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Flybe-9

Old 5th Sep 2018, 16:56
  #441 (permalink)  
 
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Oh I think you do know, Chesty, it's amazing how you manipulate your words for the furtherance of making yourself look like a messiah. I think most people on here know how you like to load the gun and wind people up, it's you who's been doing that for years and then accuse people of being passive aggressive when they respond to your diatribe, which, in the grand scheme of things has a slightly sinister nature wrapped around it.
whilst we're on the subject, let's look at it in more detail

Originally Posted by airsouthwest
At least we can be guaranteed of a few things:
1) The new livery will be hailed as a new era for Flybe
Fact or opinion?

Originally Posted by airsouthwest
2) Promises of return to profit
Fact or opinion?

Originally Posted by airsouthwest
3) Loses will continue
Fact or opinion?

Originally Posted by airsouthwest
4)Blame the government for not enough support, and claims train operators get a better deal.
Fact or opinion?

Originally Posted by airsouthwest
5) More claims to solve the problems, and more staff coming and goings.
Fact or opinion?

Originally Posted by airsouthwest
This new livery is an aim to cover the cracks of a failing airline, and a failing CEO.
Fact or opinion?

Originally Posted by airsouthwest
Christine has also failed to explain who will cover the cost of Blue Islands repainting its fleet since all 5 ATR's have only just received the all over purple livery
Fact or opinion?

​​​​​​​So whilst there maybe a tiny but of fact in the above, what percentage is actually fact and what percentage is opinion?
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 17:14
  #442 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Deano777 View Post
Oh I think you do know, Chesty, it's amazing how you manipulate your words for the furtherance of making yourself look like a messiah. I think most people on here know how you like to load the gun and wind people up, it's you who's been doing that for years and then accuse people of being passive aggressive when they respond to your diatribe, which, in the grand scheme of things has a slightly sinister nature wrapped around it.
whilst we're on the subject, let's look at it in more detail
You think Iím amazing and have messianic status?! And what is it that you think I do know?

Why are you asking me if Airsouthwest is stating facts or opinion?!

Although if I may offer an opinion everything youíve quoted by Airsouthwest has historically accuracy where Flybe are concerned. As a percentage heís on about 100.
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 17:37
  #443 (permalink)  
 
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Think people are reading more into the repaint than is really there: The company may be spinning it as a rebrand for whatever incidental publicity may be available (very sensible), but I suspect the reason behind it is more practical and mundane. The new livery is simpler, easier, and therefore presumably cheaper to apply, and it was noted during the recent very hot weather that the cabin temperature on the ground of the purple aircraft was higher than that of the others (dark things absorb more heat than light things), so painting the cabin area a light colour is probably a sensible move.
As PDXCWL45 says this appears to be a in-house job with no fanfare about external brand consultants or the like, and the work will probably be done as the aircraft cycle through regular maintenance anyway.
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 17:44
  #444 (permalink)  
 
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It's not a great deal simpler than the previous livery, just one colour less but with more complicated application; the purple livery had the advantage that all the masking lines were at the same angle and all quite short. The new one has a couple of angles on the tail and also a long concave curve to the lilac.

I can believe the cabin temperature issue, though somehow Southwest manages to operate blue aeroplanes in Texas and Arizona.
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 18:57
  #445 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Deano777 View Post
Ohhhhh airsouthwest you really need to let go of your little airline that went to the wall nearly 10 years ago. Being so bitter will only cause you health problems later in life.

The E175s due for delivery next year will be painted in the new colours, the rest of the fleet will be done at a rate of about 10 per year based on their need for a repaint.

I've told you before Deano777 my username has nothing to do with Air Southwest the airline! I'm an aircraft engineer who lives in the South West end of! To be honest your just a child. I've previously worked for Flybe and needless to say since Christine took over everything went to pot, Personally the treatment I received by them during a time a close relative of mine was dying of a terminal illness actually caused me to walk away from them for good, so if it comes across that I'm bitter to Flybe that's why.

Personally I don't see any reason why they needed a new livery when 2/3 of your fleet are already in one that has a good 6 years left before needing repainting.
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 19:59
  #446 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
You think I’m amazing and have messianic status?! And what is it that you think I do know?

Why are you asking me if Airsouthwest is stating facts or opinion?!

Although if I may offer an opinion everything you’ve quoted by Airsouthwest has historically accuracy where Flybe are concerned. As a percentage he’s on about 100.
Hmm your powers of observation clearly needs alot of work. No I didn't say you're amazing or have a messianic status.
Now either you're completely ignorant or you're doing exactly what I stated up there, manipulation of words, you're an expert at it. Firstly you state I never state facts, so whilst you love facts (on a rumour site) I thought I would ask you what part of what airsouthwest said is fact? Well as you manipulated what was written by saying historically he's 100% right he/she is actually talking about what IS going to happen. Incase that's difficult for you to comprehend I'll help you, future means "a period of time following the moment of speaking or writing; time regarded as still to come". Historical means "of or concerning historical or past events" so he's not on about 100 because the events haven't taken place yet, now unless you're some kind of palm reader or Nostradamus I'd say nobody can actually state what he wrote is true until the event has taken place and in which case if it does indeed turn out to be true then that's called a hunch, or a calculated guess.

Originally Posted by airsouthwest
I've told you before Deano777 my username has nothing to do with Air Southwest the airline! I'm an aircraft engineer who lives in the South West end of! To be honest your just a child. I've previously worked for Flybe and needless to say since Christine took over everything went to pot, Personally the treatment I received by them during a time a close relative of mine was dying of a terminal illness actually caused me to walk away from them for good, so if it comes across that I'm bitter to Flybe that's why.

Personally I don't see any reason why they needed a new livery when 2/3 of your fleet are already in one that has a good 6 years left before needing repainting.
Gone to pot since she took over or gone to pot before and then inherited?
I'm sorry for your loss, I really am, I've suffered the same in the last couple of years but my experience was the opposite of yours, one particular manager couldn't do enough so if that's not the case with you then yes, I can understand your bitterness.

Well I most certainly agree with your bottom statement, however, needed or not I do like the new livery.
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 20:07
  #447 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Deano777 View Post
Hmm your powers of observation clearly needs alot of work. No I didn't say you're amazing or have a messianic status.
Now either you're completely ignorant or you're doing exactly what I stated up there, manipulation of words, you're an expert at it. Firstly you state I never state facts, so whilst you love facts (on a rumour site) I thought I would ask you what part of what airsouthwest said is fact? Well as you manipulated what was written by saying historically he's 100% right he/she is actually talking about what IS going to happen. Incase that's difficult for you to comprehend I'll help you, future means "a period of time following the moment of speaking or writing; time regarded as still to come". Historical means "of or concerning historical or past events" so he's not on about 100 because the events haven't taken place yet, now unless you're some kind of palm reader or Nostradamus I'd say nobody can actually state what he wrote is true until the event has taken place and in which case if it does indeed turn out to be true then that's called a hunch, or a calculated guess.
Exactly right my snippy little friend. Wonder why you had to ask whether they were facts or opinion then.

Notwithtanding what you think might hapoen Flybe still has, as a matter of record, hailed a new paint job as a new era, promised a return to profit and on and on and on buzz word buzz word management speak etc blah.

Thereís no particular reason to think anything else will occur. You know - leopards and spots...a well calculated guess.

Whatís the profit been like for the last few years out of interest?
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 20:26
  #448 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Deano777 View Post
Hmm your powers of observation clearly needs alot of work. No I didn't say you're amazing or have a messianic status.
Now either you're completely ignorant or you're doing exactly what I stated up there, manipulation of words, you're an expert at it. Firstly you state I never state facts, so whilst you love facts (on a rumour site) I thought I would ask you what part of what airsouthwest said is fact? Well as you manipulated what was written by saying historically he's 100% right he/she is actually talking about what IS going to happen. Incase that's difficult for you to comprehend I'll help you, future means "a period of time following the moment of speaking or writing; time regarded as still to come". Historical means "of or concerning historical or past events" so he's not on about 100 because the events haven't taken place yet, now unless you're some kind of palm reader or Nostradamus I'd say nobody can actually state what he wrote is true until the event has taken place and in which case if it does indeed turn out to be true then that's called a hunch, or a calculated guess.



Gone to pot since she took over or gone to pot before and then inherited?
I'm sorry for your loss, I really am, I've suffered the same in the last couple of years but my experience was the opposite of yours, one particular manager couldn't do enough so if that's not the case with you then yes, I can understand your bitterness.

Well I most certainly agree with your bottom statement, however, needed or not I do like the new livery.
Thank you Deano, it's appreciated, sadly these day's many people don't even bother or have the heart to say it.

From my own experience it was a particular manager, who is well known as B*tch by a lot of the engineering staff at HQ. I don't want to say much more than that encase anyone knows who i'm talking about.

I generally feel sorry for a lot of Flybe staff, apart from a few odd ones, most of them are good people who quite frankly I feel deserve better. My problem with Flybe isn't the airline as in pilots, cabin crew, check-in, ground staff. But those in the offices and higher up who generally seem to think they are better than anyone else and can treat those staff like a piece of dog muck. Whilst Flybe have made small profits in the last years it is only a profit for that specific tax year, in general Flybe still has about £90 Million worth of debt to clear before actually being a profitable airline again, hence why I say, is a brand refresh of a brand which was so heavily pushed by the previous CEO and has become so well known really necessary?

If I was running the airline myself, my main priority would be getting by day to day to a profit, sorting out legacy issues, and clearing all debts before doing any kind of rebrand. Issues like the releasing of some Q400s would have probably happened if Saad had stayed on, and I do know he was very determined to remove the E195s, if it wasn't for him there wouldn't be a Flybe anyway, there was only 3 days worth of cash flow when he took charge before they declared bankruptcy, Beside's this its actually been the Aviation Services side that has propped up the entire business for the last 2 years. I do know that Christine very much dislikes the Q400 and wanted to replace them with ATR 72's, but releasing older aircraft was chosen instead, im not sure as to why, Maybe because the stakeholders refused to give her the money to purchase or sign up to a new large leasing agreement for them? You would also have to consider the cost of retraining all your pilots, cabin crew, engineers and other ground staff. As well as buying an ATR 72 simulator for the training academy.

Another thing to clear up, In a previous comment I put that Flybe claimed to get an unfair deal compared to train companies, please see: http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articl...y-compensation
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 21:16
  #449 (permalink)  
 
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I did see a social media post the other week of the CEO at ATR HQ in Toulouse.
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 22:57
  #450 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gkmeech View Post


what do you suggest, a dash 8? Same number of seats. What point are you trying to make?
Well I stand to be corrected, but on paper at least, this is a truly ridiculous route. If there is genuinely money to be made on an absurd route like this, they might as well dust of concord and bring back the crystal and stainless steel cutlery on each flight.
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 23:12
  #451 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun View Post
Sorry, but is this not a bit contradictory? The full purple livery saw the slogan 'Faster than Road or Rail' plastered on the side of the engine nacelles which you agree is a nonsense, but you state that Flybe does not need a rebrand?

The newly painted aircraft (G-JECP) clearly needed a new coat following repairs carried out recently. Flybe will probably have needed to confirm what livery was to be applied to the new E175's coming from Embraer next year too - should they paint them full purple or not?

Personally, I think this a far crisper, cleaner and professional design. it looks business like and is all about helping to define the brand. I guess that with a large number of the fleet coming towards the end of their lease and potentially reaching the point where a new lick of paint is required (new livery or not) now seems like a sensible time to decide to make a change.
jobsagoodun,
You believe that this struggling airline will increase its revenue as a consequence of a revbrand to a new crisper image, I agree it is nicer. But I don't see it adding value at this juncture. I dont think my commentary is contradictory, but understand your point. The faster than road and rail is just pained on the engine from memory. Hardly warrants a full fleet rebrand. How much well this cost both in design, paintshop and down time?? And a few new 175s hardly warrants a full rebrand???

Did a single 175 get the existing purple scheme??
EI-BUD
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 23:34
  #452 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RVF750 View Post
I quite like it.
You have got to be joking?

This is akin to your wife putting new curtains up, no one notices and it makes sod all difference. What kind of monumental moron thinks your average passenger even notices what colour the metal tube is that takes them from A to B? If they want a rebrand then its the flybe part that needs replacing, not a new colour palette. For me, the largely purple scheme was a masterstroke, eazy own orange, flybe could build a brand around purple. This new scheme looks like a tampon. Just a coincidence I suppose.........

Replacing the Q400 with ATR's? As the new CEO, I have done a thorough review of the company, and I have decided that replacing the company's most important USP with something distinctly average and at great expense is the way forward. Sure, we are struggling to even afford to take delivery of 4 175s, but the ATR with its slower speed, more intrusive engines and less range are worth every penny.

N.B I do not hate flybe, I hate what they have become.
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Old 5th Sep 2018, 23:57
  #453 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint View Post
You have got to be joking?

This is akin to your wife putting new curtains up, no one notices and it makes sod all difference. What kind of monumental moron thinks your average passenger even notices what colour the metal tube is that takes them from A to B? If they want a rebrand then its the flybe part that needs replacing, not a new colour palette. For me, the largely purple scheme was a masterstroke, eazy own orange, flybe could build a brand around purple. This new scheme looks like a tampon. Just a coincidence I suppose.........

Replacing the Q400 with ATR's? As the new CEO, I have done a thorough review of the company, and I have decided that replacing the company's most important USP with something distinctly average and at great expense is the way forward. Sure, we are struggling to even afford to take delivery of 4 175s, but the ATR with its slower speed, more intrusive engines and less range are worth every penny.

N.B I do not hate flybe, I hate what they have become.
Actually the ATR72 only flies a few knotts slow than a Q400, as Flybe has never flown them at top speed anyway it uses too much fuel. in reality it would only add 5 - 10 minutes to flight times. The lease on a ATR as well as its maintenance cost are also considerably cheaper in comparison to a Q400 which is very maintenance heavy. But since the option to take up extended Q400 leases has been done, it would appear the ATR idea is out of the picture for at least a few years. I too hate this new livery its dull, when you already have 30 out of 54 Q400s already in the Purple livery it does seem pretty stupid. Add in the remaining 11 E175's they where halfway though (35 remaining) the repainting now they have 1 down and 64 aircraft to go. That just their fleet, there is also the matter of Blue Islands, Stobart and Eastern who have aircraft in the all over Purple livery, nothing has been said as to whether Flybe will cover the cost of repainting their fleet, or if it will have to come out of the operators pocket themselves!


In answer to someone else question, No E175s have been repainted but two E195s have been repainted, Im not sure if they are going to Stobart, but I don't believe so.
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Old 6th Sep 2018, 00:00
  #454 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
Thank you Deano, it's appreciated, sadly these day's many people don't even bother or have the heart to say it.

From my own experience it was a particular manager, who is well known as B*tch by a lot of the engineering staff at HQ. I don't want to say much more than that encase anyone knows who i'm talking about.

I generally feel sorry for a lot of Flybe staff, apart from a few odd ones, most of them are good people who quite frankly I feel deserve better. My problem with Flybe isn't the airline as in pilots, cabin crew, check-in, ground staff. But those in the offices and higher up who generally seem to think they are better than anyone else and can treat those staff like a piece of dog muck. Whilst Flybe have made small profits in the last years it is only a profit for that specific tax year, in general Flybe still has about £90 Million worth of debt to clear before actually being a profitable airline again, hence why I say, is a brand refresh of a brand which was so heavily pushed by the previous CEO and has become so well known really necessary?

If I was running the airline myself, my main priority would be getting by day to day to a profit, sorting out legacy issues, and clearing all debts before doing any kind of rebrand. Issues like the releasing of some Q400s would have probably happened if Saad had stayed on, and I do know he was very determined to remove the E195s, if it wasn't for him there wouldn't be a Flybe anyway, there was only 3 days worth of cash flow when he took charge before they declared bankruptcy, Beside's this its actually been the Aviation Services side that has propped up the entire business for the last 2 years. I do know that Christine very much dislikes the Q400 and wanted to replace them with ATR 72's, but releasing older aircraft was chosen instead, im not sure as to why, Maybe because the stakeholders refused to give her the money to purchase or sign up to a new large leasing agreement for them? You would also have to consider the cost of retraining all your pilots, cabin crew, engineers and other ground staff. As well as buying an ATR 72 simulator for the training academy.

Another thing to clear up, In a previous comment I put that Flybe claimed to get an unfair deal compared to train companies, please see: http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articl...y-compensation
You talk way too much sense to ever be considered for a senior position. The Q400s are what gave Flybe a national presence, and should only be replaced by more Q400s. If they want to branch out, then the c-series would fit their traditional business plan (i.e exploiting opportunities in the regions rather than fighting a losing battle with the low cost brigade at the bigger airports). Look at Southwest or Spirit for garish paint jobs, Flybe's garish purple could have become a brand in the same vein. This wishy washy new incarnation is very much less is less.
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Old 6th Sep 2018, 00:16
  #455 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint View Post
You talk way too much sense to ever be considered for a senior position. The Q400s are what gave Flybe a national presence, and should only be replaced by more Q400s. If they want to branch out, then the c-series would fit their traditional business plan (i.e exploiting opportunities in the regions rather than fighting a losing battle with the low cost brigade at the bigger airports). Look at Southwest or Spirit for garish paint jobs, Flybe's garish purple could have become a brand in the same vein. This wishy washy new incarnation is very much less is less.

What a rude comment, I do hope you will apologise for it.
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Old 6th Sep 2018, 08:33
  #456 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
What a rude comment, I do hope you will apologise for it.
i was being sarcastic. It was actually meant as a compliment, as your post made a lot of sense. My point was that most senior positions will be filled to meet quotas going forward. Hiring the best candidate for the job seems to be an archaic principal in this brave new world.
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Old 6th Sep 2018, 09:14
  #457 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EI-BUD View Post
jobsagoodun,
You believe that this struggling airline will increase its revenue as a consequence of a revbrand to a new crisper image, I agree it is nicer. But I don't see it adding value at this juncture. I dont think my commentary is contradictory, but understand your point. The faster than road and rail is just pained on the engine from memory. Hardly warrants a full fleet rebrand. How much well this cost both in design, paintshop and down time?? And a few new 175s hardly warrants a full rebrand???

Did a single 175 get the existing purple scheme??
EI-BUD
Flybe grew their DH4 fleet rapidly in the period 2006-2010 following the acquisition of BA Connect in 2007. Most of these airframes have operated until this point without a change in livery or repaint and therefore most will require this very soon. I would imagine that all of these visits will have been planned long ago and budgeted for. A repaint would be be required if these aircraft go back to their lessors anyway. The design didn't cost huge bucks as I understand it was completed in-house. All Flybe seem to be doing is choosing an appropriate time in the fleet transition to alter the livery to bring it into line with the current brand, and on aircraft that will need repainting anyway and for which the costs of this work is already planned into the lifetime of the aircraft.

Last edited by JobsaGoodun; 6th Sep 2018 at 09:32. Reason: Grammar
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Old 6th Sep 2018, 11:05
  #458 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest
Thank you Deano, it's appreciated, sadly these day's many people don't even bother or have the heart to say it.

From my own experience it was a particular manager, who is well known as B*tch by a lot of the engineering staff at HQ. I don't want to say much more than that encase anyone knows who i'm talking about.

I generally feel sorry for a lot of Flybe staff, apart from a few odd ones, most of them are good people who quite frankly I feel deserve better. My problem with Flybe isn't the airline as in pilots, cabin crew, check-in, ground staff. But those in the offices and higher up who generally seem to think they are better than anyone else and can treat those staff like a piece of dog muck. Whilst Flybe have made small profits in the last years it is only a profit for that specific tax year, in general Flybe still has about £90 Million worth of debt to clear before actually being a profitable airline again, hence why I say, is a brand refresh of a brand which was so heavily pushed by the previous CEO and has become so well known really necessary?

If I was running the airline myself, my main priority would be getting by day to day to a profit, sorting out legacy issues, and clearing all debts before doing any kind of rebrand. Issues like the releasing of some Q400s would have probably happened if Saad had stayed on, and I do know he was very determined to remove the E195s, if it wasn't for him there wouldn't be a Flybe anyway, there was only 3 days worth of cash flow when he took charge before they declared bankruptcy, Beside's this its actually been the Aviation Services side that has propped up the entire business for the last 2 years. I do know that Christine very much dislikes the Q400 and wanted to replace them with ATR 72's, but releasing older aircraft was chosen instead, im not sure as to why, Maybe because the stakeholders refused to give her the money to purchase or sign up to a new large leasing agreement for them? You would also have to consider the cost of retraining all your pilots, cabin crew, engineers and other ground staff. As well as buying an ATR 72 simulator for the training academy.

Another thing to clear up, In a previous comment I put that Flybe claimed to get an unfair deal compared to train companies, please see: http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articl...y-compensation
No worries, airsouthwest, any time. I know what you mean but for most people I'd imagine it's that awkward "I really don't know what to say to make things better" so alot of people just stay quiet but one thing that shocked me when I was attending chemo with my relative was the true extent of the problem and how rife it is, it was a true eye opener and mind blowing.

​​​​​​It's a shame that manager was like that, I did experience some really cold dealings with 1 manager giving me the company line etc but I then swapped to another one and it was like chalk and cheese. In your darkest hour of need all you want is support, I was even threatened with disciplinary procedures.

I agree, Flybe should really start making money first then once that happens they should put the CAPEX to one side to get all the aircraft repainted within a year or something, now there's going to be 4 liveries flying around for years, the old one, the purple, the new one and the white.

I think you're right, buying the ATR or even a regional jet would incur serious expense, expense Flybe simply don't have. New aircraft, even leasing them doesn't come cheep, the disappointing thing is they are throwing more money at the Q400 to improve reliability, do you know how many years I've heard that? Yet here it is, still suffering from tech problems and the fleet isn't getting any younger. When it works it works very, very well but when it doesn't then it's a rocky road towards EU261.

Thanks for the link, I read that on LinkedIn yesterday morning.
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Old 6th Sep 2018, 11:05
  #459 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun View Post
Flybe grew their DH4 fleet rapidly in the period 2006-2010 following the acquisition of BA Connect in 2007. Most of these airframes have operated until this point without a change in livery or repaint and therefore most will require this very soon. I would imagine that all of these visits will have been planned long ago and budgeted for. A repaint would be be required if these aircraft go back to their lessors anyway. The design didn't cost huge bucks as I understand it was completed in-house. All Flybe seem to be doing is choosing an appropriate time in the fleet transition to alter the livery to bring it into line with the current brand, and on aircraft that will need repainting anyway and for which the costs of this work is already planned into the lifetime of the aircraft.
if what you say is correct than perhaps the rebranding is more to do with reducing repainting costs? I can imagine that the 2-colour new livery is cheaper and quicker to apply than the previous incarnation.
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Old 6th Sep 2018, 12:14
  #460 (permalink)  
 
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I think most people would prefer a better OTP & an APP that works rather than another paint job.
Are they still keeping the Thunderbirds cabin crew uniforms?
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