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Southampton-3

Old 10th Apr 2023, 19:20
  #1381 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you,very interesting, in all departments greater then SEN!
Lets hope the distances are serviceable ASAP,allowing operators to consider routes for 2024.
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Old 10th Apr 2023, 20:38
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
Here are the projected declared distances from an earlier post of mine when I was comparing them with SEN. The final version will be subject to CAA approval following completion of work and an ďas builtĒ runway survey being completed. The latter could cause a delay before the distances become operationally useable due to the approval process.

SOU RWY 02 (M) (SEN RWY 05)
TORA 1745 (1739)
TODA 1805 (1799)
ASDA 1745 (1739)
LDA 1673 (1604)

SOU RWY 20 (M) (SEN RWY 23)
TORA 1814 (1739)
TODA 1874 (1799)
ASDA 1814 (1799)
LDA 1605 (1604)
With those projected declarations, are these best suited to an Airbus or Boeing fleet? Only ask as SEN had both types operating using slightly less distances!
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Old 10th Apr 2023, 21:28
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As I’m sure TCAS FAN will tell you, you also have to consider obstacles when looking at performance.
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Old 10th Apr 2023, 21:34
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I think the obstacle environment will be the challenge here. Not an expert on it but I'm pretty sure TCAS FAN will have the info to hand
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 08:34
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I don't understand the quoted distances for SEN, as from GE the paved runway is about 1970 meters, so the ASDA should be around this figure.
Long time since I did performance in the classroom.
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 11:19
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Originally Posted by dixi188
I don't understand the quoted distances for SEN, as from GE the paved runway is about 1970 meters, so the ASDA should be around this figure.
Long time since I did performance in the classroom.
To me the give away is the number of 1799M declared distances. This indicates to me that SEN's runway is classified as a Code 3 runway, which the maximum for any declared TORA/ASDA/TODA is 1799M. SOU is classified as a Code 4 runway, so the 1799 restriction does not apply.
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 11:22
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Originally Posted by willy wombat
As Iím sure TCAS FAN will tell you, you also have to consider obstacles when looking at performance.
Correct, but this is a complex issue which I believe will vary between aircraft types/power-plants, and is something that I am not competent to comment on.
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 11:52
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Originally Posted by commit aviation
I think the obstacle environment will be the challenge here. Not an expert on it but I'm pretty sure TCAS FAN will have the info to hand
Moving the start of TORA away from the obstacles will be beneficial, but some obstacles may still impact on take-off performance, albeit less than they currently do.

Unfortunately AGS's attempts to resolve the main tree issue by purchase of Marhill Copse and subsequent action to reduce tree height therein were thwarted by Southampton City Council. Had they have been successful, this would have been the icing on the cake.

Discounting the Marhill Copse tree issue, I would think that AGS would have assessed, during formulation of their business case, the improved performance issue with input from prospective operators to quantify exactly the additional destinations that could be served by the extended runway. Until the extension is done and dusted cannot envisage that they are going to reveal this information.

From what I see on the current RWY 20 Type A Obstacle Charts there are other problem trees between Marhill Copse and the southern end of runway. which may not be subject to TPOs. If any of these impact on take-off performance, time to start talking again to the City Council and/or land owner? The surveyors will be back to do the "as built" runway survey, they could easily do an update to the Type A charts at the same time.
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 12:14
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Originally Posted by SouthernAlliance
are these best suited to an Airbus or Boeing fleet?
Suited or not, where would this supposed Boeing fleet actually come from? Ryanair have categorically stated SOU does not suit them, nor Jet2 as they are not looking to expand elsewhere anytime soon, TUI, very slim to zero chance of them coming to SOU due to bases at EXT and BOH.
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 12:30
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Originally Posted by Dropoffcharge
Suited or not, where would this supposed Boeing fleet actually come from? Ryanair have categorically stated SOU does not suit them, nor Jet2 as they are not looking to expand elsewhere anytime soon, TUI, very slim to zero chance of them coming to SOU due to bases at EXT and BOH.
That wasnít my question, just wanted to know if the revised airfield performance chart favoured one type more than the other!
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 14:15
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I'm not saying Ryanair would go but I would take their comments about Southampton with a pinch of salt.

The quote from them about it not being 'top of their list' was at Bournemouth airport where Ryanair were announcing an extra aircraft there and new destinations.

If a few incentives are offered on top sometimes I wonder if Ryanair are more likely to potentially base a single aircraft or so, as opposed to easyJet who don't tend to ever have such a low number of aircraft based at an airport.
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 14:32
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Originally Posted by cavokblues
I'm not saying Ryanair would go but I would take their comments about Southampton with a pinch of salt.

The quote from them about it not being 'top of their list' was at Bournemouth airport where Ryanair were announcing an extra aircraft there and new destinations.

If a few incentives are offered on top sometimes I wonder if Ryanair are more likely to potentially base a single aircraft or so, as opposed to easyJet who don't tend to ever have such a low number of aircraft based at an airport.
Didn't O'Leary say something similar before then? Even if was first said at a BOH event, in response to a direct question, it would have ben easy to give a bland answer.
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 14:37
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https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/ry...033100761.html

They seem fairly bland to me. Certainly not a categorical 'never.'
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Old 11th Apr 2023, 15:00
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OíLearyís lot will go wherever the money and incentives are so I wouldnít give those press releases too much substance
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Old 12th Apr 2023, 07:43
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
To me the give away is the number of 1799M declared distances. This indicates to me that SEN's runway is classified as a Code 3 runway, which the maximum for any declared TORA/ASDA/TODA is 1799M. SOU is classified as a Code 4 runway, so the 1799 restriction does not apply.
You are correct.
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Old 13th Apr 2023, 11:36
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Why did Air Berlin move to Bournemouth? They were only operating to/from Paderborn (EDLP).
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Old 13th Apr 2023, 11:38
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Originally Posted by 055166k
Why did Air Berlin move to Bournemouth? They were only operating to/from Paderborn (EDLP).
Think they were using the 738 which was not suited to airfield performance
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Old 20th Apr 2023, 12:19
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Good to see the south coast increase itís offering with BOH getting an additional TUI 738 for next summer. Isnít it about time SOU followed and announced some new routes before they are left behind?
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Old 20th Apr 2023, 13:19
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Originally Posted by SouthernAlliance
Good to see the south coast increase itís offering with BOH getting an additional TUI 738 for next summer. Isnít it about time SOU followed and announced some new routes before they are left behind?
Unless airlines are committed how on earth are SOU expected to follow suit in announcing new routes.

It's the responsibility of airlines to announce new routes not Southampton Airport management.

SOU is already left behind I'm afraid, especially regarding routes to the Mediterranean.
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Old 20th Apr 2023, 14:03
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Originally Posted by SouthernAlliance
Good to see the south coast increase itís offering with BOH getting an additional TUI 738 for next summer. Isnít it about time SOU followed and announced some new routes before they are left behind?
The problem for SOU is that they need to be able to tell airlines and tour operators precisely when the additional runway length is going to be commissioned but with the best will in the world building projects seldom get completed on time and no airline/tour operator is going to sell seats they aren't sure they'll be able to deliver (from the airport they are booked from).
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