British Airways

[msbbarratt]

BA, London City, Bombardier CS100

Seems the CS100 has finished its certification in/out of London City.

Apparently it has the legs to get from there to JFK direct (without needing a stop over soon after take-off), carrying 40 passengers in a business class configuration.

Anyone reckon BA will be tempted? It's a premium route, and shaving off the time needed for the fuel stop would be an obvious upgrade.

[Apologies if this has been discussed somewhere else in these many pages...].

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by msbbarratt

Apparently it has the legs to get from there to JFK direct (without needing a stop over soon after take-off), carrying 40 passengers in a business class configuration.

I'd be interested to see those figures.

[crewmeal]

Anyone reckon BA will be tempted? It's a premium route, and shaving off the time needed for the fuel stop would be an obvious upgrade.

I thought one of the reasons to call in at SNN was to clear immigration. Lose that and my guess is you'll lose customers.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by crewmeal

I thought one of the reasons to call in at SNN was to clear immigration.

That's what they call making a virtue of necessity.

If BA could eliminate the fuel stop, they would do it tomorrow. That's why the CSeries numbers are potentially interesting.

[wiggy]

Seems the CS100 has finished its certification in/out of London City.

Anyone reckon BA will be tempted? It's a premium route, and shaving off the time needed for the fuel stop would be an obvious upgrade.

Well placed sources elsewhere are saying they have had a look and for all sorts of reasons which I won't go onto here have said "No",

....................that probably means an order will be placed by IAG next week....

[Tagron]

Apparently it has the legs to get from there to JFK direct (without needing a stop over soon after take-off), carrying 40 passengers in a business class configuration

One would need to ask what cruise headwinds have been assumed in making this claim.

[ELondonPax]

The Cseries aircraft that did the test flights at LCY last week flew (direct) out of LCY over to JFK. The press release said it carried "a representative load", but I haven't seen that quantified into a real number.

[HZ123]

I believe that the Immigration clearance at Shannon has ceased? Is that not one of the reasons for withdrawing one of the aircraft ? Maybe the route is not so popular, nor the price!

[davidjohnson6]

The impact of Brexit on Canary Wharf and the bankers who work there, and the willingness of travel managers at large banks to commit to purchasing X seats per year long term may well be going through the minds of BA management.

[msbbarratt]

Well, I think that it would definitely pep up the LCY JFK offering. Apparently Bombardier have done a good job making the aircraft "comfortable" (quiet? higher cabin pressure?), so there are additional benefits as well as losing the fuel stop.

I'm not convinced BA are necessarily in the right frame of mind to appreciate the demand for a premium service - they seem to be concentrating on trying to get away with downgrading whilst hoping no one notices. But there's always a market somewhere or other for the very best of service. You'd think that if JFK/LCY was operated to the highest standards (the airborne equivalent of the luxury cruise, like Concorde was perceived to be) then there'd be plenty of American tourists who'd fill the seats even if the business persons didn't.

How well are Etihad doing with "The Residence" these days? I vaguely recall commentry about them being the most profitable 'seats' in the air... I've also read articles about North Americans flying Emirates to Europe to avoid AA, UA, etc. BA certainly don't want to end up being looked at as worse than flying via Dubai, no matter how cheap.

If I had the money to go Residence via the UAE I would be sorely tempted. One wonders at what point does the extra hours in the sky stop being a bore and just becomes an enjoyable self indulgence over an extended period of time. Something to be enjoyed if one is not in any particular hurry.

[msbbarratt]

Originally Posted by ELondonPax

The Cseries aircraft that did the test flights at LCY last week flew (direct) out of LCY over to JFK. The press release said it carried "a representative load", but I haven't seen that quantified into a real number.

Leeham News (in the bit just outside their paywall:https://leehamnews.com/2017/03/27/cs...certification/) says that it was loaded up to represent 40 people in a business class config.

[davidjohnson6]

If you have the money to pay for 'The Residence' then you presumably have a jolly nice home or can afford to go out somewhere that others consider very special.

Having a pilot's view and control of a flight is very enjoyable, but the other things (eg entertainment systems, wine, food, massage,etc) all seem to be aimed at disguising the fact that for most people being in an aluminium tube for more than a few hours at 37,000 ft is actually a bit dull

Quite why a non spotter would fly from the US to Europe via the UAE is beyond me

[msbbarratt]

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6

Having a pilot's view and control of a flight is very enjoyable, but the other things (eg entertainment systems, wine, food, massage,etc) all seem to be aimed at disguising the fact that for most people being in an aluminium tube for more than a few hours at 37,000 ft is actually a bit dull

But it's such a refined, extravagant way of being 'bored', that it has a kind of weird appeal all off its own. I'm willing to give it a go and be waited on hand and foot relentlessly for 18+hrs if anyone's prepared to fund me in return for a review...

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6

Quite why a non spotter would fly from the US to Europe via the UAE is beyond me

I can't find the article now, but (from memory) the reasons given by the family were related to service standard and value for money, and disgruntlement with previous experiences of the low rent, race-to-the-bottom offerings from AA / UA. It wasn't the first time they flown to Europe with that routing either.

Unusual indeed, but the fact that it's happening at all ought to act a red warning flag for BA (it's probably too late for AA / UA).

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by HZ123

I believe that the Immigration clearance at Shannon has ceased? Is that not one of the reasons for withdrawing one of the aircraft ? Maybe the route is not so popular, nor the price!

I understood that it was removed for the afternoon flight (past tense because that has now ceased, and possibly the reason for that) because in a change of operating hours the US immigration facility at Shannon was closed for the day by mid afternoon.

I also understood at the time that this was caused by US carriers covertly lobbying the relevant government agency in Washington for this to be done as they had nothing to compete with this service. Most US-based operators (it does a lot of charters/biz jets who are making fuel stops, in addition to scheduled operations) have typically passed through earlier in the day.

[mik3bravo]

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6

The impact of Brexit on Canary Wharf and the bankers who work there, and the willingness of travel managers at large banks to commit to purchasing X seats per year long term may well be going through the minds of BA management.

Very true. Our place has taken decision to do exactly as you've described. We spend about £850k annually on BA seats but that's now changing.
I know a certain major bank where CEO refuses to fly 1st or Business and requires all staff to follow.

[Andy_S]

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6

.....the other things (eg entertainment systems, wine, food, massage,etc) all seem to be aimed at disguising the fact that for most people being in an aluminium tube for more than a few hours at 37,000 ft is actually a bit dull. Quite why a non spotter would fly from the US to Europe via the UAE is beyond me

Spot on IMO. I suppose there will always be a small number of people who, for peculiar reasons of their own, are happy to fly odd and unnecessarily long routings, but for all the breathless prose spouted about premium quality air travel it’s never going to be as comfortable as your own chair in your own front room. I try and be as positive as possible about long haul travel, but I wouldn’t seek to prolong it unnecessarily even at the front of the aircraft. If I had that much money I think I would choose the best possible class of travel on a direct flight, get the journey over and done with, and book myself into a good quality hotel at the other end.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by msbbarratt

Well, I think that it would definitely pep up the LCY JFK offering. Apparently Bombardier have done a good job making the aircraft "comfortable" (quiet? higher cabin pressure?), so there are additional benefits as well as losing the fuel stop.

I haven't seen any references from Bombardier that mention a higher cabin pressure, so I'd be surprised if that's the case.

One factor that may be swaying BA against the CSeries is the fact that its cabin is 17" narrower than the Airbus.

As for losing the fuel stop, I've yet to see the field performance and payload-range numbers showing that would be possible,

[WHBM]

I am aware that the initial LCY-JFK operation, and the A318 acquisition, was "bankrolled" by a well-known international bank based in the London (and who had developed a substantial operation in New York) who committed to a proportion (20% ?) of the overall seats. Presumably that was a fixed duration and came up for reconsideration. Notably said bank is under instruction from the regulators to reduce their exposure to international trading, and the Chief Executive has indeed changed to one less minded to do so than a prominent predecessor.

The A318s are seemingly only of residual value now, there have been no secondhand transactions and some have actually been scrapped after just a few years of service. I wonder how BA is accounting for them in their audited books.

[Vokes55]

LGW-MRU increased to 5x weekly for Winter 17/18. Lima is dropped

[AvGeek1]

Originally Posted by Vokes55

LGW-MRU increased to 5x weekly for Winter 17/18. Lima is dropped

Wow that was quick