MANCHESTER 1
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Odd, and probably warrants an explanation.
LGW yield may even be lower hence needs to go daily to be credible in market whereas MAN can be slightly constrained and more profitable?
Either that or LGW makes more money than MAN which would not be my first view, but outside of Cathay Towers, who knows?
CX
Also given the strength of the ME3 carriers at MAN, the ramping up of SQ & of course HU, you would think having re-established MAN, that CX would ensure they protected thei market share up North. As Spanners says 6 LON flights A DAY v 5 MAN a WEEK is hardly logical IMHO.
You can only "assume" they know what they are doing.
You can only "assume" they know what they are doing.
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I think Skipness makes reasonable points. Business class has received the biggest increase which suggests yield is doing okay.
As the aircraft is slightly smaller (A359 from B77W) the capacity of economy and cargo is likely to be quite flat.
As the aircraft is slightly smaller (A359 from B77W) the capacity of economy and cargo is likely to be quite flat.
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I really don't understand the fascination with London. 6 flts a day, probably more than all the other direct flights by other airlines put together!
It is a bit of a slap in the face for MAN, first promised the 350 this year instead LGW gets it, then promised daily from next summer, again LGW gets it! I don't get it at all!!
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The logical explanation is that they make more money from LGW, but that flies in the face of the incicators we have. Of course, CX house will know more than we do.
It will be interesting if an explanation is forthcoming. Perhaps it is only temporary - would be good to hear the intent remains.
It will be interesting if an explanation is forthcoming. Perhaps it is only temporary - would be good to hear the intent remains.
Last edited by Dobbo_Dobbo; 13th Dec 2016 at 20:44.
Maybe CX just being cautious in the light of mixed economic forecasts for next year, weaker pound etc. Maybe the arrival of HU, nonstop SQ, EK going all A380 etc has put pressure on yields ? Maybe LGW is struggling at 4pw given there is 5x daily CX just up the road ?
Either way it's still an increase for MAN of 1 flight and 40 seats (4%) a week overall (more increase in the posh seats) - and they're putting their latest kit on the route. Many other airports would kill for that....
Either way it's still an increase for MAN of 1 flight and 40 seats (4%) a week overall (more increase in the posh seats) - and they're putting their latest kit on the route. Many other airports would kill for that....
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I think it's indicative of how well Manchester is doing at the moment that an extra flight to Hong Kong and a brand new aircraft is seen as 'disappointing'.
I have heard the last 2 flights to make it a daily schedule could be added around September time. The A350 is still a relatively small fleet and it was obviously decided LGW would get the extra flights at this time.
It could also be a case that LGW is, itself, getting pretty full in the morning in summers, with very few good slots left. It could well be that CX had a 'use it or loose it' offer and took it, as the early morning slots may be hard to come by in the future?
I have heard the last 2 flights to make it a daily schedule could be added around September time. The A350 is still a relatively small fleet and it was obviously decided LGW would get the extra flights at this time.
It could also be a case that LGW is, itself, getting pretty full in the morning in summers, with very few good slots left. It could well be that CX had a 'use it or loose it' offer and took it, as the early morning slots may be hard to come by in the future?
Airline Route now confirming SQ change to A350s from 17 January. Same schedule and frequency (5 weekly)
So per service there is a loss of 8 First and 41 Y seats, a gain of 24 premium Y seats (currently not available on the 77Ws), thus an overall loss of 25 seats.
So per service there is a loss of 8 First and 41 Y seats, a gain of 24 premium Y seats (currently not available on the 77Ws), thus an overall loss of 25 seats.
Re comments on why SQ and CX are switching to a smaller aircraft: A359 burns considerably less fuel than 777 (20% + vs 772) so revenue per seat is higher, so while overall revenue may be down due less pax than a nearly full B77W, profit will be greater.
Last edited by Una Due Tfc; 14th Dec 2016 at 08:08.
overall revenue may be down due less pax than a nearly full B77W, profit will be greater.
Only on the Manchester thread would you find this debate! A major international airline (CX) announces an increase in service - and there are complaints that it's not enough as London got more. Unbelievable.
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Agreed Chaps, I thought with all that is happening around the world plus brexit and the state of the pound,it would slow our progress down. Full steam ahead though it seems.
Cheers Sam
Cheers Sam
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Only on the Manchester thread would you find this debate! A major international airline (CX) announces an increase in service - and there are complaints that it's not enough as London got more. Unbelievable.
MAN has seen significant wins this year and it's amusing how 'we' have a bit of whinge about the 5 weekly CX service. I mean, don't you remember the winters of the early 80's? BA 1-11, BA 1-11, BA Trident, BA 1-11
Onwards and upwards
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It's not about whinging so much as an expression of a degree of disappointment. If you've ever completed a survey about a hotel stay or holiday, the question isn't a bland "did you enjoy it". It's "did it meet your expectations", or "did we exceed your expectations"
Not just based on rumour or slot applications, the reasonable expectations here were that CX would go daily and those expectations were not met. Hence a degree of disappointment. The fact that LGW has got a daily flight didn't help.
But yes, the fact that we are getting an extra flight with more premium seats and a slight increase overall in pax capacity on a newer a/c is welcome.
Not just based on rumour or slot applications, the reasonable expectations here were that CX would go daily and those expectations were not met. Hence a degree of disappointment. The fact that LGW has got a daily flight didn't help.
But yes, the fact that we are getting an extra flight with more premium seats and a slight increase overall in pax capacity on a newer a/c is welcome.
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Singapores new Houston service seems to be off to a fairly slow start.
Outbound numbers have been slowly rising to around the 120 - 150 mark.
The return service has been even slower with numbers in the 90 - 140 region.
Both the Singapore legs are struggling to hit the 180 mark.
Some loads have been very low. I doubt it will come as a surprise tho given the short lead up time prior to starting the new route and the time of year. It looks like it's going to take some time to settle in and become an established route.
The universities will be breaking for Christmas very shortly and many others will be heading to warmer climates for their Christmas so maybe that will push the numbers up.
Outbound numbers have been slowly rising to around the 120 - 150 mark.
The return service has been even slower with numbers in the 90 - 140 region.
Both the Singapore legs are struggling to hit the 180 mark.
Some loads have been very low. I doubt it will come as a surprise tho given the short lead up time prior to starting the new route and the time of year. It looks like it's going to take some time to settle in and become an established route.
The universities will be breaking for Christmas very shortly and many others will be heading to warmer climates for their Christmas so maybe that will push the numbers up.
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SQ Transit pax effect on apparent LF
With the SQ SIN-MAN-IAH you have to allow for the passengers in transit through MAN who will not be counted in the MAN-SIN and MAN-IAH figures.
We won't know how many actually are in transit on a particular flight but it seems reasonable to assume that they will account for 25-50% of the total. So if a MAN-SIN has 'only' 120 pax there may well be another 120 routing IAH-SIN transiting MAN, making a pretty full aircraft. The whole 264 seats will not be available for MAN O/D pax and so load factors ex-MAN are more difficult to quantify.
Incidentally I have seen a report showing the Jan 17th switch to A350, quoting 253 seats against 264 for B77W, which is a drop of just 11 seats per flight. With lower operating costs and similar revenues that should be a boost to the bottom line for this route.
We won't know how many actually are in transit on a particular flight but it seems reasonable to assume that they will account for 25-50% of the total. So if a MAN-SIN has 'only' 120 pax there may well be another 120 routing IAH-SIN transiting MAN, making a pretty full aircraft. The whole 264 seats will not be available for MAN O/D pax and so load factors ex-MAN are more difficult to quantify.
Incidentally I have seen a report showing the Jan 17th switch to A350, quoting 253 seats against 264 for B77W, which is a drop of just 11 seats per flight. With lower operating costs and similar revenues that should be a boost to the bottom line for this route.