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Monarch 4

Old 2nd Oct 2017, 07:47
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There are so many potential factors such as:-

The geopolitical situation in the Middle East, the fall in the value of sterling principally precipitated by the Brexit vote, and too many seats seeking too few passengers - probably also because there is a finite amount of accommodation in the Med. resorts, that means that there is an imbalance between seats available and beds.

Aside of that there always the potential for allegations of poor management, and there will undoubtedly be severe criticism of Greybull Capital who will again not come out of this smelling of roses - they do have previous in other sectors.

How much of the slack (if slack there is) will be taken up is questionable. The industry might be better restricting capacity and raising yields, but there's always one that will break (unofficial) ranks and I suspect one or the other company will use Monarch's demise as an opportunity to buy market share.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 07:50
  #622 (permalink)  
 
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That's because your nothing to do with the ATOL scheme.

If you didn't take out travel insurance its your own problem.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 07:50
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Originally Posted by IB4138
Great if you live in the UK and are abroad at the moment, for the CAA to be getting you home at no cost. However, if you are a UK ex-pat presently in the UK with a flight back to your home EU country this/next week, they have done nothing to assist, even though they will have aircraft operating outbound legs from the UK empty for repatriation flights. They have no advice to give, if you ring them. Basically if you are an expat British citizen trying to get home, you are on your own. Double standards.
If you book an air ticket, outside of a package then that is always going to be the situation. What I don't readily understand is why the CAA is apparently repatriating Brits. whether or not they are covered by an ATOL booking, and as you say, if they are doing that, why the shadow airline can't sell vacant seat to these expats wanting to return.

I guess the reason for looking after all Brits coming home is political; especially as the collapse has happened coincidentally with the governing party's annual conference.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 07:51
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Planning for these rescue flights began on Thursday and Friday with the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle for repatriating everyone being placed over the last few days and will continue to do so in the coming days for flights over the next two weeks. It’s no coincidence that the very informative monarch.caa.co.uk website has taken sometime to be put together and is not just a last minute statement on a web page. It, like the airlift has been built up over the last few days. Only after 21:00 last night were plans allowed to be broadcast to wider airline staff involved in these as CAA has confidentiality clauses in place in case things could be salvaged at the last minute like this time last year. Sadly there was no last minute rescue and here we are today hoping that staff find new jobs quickly and as many customers are able to salvage their holidays as possible.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 07:55
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Nemrytter: Wrong! There are not tens of thousands of passengers left in the lurch. The CAA is ensuring they all come home and the bloody BBC is getting annoying with Justin Webb's inept reporting/analysing. All those who have already travelled outbound with Monarch will be returned at no cost and little inconvenience. Or has the CAA chartered a flock of Qatar planes, along with various others just to decorate the sky?
I do wonder though why the CAA can't stop Monarch from selling more tickets but keep flying until all their customers have been repatriated? Protecting the banks, perhaps?
There was a report on the radio to the effect the CAA announcement was timed for when all Monarch's aircraft were back on the ground in the UK so the banks could seize them. And that's another of my pet gripes; property before people!
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:00
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And the BBC is doing an excellent job of informing passengers of their rights and what is likely to happen. Personally, I think that's quite a useful and important thing to do. Seems I'm in the minority there.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:01
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from FAO to England today

G-POWH 757 Titan ( ZB 053 )
A7-LAF A320 Qatar ( ZB 403 )
EC-MRM 744 Wamos ( ZB 215 )
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:04
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WHY did Monarch fail?

Did Monarch fail because it's cost base was too high?
Tough on it's employees but for any airline that has a cost base that is too high it's inevitable it will fail eventually.
Or was there another reason?
I recall a number of years ago Aer Lingus was in the same position until Willie Walsh took over and save it from extinction with a series of cost cuts the Unions opposed but had to give in to if the airline was to survive.
My remarks above also apply to Air Berlin and Alitalia.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:09
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Yes ATNotts...your last paragraph is correct as stated before...but you still don`t quite get the scale of it...
Even allowing for hyperbole it is the largest UK airline collapse in UK history...it is the largest peacetime British repatriation ever & the CAA have assembled & in relatively short time one of the largest UK airlines = "Air CAA"....Would you care to be stranded overseas by an American private equity company?..
Pax too have a life you know...& in these numbers as stated before the UK Government really really do have a duty of care...Well done the CAA..
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:14
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As said by others, the most important issue is the lost jobs, although the
engineering side should be unaffected...It will be an inconvenience for holiday
makers abroad if they have to return to a different airport, but that's all.

This has been on the cards for some time, and comes as no real surprise to those
in the industry.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:19
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Originally Posted by Faolpfr
from FAO to England today

G-POWH 757 Titan ( ZB 053 )
A7-LAF A320 Qatar ( ZB 403 )
EC-MRM 744 Wamos ( ZB 215 )

C-FDAT A313 Air Transat ( ZB 581 )
A7-LAH A320 Qatar ( ZB 213 )

Last edited by Faolpfr; 2nd Oct 2017 at 08:42.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:25
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Originally Posted by southside bobby
Yes ATNotts...your last paragraph is correct as stated before...but you still don`t quite get the scale of it...
Even allowing for hyperbole it is the largest UK airline collapse in UK history...it is the largest peacetime British repatriation ever & the CAA have assembled & in relatively short time one of the largest UK airlines = "Air CAA"....Would you care to be stranded overseas by an American private equity company?..
Pax too have a life you know...& in these numbers as stated before the UK Government really really do have a duty of care...Well done the CAA..
Can't disagree, but this is an insolvency - they happen, in all sectors. If a large electrical retailer had gone bust, just for example, and I had paid £2,000 for a 4K wide screen TV and as a result of the insolvency I wouldn't (immediately) get my money back, would HMG have ensured that I'd get what I ordered with a few hours of when I expected it, even if I didn't have insurance cover (which is what the ATOL essentially is)? I'd be out of pocket, and expected to sort it out myself.

I know that being out of the country is different, but people are implored to take out travel insurance when travelling, and perhaps those who don't should be responsible for their (in)actions. Sure the CAA should be stepping in; that is what ATOL is for, but equally perhaps they ought to be charging the passengers not covered by ATOL for the cost of their seat. The CAA / HM Government are not a charity.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:33
  #633 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts

Compare and contrast with the orderly close down of Air Berlin, where the rules are clearly very different.
Illegal, basically. Various local state governments and national government carving something up with Lufthansa.

EU at it’s worst. Brits tends to do it by the book - some other EU countries use the book when it suits them.

CAA have done exactly what they are paid to do.

Fault is with the incompetent management at Monarch, Greybull and the Mantegazza family.

Superb staff - let down badly by the former and current owners.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:34
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
Can't disagree, but this is an insolvency - they happen, in all sectors. If a large electrical retailer had gone bust, just for example, and I had paid £2,000 for a 4K wide screen TV and as a result of the insolvency I wouldn't (immediately) get my money back, would HMG have ensured that I'd get what I ordered with a few hours of when I expected it, even if I didn't have insurance cover (which is what the ATOL essentially is)? I'd be out of pocket, and expected to sort it out myself.

I know that being out of the country is different, but people are implored to take out travel insurance when travelling, and perhaps those who don't should be responsible for their (in)actions. Sure the CAA should be stepping in; that is what ATOL is for, but equally perhaps they ought to be charging the passengers not covered by ATOL for the cost of their seat. The CAA / HM Government are not a charity.
They are not acting as a charity, they will be making a claim against credit/debit card issuers.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:40
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The CAA are in a better position to deal with something of this scale than travel insurance companies!
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:43
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Nemrytter: I agree with what you say re informing passengers etc but I had 2 gripes. The first being your Daily Mail type comment re thousands of passengers being stranded abroad. Totally untrue. The other was with Justin Webb on the Today programme employing the John Humphries school of annoying interviewing. While talking to the chair of the CAA, Dame Deidre Hutton, this morning, he asked about people being stranded here, there and everywhere within milliseconds of her explaining how nobody would be stranded and what efforts were being made to ensure a smooth return of all affected holiday makers. Obviously, he was not listening to her as she spoke and blundered on with potentially inflammatory "non news". (Hence my reference to the annoying Humphries).
I had to smile when they interviewed a woman on holiday somewhere in Northern Italy who said she had been notified she will be returning home today via British Airways. I wonder if she will or will she get a surprise at someone telling her to board a Qatar Airways flight? Their aircraft arrived in UK last night and at least some are operating with BA9**** flight numbers.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:50
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Originally Posted by KelvinD
Nemrytter: Wrong! There are not tens of thousands of passengers left in the lurch. The CAA is ensuring they all come home
what about the tens of thousands of pax who have paid for Monarch tix for tomorrow? or next week? or next month? They're left in the lurch.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:50
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heidelberg you don't know what you are talking about.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:53
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry
No - they're reporting the facts. Are they supposed to keep quiet and let people continue to book flights with an airline who are clearly in trouble AGAIN?

lets face it airlines like BA, Easyjet and Ryanair don't lurch from crisis to crisis every 12 months.

There is clearly something horribly wrong with the business model at Monarch and their need for annual corrective action just shows how bad it must be

It's very hard on the employees but it's the owners and management who are to blame not the press
Andrew Swaffield?
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 08:53
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Originally Posted by EGGW
Sad day for a once great company, 50 years with no hull loss. I hope the Montegazzas choke, whilst sipping their cocktails on the back of their Mega Yacht. You royally screwed so many loyal staff

Didn't they sell the company 3 years ago?
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