DONCASTER SHEFFIELD
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So much negativity!
The number of people wanting/willing to fly from DSA will not be realised unless there are options to fly from DSA.
From previous years, when airlines have offered routes there has been demand. Keeping those routes and attracting operators does seem to be the problem of Peel management.
What are they doing to attract new or bring back operators. it's interesting that whilst everyone on this forum seem to think DSA is failing, Peel themselves are silent. maybe they are happy with the volumes offered by their two airline partners and the income generated from the site attracting residents based on future potential and accessibility.
The new road will benefit residents of the site As well as air travellers and logistical operators. 15min saving will make a difference. motorway travel from junct 3 would see the vehicle 18 miles outside of Doncaster, and that takes in quite an amount of logistical destinations in the South/West/North Yorkshire and Notts/Lincs.
Surely there is some optimism that despite what has been seen to date, Peel can employ the right people to use the link road as a catalyst to make DSA realise its true potential, lure back the airlines that should never have been allowed to leave (Ryan Easy) and those that should have come (Monarch), end Thomsons monopoly, and see the footfall that will keep all the services open to further enhance the attractiveness of the Airport.
From previous years, when airlines have offered routes there has been demand. Keeping those routes and attracting operators does seem to be the problem of Peel management.
What are they doing to attract new or bring back operators. it's interesting that whilst everyone on this forum seem to think DSA is failing, Peel themselves are silent. maybe they are happy with the volumes offered by their two airline partners and the income generated from the site attracting residents based on future potential and accessibility.
The new road will benefit residents of the site As well as air travellers and logistical operators. 15min saving will make a difference. motorway travel from junct 3 would see the vehicle 18 miles outside of Doncaster, and that takes in quite an amount of logistical destinations in the South/West/North Yorkshire and Notts/Lincs.
Surely there is some optimism that despite what has been seen to date, Peel can employ the right people to use the link road as a catalyst to make DSA realise its true potential, lure back the airlines that should never have been allowed to leave (Ryan Easy) and those that should have come (Monarch), end Thomsons monopoly, and see the footfall that will keep all the services open to further enhance the attractiveness of the Airport.
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I love this thread.
"When services have been run there has been demand"
Yes, so much demand obviously the airlines/routes involved didn't come back
"Air Canada rouge...might work here"
Air Canada rouge might well fly to DSA at some point, unfortunately for DSA it will come after they've launched Norwich, Bournemouth and Exeter or indeed airports such as Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, Gatwick and Stansted that really could support such a service
"When services have been run there has been demand"
Yes, so much demand obviously the airlines/routes involved didn't come back
"Air Canada rouge...might work here"
Air Canada rouge might well fly to DSA at some point, unfortunately for DSA it will come after they've launched Norwich, Bournemouth and Exeter or indeed airports such as Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, Gatwick and Stansted that really could support such a service
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The number of people wanting/willing to fly from DSA will not be realised unless there are options to fly from DSA.
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DSA hasn't had a new route for nearly 3 years, but has lost dozens, with Thomson axing another 3 as from next summer.
The terminal is already run down, with next to no facilities other than a coffee machine.
Peel refuse to comment and passenger numbers continue to fall.
I predicted closure by 2015. I stand by that,
The terminal is already run down, with next to no facilities other than a coffee machine.
Peel refuse to comment and passenger numbers continue to fall.
I predicted closure by 2015. I stand by that,
I realise everything you post here is wrong Timmy, we are used to that by now, but you haven't predicted closure by 2015. It was 2012, and then on the next day it was 2011.
http://www.pprune.org/6065606-post630.html
I realise its hard running from forum to forum posting that your mate in Peel/Thompson/Doncaster Free Press/The Moon has told you something, that you never manage to quantify, apart from 'oooh I heard a scary story' but you could at least try to be consistent when you quote yourself.
Hasn't your mate told you about the increase in flights this winter? I'd have thought you being a supporter of DSA, you'd be pleased about that and be here telling us all about them. Unless of course you haven't got a mate at all and you're just making it up.
The only marking of your words people do, is with a stick.
A brown one.
http://www.pprune.org/6065606-post630.html
I realise its hard running from forum to forum posting that your mate in Peel/Thompson/Doncaster Free Press/The Moon has told you something, that you never manage to quantify, apart from 'oooh I heard a scary story' but you could at least try to be consistent when you quote yourself.
Hasn't your mate told you about the increase in flights this winter? I'd have thought you being a supporter of DSA, you'd be pleased about that and be here telling us all about them. Unless of course you haven't got a mate at all and you're just making it up.
The only marking of your words people do, is with a stick.
A brown one.
Last edited by jumpseater; 18th Oct 2013 at 20:43.
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There has been some good posts on here recently, But got to admit there is no need for the Timmy bashing after just one post by him tonight. He has a right to say what he thinks even if we don't agree with him on everything
I agree that DSA has a future even if it’s not pulling it weight at the minute and hasn't been for a few years now, I'm also sure a new link road is not going change things over-night.
They maybe airlines are out there that might have an interest in operations from DSA. Hopefully as was mentioned before on here an airline in the future may consider launching new routes when it’s proven to be both a profitable & viable operation to do so. But that's going to be down DSA owners Peel and its management to do some really good marketing by selling the airports region/catchment area to the airlines.
The question is how long are Peel going to wait? As it might already be too late! You've really just got look nearby LBA, MAN and EMA where monthly passenger stats are on a upward trend and have been for a while. Meanwhile DSA own figures continue to drop away for some reason.
I agree that DSA has a future even if it’s not pulling it weight at the minute and hasn't been for a few years now, I'm also sure a new link road is not going change things over-night.
They maybe airlines are out there that might have an interest in operations from DSA. Hopefully as was mentioned before on here an airline in the future may consider launching new routes when it’s proven to be both a profitable & viable operation to do so. But that's going to be down DSA owners Peel and its management to do some really good marketing by selling the airports region/catchment area to the airlines.
The question is how long are Peel going to wait? As it might already be too late! You've really just got look nearby LBA, MAN and EMA where monthly passenger stats are on a upward trend and have been for a while. Meanwhile DSA own figures continue to drop away for some reason.
Last edited by LBIA; 18th Oct 2013 at 22:38.
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While im not always in agreeance with Timmy. And I dont think it will close in 2015.
His basic point is valid.
This crowd seem to go out of their way to be deliberately inert. Can the quantify what significant new routes they have won in the time Timmy has qouted. And if your reading at the airport may we respectfully have an explaination of where you intend to go from here.
You cant blame the economy. Theres a mass investment coming. So why did HUY bag SAS?.
Another premium route. Id say its almost certain they will gain a few more.
In short what are Dsa doing. We want other destinations domestic and northern european and The likes of Italy.
Or further up and prauge .
They need to be adveturous.
Howabout Stavanger. That seems to work well from others. Also surprised it doesnt or hasnt flown from HUY We need motivation and ideas. Howabout a public forum like we have at town council. Public get three mins to speak. Maybe that way we can ask management directly what the game plan is.
If mamston can sustain Klm Dsa ought to be swamped
His basic point is valid.
This crowd seem to go out of their way to be deliberately inert. Can the quantify what significant new routes they have won in the time Timmy has qouted. And if your reading at the airport may we respectfully have an explaination of where you intend to go from here.
You cant blame the economy. Theres a mass investment coming. So why did HUY bag SAS?.
Another premium route. Id say its almost certain they will gain a few more.
In short what are Dsa doing. We want other destinations domestic and northern european and The likes of Italy.
Or further up and prauge .
They need to be adveturous.
Howabout Stavanger. That seems to work well from others. Also surprised it doesnt or hasnt flown from HUY We need motivation and ideas. Howabout a public forum like we have at town council. Public get three mins to speak. Maybe that way we can ask management directly what the game plan is.
If mamston can sustain Klm Dsa ought to be swamped
Perhaps some of DSA's supporters could give a clear business case as to how an airline could make significant profits without much risk at Doncaster ? Pick an airline, pick a destination, pick an aircraft type, pick a sample schedule for when the aircraft should fly the route and explain what type of people are going to be paying fares and why... and then explain how the route will become profitable.
Anyone can make money flying from a shed with a runway in the UK to a Spanish beach on Saturdays in August. Aircraft need to be used all week, and in quiet seasons as well. The greater amount of wealth means Manchester will get first choice on the Saturday beach routes - Doncaster has to make a routes work on less busy days and/or multiple days in the week and for many months in the year to gain an airline's attention.
Oh and don't forget to consider competing routes at East Midlands, Humberside and Leeds-Bradford - if another airline is making money at (for example) Leeds with its larger population and greater number of businesses, you should provide a very good reason as to why the same route will work at Doncaster as well. If a route was tried at Leeds / East Midlands and flopped, you need to justify very clearly why it would work at Doncaster.
In short, see if you can come up with a convincing story that could be presented to an airline to encourage them to fly to DSA. Think of this as Dragon's Den for DSA route development.
I'd like to wish that a double daily with KLM could work. However with a train service taking 1h15 and running every hour (or every 30 mins with a change) from Sheffield to Manchester airport versus 45 mins by road to DSA, the 6x daily KLM service would probably win out on frequency - much like Newcastle versus Durham Tees Valley. Again with other routes, a Manchester that's willing to take network and LCC carriers mean big brother is just a bit too nearby for DSA to succeed in many (but not all) cases. The question is therefore what niches remain untapped ?
I'm not saying DSA has no future - rather that if you want to have a moan about DSA management not being good enough, then you need to come up with your own well-thought-out ideas as to how you could do better at running the airport.
Anyone can make money flying from a shed with a runway in the UK to a Spanish beach on Saturdays in August. Aircraft need to be used all week, and in quiet seasons as well. The greater amount of wealth means Manchester will get first choice on the Saturday beach routes - Doncaster has to make a routes work on less busy days and/or multiple days in the week and for many months in the year to gain an airline's attention.
Oh and don't forget to consider competing routes at East Midlands, Humberside and Leeds-Bradford - if another airline is making money at (for example) Leeds with its larger population and greater number of businesses, you should provide a very good reason as to why the same route will work at Doncaster as well. If a route was tried at Leeds / East Midlands and flopped, you need to justify very clearly why it would work at Doncaster.
In short, see if you can come up with a convincing story that could be presented to an airline to encourage them to fly to DSA. Think of this as Dragon's Den for DSA route development.
I'd like to wish that a double daily with KLM could work. However with a train service taking 1h15 and running every hour (or every 30 mins with a change) from Sheffield to Manchester airport versus 45 mins by road to DSA, the 6x daily KLM service would probably win out on frequency - much like Newcastle versus Durham Tees Valley. Again with other routes, a Manchester that's willing to take network and LCC carriers mean big brother is just a bit too nearby for DSA to succeed in many (but not all) cases. The question is therefore what niches remain untapped ?
I'm not saying DSA has no future - rather that if you want to have a moan about DSA management not being good enough, then you need to come up with your own well-thought-out ideas as to how you could do better at running the airport.
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 19th Oct 2013 at 01:13.
DJ6's challenge could equally well be applied on the Belfast, Blackpool, Bournemouth, Cardiff, DTVA, Prestwick and all the Irish regional threads.
It's like all those football phone-in's demanding new players - people on here are very good at spending other people's money!
It's like all those football phone-in's demanding new players - people on here are very good at spending other people's money!
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New Routes??
Tesco doesn't open a store within a mile of Asda & Morrisons looking for new customers, they want to attract their competitors customers. The problem is DSA isn't buying in the same brands. They have a big store, the essential facilities, but access is an issue. If they sort out the access and attract the brands the customer has a more balanced choice.
Talking convenience (no pun) with the new road there will be 5 minutes difference travelling from Wetherby (15 miles from LBA & classed as outer Leeds) to DSA straight down the A1/M18.
Do Peel start shouting/touting or do they sit back with the one airline they did poach from LBA in 2005 - use I know TOM are back at LBA now but even they didn't see Jet 2 Holidays coming (that's "holidays" not airline) and gues what TOM move back in next door just like Tesco
Talking convenience (no pun) with the new road there will be 5 minutes difference travelling from Wetherby (15 miles from LBA & classed as outer Leeds) to DSA straight down the A1/M18.
Do Peel start shouting/touting or do they sit back with the one airline they did poach from LBA in 2005 - use I know TOM are back at LBA now but even they didn't see Jet 2 Holidays coming (that's "holidays" not airline) and gues what TOM move back in next door just like Tesco
DJ6, as always, puts his case well.
DSA was built during a period when the economy was growing (albeit fuelled by debt), and people felt affluent, so took holidays.
At the same time, low cost airlines were booming, and every airport of note had attracted a loco to base some units and fly popular routes. About the last loco to start was Thomsonfly, and its chosen bases, CVT and DSA, were clearly not prime locations, merely those airports left with facilities but no competition.
The demise of Thomsonfly, and later Globespan and BMIbaby, caused problems for DSA, Cardiff, Teesside and Coventry all of whom had relied on just one loco operator.
Coventry has not survived as a passenger terminal, and Teesside is going the same way. DSA is in a sparsely-populated region with lower than average propensity to travel. It is surrounded by other, more established airports such as EMA, LBA and MAN, each with loco bases.
Unless DSA can attract other aviation-related business, I'm afraid I can't see it surviving as a passenger terminal.
DSA was built during a period when the economy was growing (albeit fuelled by debt), and people felt affluent, so took holidays.
At the same time, low cost airlines were booming, and every airport of note had attracted a loco to base some units and fly popular routes. About the last loco to start was Thomsonfly, and its chosen bases, CVT and DSA, were clearly not prime locations, merely those airports left with facilities but no competition.
The demise of Thomsonfly, and later Globespan and BMIbaby, caused problems for DSA, Cardiff, Teesside and Coventry all of whom had relied on just one loco operator.
Coventry has not survived as a passenger terminal, and Teesside is going the same way. DSA is in a sparsely-populated region with lower than average propensity to travel. It is surrounded by other, more established airports such as EMA, LBA and MAN, each with loco bases.
Unless DSA can attract other aviation-related business, I'm afraid I can't see it surviving as a passenger terminal.
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Nice to see some well thought out and realistic comments about the future of DSA. I agree that its future looks somewhat bleak and as DSA tries to fight back even market share the other airports will step up their endeavours too such as attracting new routes and airlines and even improving access such as LBA and a possible new access road or train facilities. Another example SAS to HUY.
Like the supermarkets its a tough competitive world out there as DSA has found out.
Like the supermarkets its a tough competitive world out there as DSA has found out.
But got to admit there is no need for the Timmy bashing after just one post by him tonight. He has a right to say what he thinks even if we don't agree with him on everything
Robin Hood Airport
So as usual an exact opposite to what Timmy has stated. Peel have commented, and an increase in passenger numbers.
The airport certainly needs to do better, an increase of a winter route is a step, albeit a small one, in the right direction.
Last edited by jumpseater; 19th Oct 2013 at 13:10.
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Jumpseater is that really an extra flight or just more spin from DSA? As I thought the extra Arrecife flight was just a replacement for one of the 2x weekly Sharm el Sheikh services which has been axed.
Last edited by LBIA; 19th Oct 2013 at 15:30.
LBIA, you'll have to forgive me as I don't understand 'spotter' thought processes.
If a flight no longer operates to a destination it no longer operates. If you put on another flight to the same destination you could call it a replacement.
So a route that avoids the previously 'axed' destination by some 6,500 kilometres and is in the Atlantic Ocean on the other side of Africa, (in a different country),its a bit more difficult to claim its 'spin' and that its not a new flight.
If however, LBIA Tours announce new exciting tours including the Pyramids on a one day coach trip from Playa Honda, I'll agree that its a 'replacement'.
If a flight no longer operates to a destination it no longer operates. If you put on another flight to the same destination you could call it a replacement.
So a route that avoids the previously 'axed' destination by some 6,500 kilometres and is in the Atlantic Ocean on the other side of Africa, (in a different country),its a bit more difficult to claim its 'spin'
and that its not a new flight. If however, LBIA Tours announce new exciting tours including the Pyramids on a one day coach trip from Playa Honda, I'll agree that its a 'replacement'.
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That story is complete garbage. Only the August figures show an increase, the year on year figures show decline.
And the airport doens't handle over 720000 passengers a year either.
And the Lanzarote route isn't additional either, it was already there, it has just gained an extra departure every week, due to the loss of a Sharm.
And the airport doens't handle over 720000 passengers a year either.
And the Lanzarote route isn't additional either, it was already there, it has just gained an extra departure every week, due to the loss of a Sharm.