SOUTHEND 5
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Outer London
Age: 43
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
01475 - are you implying through your comment that there was massive untapped demand for Groningen amongst the Essex and East London community? I would suggest that being the only route to London from Maribor (in fact the only route full stop?) marketing at that end would be pretty easy, and news if the route locally would be pretty big?
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern spain
Posts: 1,987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pesonally I cannot see Maribor been a starter, it has been tried before and did not last long plus with Ljubljana (Wizz, easy, BA) and Zagreb (BA and Monarch starting next April) not far away I would have thought that there would be that much demand. Also if there was potential Wizz would have started flights to Luton by now.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A comment from the Stobart Group Executive Director Richard Butcher talks about destinations being in Europe and Ireland. He could have just said Europe, but now we know the Irish market will probably be served again.
As for Maribor, wasn't it dropped originally because Adria had to spend money positioning the aircraft in to MBX and received some form of subsidy from local businesses in Slovenia? Also the flight times were not great, but with an average 70% load factor, I think it's one to look at again personally.
As for Maribor, wasn't it dropped originally because Adria had to spend money positioning the aircraft in to MBX and received some form of subsidy from local businesses in Slovenia? Also the flight times were not great, but with an average 70% load factor, I think it's one to look at again personally.
It will be interesting to see the types of destination that Cityjet choose, obviously with considerable input from Stobart. I would suggest it may be a mix of currently unserved/underserved secondary destinations (perhaps some recently vacated by other operators) plus some primary destinations with the intention of showing SEN's potential as a competitive LON terminus.
The latter is how I interpret this week's Bloomberg story which says that Stobart will "operate its own flights (for this read Cityjet) to demonstrate the viability of an expanded timetable to carriers frustrated by capacity curbs at the far bigger Heathrow and Gatwick".
In addition I think there will be flights to European sun destinations for which the capacity of the SU95 will be better suited than the A319/320s of easyJet, thus avoiding conflicts of interest there.
Talk of 18 destinations being served by a four aircraft fleet suggests low frequencies on some routes and these may be largely leisure/weekend break destinations. With the weakness of the Pound they make seek to capitalise on the current attractiveness of the UK to European visitors in this way.
The latter is how I interpret this week's Bloomberg story which says that Stobart will "operate its own flights (for this read Cityjet) to demonstrate the viability of an expanded timetable to carriers frustrated by capacity curbs at the far bigger Heathrow and Gatwick".
In addition I think there will be flights to European sun destinations for which the capacity of the SU95 will be better suited than the A319/320s of easyJet, thus avoiding conflicts of interest there.
Talk of 18 destinations being served by a four aircraft fleet suggests low frequencies on some routes and these may be largely leisure/weekend break destinations. With the weakness of the Pound they make seek to capitalise on the current attractiveness of the UK to European visitors in this way.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
June CAA Stats (at last!)
Flybe/Stobart Air:
Caen - 1217 (+68%)
Groningen - 1844 (+30%)
Rennes - 3234 (+27%)
EasyJet:
Alicante - 9060 (+1%)
Amsterdam - 15053 (-18%)
Barcelona - 4923 (-1%)
Faro - 12083 (+2%)
Ibiza - 3704 (-14%)
Jersey - 3496 (+12%)
Mahon - 2165 (-11%)
Malaga - 8282 (-3%)
Palma - 7321 (+6%)
Paris CDG - 4054 (n/a)
Venice - 4841 (-2%)
Month Total: 82,746 (-3%)
Caen - 1217 (+68%)
Groningen - 1844 (+30%)
Rennes - 3234 (+27%)
EasyJet:
Alicante - 9060 (+1%)
Amsterdam - 15053 (-18%)
Barcelona - 4923 (-1%)
Faro - 12083 (+2%)
Ibiza - 3704 (-14%)
Jersey - 3496 (+12%)
Mahon - 2165 (-11%)
Malaga - 8282 (-3%)
Palma - 7321 (+6%)
Paris CDG - 4054 (n/a)
Venice - 4841 (-2%)
Month Total: 82,746 (-3%)
The MAH percentage change seems to be a rare error on the part of the poster. The CAA stats show nil pax for SEN-MAH in June 2015 so I assume the flights started earlier this year than last. As far as AMS is concerned EZY reduce their daily frequency around that time of year so perhaps they reduced it earlier in 2016 than they did last year.
Overall EZY pax numbers seem very similar to those of June 2015.
Overall EZY pax numbers seem very similar to those of June 2015.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
01475 - are you implying through your comment that there was massive untapped demand for Groningen amongst the Essex and East London community? I would suggest that being the only route to London from Maribor (in fact the only route full stop?) marketing at that end would be pretty easy, and news if the route locally would be pretty big?
Maribor flights don't exist, either to Southend or indeed currently to anywhere at all. That makes it less of a "likely" choice. Might there be demand for flights to Maribor? Well maybe. There could also be demand for flights to Liepaja. Who knows.
But while Slovenia is lovely Maribor isn't in particular and the UK residents to whom CityJet have the best chance of marketing things to are far more likely to want to go to Ljubljana (in particular, for example, from STN with EasyJet). I'd suggest CityJet's recent history of starting routes and hoping they'll market themselves is bad. I'm convinced that an airline anyone knew existed would have made a success of Cambridge - Amsterdam. I mean, even Manston managed to sustain flights to Amsterdam!
I'm sure SEN will find it's niche, and maybe I'll be proved wrong and Maribor will be part of it. However if an airline was going to make a go of operating out of Maribor I'd suggest it might be more of an Adria or Wizz type of operator?
If I was going to select destinations to operate from Southend I'd aim for a mixture of places that don't have any other services (like Londonderry) and places that are really popular from everywhere (like Warsaw?). Would I be right? Who knows. I'm convinced SEN is an airport with prospects though, so I'm sure that in a few years time we'll have found out what the winning formula was (even if it's not Cityjet that find it).
Last edited by 01475; 28th Oct 2016 at 15:45.
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Siargao Island
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd suggest CityJet's recent history of starting routes and hoping they'll market themselves is bad. I'm convinced that an airline anyone knew existed would have made a success of Cambridge - Amsterdam. I mean, even Manston managed to sustain flights to Amsterdam!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reading your post would give a very different impression of Suckling's history at Cambridge to what happened. Their flights from Cambridge clearly worked for a very long time as nobody operates services that they couldn't make work for over a decade (until a change of ownership and an unfortunately timed attempted expansion).
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Outer London
Age: 43
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
01475 - you're missing the point about my reference to Groningen. Yes it already exists, but three years ago it hadn't started and the same point about demand from Essex could have been made at the time. It is the inbound demand for Maribor that will be key, just as it was for Groningen.
Actually as airports Groningen and Maribor aren't dissimilar, on some days SEN is Groningen's only flight. The distance from Groningen to Bremen or Amsterdam airports is also similar as from Maribor to Zagreb or Ljubljana.
As for Wizz, the market exists but is too small for them. Adria proved that, but the need to position an aircraft in especially to operate it is a problem for them. A SSJ operated from SEN doesn't have that issue and is about the right size.
Marketing isn't such an issue in somewhere like Maribor where you are the only option. Word would also soon get round the Slovenian community living in this country. For example, ever seen an advert for Blue Air? Even Wizz don't ever seem to advertise.
Actually as airports Groningen and Maribor aren't dissimilar, on some days SEN is Groningen's only flight. The distance from Groningen to Bremen or Amsterdam airports is also similar as from Maribor to Zagreb or Ljubljana.
As for Wizz, the market exists but is too small for them. Adria proved that, but the need to position an aircraft in especially to operate it is a problem for them. A SSJ operated from SEN doesn't have that issue and is about the right size.
Marketing isn't such an issue in somewhere like Maribor where you are the only option. Word would also soon get round the Slovenian community living in this country. For example, ever seen an advert for Blue Air? Even Wizz don't ever seem to advertise.
I've seen poster advertisements for Blue Air.... in a shop specialising in food imported from Eastern Europe. Advertising of any product should be targetted to the likely customer base: an ad for Wizz in the middle of Coronation Street would be extremely expensive and gain relatively few additional customers.
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually as airports Groningen and Maribor aren't dissimilar, on some days SEN is Groningen's only flight.
I am very curious what the announcement of CityJet means for the Groningen and Caen flights.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Local media in Groningen seem to think there could be the potential to connect onwards from SEN on the CityJet network. It would not surprise me if when the Flybe franchise runs out in 2019, they all get transferred to a CityJet franchise.
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AMS quicker? 2h10 train journey with the earliest possible arrival at AMS at 08:00. At least 2 hours in advance present, preferably even earlier due to the unreliable train journey, traffic jams and long queues at the security. Do you call that quick?
Like Southend, 45 minutes in advance present at GRQ is more than sufficient. That saves you a lot of time! A transfer at SEN is interesting for destinations like Dublin, Edinburgh and Manchester.
Like Southend, 45 minutes in advance present at GRQ is more than sufficient. That saves you a lot of time! A transfer at SEN is interesting for destinations like Dublin, Edinburgh and Manchester.