British Airways
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the Muscat extension dates back years - back to when Oman Airways flew F-27's and leased small 737's
To get there you normally flew Gulf and changed
BA offered a non change 1 stop
Oman Airways expanded and put in a nonstop UK flight
To get there you normally flew Gulf and changed
BA offered a non change 1 stop
Oman Airways expanded and put in a nonstop UK flight
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hither and Thither
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last edited by Red Four; 7th Feb 2014 at 20:18.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: London Under EGLL(LHR) 27R ILS
Age: 31
Posts: 500
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am wondering is G-STBL the last BA 77W to be ordered? I've seen no mention or further orders/options for this type. That aircraft has turned the LHR-SIN-SYD around from being a non-profit route to quite an asset to the airline.
I've flown on it to/from New York and it's an amazing product.
I suspect the A350/787-9*1000 is where BA's money is on for replacing 747's/772s.
I've flown on it to/from New York and it's an amazing product.
I suspect the A350/787-9*1000 is where BA's money is on for replacing 747's/772s.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1,438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: London Under EGLL(LHR) 27R ILS
Age: 31
Posts: 500
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After G-STBL there's no more orders, that's my issue. A380 wise, G-XLEE and G-XLEF are being delivered this year, EG to EL are 2015-2016.
The last of the 787-800s are being delivered by June and no concrete date for the 900srs. I know the 767s have to be off the North Atlantic very soon, end of the year?
I suspect the 787-9 will be flown on a few of the 777 routes, but surely some more 77Ws could help? That's 4 787s in, 3 77Ws in, 2 A380s in, 6 767s out and 6 747s out, make that 7 at the moment but I believe one is staying to cover for G-BNLL that has been written off.
The last of the 787-800s are being delivered by June and no concrete date for the 900srs. I know the 767s have to be off the North Atlantic very soon, end of the year?
I suspect the 787-9 will be flown on a few of the 777 routes, but surely some more 77Ws could help? That's 4 787s in, 3 77Ws in, 2 A380s in, 6 767s out and 6 747s out, make that 7 at the moment but I believe one is staying to cover for G-BNLL that has been written off.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
B77Ws are a stop gap, an economic subfleet but not a generational shift like the B787 and the A350. The long haul B767s are not all being retired in 2014 as far as I know. btw in terms of Sydney, "much improved" is not the same as "profitable enough use of asset". G-STBL is indeed the last one.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: London Under EGLL(LHR) 27R ILS
Age: 31
Posts: 500
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Skipness the 767s have to be off the North Atlantic by 2015 due to requiring an avionics upgrade. They'll continue to serve Africa/India etc
Wasn't the B77Ws a special deal for British Airways because of the 787 delays? Quite a few of them are not even owned by BA itself, and are leased. I don't know who by though.
Quite a few factors I've heard regarding the Sydney route, which was almost pulled but BA moved the 77W onto it (Good Cargo Capacity) and better economics than the 747 for that distance. Also it was changed to Mixed Fleet CC.
I've heard a rumour floating about that the 787 may operate Sydney for BA, note there's more cargo capacity with the A380 being deployed on the 16 hour leg of the routing, so removing the 77W wouldn't affect this.
Wasn't the B77Ws a special deal for British Airways because of the 787 delays? Quite a few of them are not even owned by BA itself, and are leased. I don't know who by though.
Quite a few factors I've heard regarding the Sydney route, which was almost pulled but BA moved the 77W onto it (Good Cargo Capacity) and better economics than the 747 for that distance. Also it was changed to Mixed Fleet CC.
I've heard a rumour floating about that the 787 may operate Sydney for BA, note there's more cargo capacity with the A380 being deployed on the 16 hour leg of the routing, so removing the 77W wouldn't affect this.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wasn't the B77Ws a special deal for British Airways because of the 787 delays? Quite a few of them are not even owned by BA itself, and are leased. I don't know who by though.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Skipness the 767s have to be off the North Atlantic by 2015 due to requiring an avionics upgrade.
Two of the current fleet are B777-36Ns, G-STBB/E, however I think all of them are leased, as a result of the B787 delays. There are four more B787-8s coming this year then it's next September for the B787-9.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LV
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FAA ADS-B Out needed for 2015 for US ops plus (needs new cockpit system displays specific to 767)
latest TCAS v7.1
Requires new transponder standard (DO-260B)
Requires update to GPS sensor and update of AC 90-114
latest TCAS v7.1
Requires new transponder standard (DO-260B)
Requires update to GPS sensor and update of AC 90-114
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stockport
Age: 84
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quite a few factors I've heard regarding the Sydney route, which was almost pulled but BA moved the 77W onto it (Good Cargo Capacity) and better economics than the 747 for that distance. Also it was changed to Mixed Fleet CC.
Definitely negative into WLG's short runway as a 777-300 would have to take off empty to get back to SYD. Not to mention fog,winds etc. which make it an operationally hassled place to fly.
Trans-Tasman is already well to over-served and yields are low. Add on sectors for EK etc rely largely on local traffic rights,code-shares and cargo, and it's unlikely BA could get a 'higher than SYD' yield for LON/NZ terminating traffic when the market is already covered with just 1 stop ex Europe. Operating on to SYD when there's little premium over LHR/SIN yields is bad enough without further complicating things. You're right though - it is a waste of expensive machinery and doubtless one of the factors in BA and QF's retreat from the market.
In general terms, tag on services seldom cover additional costs and if the onward destination can't sustain a dedicated aircraft, it's better just to interline or concentrate on point to point. If the layover destination isn't full, then it's probably better to pull out.
Trans-Tasman is already well to over-served and yields are low. Add on sectors for EK etc rely largely on local traffic rights,code-shares and cargo, and it's unlikely BA could get a 'higher than SYD' yield for LON/NZ terminating traffic when the market is already covered with just 1 stop ex Europe. Operating on to SYD when there's little premium over LHR/SIN yields is bad enough without further complicating things. You're right though - it is a waste of expensive machinery and doubtless one of the factors in BA and QF's retreat from the market.
In general terms, tag on services seldom cover additional costs and if the onward destination can't sustain a dedicated aircraft, it's better just to interline or concentrate on point to point. If the layover destination isn't full, then it's probably better to pull out.
Dairyground
That is just about time for a round trip to Wellington, New Zealand. Would the extra leag have a positive or negative effect on the economics of the Sydney route?
Last edited by wiggy; 20th Feb 2014 at 10:35.
Some years back it was strongly rumoured that the BA 747's that sit in Jo'burg all day would operate across to Oz in conjunction with Qantas.
It seems that the idea did not get off the ground, so to speak, due to Qantas not happy about dividing up the spoils!
It seems to be quite a feasible route to get to Australia to me.
It seems that the idea did not get off the ground, so to speak, due to Qantas not happy about dividing up the spoils!
It seems to be quite a feasible route to get to Australia to me.
Paxing All Over The World
The JNB - OZ route is fairly strong - but mainly to SYD. Qantas left the JNB-PER to SAA with a code share and that has one A340-300 (I think) per day. Mostly, folks go to SYD and then spread out. I guess there are options to go to SIN (or neighbouring) and then down to OZ if that suits. As it happens, I'm researching JNB-PER and the options (for what I want) are not good.
In the past, BA had used their 747s to go on down to DUR or CPT after a suitable 'bounce' at JNB. Then the machine returned to JNB in time for the main haul north. However, they then bought Comair and that did the trick.
Many of the european carriers have looked at Tag-ons from JNB and daylight returns. In the end, the greatest majority opt to leave the machine parked up for the day on a remote stand. But the main carriers all love the route. Personally, I've enjoyed daylights in both directions very much.
In the past, BA had used their 747s to go on down to DUR or CPT after a suitable 'bounce' at JNB. Then the machine returned to JNB in time for the main haul north. However, they then bought Comair and that did the trick.
Many of the european carriers have looked at Tag-ons from JNB and daylight returns. In the end, the greatest majority opt to leave the machine parked up for the day on a remote stand. But the main carriers all love the route. Personally, I've enjoyed daylights in both directions very much.