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Plymspotter - Sorry but first came Westward Airways flying LGW/LHR/PLH/NQY/ISC - and probably others before but I am not THAT old - in any event first came the horse and cart so let's look ahead not back.
In my view, frequency ex NQY is very important to sustaining a service to London and you can't do that with a 130 seat aircraft, it would be better to have 6 flights a day on a 19 seat aircraft than one on a 130 seat, but of course you can't do that either to LGW as the slots / costs would prohibit it. So NQY is in a bit of a catch 22 situation.
In an ideal World there would be a little commuter airport next to Gatwick, like Redhill with an adjacent station serving Gatwick and central London and fees low enough to make it all economic.
If there was an easy answer it would have been found, there isn't - suggestions on the back of an envelope.....
In my view, frequency ex NQY is very important to sustaining a service to London and you can't do that with a 130 seat aircraft, it would be better to have 6 flights a day on a 19 seat aircraft than one on a 130 seat, but of course you can't do that either to LGW as the slots / costs would prohibit it. So NQY is in a bit of a catch 22 situation.
In an ideal World there would be a little commuter airport next to Gatwick, like Redhill with an adjacent station serving Gatwick and central London and fees low enough to make it all economic.
If there was an easy answer it would have been found, there isn't - suggestions on the back of an envelope.....
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Phileas - First came PLH-NQY-LGW which was the reason for their inception, then BRS, MAN and JER were launched from PLH alone. More routes via NQY came later.
On a scale from 1 to 10 how many passengers do you figure wanted to pay for air travel PLH/BRS and/or BRS/PLH?
Wasn't the PLH/BRS/PLH sectors just another buggeration factor denying the PLH punters a direct route to/from, was it, LBA and/or NCL and/or Scotland whereas, rather than NQY, this time ASW were dropping in to BRS to pick up/drop off punters en-route to/from the north?
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- Phileas
Bristol was actually reasonably useful if you were flying onward out of Bristol and didn't want to drive, I'm sure it wasn't profitable later in its life, but it still saw a smattering of passengers.
The reason it existed as a stop however was to serve BRS-MAN (3 daily) and BRS-PLH-JER (daily). This was back when Bristol to Manchester by train meant a change in New Street and took 4-5 hours. Once trains became direct, frequent and faster the demand for flights fell away.
The scissors hub in Bristol came later. On routes like that people didn't mind the stop though, not when the alternative was a long time on a train or driving to Exeter
Bristol was actually reasonably useful if you were flying onward out of Bristol and didn't want to drive, I'm sure it wasn't profitable later in its life, but it still saw a smattering of passengers.
The reason it existed as a stop however was to serve BRS-MAN (3 daily) and BRS-PLH-JER (daily). This was back when Bristol to Manchester by train meant a change in New Street and took 4-5 hours. Once trains became direct, frequent and faster the demand for flights fell away.
The scissors hub in Bristol came later. On routes like that people didn't mind the stop though, not when the alternative was a long time on a train or driving to Exeter
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Thanks Phileas....
Approaching LHR one day with a Tristar in front and a 747 behind, " Westward 18 increase your speed to 180 knots" reply " Christ man I am going as fast as I can!"
Sorry for the thread drift....
Wait for the second runway or maybe an Otter float plane and land on Ardingly Reservoir, take off may be a problem though when the surf is up!
Approaching LHR one day with a Tristar in front and a 747 behind, " Westward 18 increase your speed to 180 knots" reply " Christ man I am going as fast as I can!"
Sorry for the thread drift....
Wait for the second runway or maybe an Otter float plane and land on Ardingly Reservoir, take off may be a problem though when the surf is up!
Last edited by GROUNDHOG; 16th May 2013 at 17:09.
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This maybe a Newquay thread but a contributing factor to NQY struggling is the closure of PLH and Airsouthwest. When it was announced that PLH was closing there were people in Newquay rubbing their hands together thinking that Airsouthwest would just move down to NQY despite plenty of people warning them it would not be good for NQY in the long term. NQY and PLH needed each other for most of the scheduled routes as there was just not the population and demand for them to make it work on their own.
NQY management jumped into bed with Flybe too quickly and it looks like they are going to pay for it now. You reap what you sew guys
There needs to be a reality check here.
The chances of PLH opening again are pretty much zilch as PCC are not interested and just play lip service to the viable group.
The chances of a Heathrow link again are zilch.
The best the Newquay can hope for is a link to Southend if they are lucky.
They must be losing hand over fist and have been for a while from what i understand
NQY management jumped into bed with Flybe too quickly and it looks like they are going to pay for it now. You reap what you sew guys
There needs to be a reality check here.
The chances of PLH opening again are pretty much zilch as PCC are not interested and just play lip service to the viable group.
The chances of a Heathrow link again are zilch.
The best the Newquay can hope for is a link to Southend if they are lucky.
They must be losing hand over fist and have been for a while from what i understand
Last edited by trafficnotsighted; 16th May 2013 at 22:09.
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NQY and PLH needed each other for most of the scheduled routes as there was just not the population and demand for them to make it work on their own.
If you're suggesting that NQY & PLH needed each other for most of the scheduled routes just to endeavour to fill 50 seats at a time then you are on the wrong track.
50 seater aircraft are too large for the Devon & Cornwall market, the market needs similar sized aircraft to 20 and 35 seats, that's what bought ASW down, they were following the same mistake as those before them, if people want to fly from Plymouth to London they don't want to go via Newquay when doing so, the routes were only supposed to be combined for one season but remained combined for 30 years!
That said, with only one airport on the Devon & Cornwall peninsula it's going to be difficult for any new air operation to make something work. NQY, by itself, can only justify utilising 1 or 2 aircraft (dependant upon size) and 1 or 2 aircraft doesn't make for an airline, throw PLH in to the melting pot then there's perhaps a market for 3 or 4 or 5 aircraft.
Without PLH then NQY is out on it's own down there and perhaps it's only hope may be if, such as British Midland in the 1970's, an operator from another part of UK or Europe may decide to operate a route or few ... Stranger things have happened, just look at Oxford/Kidlington!
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Phileas - The plan from your era may have been combined for one season but in the latter days of BA and ASW's time it was seen as the only way. Yes people do not want to ideally fly via NQY/PLH but based on the population and demand it was a compromise that joe public was willing to put up with to be able to fly into the region.
Oxford is yet to show that scheduled flights are viable but give them 10/10 for giving it a go.
I
Oxford is yet to show that scheduled flights are viable but give them 10/10 for giving it a go.
I
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it was a compromise that joe public was willing to put up with
in the latter days of BA and ASW's time it was seen as the only way
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Quote
This maybe a Newquay thread but a contributing factor to NQY struggling is the closure of PLH and Airsouthwest. When it was announced that PLH was closing there were people in Newquay rubbing their hands together thinking that Airsouthwest would just move down to NQY despite plenty of people warning them it would not be good for NQY in the long term. NQY and PLH needed each other for most of the scheduled routes as there was just not the population and demand for them to make it work on their own.
NQY management jumped into bed with Flybe too quickly and it looks like they are going to pay for it now. You reap what you sew guys
There needs to be a reality check here.
The chances of PLH opening again are pretty much zilch as PCC are not interested and just play lip service to the viable group.
The chances of a Heathrow link again are zilch.
The best the Newquay can hope for is a link to Southend if they are lucky.
They must be losing hand over fist and have been for a while from what i understand
Spot on traffic
This maybe a Newquay thread but a contributing factor to NQY struggling is the closure of PLH and Airsouthwest. When it was announced that PLH was closing there were people in Newquay rubbing their hands together thinking that Airsouthwest would just move down to NQY despite plenty of people warning them it would not be good for NQY in the long term. NQY and PLH needed each other for most of the scheduled routes as there was just not the population and demand for them to make it work on their own.
NQY management jumped into bed with Flybe too quickly and it looks like they are going to pay for it now. You reap what you sew guys
There needs to be a reality check here.
The chances of PLH opening again are pretty much zilch as PCC are not interested and just play lip service to the viable group.
The chances of a Heathrow link again are zilch.
The best the Newquay can hope for is a link to Southend if they are lucky.
They must be losing hand over fist and have been for a while from what i understand
Spot on traffic
Last edited by devonish; 17th May 2013 at 07:49.
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Of course the airport is losing money hand over fist, but credit to the current management team for attracting outside interests to add to its revenue stream. It will never make money from passenger revenue alone. It needs to be a big industrial estate with a few flights alongside!
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That will be the same management team who were part of or connected to the consultants who made a mess of the transition of changing over to a civil airport to such an extent the CAA would not let them open when they wanted to. They also spent a lot more money on doing it than they had to ,the Airport Fire department being an example. This in turn also meant it opened with running costs that required them to have an income that was totally unrealistic for its catchement area.
One member of the Management team spent 2 years restricting salaries that meant many proffessionals turned down job offers for when it opened. It was a good job they did not have too many flights as they did not have the staff to deal with it. The same person then gave himself a £50,000 pay rise.
The region was better served aviation wise when it was an RAF base. Good connections without all the costs.
One member of the Management team spent 2 years restricting salaries that meant many proffessionals turned down job offers for when it opened. It was a good job they did not have too many flights as they did not have the staff to deal with it. The same person then gave himself a £50,000 pay rise.
The region was better served aviation wise when it was an RAF base. Good connections without all the costs.
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As an enthusiastic Newquay Watcher, the current lack of traffic and ongoing operating losses is a depressing scenario. If memory serves me correctly the airport is losing something over £3 million a year at a time when Cornwall Council has already had to implement cuts in services overall of £170 million with plenty more to come it seems. I'm inclined to agree with comments here that industrial use at the airport is required but these things invariably take time - perhaps more time than might be deemed necessary if Cornwall Council are involved.
As a Cornishman I want to see the airport succeed. Hope springs eternal........
As a Cornishman I want to see the airport succeed. Hope springs eternal........
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Various posts here are spot on.
For NQY to survive as an airport, they need to develop the "other"new ventures.
So far im quite happy (as a council tax payer) that this is taking place.
Various MOD aircraft use the airfield.
AgustaWestland operate a SAR training facility.
Bristows are about to build a new SAR base
Classic airforce have recently opened
Apple aviation are in the process of setting up a MRO facility
Commercial flights are nice, but they are not the main thing that CCC/NQY should be chasing for NQY.
NQY has a vast runway, plenty of space which is ideally suited for all sorts of aviation related companies.
cs
For NQY to survive as an airport, they need to develop the "other"new ventures.
So far im quite happy (as a council tax payer) that this is taking place.
Various MOD aircraft use the airfield.
AgustaWestland operate a SAR training facility.
Bristows are about to build a new SAR base
Classic airforce have recently opened
Apple aviation are in the process of setting up a MRO facility
Commercial flights are nice, but they are not the main thing that CCC/NQY should be chasing for NQY.
NQY has a vast runway, plenty of space which is ideally suited for all sorts of aviation related companies.
cs
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Originally Posted by cornishsimon
Commercial flights are nice, but they are not the main thing that CCC/NQY should be chasing for NQY.
Last edited by ajamieson; 20th May 2013 at 07:04.
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Cornishsimon is spot on, as another Cornish ratepayer I have to say that the jobs created and the income provided by these additional activities are far more important than any 'potential' from a larger air network.
Of course air routes must be maintained but further development will always be severely restricted until more industry is located in the area to provide the passengers.
Its the age old story you need the passengers before you need the flashy planes and glamorous airport buildings.
Of course air routes must be maintained but further development will always be severely restricted until more industry is located in the area to provide the passengers.
Its the age old story you need the passengers before you need the flashy planes and glamorous airport buildings.
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CAA NQY stats 2012
Just curious here, where does the information that the CAA report actually come from ?
Take for example:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...ments_2012.pdf
which is the 2012 aircraft movement stats
now unless im not reading this information correctly, which is entirely possible, but it very much looks like the figures state that NQY didn't handle a single military flight, likewise aero club, private, official or business flights.
now I cant comment about the others but im 100% certain that this is not correct for the military flights.
so, where do these figures come from, am I reading it correctly or am I wrong ?
cs
Take for example:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...ments_2012.pdf
which is the 2012 aircraft movement stats
now unless im not reading this information correctly, which is entirely possible, but it very much looks like the figures state that NQY didn't handle a single military flight, likewise aero club, private, official or business flights.
now I cant comment about the others but im 100% certain that this is not correct for the military flights.
so, where do these figures come from, am I reading it correctly or am I wrong ?
cs