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Southampton-3

Old 12th Nov 2023, 22:25
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Originally Posted by RW20
It certainly won't be Canaries,due to runway length ,also the highly popular Turkey is out of range.
So I don't see much inroads into.the vastly expanding BOH Summer operations.
Beg to differ and reckon TFS is very doable although maybe with a 10-15 load reduction on A320. As yet there is no vastly expanding BOH operation and any EZY route injection at SOU will for sure see an impact on numbers down the road. But, as we always say on here this is not a competition between south coast airports!

Last edited by SouthernAlliance; 13th Nov 2023 at 07:27.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 04:47
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Originally Posted by Mr A Tis
That might be the timetabled cross country schedule. In reality many are regularly cancelled-totally unreliable service at ridiculous fares.
Two recent trips, 7 hours Bournemouth to Manchester. The next one 4.5 hours Winchester to Stockport, standing in first class for 4.5 hours. Most passengers denied boarding after Basingstoke due to overcrowding. People having to stand in toilets. This is reality of the so called train service.
The sooner someone gets back on the SOU-MAN route the better.
Completely agree. It is one of the worst train services I've ever experienced. When factoring in delays it's usually quicker to go via London to the south coast from Manchester by rail... including the tube journey from Euston to Victoria/Waterloo. The service is usually formed of 4/5 coaches - far too short when the service doubles up as an intercity/commuter service due to the high number of stops. It's always overcrowded and is usually far more expensive than the flight. And like you said, so prone to delay due to the round-robin route that it takes. To put it into perspective I've previously caught the Piccadilly service from Southampton Central to the airport, and still been back in Manchester over an hour before the train arrives. And that's with getting to SOU 2 hours prior to departure, which is massively over cautious given how quick the door to gate experience is at Southampton.

I'm currently writing this from the 05:05 Avanti service from Piccadilly to London, from where I'll be later travelling onwards to Chichester to work for the next couple of days. Very much missing that route right now! Fingers crossed Loganair make an announcement soon.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 09:11
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The trouble is, if you were the Loganair CEO would you be keen to launch SOUMAN given that EZY has previously jumped on them at MAN (NQY and others) and at SOU (GLA obviously)?
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 09:50
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Originally Posted by willy wombat
The trouble is, if you were the Loganair CEO would you be keen to launch SOUMAN given that EZY has previously jumped on them at MAN (NQY and others) and at SOU (GLA obviously)?
I don't think this is the issue at all. You all seem to be missing the point that Logan don't have a based aircraft at either SOU or MAN. If you are going to serve the route properly, this is a prerequisite.
There are significant costs to setting up new bases and only SOU would actually be interested in having Logan base there. MAN actively discourage smaller gauge aircraft from basing there.

And then there's an issue with peak time slots/terminal capacity at MAN....
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 10:00
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Originally Posted by TartinTon
I don't think this is the issue at all. You all seem to be missing the point that Logan don't have a based aircraft at either SOU or MAN. If you are going to serve the route properly, this is a prerequisite.
There are significant costs to setting up new bases and only SOU would actually be interested in having Logan base there. MAN actively discourage smaller gauge aircraft from basing there.

And then there's an issue with peak time slots/terminal capacity at MAN....
In which case get EZY on it asap. Eastern gave it a go but canít organise a Ö. up in a brewery!

Last edited by SouthernAlliance; 13th Nov 2023 at 10:20.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 10:30
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Originally Posted by cavokblues
I thought someone said on here last month all distances at SOU are now longer than SEN and Easy operated SEN - TFS.
Runway distances yeah, but it's the obstacle clearance on runway 20 where SOU currently suffers compared to SEN. Hence why the airport are so desperate to finally get those trees cut.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 11:13
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I must admit, I'm a tad confused by these trees and the obstacles.

TODA includes the clearway and the airport's recent appeal to cut the trees made very little reference to their impact upon performance.

Are they even still really an issue considering the distances now available and comparable to other airports like SEN?
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 11:19
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Originally Posted by cavokblues
I thought someone said on here last month all distances at SOU are now longer than SEN and Easy operated SEN - TFS.
So from memory SEN - TFS was restricted to 175 pax. Initially the based A320ís had 180 seats but are all now 186 I believe. I stand to be corrected but believe there were no restrictions between SEN-ACE.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 13:18
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Originally Posted by TartinTon
I don't think this is the issue at all. You all seem to be missing the point that Logan don't have a based aircraft at either SOU or MAN. If you are going to serve the route properly, this is a prerequisite.
There are significant costs to setting up new bases and only SOU would actually be interested in having Logan base there. MAN actively discourage smaller gauge aircraft from basing there.

And then there's an issue with peak time slots/terminal capacity at MAN....
They have slots at MAN and SOU for Summer 2024 to fly the route. Aircraft overnights in SOU and schedule looks like it dovetails with some of the SOU-EDI flights so my guess would be an EDI based aircraft doing it.

Slots at MAN are within five minutes of what they asked for. Canít easily tell if those are historic slots moved around from other routes. But it looks as if they have every ability to schedule this route with slots and aircraft if they actually want to do it.

And state of relations between Loganair and AGS at the moment can only be guessed!
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 14:14
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It would be a big and ballsy jump, but realistically - going forwards Loganair are going to have a big fight on their hands with price point. I think the next logical step is something like the E190E2.

A base at Southampton, alongside Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow and their Heathrow operations would easily support a fleet of 12 or so. It would open up opportunities with travel agents on charters out of the likes of Southampton, Isle of Man, Newquay and their bases, closer working partnership with BA perhaps even out of LCY again.

As mentioned, Flybe used to fill 78 seats multiple times a day out of SOU on at least 6 routes. Is it really behind belief that Loganair could offer a better price point, properly compete with easyJet and fill 110 seats on SOU-ABZ/EDI/GLA/NCL/MAN/BHD 3-6 daily?

I only recall NCL-SOU accurately enough to comment but Flybe operated up to 4 daily and pulled up to 12,000 monthly passengers. That should profitably sustain 3 daily flights on an 290 sized aircraft with decent load factors. And Flybe werenít necessarily cheap either.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 14:45
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Don't want to be rude but I struggle to believe that someone could use the "Flybe used to do it" argument to suggest a route/aircraft type/frequency is a good idea. I think "Flybe used to do it" is basically a reason not to do something, or at least not to do it the Flybe way. Flybe tried the e jets and they didn't work for them. Even 'though the aircraft would be cheaper now, IMHO you will never achieve the cost per ASK on even an E 195 that you will on an A320.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 20:58
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Originally Posted by Flightrider
And state of relations between Loganair and AGS at the moment can only be guessed!
Considering that Loganair chose to completely suspend operations at NQY for the W22/23 season due to the "...short-sighted and short-term decisions by the airportís management to incentivise unsustainable operations by other airlines" [as per the statement from their website] when it was announced that Flybe 2.0 were launching MAN-NQY flights, I can only guess that the state of relations between Loganair and AGS maybe a bit tense at the moment for the same/similar reason[s], although they've not made any kind of announcement regarding a reduction/withdrawal of services at SOU yet.
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 06:26
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Someone above mentioned more growth about PMI Palma --- FYI this Summer (2023) saw BACF operate 5 weekly flights (2 were whole plane charters for TUI Holidays)
Do we need more?
If so, then it will be likely EasyJet Europe (who have a Palma Base) that will supply, as they have done with a SOU-FAO for Summer 2024
(and who have at last restarted SEN leisure flights again with some success)

Re TFS
EasyJet Europe have no bases of Aircraft nor Crews in the Canary Islands, so you will not see a TFS-SOU route unless that situation changes,
or, Easyjet UK actually open a fixed base at SOU with some aircraft and crews (as has been lamented on here for a decade or more).
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 06:53
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Originally Posted by rog747
Someone above mentioned more growth about PMI Palma --- FYI this Summer (2023) saw BACF operate 5 weekly flights (2 were whole plane charters for TUI Holidays)
Do we need more?
If so, then it will be likely EasyJet Europe (who have a Palma Base) that will supply, as they have done with a SOU-FAO for Summer 2024
(and who have at last restarted SEN leisure flights again with some success)

Re TFS
EasyJet Europe have no bases of Aircraft nor Crews in the Canary Islands, so you will not see a TFS-SOU route unless that situation changes,
or, Easyjet UK actually open a fixed base at SOU with some aircraft and crews (as has been lamented on here for a decade or more).
would be surprised if easyjetís next batch of route releases donít include SOU to AGP/PMI. Always amazes me how many flights across the U.K. there is to PMI but clearly demand is there for a wonderful island!
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 07:48
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Originally Posted by SouthernAlliance
would be surprised if easyjet’s next batch of route releases don’t include SOU to AGP/PMI. Always amazes me how many flights across the U.K. there is to PMI but clearly demand is there for a wonderful island!
Indeed, I think personally that EasyJet will mirror at SOU more similar routes that it has reintroduced at SEN Southend such as those you mention above.

FWIW - and applicable to SOU Leisure expansions

TUI have just dropped some new destinations it had planned out of BOH for next Summer (such as Tunisia) and have upped their Palma to 5 weekly flights.
With Ryanair also operating 9 services a week, Palma will now be 14 x 737-800 flights a week from BOH for S24, being the highest ever?
I remember when it was one Spantax CV990 a week, or later on a couple of Palmair 146's per week!

TUI have been advertising for more Bournemouth based cabin and flight crew for next summer, and have said that BOH will have the 2 TUI 738's again for S25.

From the BOH thread >
Hays Travel have sold-out their BOH-Barbados Fly Cruises for Winter 24 & 25 already.
P&O Cruises began the first of their BOH-BGI flights this month with 7 TUI Charters operating this winter for them.
Hays Travel could sell more Fly-Cruises from BOH but have trouble sourcing long-haul aircraft, as a shortage of TUI B787s this winter and no other suitable UK carriers anymore.
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 08:23
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Will there be demand for extra Palma flights from SOU?
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 08:37
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TUI are using easyJet to fly holidaymakers to Portugal and Spain next summer and have added a programme of holidays to fit in

The Tuesday flight to Palma itís still tba with TUI but I suspect it will be Cityflyer again as they have just added another Tuesday flight from LCY which fits in for the high season ( same as this summer )

There is a massive demand for Palma and not to be underestimated from this region
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 08:45
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Originally Posted by RW20
Will there be demand for extra Palma flights from SOU?
Answer would be yes I suspect and many would rather fly with EZY for a small premium over RYR etc

Last edited by SouthernAlliance; 14th Nov 2023 at 10:00.
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 10:26
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So Steve Szalay has now joined the RCA group (who own BOH) as Chief Operating Officer....didn't see that one coming.
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 11:32
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Originally Posted by Dropoffcharge
So Steve Szalay has now joined the RCA group (who own BOH) as Chief Operating Officer....didn't see that one coming.
Great move for him,and for BOH, shame we lost him,the present SOU management are yet to shine!
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