Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Monarch 4

Old 2nd Oct 2017, 07:55
  #621 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 72
Posts: 670
Nemrytter: Wrong! There are not tens of thousands of passengers left in the lurch. The CAA is ensuring they all come home and the bloody BBC is getting annoying with Justin Webb's inept reporting/analysing. All those who have already travelled outbound with Monarch will be returned at no cost and little inconvenience. Or has the CAA chartered a flock of Qatar planes, along with various others just to decorate the sky?
I do wonder though why the CAA can't stop Monarch from selling more tickets but keep flying until all their customers have been repatriated? Protecting the banks, perhaps?
There was a report on the radio to the effect the CAA announcement was timed for when all Monarch's aircraft were back on the ground in the UK so the banks could seize them. And that's another of my pet gripes; property before people!
KelvinD is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:00
  #622 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: .
Posts: 306
And the BBC is doing an excellent job of informing passengers of their rights and what is likely to happen. Personally, I think that's quite a useful and important thing to do. Seems I'm in the minority there.
Nemrytter is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:01
  #623 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Faro
Posts: 8
from FAO to England today

G-POWH 757 Titan ( ZB 053 )
A7-LAF A320 Qatar ( ZB 403 )
EC-MRM 744 Wamos ( ZB 215 )
Faolpfr is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:04
  #624 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 188
WHY did Monarch fail?

Did Monarch fail because it's cost base was too high?
Tough on it's employees but for any airline that has a cost base that is too high it's inevitable it will fail eventually.
Or was there another reason?
I recall a number of years ago Aer Lingus was in the same position until Willie Walsh took over and save it from extinction with a series of cost cuts the Unions opposed but had to give in to if the airline was to survive.
My remarks above also apply to Air Berlin and Alitalia.
heidelberg is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:09
  #625 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 1,304
Yes ATNotts...your last paragraph is correct as stated before...but you still don`t quite get the scale of it...
Even allowing for hyperbole it is the largest UK airline collapse in UK history...it is the largest peacetime British repatriation ever & the CAA have assembled & in relatively short time one of the largest UK airlines = "Air CAA"....Would you care to be stranded overseas by an American private equity company?..
Pax too have a life you know...& in these numbers as stated before the UK Government really really do have a duty of care...Well done the CAA..
southside bobby is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:14
  #626 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Benfleet, Essex
Age: 68
Posts: 13
As said by others, the most important issue is the lost jobs, although the
engineering side should be unaffected...It will be an inconvenience for holiday
makers abroad if they have to return to a different airport, but that's all.

This has been on the cards for some time, and comes as no real surprise to those
in the industry.
-Alan- is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:19
  #627 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Faro
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by Faolpfr View Post
from FAO to England today

G-POWH 757 Titan ( ZB 053 )
A7-LAF A320 Qatar ( ZB 403 )
EC-MRM 744 Wamos ( ZB 215 )

C-FDAT A313 Air Transat ( ZB 581 )
A7-LAH A320 Qatar ( ZB 213 )

Last edited by Faolpfr; 2nd Oct 2017 at 08:42.
Faolpfr is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:25
  #628 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,623
Originally Posted by southside bobby View Post
Yes ATNotts...your last paragraph is correct as stated before...but you still don`t quite get the scale of it...
Even allowing for hyperbole it is the largest UK airline collapse in UK history...it is the largest peacetime British repatriation ever & the CAA have assembled & in relatively short time one of the largest UK airlines = "Air CAA"....Would you care to be stranded overseas by an American private equity company?..
Pax too have a life you know...& in these numbers as stated before the UK Government really really do have a duty of care...Well done the CAA..
Can't disagree, but this is an insolvency - they happen, in all sectors. If a large electrical retailer had gone bust, just for example, and I had paid 2,000 for a 4K wide screen TV and as a result of the insolvency I wouldn't (immediately) get my money back, would HMG have ensured that I'd get what I ordered with a few hours of when I expected it, even if I didn't have insurance cover (which is what the ATOL essentially is)? I'd be out of pocket, and expected to sort it out myself.

I know that being out of the country is different, but people are implored to take out travel insurance when travelling, and perhaps those who don't should be responsible for their (in)actions. Sure the CAA should be stepping in; that is what ATOL is for, but equally perhaps they ought to be charging the passengers not covered by ATOL for the cost of their seat. The CAA / HM Government are not a charity.
ATNotts is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:33
  #629 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post

Compare and contrast with the orderly close down of Air Berlin, where the rules are clearly very different.
Illegal, basically. Various local state governments and national government carving something up with Lufthansa.

EU at it’s worst. Brits tends to do it by the book - some other EU countries use the book when it suits them.

CAA have done exactly what they are paid to do.

Fault is with the incompetent management at Monarch, Greybull and the Mantegazza family.

Superb staff - let down badly by the former and current owners.
Cuillin Hills is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:34
  #630 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 509
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Can't disagree, but this is an insolvency - they happen, in all sectors. If a large electrical retailer had gone bust, just for example, and I had paid 2,000 for a 4K wide screen TV and as a result of the insolvency I wouldn't (immediately) get my money back, would HMG have ensured that I'd get what I ordered with a few hours of when I expected it, even if I didn't have insurance cover (which is what the ATOL essentially is)? I'd be out of pocket, and expected to sort it out myself.

I know that being out of the country is different, but people are implored to take out travel insurance when travelling, and perhaps those who don't should be responsible for their (in)actions. Sure the CAA should be stepping in; that is what ATOL is for, but equally perhaps they ought to be charging the passengers not covered by ATOL for the cost of their seat. The CAA / HM Government are not a charity.
They are not acting as a charity, they will be making a claim against credit/debit card issuers.
runway30 is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:40
  #631 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 631
The CAA are in a better position to deal with something of this scale than travel insurance companies!
01475 is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:43
  #632 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 72
Posts: 670
Nemrytter: I agree with what you say re informing passengers etc but I had 2 gripes. The first being your Daily Mail type comment re thousands of passengers being stranded abroad. Totally untrue. The other was with Justin Webb on the Today programme employing the John Humphries school of annoying interviewing. While talking to the chair of the CAA, Dame Deidre Hutton, this morning, he asked about people being stranded here, there and everywhere within milliseconds of her explaining how nobody would be stranded and what efforts were being made to ensure a smooth return of all affected holiday makers. Obviously, he was not listening to her as she spoke and blundered on with potentially inflammatory "non news". (Hence my reference to the annoying Humphries).
I had to smile when they interviewed a woman on holiday somewhere in Northern Italy who said she had been notified she will be returning home today via British Airways. I wonder if she will or will she get a surprise at someone telling her to board a Qatar Airways flight? Their aircraft arrived in UK last night and at least some are operating with BA9**** flight numbers.
KelvinD is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:50
  #633 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: down under
Posts: 338
Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Nemrytter: Wrong! There are not tens of thousands of passengers left in the lurch. The CAA is ensuring they all come home
what about the tens of thousands of pax who have paid for Monarch tix for tomorrow? or next week? or next month? They're left in the lurch.
cooperplace is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:50
  #634 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LGW
Posts: 44
heidelberg you don't know what you are talking about.
BCAR Section L is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:53
  #635 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
No - they're reporting the facts. Are they supposed to keep quiet and let people continue to book flights with an airline who are clearly in trouble AGAIN?

lets face it airlines like BA, Easyjet and Ryanair don't lurch from crisis to crisis every 12 months.

There is clearly something horribly wrong with the business model at Monarch and their need for annual corrective action just shows how bad it must be

It's very hard on the employees but it's the owners and management who are to blame not the press
Andrew Swaffield?
PA28161 is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:53
  #636 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by EGGW View Post
Sad day for a once great company, 50 years with no hull loss. I hope the Montegazzas choke, whilst sipping their cocktails on the back of their Mega Yacht. You royally screwed so many loyal staff

Didn't they sell the company 3 years ago?
arketip is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:56
  #637 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 137
It's an inconvenience for pax. They will return to their jobs, way of life and it will be just a nine day wonder for them.

My concerns and thoughts are for the staff, pilots, cabin crew and ground crew. My son's best friend is/was a SFO. he's gutted
PA28161 is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 09:01
  #638 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dundee
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by RoyHudd View Post
The usual claptrap from BBC, Sky, ITN, et al. The issue for them is NOT lost jobs, perhaps 2100 directly, plus many in former suppliers of Monarch.

No, for the media, especially the taxpayer-funded Beeb, the issue is inconvenienced pax and lost holidays. Those are not tragedies, lost jobs are.
To be fair, when I listened to R5 Live at 5.30 this morning, Simon Calder provided an alternative perspective. He thought the people who are currently overseas will not be greatly inconvenienced as alternative flights home are being arranged and the real 'inconvenience' is the situation the Monarch employees now find themselves in.
Speedywheels is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 09:06
  #639 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Today

Originally Posted by Speedywheels View Post
To be fair, when I listened to R5 Live at 5.30 this morning, Simon Calder provided an alternative perspective.
It is mostly the "let's find the crisis of the day today programme" If it's not on purpose then it's incredibly bad research and presenting on aviation and other important areas
Jetstream67 is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 09:14
  #640 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: The North
Posts: 1
Who benefits from the collapse

How about running the companies in Administration until the following is sorted:
Ensure no money is filtered out of any of the companies bank accounts.
Flying all passengers back within the short-term at Monarchs expense.
Refund all those eligible at Monarchs expense
Ensure ALL employees get paid, including notice period.
Protect employees Pension rights.


The total bill is picked up by the so-called turn-around specialist running the show and backed by their CAA / ATOL protection.
AvTechie is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.