Manchester-3
Iberia Mainline operated MAN until the early naughties with the A320.
I think the route probably ended around the time when much of IB at BCN transferred to the Vueling/click.
I seem to remember the route back then being a double drop BCN/MAD though I may well have dreamt that.
I think the route probably ended around the time when much of IB at BCN transferred to the Vueling/click.
I seem to remember the route back then being a double drop BCN/MAD though I may well have dreamt that.
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Iberia/Aviaco visits long predate to 80s !
Go right back to the late 60s, With props DC7 and Constellations through Caravelle, DC-8, DC-9, DC-8 ( super) for Aviaco on inclusive tour ( charters)
Schedules services started with mid seventies and the initial service was indeed three weekly to Madrid and onwards to Malaga with Iberia DC-9s this was supplemented with a further 3 weekly Barcelona and onwards to Madrid service at some point.
With the arrivals of the MD87 the service dropped the Malaga legs and all flights routed via Barcelona for a very long time
Larger MD80s would sometimes operate even Aviaco ones for Iberia ( a reversal on the previous decades). Subsequently the mad dogs were replaced with Airbus models .
Iberia Boeing 727s were always rare at Manchester (through I remember a series of midnight charters at some point ) probably they were considered to premium heavy
The service remained constant ( through times changed) until the IAG merger and the subsequent sale of BA Regional assets .
At its highest Madrid would have several BA ( IB codeshares ) to Madrid per day and IB to Barcelona ( BA codeshare) at Manchester , and something similar at Birmingham.
With the sale to Flybe Manchester (and Birmingham) lost their Madrid connection for a period of time
Then Easyjet and Air Nostrum (IB regional ) took on the challenge and priced the route into the ground
Both left and a vacancy remained
Subsequently Ryanair took on the route and Iberia again would return with a low frequency service using Express and that is where we are today.
Iberia Express you might initially think are feed operation for the parent however their schedules and fare structures suggest otherwise.
In fact the Vueling services provide more connections particularly domestically from Barcelona indeed pricing wise potentially back North East into the rump EU as well.
Go right back to the late 60s, With props DC7 and Constellations through Caravelle, DC-8, DC-9, DC-8 ( super) for Aviaco on inclusive tour ( charters)
Schedules services started with mid seventies and the initial service was indeed three weekly to Madrid and onwards to Malaga with Iberia DC-9s this was supplemented with a further 3 weekly Barcelona and onwards to Madrid service at some point.
With the arrivals of the MD87 the service dropped the Malaga legs and all flights routed via Barcelona for a very long time
Larger MD80s would sometimes operate even Aviaco ones for Iberia ( a reversal on the previous decades). Subsequently the mad dogs were replaced with Airbus models .
Iberia Boeing 727s were always rare at Manchester (through I remember a series of midnight charters at some point ) probably they were considered to premium heavy
The service remained constant ( through times changed) until the IAG merger and the subsequent sale of BA Regional assets .
At its highest Madrid would have several BA ( IB codeshares ) to Madrid per day and IB to Barcelona ( BA codeshare) at Manchester , and something similar at Birmingham.
With the sale to Flybe Manchester (and Birmingham) lost their Madrid connection for a period of time
Then Easyjet and Air Nostrum (IB regional ) took on the challenge and priced the route into the ground
Both left and a vacancy remained
Subsequently Ryanair took on the route and Iberia again would return with a low frequency service using Express and that is where we are today.
Iberia Express you might initially think are feed operation for the parent however their schedules and fare structures suggest otherwise.
In fact the Vueling services provide more connections particularly domestically from Barcelona indeed pricing wise potentially back North East into the rump EU as well.
Last edited by Rutan16; 5th Mar 2023 at 07:23.
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easyflyer83 just thought I'd say you may well be right about the BCN/MAD ops at MAN as I remember BHX-BCN/MAD Iberia DC9 operating towards late 80's onwards (not daily but IIRC about 5 weekly) I worked for a big IT company based in Worcestershire and we had a big deal with Telefonica and it was used. frequently with our respective staff. Not MAN info I know but I thought it might help?
Iberia/Aviaco visits long predate to 80s !
Go right back to the late 60s, With props DC7 and Constellations through Caravelle, DC-8, DC-9, DC-8 ( super) for Aviaco on inclusive tour ( charters)
Schedules services started with mid seventies and the initial service was indeed three weekly to Madrid and onwards to Malaga with Iberia DC-9s this was supplemented with a further 3 weekly Barcelona and onwards to Madrid service at some point.
With the arrivals of the MD87 the service dropped the Malaga legs and all flights routed via Barcelona for a very long time
Larger MD80s would sometimes operate even Aviaco ones for Iberia ( a reversal on the previous decades). Subsequently the mad dogs were replaced with Airbus models .
Iberia Boeing 727s were always rare at Manchester (through I remember a series of midnight charters at some point ) probably they were considered to premium heavy
The service remained constant ( through times changed) until the IAG merger and the subsequent sale of BA Regional assets .
At its highest Madrid would have several BA ( IB codeshares ) to Madrid per day and IB to Barcelona ( BA codeshare) at Manchester , and something similar at Birmingham.
With the sale to Flybe Manchester (and Birmingham) lost their Madrid connection for a period of time
Then Easyjet and Air Nostrum (IB regional ) took on the challenge and priced the route into the ground
Both left and a vacancy remained
Subsequently Ryanair took on the route and Iberia again would return with a low frequency service using Express and that is where we are today.
Iberia Express you might initially think are feed operation for the parent however their schedules and fare structures suggest otherwise.
In fact the Vueling services provide more connections particularly domestically from Barcelona indeed pricing wise potentially back North East into the rump EU as well.
Go right back to the late 60s, With props DC7 and Constellations through Caravelle, DC-8, DC-9, DC-8 ( super) for Aviaco on inclusive tour ( charters)
Schedules services started with mid seventies and the initial service was indeed three weekly to Madrid and onwards to Malaga with Iberia DC-9s this was supplemented with a further 3 weekly Barcelona and onwards to Madrid service at some point.
With the arrivals of the MD87 the service dropped the Malaga legs and all flights routed via Barcelona for a very long time
Larger MD80s would sometimes operate even Aviaco ones for Iberia ( a reversal on the previous decades). Subsequently the mad dogs were replaced with Airbus models .
Iberia Boeing 727s were always rare at Manchester (through I remember a series of midnight charters at some point ) probably they were considered to premium heavy
The service remained constant ( through times changed) until the IAG merger and the subsequent sale of BA Regional assets .
At its highest Madrid would have several BA ( IB codeshares ) to Madrid per day and IB to Barcelona ( BA codeshare) at Manchester , and something similar at Birmingham.
With the sale to Flybe Manchester (and Birmingham) lost their Madrid connection for a period of time
Then Easyjet and Air Nostrum (IB regional ) took on the challenge and priced the route into the ground
Both left and a vacancy remained
Subsequently Ryanair took on the route and Iberia again would return with a low frequency service using Express and that is where we are today.
Iberia Express you might initially think are feed operation for the parent however their schedules and fare structures suggest otherwise.
In fact the Vueling services provide more connections particularly domestically from Barcelona indeed pricing wise potentially back North East into the rump EU as well.
MAD was indeed unserved for a number of years (BER was in a similar situation at the time) and then IB and EZY jumped on the route with Ryanair also overlapping. It was a case of poor timing.
Iberia/Aviaco visits long predate to 80s !
Go right back to the late 60s, With props DC7 and Constellations through Caravelle, DC-8, DC-9, DC-8 ( super) for Aviaco on inclusive tour ( charters)
Go right back to the late 60s, With props DC7 and Constellations through Caravelle, DC-8, DC-9, DC-8 ( super) for Aviaco on inclusive tour ( charters)
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Iberia had a scheduled service to Manchester in 1965/66 from Palma via Barcelona on a Caravelle twice a week with arrival in Manchester about 10pm. I think it was a summer service only.
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Last Iberia flight was Man to Barcelona in August 2003, I cannot remember the A/C type though. They are not a carrier I use.
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Mr Mac
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Definitely DC9s operated in 1986 - I used to turn them round. Also operated charters to Palma on a Saturday night (may have been with Aviaco flight numbers). From what I remember they were mostly A300s, but I think there was the occasional DC10.
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easyflyer83
Thanks for confirming type. I spend a lot of time on A320 in Europe so they do tend to blur a little.
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Mr Mac
Thanks for confirming type. I spend a lot of time on A320 in Europe so they do tend to blur a little.
Cheers
Mr Mac
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easyflyer83 just thought I'd say you may well be right about the BCN/MAD ops at MAN as I remember BHX-BCN/MAD Iberia DC9 operating towards late 80's onwards (not daily but IIRC about 5 weekly) I worked for a big IT company based in Worcestershire and we had a big deal with Telefonica and it was used. frequently with our respective staff. Not MAN info I know but I thought it might help?
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US/Canada ?
Read this forum for a while. Wanted to post my thoughts on the future of the US/Canada at MAN. Realistically there may not be much expansion at all for the next 3 seasons, although this is everything that I think is even remotely possible for the next years down the line. Optimistic, I know most of these probably won't happen..
American: Understandably not here. 767, 757, a330 decimated through covid + 787 delays .. PHL i anticipate to return S24 at the absolute earliest if they get more 788s .. Perhaps even with the EIUK codeshare they may opt to get rid of the very strange DFW-DUB route (focus DUB codeshare traffic through ORD?) and reposition that 788 to PHL-MAN? Who knows. Once they start getting some 321XLRs.. CLT would be neat especially with that meeting & partnership with North Carolina signed a few weeks ago.. ORD and JFK would be very nice additions although it may cannibalise with Aer Lingus on these routes.
Delta: Obvious serious lack of ambition from the VS/DL cohort anywhere outside of LHR/EDI from the start of covid up until now. I think ATL will come at some point (maybe even W23??) on A330, taking on the route from VS who have obvious issues, with the route being suspended for months, and with the new entry of Virgin into Skyteam, think BOS coming eventually (S24 to counter the inevitable EI launch?) whether it be Virgin or Delta. JFK could always happen but I feel that is down to what Virgin do. Other delta hubs; SEA a possibility? Was served by TCX for a while.
Aer Lingus: The absolute strongpoint when it comes to expansion @MAN. Once they get some more of those 321s I see the inevitable launch of BOS, ORD, IAD, with their CEO stating Manchester will see 'many folds of growth'. It could be that EI grab some A330neos at some point, which could free up even more A330-300s for MAN, and those 321s could go towards expanding EIUK at other airports, GLA and BHX being the most likely in my opinion. Distant shots at West Coast short term, although that would probably mean JFK reverting to 321 ops for a while. YYZ also possible with 321.
Virgin: As stated in the Delta bit, serious lack of ambition as of recent. Obviously the losses of 340 and 744s were hugely hit, I mean it made them leave LGW entirely, we're lucky that they haven't consolidated to just LHR yet. Also, as previously said, I think the ATL route will swap over to Delta pretty soon, which would free up a based aircraft & could realise the dream of a West Coast route once again, namely one of LAS/LAX/SFO.. More on the West Coast, I think those are more Virgin routes than Delta routes, but who knows?
United: EWR feels a given for S24. Of course we all expected it for this S23 season, obviously it was held back. I believe the conditions will be right for a daily EWR service perhaps with a mix of 757 and 767 throughout the year. ORD and IAD could happen maybe a few seasons down the line as a summer seasonal or something. With this huge order of Dreamliners I feel that routes such as LAX and SFO, while being highly unlikely for a few years at least, aren't totally out of the picture for 4/5 years down the line, especially if Virgin fail to capitalise on these open routes
JetBlue: Very likely addition, probably 2024 too, after AMS i can see Lisbon maybe Dublin then Manchester. Daily BOS and JFK on A321.
Air Canada: Why the hell aren't they back at year-round yet? If it helps, they're going back to daily A330 on YYZ-MAN for this summer. I don't see anything else from AC.
Air Transat: Kudos to them for keeping YYZ year round. Believe they are increasing frequencies this summer to 6 per week, according to ACL. A330 year round would be nice, YUL on A321neo possible? There isn't much in way of demand for Montreal, but then again something like 3x weekly seasonal could be something they'd try.
WestJet: Launching Edinburgh from Calgary this summer. Feel as if that will suck up quite a good bit of the demand for a possible MAN route as well. Time will tell.
Others: Jet2 could be a candidate for EWR once the 321neos start coming online, maybe even with the leased 330s. Norse Atlantic I feel will go bust soon but JFK, FLL would be nice. BA is distinct - I see them basing a few 320s at MAN anyway for Euroflyer operations, perhaps they could send a couple of Gatwick config 777s to test the waters on routes like BGI that could even be taken over from EI. Breeze of the USA for some A220 route into a smaller East Coast US airport, they have stated their ambitions of transatlantic to a 'regional airport in England'.
Overall, 75% of these routes may never happen. But I think the deep sinkhole that has opened for TATL at MAN these past years means that there will be nothing but growth - so it doesn't hurt to be a little optimistic. A realistic view however? United-EWR/Delta-ATL/Aer Lingus-ORD+BOS for S24 would start to fill this hole. Let's hope that there will be a meaningful recovery of this decimated part of the network for the next few years ...
American: Understandably not here. 767, 757, a330 decimated through covid + 787 delays .. PHL i anticipate to return S24 at the absolute earliest if they get more 788s .. Perhaps even with the EIUK codeshare they may opt to get rid of the very strange DFW-DUB route (focus DUB codeshare traffic through ORD?) and reposition that 788 to PHL-MAN? Who knows. Once they start getting some 321XLRs.. CLT would be neat especially with that meeting & partnership with North Carolina signed a few weeks ago.. ORD and JFK would be very nice additions although it may cannibalise with Aer Lingus on these routes.
Delta: Obvious serious lack of ambition from the VS/DL cohort anywhere outside of LHR/EDI from the start of covid up until now. I think ATL will come at some point (maybe even W23??) on A330, taking on the route from VS who have obvious issues, with the route being suspended for months, and with the new entry of Virgin into Skyteam, think BOS coming eventually (S24 to counter the inevitable EI launch?) whether it be Virgin or Delta. JFK could always happen but I feel that is down to what Virgin do. Other delta hubs; SEA a possibility? Was served by TCX for a while.
Aer Lingus: The absolute strongpoint when it comes to expansion @MAN. Once they get some more of those 321s I see the inevitable launch of BOS, ORD, IAD, with their CEO stating Manchester will see 'many folds of growth'. It could be that EI grab some A330neos at some point, which could free up even more A330-300s for MAN, and those 321s could go towards expanding EIUK at other airports, GLA and BHX being the most likely in my opinion. Distant shots at West Coast short term, although that would probably mean JFK reverting to 321 ops for a while. YYZ also possible with 321.
Virgin: As stated in the Delta bit, serious lack of ambition as of recent. Obviously the losses of 340 and 744s were hugely hit, I mean it made them leave LGW entirely, we're lucky that they haven't consolidated to just LHR yet. Also, as previously said, I think the ATL route will swap over to Delta pretty soon, which would free up a based aircraft & could realise the dream of a West Coast route once again, namely one of LAS/LAX/SFO.. More on the West Coast, I think those are more Virgin routes than Delta routes, but who knows?
United: EWR feels a given for S24. Of course we all expected it for this S23 season, obviously it was held back. I believe the conditions will be right for a daily EWR service perhaps with a mix of 757 and 767 throughout the year. ORD and IAD could happen maybe a few seasons down the line as a summer seasonal or something. With this huge order of Dreamliners I feel that routes such as LAX and SFO, while being highly unlikely for a few years at least, aren't totally out of the picture for 4/5 years down the line, especially if Virgin fail to capitalise on these open routes
JetBlue: Very likely addition, probably 2024 too, after AMS i can see Lisbon maybe Dublin then Manchester. Daily BOS and JFK on A321.
Air Canada: Why the hell aren't they back at year-round yet? If it helps, they're going back to daily A330 on YYZ-MAN for this summer. I don't see anything else from AC.
Air Transat: Kudos to them for keeping YYZ year round. Believe they are increasing frequencies this summer to 6 per week, according to ACL. A330 year round would be nice, YUL on A321neo possible? There isn't much in way of demand for Montreal, but then again something like 3x weekly seasonal could be something they'd try.
WestJet: Launching Edinburgh from Calgary this summer. Feel as if that will suck up quite a good bit of the demand for a possible MAN route as well. Time will tell.
Others: Jet2 could be a candidate for EWR once the 321neos start coming online, maybe even with the leased 330s. Norse Atlantic I feel will go bust soon but JFK, FLL would be nice. BA is distinct - I see them basing a few 320s at MAN anyway for Euroflyer operations, perhaps they could send a couple of Gatwick config 777s to test the waters on routes like BGI that could even be taken over from EI. Breeze of the USA for some A220 route into a smaller East Coast US airport, they have stated their ambitions of transatlantic to a 'regional airport in England'.
Overall, 75% of these routes may never happen. But I think the deep sinkhole that has opened for TATL at MAN these past years means that there will be nothing but growth - so it doesn't hurt to be a little optimistic. A realistic view however? United-EWR/Delta-ATL/Aer Lingus-ORD+BOS for S24 would start to fill this hole. Let's hope that there will be a meaningful recovery of this decimated part of the network for the next few years ...
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Movement on this subject! PHL CEO is pushing American to relaunch both Manchester and Edinburgh in 2024. Could be that both United and American return next year.
And if Virgin Atlantic can't resolve their ongoing fleet and crewing availability, it would be good to see Delta take back direct control of the MAN-ATL route too. Release the Virgin aircraft to reopen Las Vegas and / or a West Coast route.
G-VEII arrived from Toulouse on delivery into LHR today so that's one more frame. The reason MAN-ATL went to VS was that it lowered the operating costs by using a UK carrier on the joint venture. There's absolutely no guarantee any released airframe would stay at MAN sadly, they go where they can make the most money.