British Airways
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If it needs wheels, its obviously not hand baggage, so the owner should be sent back to pay the rate for checked baggage. Similarly for anything that won't fit into the guage.
Where is Revenue Management when you need it?
Where is Revenue Management when you need it?
Paxing All Over The World
Across (nigh on) 52 years of paxing, I have seen the old, informal BOAC style but it worked because everyone behaved in a formal (i.e. polite!) manner.
I have seen boarding by :
We have discussed in PPRuNe before the very plausible reasons why ground staff are increasingly reluctant to enforce the rules. It will be interesting to discover what new instructions/training they are giving - especially at the outstations.
My next on BA is 3rd Dec Short haul, so I escape the implementation of this and look forward to reading the horror stories and seeing how quickly the mgmt apologise.
Lastly, have they tested this idea in the countries that don't do queueing? Italy?
I have seen boarding by :
- Row numbers
- Cabin sections
- Window/Middle/Aisle
- Front to back row
- Back to front row
- Single door for the whole 747 Economy, one door for C and F
- First Come First Served
- First Come by First Check In
- Priority of all and any variation the marketing kids can imagine
- Auto gates
- The bus-rush described above
We have discussed in PPRuNe before the very plausible reasons why ground staff are increasingly reluctant to enforce the rules. It will be interesting to discover what new instructions/training they are giving - especially at the outstations.
My next on BA is 3rd Dec Short haul, so I escape the implementation of this and look forward to reading the horror stories and seeing how quickly the mgmt apologise.
Lastly, have they tested this idea in the countries that don't do queueing? Italy?
Join Date: Mar 2004
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There is another option open to BA, which is only to sell a certain number of hand-baggage-only fares on each flight on the likelihood that those customers are far more likely to take up space in overhead lockers than those with a baggage allowance included in their fare. I doubt they will, as they may see this as making them uncompetitive on price with easyJet & others. A commercial problem therefore becomes an operational problem.
After the year they've had, with the bashing over the M+S BOB product, the IT failure and the whole hue and cry about the brand being devalued, I am surprised someone has taken the decision to press ahead with this. It is a risk that I can't see (as a customer) they need to take right at this time. Get another thing like this wrong with adverse publicity and it could be the straw that breaks the camel's, or rather CEO's, back.
Come to think of it, I suspect there may be several thousand people at LHR and LGW who will go out of their way to ensure it doesn't work in the fervent hope that such an outcome would prevail swiftly afterwards. AC can't afford another screw-up on his watch, and I would guess many of his employees think the same, although viewing it from entirely opposing angles.
After the year they've had, with the bashing over the M+S BOB product, the IT failure and the whole hue and cry about the brand being devalued, I am surprised someone has taken the decision to press ahead with this. It is a risk that I can't see (as a customer) they need to take right at this time. Get another thing like this wrong with adverse publicity and it could be the straw that breaks the camel's, or rather CEO's, back.
Come to think of it, I suspect there may be several thousand people at LHR and LGW who will go out of their way to ensure it doesn't work in the fervent hope that such an outcome would prevail swiftly afterwards. AC can't afford another screw-up on his watch, and I would guess many of his employees think the same, although viewing it from entirely opposing angles.
Paxing All Over The World
I agree Albert Hall. This was something that did not really need to be fixed right now with. Yes it did need to be fixed but could have waited. A failiure of this will be added to their already long list of 2017 and a success will pass almost unnoticed.
In the main part, I suggest, pax have become innured to the current process. Over the last 20+ years of moving to too much hand luggage, folks know how they handle it. It might not work well - but it works. So change is a greater risk for them at the moment.
In the main part, I suggest, pax have become innured to the current process. Over the last 20+ years of moving to too much hand luggage, folks know how they handle it. It might not work well - but it works. So change is a greater risk for them at the moment.
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Albert Hall - As a regular BA traveller with status, it has got annoying that the current procedure isnt enforced. Yes, the level of cabin bags does need to be addressed, but I think I would rather they went the other way - and effectively charge for hand baggage.
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The only was the hand luggage iisue will ever be solved is to take it off the airlines and hand it over to the jobsworths in security who will check it down to 1mm size and 1gm weight
And shoot you if you create..............
And shoot you if you create..............
Hold baggage is a substantial cost to airlines, the expense of repatriating mishandled bags, which arise for a number of reasons but most commonly due to not having enough staff on duty, is very substantial. Likewise where handling is outsourced (most of BA now) the charges made include what works out to be a charge per bag. Pax moaning about lengthy delays waiting for bags to be delivered is also eliminated. So encouraging people to carry their own goes right along with Alex Cruz's "think of a way to save money every day". Extra time at security is a cost to the airport, not reflected in their charges, and the additional time pax now wait due to screening delays is completely irrelevant to the "save money" brigade.
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If the handling is outsourced, wouldn't it be more cost effective to take the handling in-house? Not for all, but certainly for LHR/LGW where the volume is greatest it should have been mentioned by 'some' level of management.
A more expensive outlay for equipment/training, but surely long term would deliver much better value. They could take inspiration from Jet2, who do self handing at some based. EMA for example only has 7 based units. If they can make it work with a smaller operation, surely BA could at least consider it for their largest?
A more expensive outlay for equipment/training, but surely long term would deliver much better value. They could take inspiration from Jet2, who do self handing at some based. EMA for example only has 7 based units. If they can make it work with a smaller operation, surely BA could at least consider it for their largest?
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Only underwing is outsourced at Gatters, overwing is still BA staff.
Must be painful for ex BA staff working for GGS to be doing the same job for less money and benefits after being kicked over to Swissport as unwanted. If anyone still doesn't get why Corbyn is making progress, it's doing this to people.
Must be painful for ex BA staff working for GGS to be doing the same job for less money and benefits after being kicked over to Swissport as unwanted. If anyone still doesn't get why Corbyn is making progress, it's doing this to people.
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Skipness, you and I are normally on the same page but not on this issue. Having had very close dealings with BA Gatwick in the 1990s, they were lovely people but grossly inefficient as a handling agent. Their handling quotes to us were sometimes three times as much as a third party handler e.g. Gatwick Handling (and believe me, BA wanted our business). Any attempts by management to improve the efficiency of the operation were thwarted by the unions. What subsequently happened, they brought on themselves.
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That's a very fair point but unions are the reason that they were paid a good wage, perhaps the TFL equivalent of aviation, well remunerated for the job they did. I don't think a train driver has a skill set worth £50K but they have strong unions. Smashing the unions elsewhere has huge benefits for the consumer, but as ever, I think we go to far. At some point, telling someone they now need to do the same job for less money and fewer benefits is soul destroying. Clearly BA need to compete against (self handling!) DY/D8/DI and EZY but ts&cs in ground handling are appalling with staff turnover at horrendous levels. Service levels plummet as motivated people leave for better opportunities elsewhere.
My hope is that with LS and DY now bringing handling in house and BA with arms length handling now, stability will return and people will paid a better rate. I cannot rejoice in those less fortunate than I having their wages cut again and again all for the benefit of the (middle class) consumer. At some point, it feels immoral.
My hope is that with LS and DY now bringing handling in house and BA with arms length handling now, stability will return and people will paid a better rate. I cannot rejoice in those less fortunate than I having their wages cut again and again all for the benefit of the (middle class) consumer. At some point, it feels immoral.
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I agree with a lot of your points but in my opinion, in the 1990s, it wasn't that the BA staff needed to be paid less, it was that they needed to be more productive. When you have a dispatcher only handling on average three flights a shift you know that there are problems.
Re the boarding problem, the Royal Navy boarded boats by seniority, that is the senior officers boarded last but were first off thus having a shorter and undoubtedly more pleasant time in the boat. Senior officers are the First-class passengers, the economy class passengers being the Junior Ratings. As for hand luggage, ensure that the hand luggage is of the dimensions that will fit into the space allocated for each passenger and stop the crew members from using the space allocated for passengers!
Last edited by kkbuk; 24th Nov 2017 at 20:24. Reason: Further thoughts
Paxing All Over The World
If hand baggage was checked to correctly fit the frame and weight at checkin/bag drop? But then the carrier has to pay for a person to monitor this and one who is menatlly and physically strong enough to deal with some of the more charming pax. So, that means money, so that means it won't happen.
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Quick question to the Forum re BA utilization of a/c. Currently I am in Cape Town airport awaiting to start trip home, and there are 2 747 and a 777 a/c here from BA all presumably awaiting evening returns to UK. I cannot believe it can be economic to have this amount of metal sat here for hours each day. I am bound home via DXB as have meeting there (and nolonger fly BA anyway) but is there enough traffic ex UK for this amount of a/c ?
its been like that since the days of VC10's at both JNB and CPT
the overnight flight from LON stays there until the evening to head back home
back in the 2000's BA started a double daily 747 to/from CPT one of which was a day flight home leaving around 0830 from CPT
if there are 3 a/c there this morning then one maybe tech from yesterday>? or is one a LGW flight now with a 777
as for traffic BA def seem to have enough (more than enough) especially since both SAA and VAA gave up the route but VAA was summer only anyway
now BA has some competition with Thomas cook and condor plus EK and TK via their mid-east hubs - plus KQ too via NBO
LH and KLM have done the CPT route for many years all year round and AF is summer
the overnight flight from LON stays there until the evening to head back home
back in the 2000's BA started a double daily 747 to/from CPT one of which was a day flight home leaving around 0830 from CPT
if there are 3 a/c there this morning then one maybe tech from yesterday>? or is one a LGW flight now with a 777
as for traffic BA def seem to have enough (more than enough) especially since both SAA and VAA gave up the route but VAA was summer only anyway
now BA has some competition with Thomas cook and condor plus EK and TK via their mid-east hubs - plus KQ too via NBO
LH and KLM have done the CPT route for many years all year round and AF is summer
IAG (principally BA) secure most of the former Monarch slots at Gatwick
BA owner IAG secures Monarch's Gatwick slots - BBC News
Given that the slots have to start being used fairly quickly, and the BA fleet is already in pretty full utilisation, one wonders what they will buy on the secondhand market to start using there - and where they will go.
BA owner IAG secures Monarch's Gatwick slots - BBC News
Given that the slots have to start being used fairly quickly, and the BA fleet is already in pretty full utilisation, one wonders what they will buy on the secondhand market to start using there - and where they will go.