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Southampton-3

Old 22nd Aug 2022, 21:32
  #921 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds like a licence to lose money. I assume the Scottish routes will be mid day between the MAN flights so low yield.
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 21:43
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Originally Posted by willy wombat View Post
Sounds like a licence to lose money. I assume the Scottish routes will be mid day between the MAN flights so low yield.
You have a real axe to grind against Flybe, eh wombat? That and no clue as to what works on the SOU-Scotland markets....
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 06:25
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Not so much an axe to grind as a belief that Flybe V2 is at its core a slot scam. I can see no other reason a VC would have put the money in. And in the meantime, while the slot scam plays out, the company’s route selection risks damaging the likes of Loganair, Eastern etc which could in the long term reduce, not increase, competition.
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 07:39
  #924 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by willy wombat View Post
Not so much an axe to grind as a belief that Flybe V2 is at its core a slot scam. I can see no other reason a VC would have put the money in. And in the meantime, while the slot scam plays out, the company’s route selection risks damaging the likes of Loganair, Eastern etc which could in the long term reduce, not increase, competition.
Eastern seem to do a pretty good job at damaging themselves!

Logan offer a decent product/service but at prices that are just too high for a lot of leisure travellers.

Hopefully Flybe will find a niche here (initially) with more price sensitive leisure and business travellers that don't need to be on the early and late flights.
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 10:31
  #925 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wycombe View Post
Eastern seem to do a pretty good job at damaging themselves!

Logan offer a decent product/service but at prices that are just too high for a lot of leisure travellers.

Hopefully Flybe will find a niche here (initially) with more price sensitive leisure and business travellers that don't need to be on the early and late flights.
All flybe will do is make inroads into Loganair's existing traffic, there's not enough room for both operators to make a decent margin . If you want high frequency you need higher fares, some low fares WILL be essential for volume and are available. flybe's entry is an attempt to get Loganair off "their" old turf, there's no scope for both IMHO. How many times has SOU been round THAT merry go round now? SOU was also Loganair's turf back when they bought the Jetstream 31 and 41. If you want to serve SOU-Scotland you will need to offer 2-3 daily, the notion that flybe2 will simply serve the off peak leisure market is unlikely, it it more likely that one operator will leave the market.

Last edited by Skipness One Foxtrot; 23rd Aug 2022 at 10:42.
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 12:47
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the notion that flybe2 will simply serve the off peak leisure market is unlikely, it it more likely that one operator will leave the market.
....and that's why I said "initially" as ultimately you'd imagine that Flybe would like to become the dominant operator. Sensible to start small, try to build a niche and use that as a basis for expansion.

No doubt that will happen if they can provide a decent service at a decent price (in a way that works from a business perspective also!)
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 12:56
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Flybe V1 went to war with LM and look how that ended. Granted it was on LM home turf but SOU is arguably LMs (even if thats still fairly 'new'). They have put a lot of effort into establishing themselves at SOU and work with both Blue Islands and Aurigny on codeshare flights, the three of them have their alliance to stave off competitors.


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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 14:31
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Originally Posted by wanna View Post
Flybe V1 went to war with LM and look how that ended. Granted it was on LM home turf but SOU is arguably LMs (even if thats still fairly 'new'). They have put a lot of effort into establishing themselves at SOU and work with both Blue Islands and Aurigny on codeshare flights, the three of them have their alliance to stave off competitors.
Not to mention a BA codeshare so things will not be easy for BE. Loads I understand are good on SOU LM flights even at high prices and doubt one daily by BE outside of core hours is likely to rock the LM boat (at present)!

Last edited by SKOJB; 23rd Aug 2022 at 21:33.
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 20:08
  #929 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SKOJB View Post
Not to mention a BA codeshare so things will not be easy for BE. Loads I understand are good on SOU LM flights even at high prices and doubt one daily by BE out of core hours is likely to rock the LM boat (at present)!
I use the LM service to GLA often and its usually fairly busy. They are more expensive compared to the old Flybe but the service is way better. In the last year or two of Flybe on the GLA service, i dreaded using them as the customer service experience was appalling/ I'll definately be sticking with LM when the competition arrives.
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 23:09
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Good to see MAN as Eastern have been a disgrace on that route. Just need Emerald to start DUB and SOU can be shot of them.

I get the annoyance with the Scottish routes but Logan have had plenty of time to move their ops to better equipment which would enable them to lower the ticket prices. There were many ex Flybe Q400s lying around and plenty of crews to fly them. Had they done that then new Flybe probably wouldn’t have a chance. Expect them to increase frequencies when their fleet grows and push Logan out. A shame but their own fault really. Who still flies 145s in Europe?
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 23:15
  #931 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint View Post
Good to see MAN as Eastern have been a disgrace on that route. Just need Emerald to start DUB and SOU can be shot of them.

I get the annoyance with the Scottish routes but Logan have had plenty of time to move their ops to better equipment which would enable them to lower the ticket prices. There were many ex Flybe Q400s lying around and plenty of crews to fly them. Had they done that then new Flybe probably wouldn’t have a chance. Expect them to increase frequencies when their fleet grows and push Logan out. A shame but their own fault really. Who still flies 145s in Europe?
I believe Logan did take a good hard look and decided that the Q400 really wasn’t better equipment. Time will tell.
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 23:43
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint View Post
Good to see MAN as Eastern have been a disgrace on that route. Just need Emerald to start DUB and SOU can be shot of them.

I get the annoyance with the Scottish routes but Logan have had plenty of time to move their ops to better equipment which would enable them to lower the ticket prices. There were many ex Flybe Q400s lying around and plenty of crews to fly them. Had they done that then new Flybe probably wouldn’t have a chance. Expect them to increase frequencies when their fleet grows and push Logan out. A shame but their own fault really. Who still flies 145s in Europe?
We were apparently offered a load of Q400s when Flybe fell over, and even at zero lease rentals, the chief said they weren't cheap enough! They're horribly complex aircraft requiring massive engineering support. And why would you take on the complexity of another fleet and lots more pilots during a pandemic!! Short memory methinks. With ATRs already in the fleet by then and commonality across pax & freighter ops, sticking with the ATRs and the jets is just fine and gives elbow room to compete on frequency or seat cost as needed. The Embraers burn fuel but when you own them outright, it does change the numbers.
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Old 28th Aug 2022, 20:34
  #933 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by stewyb View Post
£300m versus £15m, mmm let me think. There will be no holding off a start and as I have mentioned previous, materials are on order and work shall commence once delivered. This small project (in comparison) is NOT dependant on any possible future recession/major interest rate rises et al!
No mention of any start time for this rwy extension still,is it going to happen?
Surely 2023/24 is going to be hard for all airlines,with less people having disposable income for Sun holidays
Smaller airports like SOU are going to find it tough,so any financial investment in a runway extension must now be questionable to say the least!
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Old 29th Aug 2022, 09:28
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In a forward thinking country or company for that matter that is exactly the time to carry out improvements. You are then ready to take advantage of the upturn.
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Old 29th Aug 2022, 09:44
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Surely after 2 years fighting through the courts and money spent thus far, the owners will not now decide to hold off commencing this project, utter lunacy and instead is an investment for the future!
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Old 29th Aug 2022, 11:01
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The money invested in most cases needs to make an immediate return. Heading into a potential recession, they may choose to delay.
To counter your argument, STN has planning approval after a court battle but they don't appear to have started building just yet. Maybe they have decided it is wiser to hold off until there is some certainty on economic conditions next year. Some might consider that not to do so is utter lunacy.
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Old 29th Aug 2022, 11:27
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Difference between SOU and many other airport projects, this one is crucial to its short term financial viability. It requires a runway extension asap in order to attract some additional leisure routes as well as better existing airline operability. Don’t think the airports owners can hang around too long without this work being completed when their break even is 1.1m pax and current projections look closer to 600k!
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Old 29th Aug 2022, 11:29
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With the huge escalation in home and business energy costs, the rise in everyday fuel and transport costs faced by most families and the very steep rise in food and other household costs we are going to see an exceptionally big decline in all kinds of leisure travel - visiting friends and families, city breaks and traditional holidays.
With the increase in energy costs even more apparent in the commercial sector, where the wholesale spot price of electricity was 87p per KWh on Friday, I would imagine that any prudent business would look very cautiously at spending at the moment. For example the cost of heating and lighting at the terminal and throughout the airport is likely to rise by a factor of perhaps as much as 10 over the next 8 months, and I think we are likely to see a big decline in aviation and passenger numbers over this period too.
I think any business would do well to 'batten down the hatches' for the next couple of years - one only has to look at Southend to appreciate how quickly markets can change.
The good times will return in time, but the coming couple of years will present as much of a challenge for aviation as COVID did.
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Old 29th Aug 2022, 11:49
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Well, anybody who knows isn't going to be saying here, so lets not feed the troll, eh?
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Old 29th Aug 2022, 12:27
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Well, anybody who knows isn't going to be saying here, so lets not feed the troll, eh?
Unfortunately there seem to be people that take the bait every time. Those who have posted above please be aware that this poster is just trying to stir things up. The mods really should ban him, assuming it is a human and not a bot.

It takes time to plan works of this nature and get all the resources required. Most building projects are struggling to get resources and are running behind schedule. Nothing to see here.

on a side note, 4 flights a day now to Belfast. I wonder who will give first. Be interesting to see the numbers per airline.
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