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Cityjet don't seem too upset over the rejection of their offer to Stobart. Ok, a few harsh words and a moan about wasted time and money but imagine if they were the main players in setting up 18 new routes and Stobart said thanks very much for your efforts -we'll take it from here. I think we'd be seeing threats of litigation at the very least.
So now that EF has suggested the existence of a plan B it seems likely that Stobart had thrown the 18 routes in as part of deal for a potential merger/takeover with/by Cityjet. Presumably, Cityjet were asked to consider how many of the 18 routes they felt they could operate.
We know as fact that Cityjet made an offer - set a deadline - and pulled out when the deadline passed without agreement. Now, there's been some negative fallout from what may well be a sound decision, and it's largely because what statements a beaming Glyn Jones releases to the media regarding 'deals almost done, new route announcements in the next month'. Don't get me wrong. I think Glyn Jones is a top man and SEN are lucky to have him. But I wonder how close to the bosom of the Stobart board he is when they pull the rug from under him like they do.
So now that EF has suggested the existence of a plan B it seems likely that Stobart had thrown the 18 routes in as part of deal for a potential merger/takeover with/by Cityjet. Presumably, Cityjet were asked to consider how many of the 18 routes they felt they could operate.
We know as fact that Cityjet made an offer - set a deadline - and pulled out when the deadline passed without agreement. Now, there's been some negative fallout from what may well be a sound decision, and it's largely because what statements a beaming Glyn Jones releases to the media regarding 'deals almost done, new route announcements in the next month'. Don't get me wrong. I think Glyn Jones is a top man and SEN are lucky to have him. But I wonder how close to the bosom of the Stobart board he is when they pull the rug from under him like they do.
Last edited by DC3 Dave; 9th Dec 2016 at 10:45.
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Fair point Expressflight.
I wonder if Mr Brady can suggest where Stobart can access available airframes? I suppose that there are plenty of written down Avro RJs and 146s sitting around.
What about Volotea's Boeing 717s which are being phased out as their 319s are delivered?
On the other hand some nice new leased C series or SSJ-100s might have a more appropriate capacity.
Whatever, I would have thought that at least some of their 18 routes will require jets, and I don't think flyBE's E-195s can operate fully loaded from SEN.
I wonder if Mr Brady can suggest where Stobart can access available airframes? I suppose that there are plenty of written down Avro RJs and 146s sitting around.
What about Volotea's Boeing 717s which are being phased out as their 319s are delivered?
On the other hand some nice new leased C series or SSJ-100s might have a more appropriate capacity.
Whatever, I would have thought that at least some of their 18 routes will require jets, and I don't think flyBE's E-195s can operate fully loaded from SEN.
DC3 Dave
I think that's probably as good a summary of the situation as any, as I see it from the outside.
Barling Magna
I would expect Stobart to carefully match aircraft type to the chosen routes and perhaps the ATR will be appropriate for some of them while others will definitely need jet equipment. I'm not sure RJs would be the best bet, nor SSJs for operational reasons. As far as I know the E-195 could be problematical in wet conditions at SEN so I wouldn't expect them to be used either.
They may have decided that 100-seaters will be more suitable than 150-seaters as the routes will have been chosen with that in mind (Cityjet RJ and SSJ). I doubt that C Series will be available within their timescale but it will be very interesting to see what is selected.
I think that's probably as good a summary of the situation as any, as I see it from the outside.
Barling Magna
I would expect Stobart to carefully match aircraft type to the chosen routes and perhaps the ATR will be appropriate for some of them while others will definitely need jet equipment. I'm not sure RJs would be the best bet, nor SSJs for operational reasons. As far as I know the E-195 could be problematical in wet conditions at SEN so I wouldn't expect them to be used either.
They may have decided that 100-seaters will be more suitable than 150-seaters as the routes will have been chosen with that in mind (Cityjet RJ and SSJ). I doubt that C Series will be available within their timescale but it will be very interesting to see what is selected.
Last edited by Expressflight; 9th Dec 2016 at 18:15. Reason: spelling
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former easyJet COO Warwick Brady has been acting in a consultancy role with Stobart Group
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For those interested, I'm reliably told the airport website is or will be undergoing a number of changes soon. Don't know how small or large they may be, however at the very least some updating is needed.
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I stumbled across a post in Italian which I now cannot find broadly translating as saying Cityjet were switching their Florence flights from City to Southend in 2017. It was also noted on here that Florence and Nantes were not bookable beyond March, so perhaps the post had some crediblity.
Assuming the post was true, and given that those routes are Cityjet's, I wonder whether 'Plan B' has some degree of deviation from 'Plan A' in terms of routes and whether that is the reason for the delay in going on sale?
Assuming the post was true, and given that those routes are Cityjet's, I wonder whether 'Plan B' has some degree of deviation from 'Plan A' in terms of routes and whether that is the reason for the delay in going on sale?
Posted on the LCY thread yesterday:
After the WX deal at SEN collapsed, FLR has now gone back on sale past March next year. Still no sign of NTE or ORY flights yet. Also AVN on sale for S17 commencing 19 May 2017.
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Greater Anglia are bringing out out their new timetable tomorrow, which looks the same as their existing timetable.
I know this subject has been discussed to death here but it has a direct consequence on Southend's passenger services. Today there are just 6 departures from the airport but 4 of them leave first thing leaving only 2 flights where it is viable to catch a train. While UK based passengers have the option to drive to the airport Johnny Foreigner living in say Lyon has no option but to hire a taxi or use another London airport
It also beggars the question why Easyjet with 3 departures and Flybe with 1 departure don't just put the departure time back by one hour when their fleet is under worked in the winter months to boast loads.
It's a crazy situation when an airport that claims to be London Airport can only offer public transport from London for just 33% of its passengers.
I know this subject has been discussed to death here but it has a direct consequence on Southend's passenger services. Today there are just 6 departures from the airport but 4 of them leave first thing leaving only 2 flights where it is viable to catch a train. While UK based passengers have the option to drive to the airport Johnny Foreigner living in say Lyon has no option but to hire a taxi or use another London airport
It also beggars the question why Easyjet with 3 departures and Flybe with 1 departure don't just put the departure time back by one hour when their fleet is under worked in the winter months to boast loads.
It's a crazy situation when an airport that claims to be London Airport can only offer public transport from London for just 33% of its passengers.
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Trains
I tend to agree. At least during the winter schedule change all early departures until 0800. Having said that i wonder how many passengers would use the trains. How much pressure was placed on the rail company by Stobart to operate earlier and later?
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AirportPlanner1 I too stumbled upon this Italian article. I imagine it was posted in anticipation of the move, which would have seen FLR transferred to SEN. However, as SWBKCB has highlighted my post from the LCY thread, I had a look on the WX website to see if any of the flights had gone back on sale from LCY and indeed FLR had.
The issue of rail services not starting in time for early flights is not confined to Southend; even the first wave out of Heathrow are too early for the first Heathrow Express trains. Furthermore anyone with experience of first trains of the day will be aware that they are the ones most likely to be delayed or cancelled. And that's just for a train from Liverpool Street, where few people actually live; you can't easily get to it from elsewhere in London as the Underground has not started by the time it departs, apart from just one line on two weekend mornings per week.
But yes, it would be interesting to know just how many departing air passengers per day at Southend actually arrive by train.
But yes, it would be interesting to know just how many departing air passengers per day at Southend actually arrive by train.
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The issue of rail services not starting in time for early flights is not confined to Southend; even the first wave out of Heathrow are too early for the first Heathrow Express trains
It's worth remembering that Heathrow is about 17 miles from central London while Southend airport is about 40 miles from central London. I know very few people live in Trafalgar Square, but this serves as a useful way to illustrate distance from London.
The number of people who live within a moderately priced taxi/minicab ride of Heathrow is much larger compared to Southend, so a taxi from home might well be considered as acceptable for a 6 am Heathrow flight, where it might not be accepted for a similiar flight from Southend.
That said, Southend airport needs to focus on providing flights to either destinations that are difficult to reach, cater to demand from Essex and east London or look for niches that are not filled by Stansted.. Trying to compete with Heathrow or Gatwick can only end in tears for Southend.
The number of people who live within a moderately priced taxi/minicab ride of Heathrow is much larger compared to Southend, so a taxi from home might well be considered as acceptable for a 6 am Heathrow flight, where it might not be accepted for a similiar flight from Southend.
That said, Southend airport needs to focus on providing flights to either destinations that are difficult to reach, cater to demand from Essex and east London or look for niches that are not filled by Stansted.. Trying to compete with Heathrow or Gatwick can only end in tears for Southend.
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The number of people who live within a moderately priced taxi/minicab ride of Heathrow is much larger compared to Southend, so a taxi from home might well be considered as acceptable for a 6 am Heathrow flight, where it might not be accepted for a similiar flight from Southend.
That said, Southend airport needs to focus on providing flights to either destinations that are difficult to reach, cater to demand from Essex and east London or look for niches that are not filled by Stansted.. Trying to compete with Heathrow or Gatwick can only end in tears for Southend.
That said, Southend airport needs to focus on providing flights to either destinations that are difficult to reach, cater to demand from Essex and east London or look for niches that are not filled by Stansted.. Trying to compete with Heathrow or Gatwick can only end in tears for Southend.
From traveline I was able to realise, and I took it, a London Transport bus at something like 4am to the airport in the morning.
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I guess the same applies then to London City and Stansted. Luton and Gatwick both have trains running through the night.
As for Southend just 1 extra train starting half an hour earlier and 1 extra train finishing half an hour later would make such a big difference.
As for Southend just 1 extra train starting half an hour earlier and 1 extra train finishing half an hour later would make such a big difference.
