Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.


Old 23rd Apr 2015, 17:44
  #1741 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North West UK
Age: 65
Posts: 181

Another Liverpool route to be transferred over by RYR? I'm sure the passengers will relish the unpleasant T3 experience referred to above!
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Old 23rd Apr 2015, 20:20
  #1742 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,225
[quote=Mr A Tis;8953740]
Originally Posted by The96er View Post
Although not the best Terminal I admit coupled with it not being designed for the RYR loads we see today, however, it's not that bad - I've been to worse places. How long is the train journey to SOU - about 4 1/2 hrs !! - I think I'd rather put up with a little inconvenience at MAN and take the quicker plane (assuming the a/c isn't 'Tech') [/QUOTE
After you factor in awkward drop off, bag drop queue, security queue, the delays as they can't close the Dash 8 door, etc etc. journey time is pretty much the same door to door. A thoroughly unpleasant experience, you can neither get a seat or a drink. I could be sat on a train being served at my seat. No way would I fly domestic from T3 again. I left home at 0630 and got to destination at 1200. Had I used the train I could have left home at 0730 & arrived same time but without any MAN hassle whatsoever. Even standard class on a train out strips flying from T3. Time to spare? Go by air !
I pay an annual fee for a lounge pass & Manchester is the only airport in the world I have been refused access. Twice in T2 & now in T3 due to" capacity" are they really serious about business pax ? Or not ?

Last edited by Mr A Tis; 23rd Apr 2015 at 20:44.
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Old 25th Apr 2015, 13:09
  #1743 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2013
Location: manchester/berlin
Age: 58
Posts: 28
I would rather go through all that you have described than use the train. Just my opinion. I have travelled on Swiss, German, Spanish railways and all are superior to Network Rail and the various franchises.
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Old 25th Apr 2015, 14:44
  #1744 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Manchester
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There are some issues at MAN, the terminal redevelopment can't come soon enough I guess. What does grate on me however, are some of the diva-ish comments about the place.
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Old 26th Apr 2015, 16:03
  #1745 (permalink)  
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Location: manchester
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Old 26th Apr 2015, 16:16
  #1746 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LV
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Flew MAN - GLA through terminal 3 and had no problems at all, straight through helpful security and enjoyed the eateries and shops and aprin views. Been in a lot worse.
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Old 26th Apr 2015, 16:31
  #1747 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 1,578

Correct link here.

Air tax at Manchester Airport 'could force families looking for cheaper holidays to fly from Scotland' - Manchester Evening News

Hmmmm .... who are these aviation experts and where on earth have they been hiding ?

Maybe its just me but i could have sworn our Mr Manfod raised this 6 months back !!!!!!

At least with an election looming we can be reassured our Northern MPs (yes you Mr Kane) are championing the airport and defending Manchester to the hilt.

Last edited by Bagso; 26th Apr 2015 at 19:21.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 08:31
  #1748 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Pace picks up at 800m Airport City scheme - Manchester Evening News

Strong interest which is great but any deals done ?

And NOW not just 10 but up to 15 years to complete..!!!

We have been going for 2 already and it was 10 years then, is that "picking up the pace" ?

and just look at that last line, pretty damming !

If Manchester cannot be made to work there really is little chance for the rest of the UK.

This is what Governments are supposed to help fix thru diversified investment. ...don't just manage the problem!

PS a few of us were criticised for talking about supposedly peripheral issues to actual "airlines" but I have noticed not a single posting from the naysayers In over 2 weeks.

Any chance of some contributions ....?

Last edited by Bagso; 27th Apr 2015 at 08:51.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 09:20
  #1749 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cheshire
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Re Airport City:
and just look at that last line, pretty damming !
And also the previous quotes about Manchester needing a wow factor and to encourage dynamic housing. Something of a sting in the tail after a generally upbeat, but lacking specifics, message.

As to APD in Scotland, the impact on MAN and Scotland's support for Heathrow expansion, just a few observations:-

It would be interesting to know how many MAN originating pax are now travelling via DUB to the US on separate tickets rather than using MAN's own flights to the US because of the APD differential. Then there are those passengers who might now be flying LBA or LPL-DUB-USA and not using MAN at all. A trickle or more significant?

If Scotland reduce or eliminate APD and the UK government did nothing about the rates in England, I suspect it would be potential MAN business at the northern and north eastern fringes of its catchment area that might be persuaded to fly from Scotland for available long haul flights instead of MAN. I would have thought for those from its core central catchment, it might not be attractive if it meant a long drive, train journey or flybe connection to EDI or GLA to save a relatively small amount. But of course MAN needs to be drawing pax from a wide a catchment as possible to sustain and hopefully grow its long haul services, so even losing a small percentage could make an unwelcome impact.

Why Scotland (I'm not sure which airports) are supporting Heathrow expansion so enthusiastically is slightly puzzling. Even more frequencies from their main airports to LHR and perhaps new connectivity from some other smaller ones, I would have thought might hinder potential future growth of short and long haul routes from GLA and EDI, and at worst risk the loss of some of the services they already have. It strikes me as a similar concern to that of MAN in fact.

The potential gain is access to yet more flights to existing destinations from LHR and some new destinations, most of which I imagine could be reached through existing hubs used by passengers anyway.

As to Bagso's last point, there does seem to be a distinct lack of airline news just at the moment, although LAX 's comments about TK resuming 3 daily frequencies next summer was reassuring.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 09:47
  #1750 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2013
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And just to clarify Turkish has 3 daily on Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun over the winter too.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 11:30
  #1751 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 143
Regularly fly to the Far East, about twice monthly, but NEVER from MAN. Always got to AMS/CDG/FRA purely because it is significantly cheaper due to the ridiculous APD.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 11:53
  #1752 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: uk
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Interestingly thpiece on Airport City isn't currently appearing on the drop down of business news although the link still works. Just seems odd.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 13:28
  #1753 (permalink)  
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And just to clarify Turkish has 3 daily on Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun over the winter too.
Yes, thanks for clarifying. I did realise it was 18 x weekly this next winter and should have made my comment clearer.

Are there any indications yet what is happening with AA to ORD and UA to IAD next winter? I imagine both will be suspended again for a period but just wondered for how long.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 22:00
  #1754 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 371
AA and UA


Early days for next winter but our booking system shows:

AA ORD - daily 767 replaced by 757 from 01Oct, then suspended from 04 Jan

UA IAD - reduces from daily to 5 per week from 07Sep, then suspended from 04Jan.

Unable to see when either return as falls outside our system range. Plenty of time for plans to change for next next winter.

Interesting article on Flightglobal where UA are pulling 777s and 757s off the Atlantic and into their domestic network, and replacing them with 21 refurbished 767-300ERs. So perhaps a hint of changes to come for next year.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 07:38
  #1755 (permalink)  
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AA and UA

Thanks logohu. Early days as you say for next winter's final schedules, let alone next summer's.

I don't recall whether UA dropped IAD to 5 x weekly as early as 5 Sep. last year or suspended that early in January. I rather think UA was supended for only 7 weeks but could be wrong. AA was gone for some weeks longer. Have to say that judging from seats available on their web site, ORD has been slow to pick up again on resumption although I realise the few weeks post Easter are not the busiest period. On JFK, I assume the take-up of the extra J class seats on the 767 (28 in the refurbished config.) compared to only 16 on the 757 will be important.

As regards UA and probably mentioned already, I see that 767s have been allocated to Madrid, Barcelona, Hamburg and Berlin for next winter instead of 757s. (two of those may have been 767s in the summer but 75s previously in the winter, but I stand to be corrected on that.) If as you say more 767s become available, it will be interesting to discover whether MAN benefits. And would UA just use a 767 for EWR?

That leaves AA/US to PHL and VS to ATL as far as current winter schedules are concerned and what frequency DL plan for JFK.

Edit: Actually, AA loads on both ORD & JFK for tomorrow look much more healthy based on seats available. Can't say the same for the PHL over the next few days, although the 20 seat J class cabin doesn't look too bad.

Last edited by MANFOD; 28th Apr 2015 at 13:31.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 15:42
  #1756 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MAN
Posts: 305
Seat occupancy a day or two ahead of departure is not a good indicator of the demand for premium seats. US carriers upgrade their elite customers in the days leading up to travel. For example, AA offer their ExPlats (akin to BA Gold) a number of complimentary upgrades.

Many's the time I've seen J cabins on US/AA ex-MAN go from very quiet a week out from departure to much busier on the day. Part of the problem is that the frequencies and timings ex-MAN are not attractive to business travellers. That's one of the reasons why a lot of business pax from our neck of the woods still trek down to LHR to pick up better timed flights.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 16:11
  #1757 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cheshire
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I take your point Basil and is why I tend to focus on flights in the next couple of days. Even then, as you say, it is not accurate, but it gives an indication of how the flight is booked overall.

Thinking of AA upgrades, I recall back in the 1990s when I went to ORD occasionally, there a voucher system and I usually found myself in Business although my ticket was Economy. The company apparently got these upgrade vouchers because of the regular bookings for its Directors in Business Class.
I guess the system has changed somewhat.

Incidentally Basil, why do you say the timings of the MAN flights are not attractive? Lack of frequency I can understand. Are you suggesting they operate too early some business travellers given we have no TATL flights after midday?
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 16:45
  #1758 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MAN
Posts: 305
Yes, for some people the morning departures are unattractive - some workaholics (unlike me) like to pretend they can get part of the day at work before flying. But the bigger problem is with the return flights - the ORD departure (at around 6pm) is particularly useless if you have any afternoon meetings. That's why a lot of business pax will prefer a 9pm-ish flight to LHR. That's certainly been the case for me on more than one occasion.

It's a chicken and egg situation really - the transatlantic routes will struggle for yield unless frequency is increased so as to compete with the greater schedule depth out of hubs like LHR. But why would AA, UA and DL increase frequencies if it just competes with their own ops ex-LHR? i don't know the answer I'm afraid.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 17:02
  #1759 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London
Posts: 2,962
From 1st May 2016, Thomas Cook will increase MAN-JFK to 6 weekly, with just Wednesday having no flight.

I will be the first to admit that I thought TCX wouldn't last on the MAN-NYC market, but, it seems they are more than holding their own now they have doubled frequency. Not bad considering they have to fill a high density A330 too.

Other increases/new routes for 2016 will be Boston on Wed/Sun, Los Angeles on Mon/Sat, Las Vegas goes 6 weekly peak summer and Varadero goes 2 weekly.

Im told Barbados/St. Lucia/Antigua will also make it to summer routes and the 2nd Orlando on Tuesdays will route to Tampa instead, but, these are not showing on any platform yet, so remains to be seen if those additions are true or not.

The new flights should be announced on Thursday, barring Boston which will be announced at a later date.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 17:19
  #1760 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southampton, U.K
Posts: 1,148
TCX almost seem to be a 'Norwegian of the north' when it comes to long haul routes. It is good to see them growing so well from MAN and helping to make it a viable alternative to going via Heathrow for point to point travellers.
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