Southampton-3

[willy wombat]

Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot

Why does the very survival of the airport depend on a marginal runway extension? SOU's core bread and butter will surely remain what it has done well with in recent years? That is one VERY constrained site very close to Gatwick. It is what it is and that's fine, there's nothing wrong in being a decent niche.

Unusual for you, SOE, to not be on the ball, but SOU is not very close to LGW - it’s 70/80 miles away. It is significantly closer to LHR.

[Rivet Joint]

Originally Posted by Pain in the R's

It doesn’t. I doubt the extra flights a longer runway would bring would cover the cost of the extension. It is not as if SOU has an abundance of spare stands.

So the airport is just throwing it’s money down the drain according to you? Honestly, some people on here. Considering it’s owned by a pension fund, I can assure you they will have had to prove a business case for any investment so let’s leave it to the experts.

on a side note, I don’t know why the airport etc don’t make a point that larger planes are a good thing. For a start it could result in less flights. Rather than 4/5 flights a day with Logan it could be 2 with Easy. So less flights annoying residents. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if if A320Ns are quieter than the likes of ERJs. Maybe someone can fine the noise levels of various aircraft.

[Saabdriver1]

The market seems to want frequency though - I don't think the concept of replacing four flights a day with two bigger ones will strike a chord with many passengers.

And on the local noise levels, if they could sort out the bloody arrival routings onto R20 then that would be a good start. It can't help anyone.

[davidjohnson6]

Allowing bigger aircraft so 4 small aircraft can be turned into 2 larger aircraft as a way to reduce noise is the oldest airport trick in the book. Once you have a longer runway, those 2 large aircraft invariably turns into 4 large aircraft.

[SKOJB]

The point is however that the airport just don’t have the space for many larger aircraft. In the latest plans there are only 4 A320 size stands being made available so I think an operation like SEN have currently with EZY, ie based aircraft from the Med operating several times a week will be about your lot. Just don’t see where else they can put them all in the short term!

[TCAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Saabdriver1

........And on the local noise levels, if they could sort out the bloody arrival routings onto R20 then that would be a good start. It can't help anyone.

If you are referring to what in my working days I referred to as a "Winchester 2 arrival", whereby you get to see Winchester twice due to the orbit to lose height, that hopefully is coming. However due to the tortuosly slow Airpace Change Proposal process (delayed by Covid 19) currently taking place it could be a year or more away. To the current airport owner's credit they are the first to put up the money to get it sorted, so maybe are serious about a long term future for the airport?

[shamrock7seal]

RIVET JOINT, the noise levels for the ERJ-145 are around 78.7db versus a classic Airbus A320 of 82.7db (according to a report by the points guy). I don't have data for an A320NEO.

[Rivet Joint]

Originally Posted by shamrock7seal

RIVET JOINT, the noise levels for the ERJ-145 are around 78.7db versus a classic Airbus A320 of 82.7db (according to a report by the points guy). I don't have data for an A320NEO.

Just had a quick look and according to Airbus and Lufthansa the neo is around 50% quieter than the classic. If true then they could be quieter than the 50 seat RJs that these ignorant residents are fine with. I don’t blame the airport for trying to completely avoid the topic of larger aircraft as most people react before educating themselves nowadays. However, if it’s a fact that they are quieter then their argument falls away.

As to frequencies being preferable for business routes, that is a good point, but probably not post covid. Flexible working is the norm now and about time. Morning and evening flights to GLA, MAN, EDI etc would probably be fine.

[Rivet Joint]

Originally Posted by TCAS FAN

If you are referring to what in my working days I referred to as a "Winchester 2 arrival", whereby you get to see Winchester twice due to the orbit to lose height, that hopefully is coming. However due to the tortuosly slow Airpace Change Proposal process (delayed by Covid 19) currently taking place it could be a year or more away. To the current airport owner's credit they are the first to put up the money to get it sorted, so maybe are serious about a long term future for the airport?

Don’t most airports operate in this way? Can’t say I have seen many flights fly straight into an airport without some form turn or loop.

[Saabdriver1]

TCAS FAN, thank you. Yes, it was the "Winchester Wheel" I meant. Rivet Joint, most airports do have a standard arrival routing which involves some type of traditional base leg onto finals. This is a full 360 orbit which is a time-wasting, fuel-burning, noise-generating pain in the a**e.

[TCAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Saabdriver1

TCAS FAN, thank you. Yes, it was the "Winchester Wheel" I meant. Rivet Joint, most airports do have a standard arrival routing which involves some type of traditional base leg onto finals. This is a full 360 orbit which is a time-wasting, fuel-burning, noise-generating pain in the a**e.

The "Winchester 2" is only necessary due to a lack of controlled airspace to the north of the Solent CTA owing to the lower limit of Q41, which adjoins the CTA, being FL 65. Before the arrival of NATS. ATCOs could use discretion and offer a straight-in approach with what was then a Radar Advisory Service (now De-confliction). ATCO's discretion stopped by NATS with the result of many thousands of tonnes of fuel wasted and Co2 generated. Hopefully will be resolved if the current ACP is successful.

[Albert Hall]

Have Eastern just decided to take a holiday on SOU/MAN? Poster on another thread mentioned no flights last week but it seems
to be more than that - next available flight is 5 June and even that is at full fare only. Doubting that it’s nearly full, it suggests impending cancellation. What’s going on ?

[SKOJB]

Originally Posted by Albert Hall

Have Eastern just decided to take a holiday on SOU/MAN? Poster on another thread mentioned no flights last week but it seems
to be more than that - next available flight is 5 June and even that is at full fare only. Doubting that it’s nearly full, it suggests impending cancellation. What’s going on ?

The purple planes taking over?

[MARKEYD]

Not for the summer they haven’t

They can barely keep to the busy schedule here in Jersey that has just started
All there aircraft are fully committed

[brian_dromey]

Originally Posted by SKOJB

The purple planes taking over?

I dont think they have any MAN routes at all. Not even BHD-MAN, which is one of their two crew bases.

[MARKEYD]

The purple planes taking over?

Sorry , thought you were talking about Blue Islands !

[Rusty Irish]

Ryanair won't go near SOU. Their focus on the south coast is BOH. They are not interested in the high charges at AGS airports. Ripped their aircraft and routes from GLA for that very reason.

[SWBKCB]

It wants to be able to handle larger planes, carrying more passengers. The type of planes used by EasyJet or Ryanair to take people on sunshine holidays to Mediterranean beaches.

This is the quote from the BBC analysis. Doesn't say Ryanair or EasyJet will be operating from SOU, just that the extended runway will be able to operate those types of aircraft

Just had a quick look and according to Airbus and Lufthansa the neo is around 50% quieter than the classic.

Living under an airport approach which see both Classis and NEO 320's, I'm reminded of the saying "Lies, damn lies and statistics..."

[SKOJB]

Originally Posted by Rusty Irish

Ryanair won't go near SOU. Their focus on the south coast is BOH. They are not interested in the high charges at AGS airports. Ripped their aircraft and routes from GLA for that very reason.

Best news we’ve heard all day!

[Albert Hall]

Rusty Irish seems to have a particular vendetta against GLA and AGS. Ryanair did move its based aircraft out of GLA but still has a reasonable presence at both GLA and ABZ. Whether it could be more is a question for Ryanair and AGS - not everyone wants growth at any cost.