BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)
Join Date: Jun 2011
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LHR Figures
LHR is in a slow but steady irreversable decline and will be dealt a further blow by the DUB summer schedule.
There will then be approx 30,000 seats per month TO the major UAE hubs.
I used this option recently going to SE Asia and it worked well, also avoiding an overnight in London.
That said BA/EI will continue to compete from BHD and as consumers we should welcome the competition.
There may well be a reduction in frequency but if BA/EI management can agree a complementry schedule and flexible ticket arrangement then the future will be assured.
Against this background the failure of BFS to attract Emirates/Etihad is underlined as a major strategic failure and continues to have a negative impact on employment in the North of Ireland.
There will then be approx 30,000 seats per month TO the major UAE hubs.
I used this option recently going to SE Asia and it worked well, also avoiding an overnight in London.
That said BA/EI will continue to compete from BHD and as consumers we should welcome the competition.
There may well be a reduction in frequency but if BA/EI management can agree a complementry schedule and flexible ticket arrangement then the future will be assured.
Against this background the failure of BFS to attract Emirates/Etihad is underlined as a major strategic failure and continues to have a negative impact on employment in the North of Ireland.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Just my thoughts on some of the comments above...
1/ Bargain basement fares ? The £29 fare that used to be available on Bmi has disappeared ,the lowest I have seen is £37 and this is ex Bhd only due to the airport charging system.THis is comparable with the leadin fares on other Ba domestics and the fares get substantially higher when you get closer to dep.
2/ The 0635 dep on a Sun morning is too early for point to point ,only of use to connectors so will never be busy apart from some dates in peak summer. I presume it's a daily arrival slot at LHR , so they have to op on Sun as well and they want to get the a/c into the system at LHR rather than have it sit on the ground at BHD.
3/There are lots of cabin crew and pilots who live in N.I. but they are based at LHR as there is no crew base in Belfast ,so all crew operating will have originated the trip in LHR even if they happen to be from N.I.
4/The winter schedule with 2 nightstops on some days ends this weekend.
The winter schedule was a bit of a hotchpotch ,utilising odd unused slots acquired from BMI.Some of these will be in the package of slots handed over to Virgin Little Red to op Abz,Edi so the summer schedule is smaller and more regular.There are 6 flights a day M-TH, 7 FRI and 5 Sa/Su and only 1 nightstop.
5/Incidentally , one nightstop will still require 2 crews overnighting in Belfast each night as the crew operating that last LHR/BHD cannot op the first BHD/LHR the next day due to crew rest requirements.
6/Using a larger aircraft at lower frequency would actually increase the number of crew overnighting as there are more cabin crew on each flight . The reduced frequency would be less attractive to the targeted business traveller and less competitive against EI. The larger aircraft would also have to be taken off another BA route where it can probably make more money for BA.
1/ Bargain basement fares ? The £29 fare that used to be available on Bmi has disappeared ,the lowest I have seen is £37 and this is ex Bhd only due to the airport charging system.THis is comparable with the leadin fares on other Ba domestics and the fares get substantially higher when you get closer to dep.
2/ The 0635 dep on a Sun morning is too early for point to point ,only of use to connectors so will never be busy apart from some dates in peak summer. I presume it's a daily arrival slot at LHR , so they have to op on Sun as well and they want to get the a/c into the system at LHR rather than have it sit on the ground at BHD.
3/There are lots of cabin crew and pilots who live in N.I. but they are based at LHR as there is no crew base in Belfast ,so all crew operating will have originated the trip in LHR even if they happen to be from N.I.
4/The winter schedule with 2 nightstops on some days ends this weekend.
The winter schedule was a bit of a hotchpotch ,utilising odd unused slots acquired from BMI.Some of these will be in the package of slots handed over to Virgin Little Red to op Abz,Edi so the summer schedule is smaller and more regular.There are 6 flights a day M-TH, 7 FRI and 5 Sa/Su and only 1 nightstop.
5/Incidentally , one nightstop will still require 2 crews overnighting in Belfast each night as the crew operating that last LHR/BHD cannot op the first BHD/LHR the next day due to crew rest requirements.
6/Using a larger aircraft at lower frequency would actually increase the number of crew overnighting as there are more cabin crew on each flight . The reduced frequency would be less attractive to the targeted business traveller and less competitive against EI. The larger aircraft would also have to be taken off another BA route where it can probably make more money for BA.
Join Date: Jan 2012
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My comment about bargain basement fares yesterday was referring to today's fares and yes two of the flights haven't even got off the £37 lead in fare. Several others weren't much better. Would be interesting to see the loads this morning.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Today is a Bank holiday , no business traffic and the Vfr traffic is predominantly inbound to Bhd. look at the fares on Mon 01Apr when that traffic is returning home to LHR. not representative of a typical Friday.
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With two early flights from BHD and six crew per flight that's twelve rooms X 364 days per year!!!!
As previously suggested move up to BFS and use larger aircraft and reduce frequency slightly
As previously suggested move up to BFS and use larger aircraft and reduce frequency slightly
Which larger aircraft would you suggest? BHD can already handle an A321 which in BA config have 188 seats. BA are already short on B767's as evidenced recently by their constant reliance on leasing from Titan.
They can increase capacity and reduce frequency at BHD if they can find some spare A321's to do so.
AC
Last edited by EGAC is Better; 29th Mar 2013 at 14:15.
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I have attached the link to the ACL report for S13. In it you will see the number of seats on sale between Lgw and Belfast(both) for this summer. Seat numbers will increase from 443k to 702k, about a 60% increase. I suspect the bigger part of this capacity increase is out of BHD. Either there will have to be massive growth to Lgw out of NI or someone will be taking a real hit on profitability.
http://www.acl-uk.org/UserFiles/File...n%20Report.pdf
TB
http://www.acl-uk.org/UserFiles/File...n%20Report.pdf
TB
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Very interesting stats true blue. Looking at caa stats in that EZY appear to be holding their own on LGW (I think less than 1 K drop per month) I feel the hit must be at BHD. Maybe someone with inside knowledge can advise
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Aer Lingus starting BHD-LGW was always a strange decision, it has never been an airport that has worked well for them apart from the DUB service and the token daily to NOC. The likes of SNN and ORK were tried and failed so what made them think BHD-LGW could work?! It made even less sense when they claimed the move was aimed at improving yields and tapping into the business market.
Now I don't believe for a second that LGW is the make or break route for the BHD base, I actually think that's quite an exaggeration as it's working on the assumption that EI aren't going to continue some of the summer routes year round or even add routes for winter which will require that second aircraft. A BHD base focused on LHR along with popular European routes in both winter and summer is fine, I'm sure EI would prefer BA to clear off but they are well to compete with them, what they aren't able to complete with to London is the combined effect of BA, BE and themselves (LGW vs LHR) not to mention U2 up the road.
Now I'm sure there's a few hoping that EI deeply regret moving to BHD and come running back to BFS but it's not going to happen and while I agree that LGW is a mistake, the BHD base overall may yet prove to be a wise move by EI especially if the sun routes prove as popular as early indications suggest. There is just no future in chasing LGW unless BE suddenly throw in the towel which is possible but not worth wasting too much time and money waiting for.
Now I don't believe for a second that LGW is the make or break route for the BHD base, I actually think that's quite an exaggeration as it's working on the assumption that EI aren't going to continue some of the summer routes year round or even add routes for winter which will require that second aircraft. A BHD base focused on LHR along with popular European routes in both winter and summer is fine, I'm sure EI would prefer BA to clear off but they are well to compete with them, what they aren't able to complete with to London is the combined effect of BA, BE and themselves (LGW vs LHR) not to mention U2 up the road.
Now I'm sure there's a few hoping that EI deeply regret moving to BHD and come running back to BFS but it's not going to happen and while I agree that LGW is a mistake, the BHD base overall may yet prove to be a wise move by EI especially if the sun routes prove as popular as early indications suggest. There is just no future in chasing LGW unless BE suddenly throw in the towel which is possible but not worth wasting too much time and money waiting for.
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Good comments Shamrock
Difficulty I see is that with operating LGW from BHD (90 flights) per month there is naturally a oversupply on the London market. Figures for LHR were they compete with BA are down compared to the previous year (exceptDec)
Sun routes will always do well in July and August, but the summer season starts late March to late October so outside the peak months it may be difficult to achieve yields and LF
In peak season BFS has 16 flights to Palma and BHD has 2 with EI.
During their venture into NI, whether at BFS or BHD I feel they have not analysised the market. Started in BFS with two daily flights to AMS, reduced then to one with the other flight to CDG.....both dropped. Budapest dropped, Rome dropped, Milan dropped, Munich dropped....the list goes on.
I, like others would be very interested on their yields to LGW at BHD. Personally I cannot see them as being good.
Although they probably have a good deal at BHD at the moment they will probably fine that in the long run they made a mistake.....yet again
Difficulty I see is that with operating LGW from BHD (90 flights) per month there is naturally a oversupply on the London market. Figures for LHR were they compete with BA are down compared to the previous year (exceptDec)
Sun routes will always do well in July and August, but the summer season starts late March to late October so outside the peak months it may be difficult to achieve yields and LF
In peak season BFS has 16 flights to Palma and BHD has 2 with EI.
During their venture into NI, whether at BFS or BHD I feel they have not analysised the market. Started in BFS with two daily flights to AMS, reduced then to one with the other flight to CDG.....both dropped. Budapest dropped, Rome dropped, Milan dropped, Munich dropped....the list goes on.
I, like others would be very interested on their yields to LGW at BHD. Personally I cannot see them as being good.
Although they probably have a good deal at BHD at the moment they will probably fine that in the long run they made a mistake.....yet again
Last edited by GAZMO; 29th Mar 2013 at 23:39.
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Difficulty I see is that with operating LGW from BHD (90 flights) per month there is naturally a oversupply on the London market. Figures for LHR were they compete with BA are down compared to the previous year (exceptDec)
In order to compare like for like LHR numbers completely though, it needs to be from April onwards so we still have quite a wait for those.
I, like others would be very interested on their yields to LGW at BHD. Personally I cannot see them as being good.
During their venture into NI, whether at BFS or BHD I feel they have not analysised the market. Started in BFS with two daily flights to AMS, reduced then to one with the other flight to CDG.....both dropped. Budapest dropped, Rome dropped, Milan dropped, Munich dropped....the list goes on.
Although they probably have a good deal at BHD at the moment they will probably fine that in the long run they made a mistake.....yet again
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Again good comments
I did use the Budapest service once at Easter time and LF were good(Easter of course), likewise tried Milan and only 15pax
Regarding fares on sun routes all airlines will have high prices for summer months, but Sept and Oct?
I did use FAO twice last last for business, great to fly out Monday morning at 6.40 with EI and return late flight Wednesday with EZY to the same airport
This year I'm afraid it will be EZY to FAO for my two business trips.
Wonder if EI looked at the number of single flights booked with them on overlapping routes with EZY. Although majority of pax book return flights with same airline, some business pax book outward with one and return with another.
Maybe I am an exception
I did use the Budapest service once at Easter time and LF were good(Easter of course), likewise tried Milan and only 15pax
Regarding fares on sun routes all airlines will have high prices for summer months, but Sept and Oct?
I did use FAO twice last last for business, great to fly out Monday morning at 6.40 with EI and return late flight Wednesday with EZY to the same airport
This year I'm afraid it will be EZY to FAO for my two business trips.
Wonder if EI looked at the number of single flights booked with them on overlapping routes with EZY. Although majority of pax book return flights with same airline, some business pax book outward with one and return with another.
Maybe I am an exception
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Travelled lhr-bhd this morn on ba- about 50% full (looking at the lhr- dub flight boarding even fewer) and this is easter weekend (though admittedly no business travellers) surely this is not sustainable; who will break first? BA or EI?
Last edited by dpconlan2011; 30th Mar 2013 at 15:53.
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Travelled lhr-bhd this morn on ba- about 50% full (looking at the lhr- dub flight boarding even fewer) and this is easter weekend (though admittedly no business travellers) surely this is not sustainable; who will break first? BA or EI?
