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BA Cityflyer-2

Old 15th May 2020, 09:11
  #241 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jamestkirk View Post
I am only guessing that there is a group of clueless people in BA, wandering the halls, thinking they are the masters of management, saying we can get £x on the bottom line by reducing the terms and conditions for pilots as they have nowhere to go. Good luck with that strategy as they will repay you in kind when the chance arises.
Or alternatively, there are a group of very well informed and skilled airline managers at BA who have successfully built a very profitable business thinking, how on earth can we avoid administration and bankruptcy of our business and the loss of every pilots job in the face of the biggest event to ever affect the industry.

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Old 15th May 2020, 09:18
  #242 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun View Post
Or alternatively, there are a group of very well informed and skilled airline managers at BA who have successfully built a very profitable business thinking, how on earth can we avoid administration and bankruptcy of our business and the loss of every pilots job in the face of the biggest event to ever affect the industry.
That's my bet.

Actually, given the dire state of the travel industry in general, rather than whinging and complaining about changes to conditions people should be happy to have a job, and keep it through the immediate aftermath. Joining the real world, or waking up and smelling the coffee might be better than firing off tirades at management.
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:24
  #243 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
That's my bet.

Actually, given the dire state of the travel industry in general, rather than whinging and complaining about changes to conditions people should be happy to have a job, and keep it through the immediate aftermath. Joining the real world, or waking up and smelling the coffee might be better than firing off tirades at management.
Have you actually met BA management?
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:36
  #244 (permalink)  
 
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Don't get me wrong, I have huge sympathy for anyone involved in this industry just now. It's a horrible set of circumstances that could not be envisaged, and for which there is no rule book, but.....let me ask this question.

In the current climate, if an airline management team didn't take every action possible to preserve the business (and the jobs it provides) upon whom would the blame rest for the failure of that business?
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:40
  #245 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Have you actually met BA management?
No, but I'm sure they're incompetent, as are most managements in the view of their employees!

One thing is however for certain, as part of a large publicly quoted organisation that will be suffering severe cash flow issues, and a responsibility to their shareholders to maximise profits, or in the current situation, minimise losses they'll be forced to make some very unpalatable decisions to preserve their business in the medium term, to ensure that there will be a business and employment for people in the longer term.

I feel for anyone working in any part of the travel and tourism industry at present, but looking at the situation you've got to say that some job, on a lower salary with possibly worse conditions is, to a point, better than no job at all.
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:40
  #246 (permalink)  
 
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The management who made BA the most profitable part of the IAG group.

I wonder whether the Edinburgh financial institutions, who were presumably the major users of the LCY services, have told BA that have discovered that online meetings worked perfectly well, saved a lot of money, and allowed their staff to work reasonable hours.
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:45
  #247 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by inOban View Post
The management who made BA the most profitable part of the IAG group.

I wonder whether the Edinburgh financial institutions, who were presumably the major users of the LCY services, have told BA that have discovered that online meetings worked perfectly well, saved a lot of money, and allowed their staff to work reasonable hours.
That is going to be one of the biggest challenges for airlines, and hotels that rely upon business customers with big budgets to travel to meetings and to overnight. It is probably a given that on the other side of the Covid-19 crisis there will be fewer face to face business meetings, probably fewer conferences that require overnight stays and cities like London could especially hard hit, as will the airlines, like BA Cityflyer.

For many of the legacy carriers, front end business passengers are crucial to their business model, again especially Cityflyer, who's customers must be predominantly from that sector.
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:47
  #248 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
No, but I'm sure they're incompetent, as are most managements in the view of their employees!

One thing is however for certain, as part of a large publicly quoted organisation that will be suffering severe cash flow issues, and a responsibility to their shareholders to maximise profits, or in the current situation, minimise losses they'll be forced to make some very unpalatable decisions to preserve their business in the medium term, to ensure that there will be a business and employment for people in the longer term.

I feel for anyone working in any part of the travel and tourism industry at present, but looking at the situation you've got to say that some job, on a lower salary with possibly worse conditions is, to a point, better than no job at all.
I am a long standing BA employee

So to dismiss 42 , 0000 staff , make redundant 12 , 000 staff and re employ 30 ,000 on the worst terms and conditions possible ( makes Mike Ashley look like a reasonable employer) is better than no job ?
BA are using this situation to their advantage to completely re structure the airline and its subsidiaries to an all time low

There won’t be a BA that you know or recognize I am afraid with most staff on zero hours and just above the minium wage

Last edited by MARKEYD; 15th May 2020 at 11:32.
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:55
  #249 (permalink)  
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there will be fewer face to face business meetings, probably fewer conferences that require overnight stays and cities like London could especially hard hit, as will the airlines, like BA Cityflyer.
Not disputing the points raised ATNotts but I recall similar comments being made post 9/11 and post 2008 financial crash. Whilst there will be a realignment for a period I do believe Humans insatiable appetite for success will demand that normality return at some point, and that will include the ubiquitous night-stops and expense account trips. Whether the current incumbent airlines exist to service that need is another question.
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Old 19th May 2020, 20:09
  #250 (permalink)  
 
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BA has dramatically gone down hill since Willie Walsh got his hands on it, it's really sad to see where it is going knowing it used to be up with the other great airlines. Qantas, Singapore, Emirates, the business model has dramatically changed, it's now basically another Ryanair with a fancy uniform and prestige heritage. Whilst the government is never going to allow the UK flag carrier to go bust, it will always be around in some form. As someone who used to work for flying, I can spot the tale tale signs of a dying airline having seen them first hand, British Airways is going down that route.
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Old 19th May 2020, 21:33
  #251 (permalink)  
 
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There have been people lamenting BA's decline for decades.... bring back Lord King from the dead... etc...
The competitive environment has changed and BA has had to change as well. Until the virus, BA seemed to be making a healthy profit which says it can't be doing that badly
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Old 19th May 2020, 21:50
  #252 (permalink)  
 
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The Cityflyer thread also is a strange place to have a pop at BA’s ‘decline’, as it’s the one bit of the airline short-haul with an excellent product even in economy. No BOB, 2-2 seating
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Old 19th May 2020, 22:40
  #253 (permalink)  
 
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There's always someone that will complain
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Old 19th May 2020, 23:03
  #254 (permalink)  
 
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Making a profit and being a good airline are two very different things, i.e Ryanair. Apologies who don't like what I put, unfortunately, I like to just be blunt with the truth, and it irritates me when people think having a profit means it's a good airline, profits will only get you so far if your staff don't have faith in the management.
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Old 19th May 2020, 23:03
  #255 (permalink)  
 
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That 'someone' being a person who has several years experience within the industry
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Old 20th May 2020, 06:43
  #256 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
I like to just be blunt with the truth
Capitalism means people entrusting their money to a company with the hope that the value of their investment will grow.




When it comes to airlines, this is the most important truth.

No profits ultimately lead to no flights and no jobs. All the enthusiasm and esprit de corps in the world will not save a company which is badly run over an extended period. BA has faced a great many challenges in its history and has gone through good and bad patches. The competitive environment over the last forty years has changed and the airline market is scarcely recognisable from that of the 1980s and yet BA remain and (present circumstances aside) is thriving. I am not a BA cheerleader but this is not a company in decline, this is a company evolving to fit the demands of a competitive environment which means it will probably be here in one form or another in forty years from now.
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Old 20th May 2020, 08:39
  #257 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
Making a profit and being a good airline are two very different things, i.e Ryanair.
It depends on your definition of good. As has been demonstrated, an investor will interpret this word very differently to a customer. The job of the management team of a publicly listed company is first and foremost to answer to shareholders. That's not to say that you shouldn't focus on your customers, but it cannot come at the expense of running a profitable business, something I would argue that Virgin Atlantic are now trying to work through.

On a personal level, Ryanair have never ceased to get me where I needed to go at a price I was very happy to pay. Would I prefer to travel British Airways if I had a choice? Sure I would, as the overall experience is more polished, but would I pay significantly more and travel halfway across the country to LHR to do so? No I wouldn't, but I'd still rather they be a strong competitor on the global scene and being profitable enables that.

In the end, both Ryanair and BA get their customers from A to B and they do so profitably. They are both 'good' at what they do. I guess it then becomes a personal choice as to which one you give your custom.
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Old 20th May 2020, 10:58
  #258 (permalink)  
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A CFE EMB170 has just taken off from EDI, flown a tight circuit and landed again. Just keeping the machinery oiled.
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Old 21st May 2020, 15:38
  #259 (permalink)  
 
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Start of the flying programme has been delayed from 1st June back to 21st June.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 07:47
  #260 (permalink)  
 
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According to Jethros three E170’s have moved from Norwich to Warsaw for EOL checks.

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