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Old 4th Apr 2024, 07:27
  #841 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pug
Why are HUY, NME and letís not forget SOU (which you now neglect to mention) poor comparisons? SEN too?

How is the number of airlines not relevant? It is directly relevant and is why all examples Iíve just provided have lost market share to other airports. Why? Because most airlines have chosen to consolidate at fewer, larger departure points. That is why, even though more passengers are travelling now than 20 years ago, theyíre flying with a smaller number of airlines and those airlines have chosen not to fly from CWL but BRS and cannot justify flying from both.

You can of course choose to disagree if you wish, but Iím offering empirical evidence and you appear stuck in a mindset not fitting of todayís operating environment. I suggest to you therefore that what CWL needs in order to grow in the way you appear to be championing, is new airlines entering the U.K. market, not a better management team at the airport.
I donít see HUY or MME as being so relevant as they have never really been of a size (pax wise) comparable to CWL. I made some points about SOU and SEN in earlier posts.

So, if I follow your train of thought through - the large airlines have chosen BRS and wonít operate at CWL and I donít see new entrants into the UK market, then the aviation related business of CWL looks pretty bleak. I donít see how non aviation businesses can make the airport a viable going concern.

i am going to bow out of the discussion as it would seem a lot of people feel management and leadership are entirely passive to the aviation part of this business. I take a different view as a customer of the airport and a taxpayer would like to see change and more transparent communication about a recovery business plan - whether that be aviation or non aviation growth. At the moment I see nothing and would like to see more than the maintenance of the status quo.

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Old 4th Apr 2024, 08:07
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Originally Posted by TOM100
I donít see HUY or MME as being so relevant as they have never really been of a size (pax wise) comparable to CWL. I made some points about SOU and SEN in earlier posts.

So, if I follow your train of thought through - the large airlines have chosen BRS and wonít operate at CWL and I donít see new entrants into the UK market, then the aviation related business of CWL looks pretty bleak. I donít see how non aviation businesses can make the airport a viable going concern.
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I think in your 2nd paragraph you have hit the nail firmly on the head. The clustering of airlines around particular larger airport is a fact. Airports such as Cardiff are going to struggle to attract large new based fleets. Managements can offer incentives galore but if airlines can't see a path to increasing market share and more importantly profit they aren't going to bite.

I absolutely get that Wales wants its capital to have a thriving airport but it isn't always possible. Take Bratislava as an example, overshadowed by Vienna, or Ljubljana neither of which enjoy enormously successful airports.

Best hope is for Cardiff to develop a niche for itself over and above passenger traffic. There is already the BA maintenance facility. Perhaps cargo could also be attracted, the freight sector isn't served by BRS to any degree.
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Old 4th Apr 2024, 09:30
  #843 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by TOM100
I donít see HUY or MME as being so relevant as they have never really been of a size (pax wise) comparable to CWL. I made some points about SOU and SEN in earlier posts.

So, if I follow your train of thought through - the large airlines have chosen BRS and wonít operate at CWL and I donít see new entrants into the UK market, then the aviation related business of CWL looks pretty bleak. I donít see how non aviation businesses can make the airport a viable going concern.

i am going to bow out of the discussion as it would seem a lot of people feel management and leadership are entirely passive to the aviation part of this business. I take a different view as a customer of the airport and a taxpayer would like to see change and more transparent communication about a recovery business plan - whether that be aviation or non aviation growth. At the moment I see nothing and would like to see more than the maintenance of the status quo.
The reason I used them as an example is that they all have over 1 million people within a 60 minute drive of the airport, had a lot more flights than they do now and ultimately lost market share to competitors when airlines consolidated at larger departure points. It is therefore directly relevant. The BRS CWL is not a level playing field, the airlines prefer to risk new routes from BRS because it can pull from a larger catchment area which includes South Wales. Therefore ATNotts conclusion is correct.

That is why I canít see how you conclude that the management are passive. You canít attract business that doesnít exist! I agree though, you have every right to question them as a tax payer, but they may find that other aviation revenue is needed and they can double down on the routes that are currently successful like the KLM.

Last edited by pug; 4th Apr 2024 at 09:53.
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Old 4th Apr 2024, 16:25
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Surely the economy and supply & demand play a bigger part in CWLs fortunes rather than the management or WG? Do we honestly think the management and WG want to run it into the ground to do themselves out of jobs and lose millions in investment on purpose?

As much as I want to see CWL thrive, we have the be realistic. Airlines are businesses and will invest where they can make money. At the moment there is obviously no confidence in the South Wales economy so they wonít take the risk.

if you owned a thriving shop in one location, would you open another where you may or may not make money just for the convenience of a small minority who will travel to your thriving shop anyway? I wouldnít until I had the confidence and research that both would thrive.

Last edited by shlamps; 4th Apr 2024 at 19:45.
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Old 4th Apr 2024, 16:29
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Absolutely - the easy option.

But look at TOM - expanding elsewhere but not at CWL, RYR - expanding elsewhere but not at CWL. What does that tell you? Maybe there is somenthing more fundamentally wrong than the social media strategy etc. Local economy, small/restricted catchement area, etc
I don't think it's all down to the airports social media.

All airlines use social media really well, maybe CWL just isn't offering the same deals as other airports.
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Old 4th Apr 2024, 17:41
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Originally Posted by shlamps
Surely the economy and supply & demand play a bigger part in CWLs fortunes rather than the management or WG? Do we honestly think the management and WG want to run it into the ground to do themselves out of jobs and lose millions in investment on purpose?

As much as I want to see CWL thrive, we have the be realistic. Airlines are businesses and will invest where they can make money. At the moment there is obviously no confidence in the South Wales economy so they wonít take the risk.

if you owned a thriving shop in one location, would you open another where you may or may not make money just for the convenience of a small minority who will travel to your thriving shop? I wouldnít until I had the confidence and research that both would thrive.
Well put
I would love to see CWL as a major airport with a regular connection to NQY I could then fly to YVR as I do often without the trek to London. The area just can't sustain that.
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Old 5th Apr 2024, 00:27
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Originally Posted by SealinkBF
I don't think it's all down to the airports social media.

All airlines use social media really well, maybe CWL just isn't offering the same deals as other airports.
TUI's flights are mostly going out full. Obviously that is never a sign that the yields are working, but when you combine that with everyones perception that CWL is always more expensive (side note - its not). Then it seems TUI must be making good money but aren't confident they can expand enough without diluting yields even more.
As for Vueling, Ryanair etc. Who knows? Posts on various forums about load factors are showing positive signs though.
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Old 5th Apr 2024, 14:41
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Is TUI maintaining 3 aircraft in CWL in 2025? I am wondering where they are getting the 2nd EXT aircraft from?
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Old 5th Apr 2024, 16:00
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Originally Posted by shamrock7seal
Is TUI maintaining 3 aircraft in CWL in 2025? I am wondering where they are getting the 2nd EXT aircraft from?
No signs that they are cutting any CWL schedules. The aircraft could be coming from anywhere, new Max deliveries, cuts elsewhere or another lease in for the summer season.
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Old 10th Apr 2024, 20:08
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More Ryanair expansion at Bristol...

The fault is the Welsh Government. I doubt they even want a successful airport. Doing so would hurt the environment....
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Old 12th Apr 2024, 08:37
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Originally Posted by Sean North
More Ryanair expansion at Bristol...

The fault is the Welsh Government. I doubt they even want a successful airport. Doing so would hurt the environment....
Is it? Why?

Ryanair have expanded at CWL. On a much smaller scale but it's still growth.
This constant comparison of CWL and BRS is tiring. You don't read similar articles comparing BRS and LHR or LGW.
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Old 12th Apr 2024, 13:57
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Originally Posted by Sean North
More Ryanair expansion at Bristol...

The fault is the Welsh Government. I doubt they even want a successful airport. Doing so would hurt the environment....
What you fail to take into account is the market at CWL. As one low cost airline CEO said to me, I can fill 6 aircraft in the Summer but nothing in the Winter. Serving CWL from other bases is the sensible way to match capacity with demand.
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Old 16th Apr 2024, 19:19
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Originally Posted by runway30
What you fail to take into account is the market at CWL. As one low cost airline CEO said to me, I can fill 6 aircraft in the Summer but nothing in the Winter. Serving CWL from other bases is the sensible way to match capacity with demand.
Airlines are not even doing that on any significant scale
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Old 16th Apr 2024, 22:32
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Originally Posted by Sean North
Airlines are not even doing that on any significant scale
No but what there is has been more sustainable than the based aircraft that have come and gone.
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Old 18th Apr 2024, 10:10
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Just posted by the ever brilliant @SeanM1997 on X so credit as always to him for the information

PLAY

ReykjavŪk KeflavŪk to Cardiff. Flights start 10 October 2024

OG380 KEF 0645-0940 CWL (Mon & Fri)

OG831 CWL 1040-1340 KEF (Mon & Fri)

Should hopefully please a few of the Cardiff faithful after a thread of negativity.
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Old 18th Apr 2024, 10:28
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Fly Play

New route announced:
Fly Play - Cardiff - Iceland with connections to the US.

Random dates available in October and November only, but hopefully will be made permanent in the future.
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Old 18th Apr 2024, 10:37
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Nice to see and read some good news for once about CWL, be it a small programme it is still a positive !!

Be great if CWL has the same success securing SunExpress as that would be even better and most probably a longer programme of flights too.

I can see Play has been added to Wikipedia already - though Freebird are also operating for TUI this year to AYT (under their own flight numbers not TUI)Ö..can someone not add this onto Wikipedia too as they seem to be missed off the list.

Last edited by Letsflycwl; 18th Apr 2024 at 10:49.
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Old 18th Apr 2024, 11:19
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Originally Posted by caaardiff

Random dates available in October and November only, but hopefully will be made permanent in the future.
News reports say to coincide with half-term
Play chief executive Einar Orn Olafsson said: “Our new route from Cardiff to Iceland is the first direct flight between the two destinations. Not only does this mark a milestone for Play, but also opens up exciting possibilities for customers wanting to travel to the US and Canada at affordable prices. Our new Cardiff route is ideal for families seeking to explore all that Iceland has to offer during the school half-term, as well as enthusiastic football fans eager to watch Iceland versus Wales in the upcoming Nations League later this year.”
https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/play-l...-cardiff-45901
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Old 18th Apr 2024, 11:56
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
News reports say to coincide with half-term

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/play-l...-cardiff-45901
Which I do find a bit strange given that there's regular end of term and half term holidays in the UK, but you rarely here a new Airline launch a route to cater for school holidays. A one off for the football is something else, but not 6 weeks of flights.
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Old 18th Apr 2024, 12:06
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Excellent to see Play at CWL, but I find the dates and duration very odd, and if anything they restrict many potential PAX. A summer season with a proper schedule is needed if they are to gauge demand imo.

I hope I'm wrong, but I fear we'll have them for these few weeks then never see them again.
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