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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Exactly BHX5DME, nor the prospect of lower APD in Scotland which surely tempted Norwegian up there.
In other news, Powdair have confirmed MAN-Sion will be 2 weekly from 17th December using a Tradeair F100.
In other news, Powdair have confirmed MAN-Sion will be 2 weekly from 17th December using a Tradeair F100.
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Just to clear a little confusion ORK, SNN & DUB are definitely in Eire, which left the UK 🇬🇧 in 1919. So as an independent state it can set it's own APD. BFS is unique in the U.K. as it has to compete on the same island as the Eire. So the U.K. Gov recognised this and allow the Northern Irish assembly to compete.
So yes EDI & Scotland "might" (Greens, Lab, Lib Dems & Tories are against it a mojority in the parliament) have reduced APD but seriously the Scottish market isn't a big part of Manchester's as it's served quite well with Glasgow & Edinburgh. Now if Manchester gave Norwegian free slots like Edinburgh (result of fierce competition between GLA & EDI) then I would say Norwegian would have flights from there but as I suspect MAN may be looking to protect the airlines that already serve that market. LGW (which is in England) has a very strong Norwegian presence.
So all I say watch out for what you wish for. Edinburgh seems very saturated with US flights. I suspect as DL have started new services in GLA that the full fare carriers will be worried that their profits will be hit in EDI and have retrench to markets with less competition. If Norwegian came to Manchester would that affect TCX and DL/VS operations. I think MAG & AGS will watch developments at EDI closely to see if Norwegian kills of AA, UA & DL operations there.
So yes EDI & Scotland "might" (Greens, Lab, Lib Dems & Tories are against it a mojority in the parliament) have reduced APD but seriously the Scottish market isn't a big part of Manchester's as it's served quite well with Glasgow & Edinburgh. Now if Manchester gave Norwegian free slots like Edinburgh (result of fierce competition between GLA & EDI) then I would say Norwegian would have flights from there but as I suspect MAN may be looking to protect the airlines that already serve that market. LGW (which is in England) has a very strong Norwegian presence.
So all I say watch out for what you wish for. Edinburgh seems very saturated with US flights. I suspect as DL have started new services in GLA that the full fare carriers will be worried that their profits will be hit in EDI and have retrench to markets with less competition. If Norwegian came to Manchester would that affect TCX and DL/VS operations. I think MAG & AGS will watch developments at EDI closely to see if Norwegian kills of AA, UA & DL operations there.
Join Date: Jan 2013
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GLA/EDI
In terms of BFS, its not just the special rate APD, it's more the monetary hand outs the government seem to have no issue giving. They were ready to give it to UA and look to have given D8 a similar deal, competing with Eire or not, seems a rather unfair that NI gets to hand out both lower APD and money, while the UK regions, who in a way also compete with Europe when it comes to long haul cannot leverage such deals.
Also, Scotland is very much part of the MAN catchment. Yes, EDI and GLA serve Scotland well, but there is a reason there are direct trains from MAN to Scotland, frequent domestics and road travel. MAN also did offer Norwegian good slots, they were cancelled very very late on though, which seems like someone else swooped in with a lower offer at the 11th hour.
In terms of saturation, it smacks somewhat of BS when Norwegian state MAN has 'too much competition at this time' but then add 12-14 weekly flights to the infinitely more competative Dublin.
In terms of BFS, its not just the special rate APD, it's more the monetary hand outs the government seem to have no issue giving. They were ready to give it to UA and look to have given D8 a similar deal, competing with Eire or not, seems a rather unfair that NI gets to hand out both lower APD and money, while the UK regions, who in a way also compete with Europe when it comes to long haul cannot leverage such deals.
Also, Scotland is very much part of the MAN catchment. Yes, EDI and GLA serve Scotland well, but there is a reason there are direct trains from MAN to Scotland, frequent domestics and road travel. MAN also did offer Norwegian good slots, they were cancelled very very late on though, which seems like someone else swooped in with a lower offer at the 11th hour.
In terms of saturation, it smacks somewhat of BS when Norwegian state MAN has 'too much competition at this time' but then add 12-14 weekly flights to the infinitely more competative Dublin.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Now if Manchester gave Norwegian free slots like Edinburgh (result of fierce competition between GLA & EDI) then I would say Norwegian would have flights from there but as I suspect MAN may be looking to protect the airlines that already serve that market
MAN also did offer Norwegian good slots, they were cancelled very very late on though, which seems like someone else swooped in with a lower offer at the 11th hour.
No money changes hands at MAN does it? In any case the slot purchases at LHR do not involve the Airport - it is an airline to airline thing.
I assume that when you say someone swooped in with a lower offer you mean that another airport offered a better commercial deal rather than anything to do with slots.
Or am I missing something here?
Last edited by Suzeman; 23rd Feb 2017 at 17:36.
Join Date: Dec 2013
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I don't know why people on here are whining about Northern Ireland getting 2 (not even daily) transatlantic routes? Manchester has 25 different North American routes at the moment.
Why would you want a fly to Stewart International Airport, when you can already fly to Newark and JFK?
Why would you want a fly to Stewart International Airport, when you can already fly to Newark and JFK?
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Firstly, it's not so much that BFS got the 2 flights, it's how it gets them in the grand scheme of things.
In terms of 'why would you want to fly to Stewart when you have JFK/EWR already?' I don't know, maybe the same reasons as DUB perhaps, doesn't seem to stop pax booking flights there?
In terms of 'why would you want to fly to Stewart when you have JFK/EWR already?' I don't know, maybe the same reasons as DUB perhaps, doesn't seem to stop pax booking flights there?
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Slot allocations
I thought the only thing that MAN do is declare the capacity and independent company ACL allocate the slots according to the EU regulations. Isn't that the same as at GLA and EDI?
No money changes hands at MAN does it? In any case the slot purchases at LHR do not involve the Airport - it is an airline to airline thing.
I assume that when you say someone swooped in with a lower offer you mean that another airport offered a better commercial deal rather than anything to do with slots.
Or am I missing something here?
No money changes hands at MAN does it? In any case the slot purchases at LHR do not involve the Airport - it is an airline to airline thing.
I assume that when you say someone swooped in with a lower offer you mean that another airport offered a better commercial deal rather than anything to do with slots.
Or am I missing something here?
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Sorry maybe slots is wrong term more like landing charges. I do appreciate that yes there is a small amount of people traveling to Manchester from Scotland same as probably vice versa from Manchester, Cumbria & Northhumberland that go North especially during school holidays.
The Scottish Government's aim is to reduce the travel via London which dwarfs the connections through Manchester. It's also to promote more direct flights.
Politically I do have some sympathy with BHX & MAN. The U.K. is an Union of 4 countries therefore Scotland & Northern Ireland have every right to legislate for the better of their respective peoples. Maybe at some point an English parliament will be created that will rebalance the regions of England. London is supported by Westminster and the Crown which will always promote that area.
The Scottish Government's aim is to reduce the travel via London which dwarfs the connections through Manchester. It's also to promote more direct flights.
Politically I do have some sympathy with BHX & MAN. The U.K. is an Union of 4 countries therefore Scotland & Northern Ireland have every right to legislate for the better of their respective peoples. Maybe at some point an English parliament will be created that will rebalance the regions of England. London is supported by Westminster and the Crown which will always promote that area.
Join Date: Aug 2016
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I'm sure MAN will have access to data on where their PAX live. From my limited experience (observations at Tebay services!) I think you'll find that quite significant numbers originate in Scotland. As has been discussed before, Scots have got into the habit of avoiding London airports, and use MAN, AMS, the ME3 etc as interchange points for longhaul journeys.
Join Date: Jul 2015
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InOban, from my role at Glasgow & Edinburgh can vouch that during the English hols the Scottish airports are full of Geordies, Cumbrian, Liverpudlians & Mancunians. Remember the rail station built specifically for this to happen at Edinburgh. Glasgow will have it's rail connection as well.
Norwegian will go where the they get the best deal. MAG, BHX & AGS would have spoken to them. What ever was said, done or not offered will be for their respective owners. They all have to look at their current airlines, there's no reason to let Norwegian in only to see AA, DL/VS, UA or TCX leave. At the moment APD is the same. If the Scottish Government lower it then instead of complaining about the Scottish Government, take it up with Westminster.
All I'm saying Norwegian could yet prove a nasty pill at Edinburgh & maybe Manchester will be lucky as they'll still have the other carriers. It's very interesting time. Lots of seats to fill Transatlantic with a falling £. I know having recently been in the US, it's expensive over there.
Norwegian will go where the they get the best deal. MAG, BHX & AGS would have spoken to them. What ever was said, done or not offered will be for their respective owners. They all have to look at their current airlines, there's no reason to let Norwegian in only to see AA, DL/VS, UA or TCX leave. At the moment APD is the same. If the Scottish Government lower it then instead of complaining about the Scottish Government, take it up with Westminster.
All I'm saying Norwegian could yet prove a nasty pill at Edinburgh & maybe Manchester will be lucky as they'll still have the other carriers. It's very interesting time. Lots of seats to fill Transatlantic with a falling £. I know having recently been in the US, it's expensive over there.
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Interesting. I can understand Cumbrians and Geordies using EDI or GLA, but I'm mystified why anyone from Liverpool or Manchester would want or need to use either airport.
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Price, the difference the last two weeks of English summer hols from Glasgow & Edinburgh can be half of what is charged at Manchester. It's the same for the first two weeks of the Scots hols hence the attraction of Manchester for Scots. Also from having a daughter in English schools all her mid-term hols are different actually the only hols that are the same is Xmas.
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Price, the difference the last two weeks of English summer hols from Glasgow & Edinburgh can be half of what is charged at Manchester. It's the same for the first two weeks of the Scots hols hence the attraction of Manchester for Scots. Also from having a daughter in English schools all her mid-term hols are different actually the only hols that are the same is Xmas.
Join Date: Feb 2016
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LHR was woeful for years, decaying terminals, end of life structures and basically coming apartt at the seams. Then a lot of money was spent to undertake a strategic rebuild to make the airfield and terminals fit for a 21st century audience.
MAN is now in the same place LHR was, infrastructure lagging well behind with bespoke bolt ons versus strategic decisions made to drive sustainable change. Multi terminal operations with alliances split (not a huge issue tbh) and some building being used for traffic for which they were never intended, T3 is a clear example.
MAN is now in the same place LHR was, infrastructure lagging well behind with bespoke bolt ons versus strategic decisions made to drive sustainable change. Multi terminal operations with alliances split (not a huge issue tbh) and some building being used for traffic for which they were never intended, T3 is a clear example.
The opportunity is there to completely change the perception of MAN within the industry and to the general public. This opportunity may be lost.
Of course, if this was never financially feasible it is a moot point, although this does not explain why the perception was placed out there in the first instance.
Of course MAN may achieve this anyway, but I am much less confident about this than I was a few short months ago.
Last edited by Dobbo_Dobbo; 27th Feb 2017 at 13:22.