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Gatwick-3

Old 21st Mar 2023, 15:19
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Sky Express applied for (unavailable) slots at LTN before deciding on Gatwick. They operated a brief series LTN-ATH in December 2022.
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Old 21st Mar 2023, 16:20
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Originally Posted by True Blue
I checked Air China for 10th June. They have flights showing to Pek for both Lgw and Lhr. And that is the position to end of October as far as I can see. So are they keeping both?
The bilateral theory is from Sean M and twitter. ACL doesn't list any slot movements out of LHR for Air China so far as I can see so not sure what the current slot holding at LHR is for them....
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Old 21st Mar 2023, 19:25
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Originally Posted by Travel24
The difference between what airlines seem to be doing now and before is vast. I get what your saying about Air China, however I believe they will switch to Gatwick- Shanghai when British Airways starts Beijing again. With Air India they have also left out major cities such as Bangalore, Kolkata etc so when or if air india get more slots at Heathrow they might introduce these at Gatwick. Saudia asked for 2 daily flights from Gatwick this summer and only got 1 daily so I think they could be permanently at Gatwick.

With Air Mauritius, yes the airport charges are too high and they didn't get enough slots, however they would never have transferred their London operations if airlines like delta etc didn't announce flights here. With Sky Express transferring from Heathrow to Gatwick, yes they were leasing a slot however they are doing exactly the same at Gatwick.

I know its not longhaul but Lufthansa starting flights at Gatwick is massive especially when its to its core base Frankfurt. Now I mentioned this a few days ago, but airlines likely to announce operations in the next six months I believe.

China Eastern- Shanghai. They hold more slots at Gatwick than Heathrow.
Air Asia- Kuala Lumpar
Air Tanzania- Dar es Salaam
China Southern- Wuhan

These might not happen but I would say at least two of these will. Other Airlines that might- LATAM, Azul, Uganda Airlines, Ghana Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Air Zimbabwe, Star Air, Air Senegal.
I'm a little sceptical about Air Asia. The route landscape from LON-KUL today is far different to that to when D7 last served STN, and later, LGW 10 years ago, in that there are far more connections and airline choice available to passengers should they wish to travel to Kuala Lumpur. I remember that towards the end of D7's time at LGW, the price difference compared to travelling on a full service carrier was not that big compared to Air Asia fares, and naturally, more people would have been tempted to fly those carriers (e.g. EK, QR et al.) on a long haul journey instead. Plus they would be going up against MH's twice daily service from LHR, that offers a solid A350 product. So I am really unconvinced Air Asia will re-enter the London market any time soon, especially with their A339s not arriving until at least 2026.

I do however see Cathay Pacific returning to LGW once the LHR operation is back up to peak capacity- and progress towards achieving this is already increasing, with CX offering up to the pre-covid 5 rotations per day from April. On the occasions I flew LGW-HKG with Cathay, the ground staff mentioned that this had become a good route for the airline since it was re-launched in 2016, with frequent overbooking occurring in the summer months. When this will happen, I'm not sure, but I'd reasonably bet that CX will likely look to re-introduce LGW at some stage next year.

Air Zimbabwe - previously served LGW on-and-off over the years. Given their financial situation, I'm unsure whether they are in a position to re-open LGW.

Ghana Airlines - I think has previously served LGW many years ago, are more likely to come to Gatwick over LHR.

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Old 21st Mar 2023, 23:44
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Originally Posted by JW95
I'm a little sceptical about Air Asia. The route landscape from LON-KUL today is far different to that to when D7 last served STN, and later, LGW 10 years ago, in that there are far more connections and airline choice available to passengers should they wish to travel to Kuala Lumpur. I remember that towards the end of D7's time at LGW, the price difference compared to travelling on a full service carrier was not that big compared to Air Asia fares, and naturally, more people would have been tempted to fly those carriers (e.g. EK, QR et al.) on a long haul journey instead. Plus they would be going up against MH's twice daily service from LHR, that offers a solid A350 product. So I am really unconvinced Air Asia will re-enter the London market any time soon, especially with their A339s not arriving until at least 2026.

I do however see Cathay Pacific returning to LGW once the LHR operation is back up to peak capacity- and progress towards achieving this is already increasing, with CX offering up to the pre-covid 5 rotations per day from April. On the occasions I flew LGW-HKG with Cathay, the ground staff mentioned that this had become a good route for the airline since it was re-launched in 2016, with frequent overbooking occurring in the summer months. When this will happen, I'm not sure, but I'd reasonably bet that CX will likely look to re-introduce LGW at some stage next year.

Air Zimbabwe - previously served LGW on-and-off over the years. Given their financial situation, I'm unsure whether they are in a position to re-open LGW.

Ghana Airlines - I think has previously served LGW many years ago, are more likely to come to Gatwick over LHR.
Ghana Airlines, the new national carrier for Ghana was established in September 2022 with operations expected to commence in Q3 2023. Ghana Airlines will initially operate domestically with DHC Dash 8s, the airline also has three Boeing 789 on order with the first delivery expected sometime in 2024.

Ghana International Airlines operated from Accra to London Gatwick between 2005 and 2010, initially with Boeing 757 and towards the airline's final year a Boeing 767.

Ghana Airways on the other hand flew from Accra to London Heathrow. The airline was formed in 1958 and ceased operations in 2004.

Ghana Airways DC10-30s were seen at London Gatwick during the late eighties operating between London Gatwick and Bridgetown, Barbados on behalf of the Barbadian owned national carrier, International Caribbean Airways.

The establishment of Ghana Airlines will bring the 12-year absence of a national carrier in Ghana to an end. This follows the collapse of former national airlines Ghana Airways in 2004, and Ghana International Airlines, six years later in 2010.

Air Zimbabwe, the state owned national carrier of Zimbabwe commenced direct flights between Harare and London Gatwick in June 1980 with Boeing 707-320.

Air Zimbabwe purchased two brand new Boeing 767-200ER in 1995.

Air Zimbabwe flew for almost thirty two years of continuous service between Harare and London Gatwick.

Air Zimbabwe suspended it's London flights on the 02 January 2012 after one of it's Boeing 767s was impounded at Gatwick on 14 December 2011 over unpaid bills.

The state owned Air Zimbabwe last year cleared the US$1,4 million debt it owed to IATA and hopes to rejoin the organisation.

According to the "The Herald" (Harare) dated 10 March 2023.

"Air Zimbabwe is expecting delivery of a new plane at the end of the month, while plans to resuscitate the Harare to London route are well underway following the clearance of the international Air Transport Association debt. Plans are now focused for Air Zimbabwe on expanding the international connections from Harare with a resumption to London being a priority for the airline"

So considering all that, then Air Zimbabwe could well be resuming Harare to London Gatwick at some point in the future. Much of the African press are also reporting this as are various aviation websites.

I fully agree with your analysis of the Cathay Pacific situation and their possible return to LGW at some point.

I also fully agree with your analysis of Air Asia X. I personally don't see them resuming a Kuala Lumpur to London Gatwick route be-it via Dubai or direct for the same reasons you have mentioned.
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Old 22nd Mar 2023, 07:37
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Talk of these potential newcomers is interesting, but they aren't delivering volume just adding complexity. Will anybody make any money out of them?
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Old 22nd Mar 2023, 14:09
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Talk of these potential newcomers is interesting, but they aren't delivering volume just adding complexity. Will anybody make any money out of them?
The same could be said about many current airlines and routes.

Your posts always seem to be negative with more or less the same questions posed everytime.
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Old 22nd Mar 2023, 14:39
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No new routes today?
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Old 22nd Mar 2023, 14:54
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Originally Posted by Sotonsean
The same could be said about many current airlines and routes.

Your posts always seem to be negative with more or less the same questions posed everytime.
Glad I'm being consistent (and based on an earlier life, not having to handle Air Zimbabwe or Ghana Airlines)
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Old 22nd Mar 2023, 15:09
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Originally Posted by Sotonsean
The same could be said about many current airlines and routes.
Your posts always seem to be negative with more or less the same questions posed everytime.
Let's play the ball and not the man, it's business not religion or football, often a hobby that's meant to be fun.
The list of suggested airlines above area good example of making money being forgotten. Garuda don't know how to, Qatar don't really care, Saudia have more money than God himself. And then we see that Emirates can and do make money, remarkably well. Some developing world airlines are crucial in projecting national identity and prestige, just like we did with BOAC in the 1950s. Making money comes a poor 2nd or 3rd. That has been the case with Air India and only time will tell if that has changed.

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Old 22nd Mar 2023, 16:09
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Originally Posted by FlyGatwick
I expect BA at some point to revive a daily, year-round LGW-MIA service
I don’t see that happening in a million years…
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Old 22nd Mar 2023, 17:15
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A week ago I would have said many destinations and the types of airlines announced wouldn't be added for years. Gatwick is becoming very well connected globally. Yes I don't see British Airways operating on routes that could hurt the operations at Heathrow, however there has to come a point where why don't you just do both.

I think there is more chance of British Airways recommencing For Lauderdale. British Airways long haul at Gatwick generates so much income for the airline and reasons why have been previously mentioned on this thread. I believe British Airways will have to act fast with their expansion as I believe from working there that airlines will keep flooding in. Gatwick are in talks with other indian airlines to commence operations. I think Vistara may launch, we shall see!
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Old 22nd Mar 2023, 17:45
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British Airways will have to act fast with their expansion as I believe from working there that airlines will keep flooding in.
The only way BA can expand long haul LGW over the next few seasons is by downsizing LHR. They're really tight on aircraft with B787 delays and B744 early retirement.
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Old 22nd Mar 2023, 18:50
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No doubt that BA are in expansion mode at LGW, which is brilliant to see, considering there was speculation just under 2 years ago that the airline could have ditched LGW entirely like Virgin did. Luckily, it didn't and have signalled a clear intention to focus more on LGW going forwards. In saying this, I do think expansion will be more gradual. As has been mentioned, the early retirement of the 744s in 2020 has now resulted in a shortage of long haul aircraft for the airline, meaning that any additional LHR hand-me-down 777s destined for LGW will have to wait until the delivery of more 787s, A350s and the new 777-9. I wonder if in addition to the 772, we will eventually see some of the 77Ws at Gatwick? BA have never to date provided a clear answer as to what the eventual fleet replacement of the LGW 772 fleet will be.
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Old 22nd Mar 2023, 20:04
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I have wondered whether the Airbus A321LR/XLR would work for BA at LGW in opening up new long haul leisure routes.

IAG would obviously insist the aircraft are leased. Pre COVID-19 it would have fitted in perfectly for BA at Gatwick, complementing the Boeing 777-200 and also being used on short-haul routes if needed and to maximise aircraft utilisation. That was of course until IAG forced the BA EuroFlyer split....
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Old 22nd Mar 2023, 20:09
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Originally Posted by nguba
I have wondered whether the Airbus A321LR/XLR would work for BA at LGW in opening up new long haul leisure routes.

IAG would obviously insist the aircraft are leased. Pre COVID-19 it would have fitted in perfectly for BA at Gatwick, complementing the Boeing 777-200 and also being used on short-haul routes if needed and to maximise aircraft utilisation. That was of course until IAG forced the BA EuroFlyer split....
I must be on a different planet. What specific long haul leisure ex LGW do you see a brand new BA XLR offering?
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Old 22nd Mar 2023, 21:42
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Originally Posted by Travel24
A week ago I would have said many destinations and the types of airlines announced wouldn't be added for years. Gatwick is becoming very well connected globally. Yes I don't see British Airways operating on routes that could hurt the operations at Heathrow, however there has to come a point where why don't you just do both.

I think there is more chance of British Airways recommencing For Lauderdale. British Airways long haul at Gatwick generates so much income for the airline and reasons why have been previously mentioned on this thread. I believe British Airways will have to act fast with their expansion as I believe from working there that airlines will keep flooding in. Gatwick are in talks with other indian airlines to commence operations. I think Vistara may launch, we shall see!
As I'm sure you're aware, Vistara are to merge with Air India with completion expected by March 2024.

If Vistara did indeed launch a DEL-LGW service this could well be a prelude to an Air India flight from next March.
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Old 23rd Mar 2023, 10:54
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Sky Express

With the news that Sky Express will be joining LGW next month, what are the likely implications of this on Aegean's seasonal service to ATH? There will be 3 other carriers servicing LGW-ATH, including Wizz, EasyJet and Sky Express. Is this likely to lead to Aegean ending the route and leaving LGW entirely in favour of a consolidated operation at LHR? They had also previously served STN on two occasions, but I'm unsure they would re-open STN given that FR fly STN-ATH, albeit just once daily.
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Old 23rd Mar 2023, 11:02
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Jet2 start Stn-Ath next week also.
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Old 23rd Mar 2023, 23:05
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Has Lufthansa dropped Lgw - Fra before it starts? Flights appear on various booking engines but nothing shows on their own site. Maybe it is a glitch.
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Old 23rd Mar 2023, 23:59
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I’ve found the same. Does anyone have any clarification about Lufthansa cutting Gatwick flights.
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