DONCASTER SHEFFIELD
Changing the road network will be insignificant compared with changing the mind set of passengers who presently use EMA, LBA and MAN !
Doncaster is a long way from the 7m pax per annum forecast by Caroline Flint MP at the public enquiry....not many of the forecast 7000 jobs created either.
It's a shame, splendid airport but in the wrong place?
H49
Doncaster is a long way from the 7m pax per annum forecast by Caroline Flint MP at the public enquiry....not many of the forecast 7000 jobs created either.
It's a shame, splendid airport but in the wrong place?
H49
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Helen49, not so much the mindset of the passengers, but the mindset of the airlines. It's the airlines who decide where to launch flights. The airport went from 0 to 2 million passengers in 3 years. So passengers are willing to travel if the flights are there.
The biggest problem for Robin Hood was they relied on Thomson Fly as a launch airline, and they went and ditched their budget airline model after a couple of years and went charter only. And it's been downhill since then.
The biggest problem for Robin Hood was they relied on Thomson Fly as a launch airline, and they went and ditched their budget airline model after a couple of years and went charter only. And it's been downhill since then.
Wb999 - you mentioned that "The airport went from 0 to 2 million passengers in 3 years"
Do you mean that over a period of 3 years, 2m people passed through or that 2m passengers were achieved in a single year ?
If you're looking over a cumulative 3 year period then a lot of UK airports would have very impressive stats...
Do you mean that over a period of 3 years, 2m people passed through or that 2m passengers were achieved in a single year ?
If you're looking over a cumulative 3 year period then a lot of UK airports would have very impressive stats...
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
davidjohnson6, 2.6 million cumulative in the first 3 years of opening. I'm not comparing the current passengers of decades-old airports with one that was brand new, as it's natural to expect a long established airport to achieve higher (although quite a few struggle to get 2 million over 3, 4 or 5 years).
2 million in the first 3 years of a brand new airport, in my opinion, shows that the demand is there if the flights are there. But the flights currently aren't there. Which is why it's the airlines mindset that needs changing, rather than the passengers.
2 million in the first 3 years of a brand new airport, in my opinion, shows that the demand is there if the flights are there. But the flights currently aren't there. Which is why it's the airlines mindset that needs changing, rather than the passengers.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Helen49, not so much the mindset of the passengers, but the mindset of the airlines. It's the airlines who decide where to launch flights.
DSA was the answer to a question no one was asking sadly.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 16th Oct 2013 at 15:08.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The mindset of the airline industry is quite straightforward.
Question 1: Will the deployment of our scarce resources on the route DSA-XXX result in a healthy profit for our company? [Note: Profit matters; passenger numbers are incidental].
Question 2: If the answer to Q1 is 'yes', will the profit on the service(s) ex-DSA exceed those anticipated from alternative opportunities offered by other airports which are also available to us?
If the answer to both questions is 'yes', DSA is in the running. If not, an alternative will be selected.
And don't forget, a "winning" bid may not be geographically nearby. For example, if Typical Airways evaluates three potential new routes from its base at Koln-Bonn ... let's say DSA, Tel Aviv and Helsinki ... these options will be ranked in order of anticipated profitability. If Helsinki looks most profitable, CGN-HEL would be the new route. Thus, DSA would lose out to a route which is geographically distant from its own operation.
Note too that the thought process is not done on the basis that the contenders will be one of a cluster of nearby airports (eg. DSA / LBA / EMA / HUY). Consider only revenue and profitability. DSA is in competition with every other potential destination in Europe, not just local rivals. It will have to present a compelling case if significant new business is to be attracted. All the local civic pride stuff is purely the preserve of mayors and councillors.
EDIT: Hi Skipness - No intention to tread on your toes there; our postings crossed. Regards.
Question 1: Will the deployment of our scarce resources on the route DSA-XXX result in a healthy profit for our company? [Note: Profit matters; passenger numbers are incidental].
Question 2: If the answer to Q1 is 'yes', will the profit on the service(s) ex-DSA exceed those anticipated from alternative opportunities offered by other airports which are also available to us?
If the answer to both questions is 'yes', DSA is in the running. If not, an alternative will be selected.
And don't forget, a "winning" bid may not be geographically nearby. For example, if Typical Airways evaluates three potential new routes from its base at Koln-Bonn ... let's say DSA, Tel Aviv and Helsinki ... these options will be ranked in order of anticipated profitability. If Helsinki looks most profitable, CGN-HEL would be the new route. Thus, DSA would lose out to a route which is geographically distant from its own operation.
Note too that the thought process is not done on the basis that the contenders will be one of a cluster of nearby airports (eg. DSA / LBA / EMA / HUY). Consider only revenue and profitability. DSA is in competition with every other potential destination in Europe, not just local rivals. It will have to present a compelling case if significant new business is to be attracted. All the local civic pride stuff is purely the preserve of mayors and councillors.
EDIT: Hi Skipness - No intention to tread on your toes there; our postings crossed. Regards.
Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 16th Oct 2013 at 15:23.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sometimes north, sometimes south
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
1 Post
wb9999:
The DSA business model, as tested in the public inquiry in 2003, was to poach the vast majority of their passengers from Manchester, Leeds-Bradford and Humberside. They grew in the first two years and it's been downhill ever since. It was always a shaky business model. It started to fail before the downturn.
NS
2 million in the first 3 years of a brand new airport, in my opinion, shows that the demand is there if the flights are there
NS
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Moved back to enemy territory... Leeds!!
Age: 49
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You see timmy? Typical airways are considering donny, and it's down to the last three. Fingers crossed we'll be flying to Koeln-Bonn in the not too distant future. Oh ye of little faith.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 417 Likes
on
220 Posts
Changing the road network will be insignificant compared with changing the mind set of passengers who presently use EMA, LBA and MAN !
LBA can be a nightmare to get to. From personal experience, the facilities are relatively limited. After our recent experiences there we won't be using that airport again. We suffered a delay of 30 minutes getting off the aircraft (apparently not enough steps and/or ground staff), further delays getting into then through the terminal. Then waiting a further hour and ten minutes to get on the so-called "every 5 minutes" shuttle buses to the car parks. No thanks, just not good enough.
MAN can also be difficult to get to from east of the Pennines. Both the Woodhead Pass and Snake Pass can take forever because you cannot overtake slow vehicles, other than in a couple of places. If you're in a line of traffic behind a slow HGV or caravanner, forget overtaking. If there's an accident ahead on either road, as there often is, both roads are treacherous, you may well miss your flight altogether. You can use the M62, but this adds a lot of extra road miles and can also at times be very congested.
If there's a flight from Doncaster, then I'd certainly prefer to use it because it is already easy to get to, with a couple of alternative routes. The car parking is very adjacent - walk out of the terminal and cross the road to your car a few metres away.
The flights have to exist first!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: north yorkshire
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My wife and her elderly father recently used Robin Hood for their Saturday Afternoon flight to Jersey. Never again!! Terminal was empty and other than WH Smith everything else was closed.
They were sent back to checking in desk from security because Boarding Card printing was poor (was obvious who it was for!). Scanned fathers bag three times (there was a pair of binoculars in it) - all they had to do was to ask a simple question but made a big deal out of it, and airport staff did nothing but moan because they had to wheel him to plane in a wheel chair.
Not the way to attract return passengers!
They were sent back to checking in desk from security because Boarding Card printing was poor (was obvious who it was for!). Scanned fathers bag three times (there was a pair of binoculars in it) - all they had to do was to ask a simple question but made a big deal out of it, and airport staff did nothing but moan because they had to wheel him to plane in a wheel chair.
Not the way to attract return passengers!
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Crowle United Kingdom
Age: 50
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Despite my personal support and hope for the airport in not just passenger but freight and other traffic.
I think that the Terminal is a Discrace. I know its not as downbeat as some. But inside is almost a mirror image of some 1980's Eastern European Bloc airport.
I think that the Terminal is a Discrace. I know its not as downbeat as some. But inside is almost a mirror image of some 1980's Eastern European Bloc airport.
Last edited by onyxcrowle; 17th Oct 2013 at 11:01.
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The DSA business model, as tested in the public inquiry in 2003, was to poach the vast majority of their passengers from Manchester, Leeds-Bradford and Humberside. They grew in the first two years and it's been downhill ever since. It was always a shaky business model. It started to fail before the downturn.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yet as EMA, MAN and LBA have all increased DSA has continued a decline in recent years. Is this decline really because of the economic situation or more generally that the demand is actually not that great from the Doncaster area?
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Crowle United Kingdom
Age: 50
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Demand is there but the road links are awfull.
Perhaps extending the terminal to improve the whole concept. Give passengers a decent experience.
At the moment its austere and seems to belong to another age.
Id bet with one of the two extensions done. Expand retail. Improve security and Have more check in desks.
An express bus from the train station in town.
It might just attract airlines.
Outside looks untidy that building definitely needs an overhaul.
And perhaps a couple of jetways . That should please some carriers.
And make more apron space and gates.
That might show airlines they are serious and start coming to Dsa.
All we can hope is MOL gives us some routes.
Or Perhaps AC Rouge. That is operating from smaller airports so might work here as we used to have Torronto
Perhaps extending the terminal to improve the whole concept. Give passengers a decent experience.
At the moment its austere and seems to belong to another age.
Id bet with one of the two extensions done. Expand retail. Improve security and Have more check in desks.
An express bus from the train station in town.
It might just attract airlines.
Outside looks untidy that building definitely needs an overhaul.
And perhaps a couple of jetways . That should please some carriers.
And make more apron space and gates.
That might show airlines they are serious and start coming to Dsa.
All we can hope is MOL gives us some routes.
Or Perhaps AC Rouge. That is operating from smaller airports so might work here as we used to have Torronto
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But all that costs money! The losses must be mounting up and the initial development costs plus the grants probably have never been recouped. Is it a sound investment to pour money into something which so far hasn't exactly inspired confidence?
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 1,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Demand is there but the road links are awfull
The reality is there is limited demand due to many factors, non of which I suspect are due to road access.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 1/2 a mile to the right of 14 top end of Yeadon
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Demand is there but the road links are awfull.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: RSW & Europe
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
onyxcrowle, your wish that MOL would want to use DSA if the infrastructure was improved is not really an option. All Ryanair want is a field and a shed, a coffee machine would be a luxury.
Not sure if this is an omen but tried the DSA Forum just now and got the message
"This Account Has Been Suspended. Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible."
Not sure if this is an omen but tried the DSA Forum just now and got the message
"This Account Has Been Suspended. Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible."