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Old 3rd Apr 2023, 18:57
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Originally Posted by Rutan16
Confirmed tax and liability exercise

Didnít BA do something similar with British Airways Limited owning some of their slots ?
The LCY-JFK A318 operation was operated by British Airways Limited for a time, had small titles on the nose. Sorry, for the thread drift, thanks for the info.
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Old 3rd Apr 2023, 19:32
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Confirmed tax and liability exercise
If you can't be bothered to understand it and keep posting rubbish, then there's truly no point in trying to explain. It's nothing to do with tax or liability.

And Skip - BA did work on something similar - which is why the A318 was on the British Airways (BA) - also known as "BABA" - AOC for a while. For whatever reason, the BA bond issue did not work out and the structure was folded back into BA, whereas the bond issue did work out for Virgin with VAIL.
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Old 3rd Apr 2023, 19:52
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Originally Posted by Flightrider
If you can't be bothered to understand it and keep posting rubbish, then there's truly no point in trying to explain. It's nothing to do with tax or liability.

And Skip - BA did work on something similar - which is why the A318 was on the British Airways (BA) - also known as "BABA" - AOC for a while. For whatever reason, the BA bond issue did not work out and the structure was folded back into BA, whereas the bond issue did work out for Virgin with VAIL.
Btw I was me that pointed out the Virgin International operation upstream!

And you have only posted a link to a news item and a string of uninformative no it isnít comments, literally no explanations given by you so far !

You could explain for the benefit of others mate; however personally couldnít give a crap about the minutiae of these financial vehicles to be honest .

Mortgaging slots for finance as the carrier was strapped for cash (also noted in my previous post!)

For Joe Public they have little to no visibility !

They are exoteric methods of moving money and hiding ownership

Virgin International ( UK) posted a pathetic £55k ( I presume fees!) for 2021 on turnover of just over £100k

As the slots are mortgaged one also presumes Virgin Group has a massive internal invoicing system moving funds across differing businesses ( of couse it does !)

So you canít tell me there isnít tax and liability avoidance going on !

Yes bond holders are milking the carrier in dividendsí a carrier that rarely records a profit in its own reports .

However Iíll leave it there as the prime reason for the thread was generally in relation to the ten 333s and a rather general spotter/enthusiast generated post


Last edited by Rutan16; 5th Apr 2023 at 10:57.
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Old 4th Apr 2023, 08:25
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Ahh - Virgin accounting - many years ago the Economist published an investigation into that subject.

Sir Richard's Empire has a multitude of brands across a vast number of industries and even more companies and countries. They all do a great deal of inter-company business. At the time it was remarked that many of them have different financial year ends.

It seemed to be considered rather opaque and impossible to get a full view of what the situation really was.

A masterpiece of financial engineering.
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Old 14th Apr 2023, 13:15
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The based Aer Lingus UK A321 has gone back to Dublin fleet?
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Old 14th Apr 2023, 13:19
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I see jet2 went back to split terminal ops again last week for the summer. I still think it will be interesting to see how MAN copes with just the new 2nd T2 pier added when T1 closes.
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Old 14th Apr 2023, 13:28
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Looks like Gulf Air increasing from 2 x weekly to 4 x weekly from May
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Old 14th Apr 2023, 14:23
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
The based Aer Lingus UK A321 has gone back to Dublin fleet?
Due back in DUB on the 21st on the Irish registry after a 'C' check by STS at MAN.
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Old 14th Apr 2023, 14:41
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Originally Posted by The96er
Due back in DUB on the 21st on the Irish registry after a 'C' check by STS at MAN.
Many thanks!
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Old 15th Apr 2023, 21:17
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Aer Lingus A333 G-EIDY has been tech the last few days. Apparently it is awaiting a component for a FADEC. A Wamos A330 was leased in to operate the Bridgetown flight yesterday. EI A333 EI-DUZ positioned over this evening to fill in until the part arrives. All very unfortunate timing. At one point EI had 3 x A333s & 1 x A332 out of action last week; EI-EIK ingested a flock of pigeons on climb out from DUB, EI-FNH had an engine oil leak and diverted into KEF and EI-DAA got clobbered by some ground equipment in YYZ. EIDY and DAA are both still out of service.
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Old 15th Apr 2023, 22:01
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Blimey, the overtime bill for Aer Lingus engineers must be huge. Kerching!
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Old 16th Apr 2023, 17:17
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Virgin group

I once heard a senior person say Branson would end up looking like a certain newspaper proprietor

Originally Posted by Asturias56
Ahh - Virgin accounting - many years ago the Economist published an investigation into that subject.

Sir Richard's Empire has a multitude of brands across a vast number of industries and even more companies and countries. They all do a great deal of inter-company business. At the time it was remarked that many of them have different financial year ends.

It seemed to be considered rather opaque and impossible to get a full view of what the situation really was.

A masterpiece of financial engineering.
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Old 17th Apr 2023, 12:22
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Too clever I think............ he certainly seems to be able to run rings round other businessmen in many of the industries he's dabbled in over the years.
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Old 18th Apr 2023, 11:35
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Have Eastern canned the Southampton route? Nothing seems to be bookable on their website.
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Old 19th Apr 2023, 07:18
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Might as well they are useless but they plan to re start after summer

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Old 19th Apr 2023, 15:48
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Four month suspension on MAN-SOU, I believe. Absolutely useless. We have nothing to EXT either. Come on Loganair ... take a look!!!
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Old 19th Apr 2023, 16:22
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Originally Posted by OzzyOzBorn
Four month suspension on MAN-SOU, I believe. Absolutely useless. We have nothing to EXT either. Come on Loganair ... take a look!!!
I think Loganair is too busy expanding operations out of LHR. That has a familiar ring about it for another airline we need to do more at MAN, as it used to.
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Old 19th Apr 2023, 16:56
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The promised return of twice daily Eastern MAN-SOU lasted about a week before the early rotation was canned, now the complete suspension again. Wish someone reliable came back here. Trains are useless, unreliable & expensive. From a one time 6 daily (BE) route to zero is prettty poor show. Logan or Blue Island need to get on here.
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Old 19th Apr 2023, 18:15
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Canít honestly see either operators on that route. Loganair in particular I doubt would have the frames for a high frequency prime time service, unless something else was canned.
What is the target market and fare premium?
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Old 19th Apr 2023, 18:37
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Agreed, Loganair haven't currently got spare fleet capacity, though those LHR services are largely switched from other London-area airports rather than representing new seats. But most healthy companies have a strategy for growth, and certain routes represent low-hanging fruit on that count. As Mr A Tis pointed out, MAN-SOU supported upto six Q400's daily pre-covid. Nobody is suggesting that this level of capacity would be appropriate now, but neither is zero. The journey between Manchester and Southampton is an expensive and challenging one. Plenty of travellers need to make that journey and, aside from self-drive, the options aren't great. There is money to be made by the right operator, offering reliability and a fair but profitable tariff. That doesn't mean the sort of fare one could fly Manchester to New York for!
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