MANCHESTER 1
Join Date: Aug 2002
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The talk was for G-ZZZA/B/C to be reconfigured and moved to MAN.
It still seems a complete FUBAR that American couldn't make the B787-8 work on MAN-ORD with alongside almost new A332s running MAN-PHL. The point to point traffic was gifted back to them after BMI gave up and they still saw fit to run clapped out B757/B763 hard product.
Particularly when the competitive environment is increasingly competitive with focus from VS/DL and TCX and DY banging the war drums.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 6th Mar 2017 at 11:51.
The oldest oddballs in the fleet with the shortest range (!)
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Logohu
G-BMGS I remember her, and two cancellations I had with her, and subsequent re route via LHR as fault was going to be a long cure as we were told.
Very sad to hear about demise of Delta at Man they have been there a long time as I recall, perhaps one of the earliest US carriers to operate in with L1011 in the early days. The service was good back then and Atlanta was a smaller airport to navigate as well.
The points being made about £ v $ may have something to do with it as I have been in Houston a few times recently (SQ flight ex MAN - doing OK re load factors IMHO) and the costs have become noticeably higher. I think the days of cheap trips to Disney World and Florida maybe over for quite some time, with a cut back on other US destinations for holidays, and perhaps DL are sensing this and cutting and running early. Does not bode well for other leisure market US flights if this is the case.
It is anecdotal but my wife was flying back from SFO last week with VS via LHR, and talking to some of the crew she got the impression that they too had noticed a reduction in holiday traffic resulting from Brexit and resulting drop in exchange rate. Her own thoughts are that we are heading for $1.10 or lower to the £1. As she has to deal in this sort of thing on a daily basis and its effects, I tend to back her judgment more than our own politicians and there vested interest. If it does drop to those levels I think you will see an awful lot of empty A/C heading west from UK especially to the bucket and spade destinations, and I include the Caribbean in that list. Anyone for Blackpool ?
May you live in interesting times as the saying goes !
Regards
Mr Mac
G-BMGS I remember her, and two cancellations I had with her, and subsequent re route via LHR as fault was going to be a long cure as we were told.
Very sad to hear about demise of Delta at Man they have been there a long time as I recall, perhaps one of the earliest US carriers to operate in with L1011 in the early days. The service was good back then and Atlanta was a smaller airport to navigate as well.
The points being made about £ v $ may have something to do with it as I have been in Houston a few times recently (SQ flight ex MAN - doing OK re load factors IMHO) and the costs have become noticeably higher. I think the days of cheap trips to Disney World and Florida maybe over for quite some time, with a cut back on other US destinations for holidays, and perhaps DL are sensing this and cutting and running early. Does not bode well for other leisure market US flights if this is the case.
It is anecdotal but my wife was flying back from SFO last week with VS via LHR, and talking to some of the crew she got the impression that they too had noticed a reduction in holiday traffic resulting from Brexit and resulting drop in exchange rate. Her own thoughts are that we are heading for $1.10 or lower to the £1. As she has to deal in this sort of thing on a daily basis and its effects, I tend to back her judgment more than our own politicians and there vested interest. If it does drop to those levels I think you will see an awful lot of empty A/C heading west from UK especially to the bucket and spade destinations, and I include the Caribbean in that list. Anyone for Blackpool ?
May you live in interesting times as the saying goes !
Regards
Mr Mac
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It still seems a complete FUBAR that American couldn't make the B787-8 work on MAN-ORD with alongside almost new A332s running MAN-PHL. The point to point traffic was gifted back to them after BMI gave up and they still saw fit to run clapped out B757/B763 hard product.
MAN-ORD has dropped from a 260k PAX a year route to barely 70k. Perhaps demonstrates what a lack of competition achieves. Hopefully, it'll be put right in the next year or two.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Virgin used to do the same with Orlando. Replacing a brand new A343 by leasing in PH-MCG, a B767 then their releasing their own sold-on B747 classics operated by Air Atlanta on the Icelandic register. Amazing what happens when you put your own new (ish) metal on a route. People thing you understand their needs and, wait for it, book repeat business.
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Wasn't there a period where BA's idea of providing a service to JFK from MAN was to operate a B707 weekly? I wish I'd kept a copy of some of the comments from the business community about that.
Regarding the large drop in pax on MAN-ORD, I think there are several factors at work:
I used the AA service shortly after its inauguration in the 80s and was surprised how reasonably busy the B767 was. In the 90's, I used the flight several times for work over 4 or 5 years, often in J class which was invariably full or nearly so. However, although ORD was my final destination, I often wondered for how how of the passengers it was simply a transfer hub.
Nowadays, cheaper deals can probably be obtained by flying via DUB or KEF to a final destination.
MAN itself now has non-stop flights by TCX to MIA and LAX and shortly to SFO, and while this will hopefully have attracted new passengers, it will inevitably have creamed off some who previously flew via ORD. (I suppose the same argument applies to ATL). We used the BMI service to ORD in 2001 to fly onto LAS which can now be flown direct for most of the year.
It's inconceivable that the lamentable performance of the B788 last summer didn't hurt passengers confidence in the reliability of the service.
I suspect the service going seasonal also affected demand adversely, particularly among business travellers.
I very much hope MAN-ORD survives with whichever carrier but given the current exchange rate and uncertainties, it's understandable to wonder if it will.
Regarding the large drop in pax on MAN-ORD, I think there are several factors at work:
I used the AA service shortly after its inauguration in the 80s and was surprised how reasonably busy the B767 was. In the 90's, I used the flight several times for work over 4 or 5 years, often in J class which was invariably full or nearly so. However, although ORD was my final destination, I often wondered for how how of the passengers it was simply a transfer hub.
Nowadays, cheaper deals can probably be obtained by flying via DUB or KEF to a final destination.
MAN itself now has non-stop flights by TCX to MIA and LAX and shortly to SFO, and while this will hopefully have attracted new passengers, it will inevitably have creamed off some who previously flew via ORD. (I suppose the same argument applies to ATL). We used the BMI service to ORD in 2001 to fly onto LAS which can now be flown direct for most of the year.
It's inconceivable that the lamentable performance of the B788 last summer didn't hurt passengers confidence in the reliability of the service.
I suspect the service going seasonal also affected demand adversely, particularly among business travellers.
I very much hope MAN-ORD survives with whichever carrier but given the current exchange rate and uncertainties, it's understandable to wonder if it will.
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Could TCX have a stab at it if AA go altogether? I know routes like MIA, JFK, LAX etc all have leisure demand that perhaps ORD doesn't, which aids TCX, but its looking like they are doing rather well long haul wise, and are obviously becoming a better known brand the other side of the pond as well so couldn't they give it a go?
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The vast majority of their LH Route network from MAN is USA focused. If that struggles over the next few years I'll bet they actually want some LH routes to other parts of the world to try and cushion the blow.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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In the dark grey waters MAN's North Atlantic Convoy has been steaming ahead at full speed. And now, having lost its escort of favourable exchange rates and super-cheap oil, faces the pincer-like threat of Brexit icebergs and Trump U-Boats. Its precious cargo of tourist Pounds sinking to the sea floor in the East by West tempest of the Dollar and Euro. Did we hear a shout from the bridge 'Full Astern, Mr. Branson!'. 'Bring her about, Mr. Parker'. If so, who will presently have the courage to fire a broadside into this shifting flotilla? Or will the guns fall silent, saving their powder for battles farther afield. A minefield perhaps lies ahead, but MAN's convoy is now of such number that a good many will make it through to port. Steady as she goes.
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Roverman
A friend of mine at school who's father was quite old when he was conceived; served on convey PQ17 and was one of the "lucky" survivors.
It was the withdrawal of the Escorts + Air cover that sealed the fates of the merchant ships - A political decision. Your analogy is a bit overstated but not by much.
What a mess.
CAT III
It was the withdrawal of the Escorts + Air cover that sealed the fates of the merchant ships - A political decision. Your analogy is a bit overstated but not by much.
What a mess.
CAT III
Last edited by Guest 112233; 6th Mar 2017 at 21:32.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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One page back, MAN was the best connected airport in the UK with direct access to the rail network and more regional connectivity than any other UK airfield. Now people can't access it? A lot can happen in turning a page.
Btw sirhumphreynorth sounds a lot like bagso.....
Btw sirhumphreynorth sounds a lot like bagso.....
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Why are banned people allowed back on the site with new names? I don't get it. The owners and majority of users of the site don't want to read their tedious repeating comments. Yet they keep coming back posting the same old ****
Btw sirhumphreynorth sounds a lot like bagso.....
Still I suppose "Bernard" will be waiting in the wings!
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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I for one read all the post on this thread, they are all about MAN. If certain post are irritating just skip them. Met crew member off the AA flight from PHL last week, she told me and Mrs Sam only about 100 people on the inbound leg.
Cheers Sam
Cheers Sam
If a person is banned from the forum, then surely to come back under another name and continue, then surely that is wrong(?).
If Pprune powers have made a decision then it should be respected.
If Pprune powers have made a decision then it should be respected.
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I recognise that I may be slated for my comments but I fully endorse observations about the continuing dialogue over HS2 and other issues not being appropriate to Pprune. I accept the right to freedom of speech but this is an AVIATION forum so if those wishing to discuss trains then
perhaps they could go elsewhere. Therefore so that they are not inhibited maybe they can try UK Railway Discussion - RailUK Forums
perhaps they could go elsewhere. Therefore so that they are not inhibited maybe they can try UK Railway Discussion - RailUK Forums