MANCHESTER - 9
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The amount of transferring pax from CX to other One World flights will be the square root of zero - think about it. As a previous poster has pointed out both Qatar and Finnair both use T1.
It makes no difference which terminal CX use.....as long as it's not T3.
Imagine 300 bleary-eyed pax de-planing at 06.00 and ending up at the toytown Border post they have in T3. Tempers will fray, curses will fly and vows will be made never to use MAN or CX again. I've heard it all.
The last time I got caught, I too vowed to avoid T3 airlines and by and large I've managed to do that as a conscious travel policy.
It makes no difference which terminal CX use.....as long as it's not T3.
Imagine 300 bleary-eyed pax de-planing at 06.00 and ending up at the toytown Border post they have in T3. Tempers will fray, curses will fly and vows will be made never to use MAN or CX again. I've heard it all.
The last time I got caught, I too vowed to avoid T3 airlines and by and large I've managed to do that as a conscious travel policy.
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I gather Border Control at T3 is deficient because of stories of what happens when several packed RYR a/c arrive at similar times. Have we any hard evidence recently as to how it copes if the 2 AA flights arrive close together in a morning which could involve 300 passengers or even slightly more?
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Great news about Hong Kong, hopefully it will do well.
Open to correction, MAN is only processing around 150k transit pax per year hardly a lot to be a hub.
Most middle east carriers are going to try non stop whereever possible so is there really mcuh scope to target these carriers?
Interesting comment at the CAPA summit this morning from Irish Transport Minister !
DUBLIN is a secondary European transit hub we intend to take a very liberal view on 5th freedoms ......
Is DUB going after Eithad / Emirates US traffic ?
I would suggest Manchester is quickly falling into that category !
DUBLIN is a secondary European transit hub we intend to take a very liberal view on 5th freedoms ......
Is DUB going after Eithad / Emirates US traffic ?
I would suggest Manchester is quickly falling into that category !
Most middle east carriers are going to try non stop whereever possible so is there really mcuh scope to target these carriers?
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...according to update on the M E N a service to Beijing is sealed, flights
apparently ready to launch with small caveat ...
"subject to alteration of Bi lateral agreement" !
apparently ready to launch with small caveat ...
"subject to alteration of Bi lateral agreement" !
They have an A330-200 ready to run the flight, they have flight numbers and times applied ready for a Manchester flight, and now they are meeting with the Chinese and UK authorities to run a flight, applying off their own back for an addendum to the bilateral agreement to run flights to Manchester. They are apparently 'frustrated' at the slow progress being made in changing the bilateral agreement as a whole. The addendum they are applying for is for Manchester only, and will have to apply separately again if they wish to serve another UK point on top of MAN/LHR/LGW.
By all accounts, and this comes from a very trusted friend, the process is costing Air China some fair whack of money so there is no doubt they are serious about starting flights.
Whether Manchester can sustain such a large level of flights going east will be another question, but, if we only have to rely on the inbound numbers, there are certainly enough potential people to use the flights.
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LAX_LHR
Thanks for your updates on CX and also the China situation.
Do you know if the amendment to the bi-lateral that is being sought by Air China
is just to add Manchester within the current quota of flights, or does it involve an increase in the total number of flights permitted between China and the UK?
Thanks for your updates on CX and also the China situation.
Do you know if the amendment to the bi-lateral that is being sought by Air China
is just to add Manchester within the current quota of flights, or does it involve an increase in the total number of flights permitted between China and the UK?
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I have been critical of MAN's advertising in the past, but seems they aim to change the tide with the CX launch.
Its already plastered over social media with its own 'hashtag' of #manchester2hongkong (someone will have to explain what this hash-tagging does as Im clueless about social media), its already in the 'new routes' section on the MAN site, as well as the MAN homepage.
Also I have seen a quote from MAN PR:
'This is one of the most important route launches Manchester has seen in a long time. We have 8 months to get as much information and awareness out there as we can regarding the route, and if that means we need to go for all four corners of the globe and shout about it, then that's what we need to do'.
Its already plastered over social media with its own 'hashtag' of #manchester2hongkong (someone will have to explain what this hash-tagging does as Im clueless about social media), its already in the 'new routes' section on the MAN site, as well as the MAN homepage.
Also I have seen a quote from MAN PR:
'This is one of the most important route launches Manchester has seen in a long time. We have 8 months to get as much information and awareness out there as we can regarding the route, and if that means we need to go for all four corners of the globe and shout about it, then that's what we need to do'.
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Plugging in to the China Syndrome
And so we await further news on the choice of Terminal for CX MAN-HKG services, and indeed for any prospective service to elsewhere in China. Ideally, alliances would be co-located within the same terminal, but that gets difficult as airports reach capacity, as happened at LHR during the on-going terminal redevelopments. Some carriers there had services using more than one terminal (BA still do). MAN now faces such issues. T3 has very limited wide-body stand availability unless and until it is extended. T2 would seem to be the best fit for CX. Let's wait and see. T1 and T2 have no domestic capability, T2 is a distance from T1/T3. T2 has few short-haul flag carrier services and so any feed to long-haul there must rely on a good inter-terminal transfer product. For an airport with such passenger volume and number of long-haul destinations (relatively speaking), and such an excellent range of domestic flights, MAN underperforms on transfer traffic. Improving the transfer product must now be a priority if MAN is to capitalise on its growth towards a critical mass where the connecting possibilities fuel further growth in destinations and frequency.
A 'critical spoke' is how Skipness 1E describes MAN. Indeed, that is now assured. However, I believe that given the right transfer product a mini-hub (sub-hub?) is achievable, even without a major based carrier. Life is always interesting and full of opportunity at this unique airport.
A 'critical spoke' is how Skipness 1E describes MAN. Indeed, that is now assured. However, I believe that given the right transfer product a mini-hub (sub-hub?) is achievable, even without a major based carrier. Life is always interesting and full of opportunity at this unique airport.
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I have been critical of MAN's advertising in the past, but seems they aim to change the tide with the CX launch.
So have I, on an evangelical scale.
Today utterly BRILLIANT....a tsunami of social media+ !
Reuters, BBC, ITV, M.E.N and all briefed in early hours so was ready to roll from dawn and did not get lost in clutter of new news
Superbly executed !
More please...every route, every launch, every time !
So have I, on an evangelical scale.
Today utterly BRILLIANT....a tsunami of social media+ !
Reuters, BBC, ITV, M.E.N and all briefed in early hours so was ready to roll from dawn and did not get lost in clutter of new news
Superbly executed !
More please...every route, every launch, every time !
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There was even an interview with a MAG rep on 5 Live - Wake up to Money this morning about the return of CX. Also raised was prospect of further long haul flights. The response of "Discussions are ongoing" especially with reference to an additional Chinese destination.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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At last that's one route I can do with out the DXB shuffle. However I know what CX is like having used them in the Far East recently, and they better up there game as its not been a great time for me in Business class. I well appreciate the fervour of the airport supporters on this thread but CX is not what it was.
Regards
MrMac
Regards
MrMac
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Did someone forget SIA whilst briefing the press?
Even PM David Cameron endorsed MAN's Cathay Pacific announcement in his speech made today whilst launching the Conservative Party European election manifesto at Manchester Airport. I wonder if anybody present nudged him to 'politically interfere' in the bilateral limiting Air China whilst we're at it? Anyway, can't fault the publicity drive by MAG in support of CX this time.
Unfortunately, the subsequent MEN report describes the new CX operation as 'Manchester's first direct link to the Far East'. I think that the long-established Singapore Airlines service deserves a little more recognition than that after many years of uninterrupted operation … even if it does call at MUC en route. I hope that SQ do not feel unappreciated at MAN as they see their 'prodigal son' rival lauded throughout the media and their own daily service not even meriting acknowledgment of its existence. We don't want to gain one and lose one!
All round, an excellent day for MAN. But remember not to overlook those loyal carriers which have never let us down whilst we promote the wares of the newcomers.
Unfortunately, the subsequent MEN report describes the new CX operation as 'Manchester's first direct link to the Far East'. I think that the long-established Singapore Airlines service deserves a little more recognition than that after many years of uninterrupted operation … even if it does call at MUC en route. I hope that SQ do not feel unappreciated at MAN as they see their 'prodigal son' rival lauded throughout the media and their own daily service not even meriting acknowledgment of its existence. We don't want to gain one and lose one!
All round, an excellent day for MAN. But remember not to overlook those loyal carriers which have never let us down whilst we promote the wares of the newcomers.
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BAGSO, Sir,
New on here as a member so first chance I have had to speak to you.
2 years ago I got pushed into going to New York from Manchester where I live. Really did not fancy the "big apple"
Got prices and, in round figures, Continental were cheapest.
Did a bit of research and found that going to Amsterdam to New York and then back to Paris and Man was around £200 per person cheaper.
Yes it extends the flights and link up times, but, to be honest I would pay to be delayed at AMS and on the way back a pint or two at 6am in Paris was a great end to an enjoyable trip.
But, it does not make sense as your posting highlights.
New on here as a member so first chance I have had to speak to you.
2 years ago I got pushed into going to New York from Manchester where I live. Really did not fancy the "big apple"
Got prices and, in round figures, Continental were cheapest.
Did a bit of research and found that going to Amsterdam to New York and then back to Paris and Man was around £200 per person cheaper.
Yes it extends the flights and link up times, but, to be honest I would pay to be delayed at AMS and on the way back a pint or two at 6am in Paris was a great end to an enjoyable trip.
But, it does not make sense as your posting highlights.
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Welcome aboard Mr Smitham
I agree, on a personal level "if" it was £200 cheaper I would do exactly the same no matter what my loyalty is to Mancunia and ManAirport.
My argument is and has always been about the formulae.
Most tickets are sold via the ticketing portals, they work for the most part on price sensitivity, it is an undisputed fact that that they are loaded against Manchester as they are biased towards the major hubs.
I would also argue that they do not always give the same weight to time savings as they do price, so you have to hunt down the direct element. Because some are run by certain airlines they can also be quite frankly misleading as they give the impression there is no direct flight
It is not a problem that effects other UK "provincial airports" as they simply don't have the range of long haul destinations that Manchester has so jumping on a LH from BHX or a KL from Leeds works fine for them.
You could also argue that MAN pax benefit like the LBA/BHX pax do from what appears to a subsidy if you fly to a destination where there is no direct service.
BUT my interest is purely in the success of the MAN long haul network so on that basis I am happy to argue that it discriminates and has done for sometime against our very specific long haul services.
It appears the status quo may be crumbling but if it is maintained you never break out of the cycle !
There are those who will argue vehemently that this is how the market works, so tough !
I would contest that no other industry would work like that !
How you solve it is another Q !
I am not a tree hugger far from it BUT there is something utterly barmy (and whilst I am wearing my loincloth), dare I suggest environmentally damaging about a system where it is dearer to fly via an airport 200 or 600 miles away than fly direct !
It becomes even more ludicrous when in the case of US flights to New York , you then fly back over Manchester 3 hours later, especially if you are in economy and are sat there isolated in solitary splendour !
There simply has to be a cost involved so how on earth can it possibly be cheaper ?
I agree, on a personal level "if" it was £200 cheaper I would do exactly the same no matter what my loyalty is to Mancunia and ManAirport.
My argument is and has always been about the formulae.
Most tickets are sold via the ticketing portals, they work for the most part on price sensitivity, it is an undisputed fact that that they are loaded against Manchester as they are biased towards the major hubs.
I would also argue that they do not always give the same weight to time savings as they do price, so you have to hunt down the direct element. Because some are run by certain airlines they can also be quite frankly misleading as they give the impression there is no direct flight
It is not a problem that effects other UK "provincial airports" as they simply don't have the range of long haul destinations that Manchester has so jumping on a LH from BHX or a KL from Leeds works fine for them.
You could also argue that MAN pax benefit like the LBA/BHX pax do from what appears to a subsidy if you fly to a destination where there is no direct service.
BUT my interest is purely in the success of the MAN long haul network so on that basis I am happy to argue that it discriminates and has done for sometime against our very specific long haul services.
It appears the status quo may be crumbling but if it is maintained you never break out of the cycle !
There are those who will argue vehemently that this is how the market works, so tough !
I would contest that no other industry would work like that !
How you solve it is another Q !
I am not a tree hugger far from it BUT there is something utterly barmy (and whilst I am wearing my loincloth), dare I suggest environmentally damaging about a system where it is dearer to fly via an airport 200 or 600 miles away than fly direct !
It becomes even more ludicrous when in the case of US flights to New York , you then fly back over Manchester 3 hours later, especially if you are in economy and are sat there isolated in solitary splendour !
There simply has to be a cost involved so how on earth can it possibly be cheaper ?
Last edited by Bagso; 11th Apr 2014 at 07:04.
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Newscaster,
PIA are pulling LBA and capacity on MAN-ISB is way down on previous years, so its possible, but one could argue that the middle eastern carriers, including low cost flynas from next month means the market is pretty much sealed up now?
PIA are pulling LBA and capacity on MAN-ISB is way down on previous years, so its possible, but one could argue that the middle eastern carriers, including low cost flynas from next month means the market is pretty much sealed up now?
Join Date: Jul 2007
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"Did someone forget SIA whilst briefing the press?"
Shed, am I right in thinking it was only in the report of Cameron's comments that this mistake occurred? If so, it may well be that Cameron was wrongly briefed by a civil servant - would that surprise you - after all SIA did have rather a fight against bureaucracy getting a flight to Manchester in the first place all those years ago! Of course, it could be he was misquoted, but either way somebody didn't do their homework.
It remains to be seen what happens with the Singapore service but let's hope we retain what has been, as you rightly say, a very loyal customer after 28 years of operation.
Anyway, congrats to MAN for securing the HK route and for ensuring it received due publicity.
Shed, am I right in thinking it was only in the report of Cameron's comments that this mistake occurred? If so, it may well be that Cameron was wrongly briefed by a civil servant - would that surprise you - after all SIA did have rather a fight against bureaucracy getting a flight to Manchester in the first place all those years ago! Of course, it could be he was misquoted, but either way somebody didn't do their homework.
It remains to be seen what happens with the Singapore service but let's hope we retain what has been, as you rightly say, a very loyal customer after 28 years of operation.
Anyway, congrats to MAN for securing the HK route and for ensuring it received due publicity.
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Not sure about the PM but the M E N Business Editor Adam Jupp also suggested it in his video presentation !
...I corrected him within an hour of issue!
"If" the PM also quoted that HK was the first far eastern link it sadly does suggest to me a mistake in a circulated PR brief, media types and spin doctors are unlikely to go too far off piste.
Must confess my only point of criticism re marketing (there had to be one), if we can do this for Hong Kong why not some of the other services ?
You wont necessarily get the media agencies on board as per other new destinations as they simply don't have the same kudos of this new service, BUT you can use Facebook, Twitter Google+ to good effect and it only costs time !
SAUDIA is a revelation BUT barely seen any publicity !
USAir ?
Rouge ?
FlyNas ...a bit
Egyptair none to speak of !
and of course what of some of the short haul that may need a leg up ?
MAGs twitter following alone is 100K plus, with an RT multiplier its millions !
OK some may say SAUDIA doesn't need it ....YES it does !
Nothing to stop MAG inviting some of the senior faith leaders across the North Midlands NWest and South Yorkshire to publicise the service to potential visitors to Mecca / Medina etc
There are also numerous Business and Ex Pat forums as well !
Historically Manchester will always be in the shadow of LHR so they have to use everything in the armoury to maximise every route, airline, frequency passenger etc.
Having gained these services MAG need to make damn sure we hang on to them !
Last week I saw a conversation where they went big on LittleRed ...yet again !
When quizzed that this simply drains customers to London to the detriment of our direct flights, precisely what Charlie Cornish has eluded to, they argued that they supported ALL Manchester's customers ...hmmmm !
...I corrected him within an hour of issue!
"If" the PM also quoted that HK was the first far eastern link it sadly does suggest to me a mistake in a circulated PR brief, media types and spin doctors are unlikely to go too far off piste.
Must confess my only point of criticism re marketing (there had to be one), if we can do this for Hong Kong why not some of the other services ?
You wont necessarily get the media agencies on board as per other new destinations as they simply don't have the same kudos of this new service, BUT you can use Facebook, Twitter Google+ to good effect and it only costs time !
SAUDIA is a revelation BUT barely seen any publicity !
USAir ?
Rouge ?
FlyNas ...a bit
Egyptair none to speak of !
and of course what of some of the short haul that may need a leg up ?
MAGs twitter following alone is 100K plus, with an RT multiplier its millions !
OK some may say SAUDIA doesn't need it ....YES it does !
Nothing to stop MAG inviting some of the senior faith leaders across the North Midlands NWest and South Yorkshire to publicise the service to potential visitors to Mecca / Medina etc
There are also numerous Business and Ex Pat forums as well !
Historically Manchester will always be in the shadow of LHR so they have to use everything in the armoury to maximise every route, airline, frequency passenger etc.
Having gained these services MAG need to make damn sure we hang on to them !
Last week I saw a conversation where they went big on LittleRed ...yet again !
When quizzed that this simply drains customers to London to the detriment of our direct flights, precisely what Charlie Cornish has eluded to, they argued that they supported ALL Manchester's customers ...hmmmm !
Last edited by Bagso; 11th Apr 2014 at 09:12.
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Given the rumours of a 4th daily EK flight, the fact DXB-MAN-JFK and other USA tag-ons were strongly hinted in the past, and now the fact the Italians have ruled that EK's DXB-MXP-JFK cannot be operated after April 1st 2015, I wonder if the idea of the MAN transit could be back on the table?
Im not suggesting its rumoured, but, one for thought.
Im not suggesting its rumoured, but, one for thought.