MANCHESTER 1
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Leeds
Posts: 496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's great that MAN is going to benefit from DME's misfortune.
I hope the routes are successful and continue the growth of MAN which has been unprecidented over the last 12-18 months.
I hope the routes are successful and continue the growth of MAN which has been unprecidented over the last 12-18 months.
Two on the ground at the same time is going to be challenging for the groundhandling teams.
90 min transits. Hmmmm. Well we'll see.
90 min transits. Hmmmm. Well we'll see.
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Leeds
Posts: 496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SIA / Virgin
Are we not just a little carried away here re SIA ? They are only slot applications, and as we know, it is routine for slots to be applied for and never activated.
When it's announced and/or bookable, then we can be assured it will actually operate.
There is no doubt of a need of a more premium trans Atlantic operation from MAN.
There is also no doubt onboard SIA, there is generally a good product,however, from personal experience, ground handling issues are not so. Hence for me, a frequent business class pax, SIA is on my personal no fly list.(But that's another matter)
As SIA are in Star Alliance it would be very puzzling for them to operate any route without the co-operation or co-ordination with their partners.
Since the sale of the SIA share in Virgin, is there an expiry of the current codeshare with them? Surely Virgin must be in line for joining Skyteam now they are alligned with Delta ? The lack of any alliance has been a weakness in the Virgin operation IMHO.
When it's announced and/or bookable, then we can be assured it will actually operate.
There is no doubt of a need of a more premium trans Atlantic operation from MAN.
There is also no doubt onboard SIA, there is generally a good product,however, from personal experience, ground handling issues are not so. Hence for me, a frequent business class pax, SIA is on my personal no fly list.(But that's another matter)
As SIA are in Star Alliance it would be very puzzling for them to operate any route without the co-operation or co-ordination with their partners.
Since the sale of the SIA share in Virgin, is there an expiry of the current codeshare with them? Surely Virgin must be in line for joining Skyteam now they are alligned with Delta ? The lack of any alliance has been a weakness in the Virgin operation IMHO.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kerry Eire
Age: 76
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what observations show the large number of ABZ transfers on IAH-LHR?
from observations on many LHR-IAH-LHR trips there is still a good deal of travel from and to between IAH and ABZ
Now to the detail. There is a large British ex-pat community in the greater Houston area which works in the oil and gas industries. Many of the international companies based in Houston still have bases in Aberdeen and many of the families maintain a base in the Scottish city or have family there. From observation at check in, talking to people in the departure lounge and, more substantively, having a wide range of contacts with people employed in many of the major companies, Aberdeen is a significant destination and source of passengers to and from Houston, be they on business or personal travel. There are currently three ways most people make the trip. KLM over AMS, Air France over CDG, both offering connections and through ticketing, or BA and United to (note TO) Heathrow. Whilst business travellers tend to transfer at LHR to an ABZ flight, many personal travellers spend some time elsewhere in the country either visiting family or just vacationing before travelling on to Aberdeen by road or rail. There has been dissatisfaction with the standard of the equipment and service to Heathrow, particularly the state of BA's 747s, but the route now has a 777 on the 194/5 and a 787 on the 196/7.
Those who use KLM and Air France would generally prefer a UK transit and choose AMS or CDG to either avoid LHR or UA/BA or both.
Eventually there will be an upswing in the oil business and not only will Aberdeen be a player but Manchester also has significant oil related equipment manufacturing companies based in its catchment area. Houston is very much the administrative centre for most of the world's oil and gas companies outside of Russia. It has limited European connections for a city of its size, only AMS, CDG, FRA, IST and LHR being served. From a gas and oil perspective, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Inverness, Norwich, Oslo and Stavanger are either major centres for the industries or have the industries in their catchment areas, all being served from MAN, so there is potential for onward connections or code shares.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kerry Eire
Age: 76
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are we not just a little carried away here re SIA ? They are only slot applications, and as we know, it is routine for slots to be applied for and never activated.
When it's announced and/or bookable, then we can be assured it will actually operate.
There is no doubt of a need of a more premium trans Atlantic operation from MAN.
There is also no doubt onboard SIA, there is generally a good product,however, from personal experience, ground handling issues are not so. Hence for me, a frequent business class pax, SIA is on my personal no fly list.(But that's another matter)
As SIA are in Star Alliance it would be very puzzling for them to operate any route without the co-operation or co-ordination with their partners.
Since the sale of the SIA share in Virgin, is there an expiry of the current codeshare with them? Surely Virgin must be in line for joining Skyteam now they are alligned with Delta ? The lack of any alliance has been a weakness in the Virgin operation IMHO.
When it's announced and/or bookable, then we can be assured it will actually operate.
There is no doubt of a need of a more premium trans Atlantic operation from MAN.
There is also no doubt onboard SIA, there is generally a good product,however, from personal experience, ground handling issues are not so. Hence for me, a frequent business class pax, SIA is on my personal no fly list.(But that's another matter)
As SIA are in Star Alliance it would be very puzzling for them to operate any route without the co-operation or co-ordination with their partners.
Since the sale of the SIA share in Virgin, is there an expiry of the current codeshare with them? Surely Virgin must be in line for joining Skyteam now they are alligned with Delta ? The lack of any alliance has been a weakness in the Virgin operation IMHO.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unless SAS change the times of their first arrivals into MAN, they won't connect to the 09.40 departure to IAH that was posted on here (unless that proposed SQ schedule changes.)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London
Posts: 2,962
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are we not just a little carried away here re SIA ? They are only slot applications, and as we know, it is routine for slots to be applied for and never activated.
Firstly, there is a lot more behind the scenes than just the slot request. Note that the slot request doesn't even give the destination, so, it's not just a lot of excitement over that. The slot request is the only piece of information that can be shared publicly. The other evidence cannot.
Secondly, yes, slots can be applied for and never used, but as I've said previously, I'm not aware of any other time in Singapore Airlines history at MAN that they have applied for slots and never used them, the only slots they have applied for have been duly utilised, so that in itself is promising.
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Leeds
Posts: 496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That may be accurate for the SIN-DME-IAH routing, but that is clearly not working, hence the change, and possibility of seeing a new business plan for the route.
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Leeds
Posts: 496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe that is something SAS can think about and implement as and when this route is confirmed. Without such confirmation, there is no point in SAS making any changes.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldn't be too confident about SAS rescheduling their MAN operations to facilitate connections for the benefit of afew passengers attracted by a single daily flight to IAH operated by a different airline. It is too easy on a forum such as this one to think within the mindset of 'friend of Manchester Airport'. Instead, we need to take a step back and think with the mindset of an SAS executive.
What is preferable from the perspective of SAS profitability? Option 1: the customer flies long-haul on SAS metal from Scandinavia to a US East Coast hub paying a long-haul fare to SAS, then changes onto a United Airlines domestic connection to IAH/HOU. Option 2: the customer flies short-haul with SAS to MAN, transferring there to a different long-haul carrier for the lucrative sector to IAH. I'm guessing that SAS won't be falling over themselves to dilute their own transatlantic long-haul business for the convenience of SIA at MAN, even if they are ostensibly 'partners' within a nebulous alliance.
What is preferable from the perspective of SAS profitability? Option 1: the customer flies long-haul on SAS metal from Scandinavia to a US East Coast hub paying a long-haul fare to SAS, then changes onto a United Airlines domestic connection to IAH/HOU. Option 2: the customer flies short-haul with SAS to MAN, transferring there to a different long-haul carrier for the lucrative sector to IAH. I'm guessing that SAS won't be falling over themselves to dilute their own transatlantic long-haul business for the convenience of SIA at MAN, even if they are ostensibly 'partners' within a nebulous alliance.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kerry Eire
Age: 76
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shed, that's a well reasoned point and certainly the code share and through ticketing opportunities are far greater at the IAH end for pax originating in MAN than the other way around. SAS's evening flight to Oslo could be a code share and whilst a ten hour layover sounds crazy, especially for business travellers, it would be by no means excessive compared to some routings offered between points around the world.
These days company travel finances are stretched. I know of one oil company which has to move people from a US location to a South American city on a regular basis. There is no direct flight between the cities concerned. They can fly their people over a thousand miles in the wrong direction for a connection and have a journey time of twelve hours but the cost is the best part of $500 each way more in economy and almost double that in business than the fare through an airport on a more direct route with a cheaper carrier and a journey time of nineteen hours, eleven hours of which is spent on the ground at the intermediate airport. Even multi billion dollar oil companies are using the cheaper option, especially where the journey is not counted as part of working time.
These days company travel finances are stretched. I know of one oil company which has to move people from a US location to a South American city on a regular basis. There is no direct flight between the cities concerned. They can fly their people over a thousand miles in the wrong direction for a connection and have a journey time of twelve hours but the cost is the best part of $500 each way more in economy and almost double that in business than the fare through an airport on a more direct route with a cheaper carrier and a journey time of nineteen hours, eleven hours of which is spent on the ground at the intermediate airport. Even multi billion dollar oil companies are using the cheaper option, especially where the journey is not counted as part of working time.
I wouldn't be too confident about SAS rescheduling their MAN operations to facilitate connections for the benefit of afew passengers attracted by a single daily flight to IAH operated by a different airline. It is too easy on a forum such as this one to think within the mindset of 'friend of Manchester Airport'. Instead, we need to take a step back and think with the mindset of an SAS executive.
As for UA it will be interesting to see what they do. On the one hand a codeshare MAN-IAH would open a new spoke into their largest hub and with all the commercial risk borne by SIA. On the other hand they already choose not to codeshare on SIA's FRA-JFK A380 service (but do on the LH FRA-JFK service) so maybe there is a clue there.
Interestingly the IATA slot allocation conference for the Winter took place on 21-23 June, and on 24 June the UK voted for Brexit. Do we know when SIA requested the slots ? Anyway a lot has changed since 24 June and there's a lot more uncertain economic times to come, so like Mr A Tis I will feel more confident about this route when it is formally announced or put on sale.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kerry Eire
Age: 76
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly, and the same would apply to other *Alliance carriers like Swiss (ZRH), SN (BRU), LH Group (HAM/CGN/DUS) etc - I can't imagine any of them will be falling over themselves to fill a SIA service either when they have their own transatlantic capacity to fill first. Of course some of these flights and destinations will connect in one or both directions at MAN anyway, and passengers/corporate travel departments will be free to book these connections if they wish. Geographically this is one occasion where being located on the western fringe of Europe is an advantage to MAN in terms of potential feed to/from the rest of Europe.
As for UA it will be interesting to see what they do. On the one hand a codeshare MAN-IAH would open a new spoke into their largest hub and with all the commercial risk borne by SIA. On the other hand they already choose not to codeshare on SIA's FRA-JFK A380 service (but do on the LH FRA-JFK service) so maybe there is a clue there.
Interestingly the IATA slot allocation conference for the Winter took place on 21-23 June, and on 24 June the UK voted for Brexit. Do we know when SIA requested the slots ? Anyway a lot has changed since 24 June and there's a lot more uncertain economic times to come, so like Mr A Tis I will feel more confident about this route when it is formally announced or put on sale.
As for UA it will be interesting to see what they do. On the one hand a codeshare MAN-IAH would open a new spoke into their largest hub and with all the commercial risk borne by SIA. On the other hand they already choose not to codeshare on SIA's FRA-JFK A380 service (but do on the LH FRA-JFK service) so maybe there is a clue there.
Interestingly the IATA slot allocation conference for the Winter took place on 21-23 June, and on 24 June the UK voted for Brexit. Do we know when SIA requested the slots ? Anyway a lot has changed since 24 June and there's a lot more uncertain economic times to come, so like Mr A Tis I will feel more confident about this route when it is formally announced or put on sale.
The IAH service requires a stop somewhere, the logic for SIA using MAN I explained in post #5473