely, if I were a betting man, I’d say they’re Euroflyer bound judging by the size of the order which would be a perfect fit for a stand alone operation.
The96er is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2023, 16:06
  #1079 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 3,062
Received 245 Likes on 138 Posts
Asturias56,

I imagine you were thinking only of PAX aircraft, however DHL Air 757 G-BMRA has not long turned 36, in February this year.
ATNotts is online now  
Old 27th Mar 2023, 16:46
  #1080 (permalink)  
Alba Gu Brath
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Merseyside
Age: 55
Posts: 738
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Asturias56
as of Oct 2022:-
According to the comprehensive PlaneSpotters log, the oldest commercial aircraft (2020) registered in the United Kingdom still listed as “active” is a Boeing 757-200 aircraft, operated by Jet2. This plane, with registration G-LSAG, has been operating for more than 32 years, since 1987. The aircraft was first operated by the Civil Aviation Administration of China in 1987 before being delivered to China Southern Airlines in 1990. Jet2 took delivery of the aircraft in 2006. But Loganair were operating a 40 year old Twotter at that time
G-LSAG was WFU at Kemble in late 2019
Big Tudor is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.