Cardiff-3

[caaardiff]

What's the setup at St Athan? If I remember correctly the WG don't own it, but Cardiff Airport operates it? That would surely bring in some income

[LTNman]

Cardiff Airport continuing to make losses https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-68294274

[Letsflycwl]

Eastern Airways are switching both EMA & SOU routes from ORY to CDG as of end of March.

No mention or reference to them switching the CWL service to CDG. ORY due to end at this time too.

Come on CWL, what on earth are you doing to secure this route? CDG is definitely needed as much better for connections and a better airport full stop to ORY.

Ideally I’d love AF to serve the route but until then Eastern was/is CWL only hope.

I wonder if something is happening behind the scenes between CWL, T3 & AF or is this another nail in the CWL coffin??

[SKOJB]

Originally Posted by Letsflycwl

Eastern Airways are switching both EMA & SOU routes from ORY to CDG as of end of March.

No mention or reference to them switching the CWL service to CDG. ORY due to end at this time too.

Come on CWL, what on earth are you doing to secure this route? CDG is definitely needed as much better for connections and a better airport full stop to ORY.

Ideally I’d love AF to serve the route but until then Eastern was/is CWL only hope.

I wonder if something is happening behind the scenes between CWL, T3 & AF or is this another nail in the CWL coffin??

The fact that nothing is on sale after end March leads you to believe Paris is ending, however I hope for CWL sake this is not the case

[runway30]

Originally Posted by Letsflycwl

Eastern Airways are switching both EMA & SOU routes from ORY to CDG as of end of March.

No mention or reference to them switching the CWL service to CDG. ORY due to end at this time too.

Come on CWL, what on earth are you doing to secure this route? CDG is definitely needed as much better for connections and a better airport full stop to ORY.

Ideally I’d love AF to serve the route but until then Eastern was/is CWL only hope.

I wonder if something is happening behind the scenes between CWL, T3 & AF or is this another nail in the CWL coffin??

AF has never wanted to compete for transfer traffic with KLM on Amsterdam. On the other hand KLM have reduced their frequency to Amsterdam, perhaps in anticipation of losing passengers to CDG. You can take your pick but with CWL at the moment my view would be pessimistic rather than optimistic.

[SKOJB]

Originally Posted by runway30

AF has never wanted to compete for transfer traffic with KLM on Amsterdam. On the other hand KLM have reduced their frequency to Amsterdam, perhaps in anticipation of losing passengers to CDG. You can take your pick but with CWL at the moment my view would be pessimistic rather than optimistic.

In which case that doesn’t make sense as SOU has an additional KLM daily on the way and CDG just added

[Letsflycwl]

Originally Posted by runway30

AF has never wanted to compete for transfer traffic with KLM on Amsterdam. On the other hand KLM have reduced their frequency to Amsterdam, perhaps in anticipation of losing passengers to CDG. You can take your pick but with CWL at the moment my view would be pessimistic rather than optimistic.

My thoughts exactly…..with KL reducing x1 flight a day for S24, could we actually see AF doing a CDG to compensate as part of the AF/KL alliance in a bid to keep the passengers?

Unless the negotiations are still ongoing with T3 (on behalf of AF as per ORY was).

We can’t afford to loose another route !!!

[davidjohnson6]

CAA stats for December 2023 on the route to Paris Orly:
Cardiff - 1,115 pax
East Midlands - 1,808 pax
Southampton - 1,871 pax

CWL saw 29 round trips in Dec-2023, while EMA and SOU each saw 30 round trips. Thus average pax load per one way flight is
Cardiff - 19 pax
East Midlands - 30 pax
Southampton - 31 pax

Aircraft on all 3 routes was (generally) a 72 seat ATR

As a comparison:
Bristol - Orly saw 11,250 pax and Bristol - CDG saw 27,159 pax (both are flown solely by Easyjet)
Cardiff - Amsterdam saw 9,642 pax and Southampton - Amsterdam saw 6,502 pax

I know load factors without yields tell only part of the story... but I think this is enough of the story to draw basic conclusions

[Markushillman]

Credit to @SeanM1997 on X

But he confirms the Paris route is gone from the end of March

[caaardiff]

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6

CAA stats for December 2023 on the route to Paris Orly:
Cardiff - 1,115 pax
East Midlands - 1,808 pax
Southampton - 1,871 pax

CWL saw 29 round trips in Dec-2023, while EMA and SOU each saw 30 round trips. Thus average pax load per one way flight is
Cardiff - 19 pax
East Midlands - 30 pax
Southampton - 31 pax

Aircraft on all 3 routes was (generally) a 72 seat ATR

As a comparison:
Bristol - Orly saw 11,250 pax and Bristol - CDG saw 27,159 pax (both are flown solely by Easyjet)
Cardiff - Amsterdam saw 9,642 pax and Southampton - Amsterdam saw 6,502 pax

I know load factors without yields tell only part of the story... but I think this is enough of the story to draw basic conclusions

Something is seriously wrong when you look at those figures. CWL carrying just 10% of what EZY ORY carried, without even considering the CDG numbers. CWL just needed 800 more passengers to have carried more than SOU and EMA. I don't recall Easterns prices being too cheap either so the yield wouldn't have been part of the reason.

Go back to Dec 2019 and BE carried 4179 passengers, so the potential is there, just being lost to other Airports. In 2019 overall 71,000 people used CDG.
Eastern were never going to be the exact answer, but they could've performed better on the route. There was next to no advertising and Eastern aren't known for being cheap.

AMS is still a mystery when CWL carried more passengers than similar sized Airports that maintain their 3x daily departures.

[The Ex Flyer]

One of the issues with CWL- ORY-CWL, is the wrong timings. There are no flights on Saturdays or they get cancelled, and Mon-Fri who would want to fly to Paris dept CWL at 15.40 arr in ORY at 18.30? Weekend breaks needs Sat morning departures. Business travel or connecting flights need earlier departures out of CWL and more frequent. Plus 1 hour 50 min flight time on a turboprop when from BRS you can hop on a jet, better frequency, better timings and fares. Almost set up to fail.

[fanrailuk]

Originally Posted by The Ex Flyer

One of the issues with CWL- ORY-CWL, is the wrong timings. There are no flights on Saturdays or they get cancelled, and Mon-Fri who would want to fly to Paris dept CWL at 15.40 arr in ORY at 18.30? Weekend breaks needs Sat morning departures. Business travel or connecting flights need earlier departures out of CWL and more frequent. Plus 1 hour 50 min flight time on a turboprop when from BRS you can hop on a jet, better frequency, better timings and fares. Almost set up to fail.

…do you know davidjohnson6 by chance?

[Letsflycwl]

Could we be seeing Eastern start CWL-CDG sometime soon in the future ?? Eastern have referenced CWL flights in the Travel Weekly as ceasing Paris flights in the “short term” from CWL as only obtaining slots (so far) for EMA & SOU. The link in on the Eastern thread.

“Eastern Airways is has secured rare slots at Paris Charles de Gaulle airport to enable two UK regional links to switch from Paris Orly.

The move will enable the airline to connect to Europe’s third busiest airport from both East Midlands and Southampton with services operated in partnership with Air France.

But a Cardiff-Paris Orly service will cease “in the short-term” as only two take off and landing slot were freed for Eastern at Charles de Gaulle”.

[CWL757]

Originally Posted by Letsflycwl

Could we be seeing Eastern start CWL-CDG sometime soon in the future ?? Eastern have referenced CWL flights in the Travel Weekly as ceasing Paris flights in the “short term” from CWL as only obtaining slots (so far) for EMA & SOU.

It'd be nice to think it's just temporary, but to me it seems more of a way of softening the blow of saying its been axed, with the old "It's not our fault " Hope im wrong though.

[Sean North]

NEW PRESS RELEASE. Things are looking up

[Sotonsean]

Surely, the article should have stated the flight being once a week flight rather than daily?

It's not daily, is it?

If not, it's a huge error on behalf of TUI.

It's great for Cardiff to see a long anticipated resumption of service to Malta.

[MARKEYD]

You need to look at the date mate
Cant say it’s that funny though to be honest !!

[Sotonsean]

Originally Posted by MARKEYD

You need to look at the date mate
Cant say it’s that funny though to be honest !!

I had completely overlooked the date. For someone who doesn't indulge in such stuff, I hadn't given it a second thought.

That's the second time I've been "stung" here on pprune today. I'll make sure there's not a third time 🙂

[Sean North]

I was going to write about an airline axing a service at Cardiff but decided that was far too believable and realistic

[jensdad]

Originally Posted by MARKEYD

You need to look at the date mate
Cant say it’s that funny though to be honest !!

Agreed. It's not exactly up there with BBC Nationwide's Spaghetti trees is it?