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Southampton-3

Old 25th Sep 2022, 11:18
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Originally Posted by rog747
Thank you, yes I do now see there are -
Indeed 2 daily KLM flights - 0920 and 1720
but it seems up to only until 25 MAR then goes back to one per day at 1720

Sadly on my outbound 21 MAR the 0920 arrives AMS at 1125 and NBO departs 1150 ouch!

On the way back on 29 MAR we land AMS at 0715, but there is only the late afternoon back to SOU at 1640

So it will be most likely be LCY or LHR with KLM (or AF LHR via CDG only)

I am using up my zillions of Virgin Flying Club points to take my sister on a Kenya 'Out of Africa' Safari with Business Class flights (VS is a spend points partner with KL/AF)
Or, for the outbound I have enough Avios for BA non stop LHR-NBO flight in WT+ which is fine for an 8 hours Day flight, and do Business Class for the night flight home.
I wonder if it has something to do with the Dutch government enforcing less flights at AMS. I guess after 25 March is when the peak summer period starts so KL canít spare slots for two flights for SOU. Shame as it absolutely can support it and people like you are not able to use the route despite wanting to.
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Old 25th Sep 2022, 11:41
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
I wonder if it has something to do with the Dutch government enforcing less flights at AMS. I guess after 25 March is when the peak summer period starts so KL canít spare slots for two flights for SOU. Shame as it absolutely can support it and people like you are not able to use the route despite wanting to.
I have just been reading that Schiphol transfers and security are a mess with hours of queues and chaos, missed bags etc - Kinda puts me off although March is a long way off, might do CDG on the way home then.
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Old 25th Sep 2022, 12:23
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Originally Posted by rog747
I have just been reading that Schiphol transfers and security are a mess with hours of queues and chaos, missed bags etc - Kinda puts me off although March is a long way off, might do CDG on the way home then.
yes have read this as well. Should be ok on the outbound to SXM as we are travelling Sou-Ams on the later flight and spending the night at Amsterdam so can check in very early next day. Home journey to Sou we have a 50 min transfer at AMS so not really expecting to make that but you never know.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 08:36
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it seems Albert Hall was correct,the extension has no start date until sometime in 2023,
're quote from airport manager below:


Mr Szalay told the event he was concerned about finding the staff required to keep up with demand.

ďWhen I speak to people in the construction industry, finding the right skills and building the runway extension next year is going to be a challenge. But once thatís built, the staff that take us up from 700 to 2,000, where are they coming from?Ē he added.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 08:53
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But once that’s built, the staff that take us up from 700 to 2,000
Where do these numbers come from - is this to get back to pre-Covid levels, for expansion (quite a jump!) or a combination of both?
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 16:06
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I would love to see SOU get back to 2m pax a year but if 1.3m of those pax are coming from a 3 aircraft LCC base that's a hell of a lot of flying with very little ramp space - they need to sort out the stands. Otherwise bussing to/from remote stands near the control tower and other associated infrastructure requirements is probably what their referring to in terms of staffing to be able to deal with it.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 18:22
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Steve, the Ops Director at SOU rightly has concerns that when the runway is done expansion hopefully will see pre-covid disaster levels of passengers and services return to SOU which could he says, need 2000 staff to make the airport function.
Where will he get these folk from >???

When I spoke to him in June this year at the start of the summer, he had just managed to get just over 400 staff on stream and was just ''coping'' OK even with the 7 or 8 BA Cityflyers in and out over every weekend which is of course '''peaks and troughs''' but you still need the manpower.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 19:58
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Originally Posted by rog747
Steve, the Ops Director at SOU rightly has concerns that when the runway is done expansion hopefully will see pre-covid disaster levels of passengers and services return to SOU which could he says, need 2000 staff to make the airport function.
Where will he get these folk from >???

When I spoke to him in June this year at the start of the summer, he had just managed to get just over 400 staff on stream and was just ''coping'' OK even with the 7 or 8 BA Cityflyers in and out over every weekend which is of course '''peaks and troughs''' but you still need the manpower.
unfortunately there has been very little stated on stand upgrade,just runway extension!
With the financial downturn,will there be the demand needed to support the hoped increase of Summer hotspots available due to a LCC coming on board ?
I very much doubt it!
The Planned extension will not be live to at least the 2024 season at best,that's a long way off with today's world turmoil.
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 10:44
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If DSA can’t cut it with 160,000 pax in a month how on earth is SOU making it work with 70,000? One could argue there is even more peripheral business at DSA than SOU too. It desperately needs to get on with the extension.

Does SOU earn any income from the land it sold off to the Royal Mail?
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 10:59
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If DSA was charging airlines £5 per pax and SOU is charging £10, the airport income will be much the same despite the vastly lower pax volumes. And it will need fewer security staff, terminal facilities to handle that smaller volume so probably will be a lot closer to profitability (or at least break even) than DSA. Volume isnít everything.
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 11:13
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Originally Posted by shamrock7seal
.......

Does SOU earn any income from the land it sold off to the Royal Mail?
Time for a reality check. The airport was previously owned by entrepreneur Nat Somers, who funded the laying of the hard (concrete) runway. It was subsequently sold to a property investor Gazeley. They divided the original site into three parcels of land, the north east corner which has remained undeveloped apart from location of the "SAM" VOR/DME, the current airport site and the area adjacent to the airport main entrance which now includes the Royal Mail Building, hotel, Mercedes car dealership and other buildings.

At the time of sale Airports UK Ltd (a subsidiary of BAA Plc) were contracted by Nat Somers to run the airport. BAA Plc then purchased two of the parcels of land from Gazeley, the NE corner and the current airport site. They have never owned the third parcel of land, something that they, and subsequent airport owners, have come to regret. The ideal place the expand the apron and even build Terminal 2?

Last edited by TCAS FAN; 2nd Oct 2022 at 16:05.
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 11:38
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
Time for a reality check. The airport was previously owned by entrepreneur Nat Somers, who funded the laying of the hard (concrete) runway. It was subsequently sold to a property investor Gazeley. They divided the original site into three parcels of land, the north east corner which has remained undeveloped apart from location of the "SAM" VOR/DME, the current airport site and the area adjacent to the airport main entrance which now includes the Royal Building, hotel, Mercedes car dealership and other buildings.

At the time of sale Airports UK Ltd (a subsidiary of BAA Plc) were contracted by NAT Somers to run the airport. BAA Plc then purchased two of the parcels of land from Gazeley, the NE corner and the current airport site. They never owned the third parcel of land, something that they, and subsequent airport owners, have come to regret. The ideal place the expand the apron and even build Terminal 2?
Not sure about a 2nd terminal but definitely could have added 4-5 A320 size stands
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 17:52
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Indeed the CAA figures are poor compared to all the UK regional airports,Bournemouth continue to out perform there Southampton neighbours.Considering the fact that Cityflyer have operated for two years now,one wonders what Pax figures would have been without them?
2023 won't be much different as the runway extension will not be complete for Summer opps.
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Old 3rd Oct 2022, 22:40
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I thought the plan was to have the runway extension completed by end of April 2023, also there will be one less stand on southern side of the terminal in order to be able to handle three A320 size aircraft.
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Old 4th Oct 2022, 06:38
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With no start date set. doesn't sound like it's going to be ready for April 2023

In some of his first public comments since the court decision, Southampton Airport operations director Steve Szalay said the number of jobs at the airport would rise from the current 700 to around 2,000 when the airport reaches its goal of three million passengers a year. The jobs will range from cleaners to pilots, with many in ground services such as baggage handling and security. He said: “It’s just a huge opportunity.”

He said the runway extension would go ahead in 2023, although the exact date could depend on the supply of labour. Plans agreed with the council mean the airport cannot reach three million passengers until 2029. “It’s steady growth,” said Mr Szalay. The number of passengers using the airport slumped to 200,000 amid the Covid crisis in 2021. “In 2019, there were two million people through the airport. If we can put the flights on, they will come back,” said Mr Szalay. “The more activity, the more staff required. It’s an exciting time.”

Mr Szalay told the event he was concerned about finding the staff required to keep up with demand. “When I speak to people in the construction industry, finding the right skills and building the runway extension next year is going to be a challenge. But once that’s built, the staff that take us up from 700 to 2,000, where are they coming from?” he added.
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/228...en-businesses/
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Old 4th Oct 2022, 17:34
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Is it known what increase in declared distances for RW02/20 the extension will result in? Presumably it will extend the TODA/TORA for RW02 but LDA will remain the same? What is the impact on TODA and LDA for RW02?
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Old 4th Oct 2022, 17:45
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Originally Posted by Contacttower
Is it known what increase in declared distances for RW02/20 the extension will result in? Presumably it will extend the TODA/TORA for RW02 but LDA will remain the same? What is the impact on TODA and LDA for RW02?
thanks to TCAS FAN for the comparison with SEN

SOU RWY 02 (M) (SEN RWY 05)
TORA 1745 (1739)
TODA 1805 (1799)
ASDA 1745 (1739)
LDA 1673 (1604)

SOU RWY 20 (M) (SEN RWY 23)
TORA 1814 (1739)
TODA 1874 (1799)
ASDA 1814 (1799)
LDA 1605 (1604)
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Old 4th Oct 2022, 19:44
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An interesting quote from the Echo article:

"Speaking at the Business South conference in Southampton, he (ie the Airport Ops Director) said more attention would shift to the Navigator Quarter – the land to the east and north of the airport that is earmarked for businesses as part of the Solent Freeport."

How is it going to be accessed by road? Without the runway extension maybe, with the runway extension it's going to be an expensive proposition, which I suspect will need a cutting. Hope nobody has forgotten the large gas pipeline that runs along the northern airport boundary! Could the current road infrastructure (ie thorough the airport main entrance) support multiple articulated lorries 24/7?

Just found the "Navigator Quarter" Master Plan: Apparently access via north of the runway, very little other detail on road access.

https://www.navigatorquarter.co.uk/location/




Last edited by TCAS FAN; 4th Oct 2022 at 20:18. Reason: corrections
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Old 4th Oct 2022, 20:22
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
An interesting quote from the Echo article:

"Speaking at the Business South conference in Southampton, he (ie the Airport Ops Director) said more attention would shift to the Navigator Quarter Ė the land to the east and north of the airport that is earmarked for businesses as part of the Solent Freeport."

One question, how is it going to be accessed by road? Without the runway extension maybe, with the runway extension it's going to be an expensive proposition unless the owners of the rail yard are onboard and willing to donate land. Even then I doubt that the current road infrastructure (ie thorough the airport main entrance) could support multiple articulated lorries 24/7.

An alternative, access via the airport east side and creation of the the missing M27 Jct 6?

Is there a Master Plan that I have missed?
I thought the original plan was for a tunnel under the extension joining up the NE corner, however this was never in the planning application and would surely be too prohibitive/expensive once the runway extension is laid down. I still remain to be convinced if this part of the airport will ever be developed upon. Whispers building works are starting later this month

Last edited by stewyb; 5th Oct 2022 at 11:17.
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Old 4th Oct 2022, 20:38
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Originally Posted by stewyb
I thought the original plan was for a tunnel under the extension joining up the NE corner, however this was never in the planning application and would surely be too prohibitive/expensive once the runway extension is laid down. I still remain to be convinced if this part of the airport will ever be developed upon. Whispers building works are starting later this month
Stewyb

I had missed the Master Plan. Post subsequently edited after I found it.

AGS Airports (ie SOU owners) behind the project. They are going to need very deep pockets to get this development going!

As I note in my edited post, the intent is to put the access road in a cutting. It does not however indicate how the access road links up with the current highway infrastructure.

When Bl***y Awful Airports Plc bought the land they apparently thought it would be a very lucrative investment. At the time a new SE bypass for Eastleigh, between Bishopstoke Road and Southampton Road, was being planned. This was intended to provide the necessary access. However, this was dropped when it was realized that the cost was prohibitive due to a need for multiple river crossing bridges.
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