LUTON -8
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Double back tracking for take offs
I was just watching the Luton video detailing the expansion of the airport, and ended up watching one or two other videos which YouTube suggests that are similar to what you have just watched.
I ended up watching some video from a spotter who was filming the morning rush at the airport... Anyway in this video I noticed that on the take offs several examples of where two aircraft were on the runway at once for take off.
For example, the first aircraft would sent to back track down the runway and to turn around, then hold, and then all of a sudden the aircraft from behind would then be sent on to the runway and either take off from taxiway turning on to the runway or back track down a little way and turn around from there and take off. So in-effect the second aircraft is airbourne first and then the first aircraft on to the runway takes off.
I have never seen this happen before, but is quite a novel way of maximising runway usage at peak times. Is this common practise now?
(To be fair though I haven't flown out from the airport in the morning rush in over 7-8 months and usually on late morning or afternoon flights.)
I ended up watching some video from a spotter who was filming the morning rush at the airport... Anyway in this video I noticed that on the take offs several examples of where two aircraft were on the runway at once for take off.
For example, the first aircraft would sent to back track down the runway and to turn around, then hold, and then all of a sudden the aircraft from behind would then be sent on to the runway and either take off from taxiway turning on to the runway or back track down a little way and turn around from there and take off. So in-effect the second aircraft is airbourne first and then the first aircraft on to the runway takes off.
I have never seen this happen before, but is quite a novel way of maximising runway usage at peak times. Is this common practise now?
(To be fair though I haven't flown out from the airport in the morning rush in over 7-8 months and usually on late morning or afternoon flights.)
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Just watched the video dated 30/01/15 which was taken on a cold frosty morning. Instead of the de-icer lorry visiting the stands each easyjet aircraft taxied to the south stands where two de-icer trucks were waiting to blast the aircraft. It seemed a very efficient way to deice aircraft in bulk.
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Backtracking
One of LTN's few redeeming features was the sensible approach to runway utilisation. Depending on the time of day you could take on to take full length but the time you line up another plane had taken off and you had less time to wait at the threshold. I was also aware whilst intersection able of other aircraft backtracking while we took off. A good way of saving time particularly when some aircraft needed full length due performance or only had full length figures for their calculations (or so I was told). Aircraft will notify ATC on first contact if they are intersection able or not and I assume some coordination goes into maximising runway occupancy. It was very rare during morning Wizzair surge arrival bank but during day times it was quite common.
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Of course when the development work is finished 26 and 08 will have additional taxiways onto the runway making a total of 5 although Taxiway Charlie is rarely used these days plus new taxiway Foxtrot which will run parallel to Taxiway Delta.
When finished I wonder how many aircraft will still require a backtrack?
When finished I wonder how many aircraft will still require a backtrack?
The de-ice truck still visits the stand for first wave departures before passengers have boarded to pre de-ice the aircraft if conditions allow eg frost on wings. Otherwise, if it's say snow or freezing fog it's a taxi to the south stands. It is quite efficient. This is for airlines that use IDS, not sure what swissport do.
ATC have been back tracking one aircraft for the full length whilst another departs from the intersection for a few years now. I believe they can only do it during daylight.
ATC have been back tracking one aircraft for the full length whilst another departs from the intersection for a few years now. I believe they can only do it during daylight.
You are correct, it can only be done in daylight.
The other thing that made it more beneficial was the reduction in departure separation. On certain routes (BPK) departures following CPT and OLY departures the separation can be reduced to 1 minute (or 3 miles) instead of 2 minutes (or 5 miles). This then increases the departure rate.
The other thing that made it more beneficial was the reduction in departure separation. On certain routes (BPK) departures following CPT and OLY departures the separation can be reduced to 1 minute (or 3 miles) instead of 2 minutes (or 5 miles). This then increases the departure rate.
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@gilesdavies quotes "
I have never seen this happen before, but is quite a novel way of maximising runway usage at peak times".
Be assured that the scenario of one aircraft back tracking to a turning circle and another aircraft entering the runway from a taxiway for immediate departure is 'very typical' now at Luton.
I see this scenario daily (from my lounge) but separation exists in that the aircraft at the circle is not allowed to depart until the other aircraft is well ahead!
As I have stated in previous threads I have seen Boeing 777's and A300's departing from taxiway intersections of Luton's runway which in effect means they do not need full length runway use to gain rotation.
But equally I have witnessed two aircraft too date literally rotating feet from the turning circles!
I have never seen this happen before, but is quite a novel way of maximising runway usage at peak times".
Be assured that the scenario of one aircraft back tracking to a turning circle and another aircraft entering the runway from a taxiway for immediate departure is 'very typical' now at Luton.
I see this scenario daily (from my lounge) but separation exists in that the aircraft at the circle is not allowed to depart until the other aircraft is well ahead!
As I have stated in previous threads I have seen Boeing 777's and A300's departing from taxiway intersections of Luton's runway which in effect means they do not need full length runway use to gain rotation.
But equally I have witnessed two aircraft too date literally rotating feet from the turning circles!
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Great feedback guys, thanks!
I have been on many flights taking off from the intersection, but just not seen the two aircraft on the active runway at once...
I wasn't in anyway question the safety aspect, but just thought it was rather novel and a brilliant way of utilising the current facilities. Just not seen this been done in person before.
I have been on many flights taking off from the intersection, but just not seen the two aircraft on the active runway at once...
I wasn't in anyway question the safety aspect, but just thought it was rather novel and a brilliant way of utilising the current facilities. Just not seen this been done in person before.
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Giles, it has been common practice at LTN for quite some time, but is not a "norm". LTN as particularly smart and flexible ATC, in my opinion. The only scenario it is used, though, is where the first needs full length or isn't quite read, the second has informed TWR that they only need intersection and are ready, and there is a big enough gap in the arrivals for both departures. Even then, some controllers won't do it unless the second aircraft (departing first) is tight on a slot.
I't's a very good system, and as long as neither pilot wastes time, the first entering/second departing won't even have to wait to advance the thrust levers after turning around.
I't's a very good system, and as long as neither pilot wastes time, the first entering/second departing won't even have to wait to advance the thrust levers after turning around.
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Write me in as another who has seen that happen regularly.
One thing I do not understand is why not run the taxiway right to the end of each end of the runway? Is there a specific reason not to? Will it save that much money? Intrigued.
One thing I do not understand is why not run the taxiway right to the end of each end of the runway? Is there a specific reason not to? Will it save that much money? Intrigued.
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With La Compagnie starting services in just over a month, has there been conformation of how they'll use facilities at Luton - will they use the main terminal and have any dedicated facilities (private lounge)?
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When we planned the current parallel taxiway (Alpha) we did look at going to the end but it would have taken a tremendous amount of infill – somebody did work out how much and we would have needed virtually every dumper truck in southern UK – and it was just ‘too difficult’. Plus the airport didn’t (doesn’t ?) own the land to keep the taxiway truly parallel and it would have had to cut in closer to the runway. OK for CAT I ops but the CAT II/III holds would have ended up where they are now. So for expedition we plugged the taxiway in where it is now. We did consult the airlines and their view was if you cannot go to the end don’t plug it in too close because steering geometry issues. All this was a long time ago.
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Backtracking
Whether or not an aircraft can depart from the intersection does indeed depend on all sorts of things: take-off weight, runway state (dry/wet and thus stopping distance), temperature, company policy, Captain's preference, etc etc. Once the factors have been looked up (originally in charts, now probably done by an iPad 
), intersection-able or full-length will be revealed. This is all assuming that the operating company has the figures for the airport in question. Some don't.
There will always be a mix of some that can, some that can't. Whilst intersection take-offs are expeditious and good for runway utilisation, there's also the old adage that there's nuffin' as useless as runway behind you...
), intersection-able or full-length will be revealed. This is all assuming that the operating company has the figures for the airport in question. Some don't. There will always be a mix of some that can, some that can't. Whilst intersection take-offs are expeditious and good for runway utilisation, there's also the old adage that there's nuffin' as useless as runway behind you...
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There was loads of soil going spare on the A505/M1 junction 10upgrade. New hills have been created and tons of the stuff have been transported off site to an adjacent field across a road.
The roundabout at 10A which clogged up the traffic heading for the airport has now been removed and with a 58 hour closure this weekend the westbound carriageway will be finished off and rerouted across the remains of the old roundabout.
The roundabout at 10A which clogged up the traffic heading for the airport has now been removed and with a 58 hour closure this weekend the westbound carriageway will be finished off and rerouted across the remains of the old roundabout.