BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)

[BHD2BFS]

Really don't believe they will drop European routes, especially since their canary routes are doing so well, even moving to BHD seems very drastic, they have worked hard to have a base at BFS, there is definitely no space for competition on LGW route

[virginblue]

There is a TUI subsidiary (Wolters) which specializes on UK and Ireland and if I am not mistaken this tour operator takes up a lot of the capacity on seasonal Lufthansa flights from DUS to the Channel Islands, Scotland and Cornwall. If I am not mistaken, there is also DUS-Knock on offer for the first time this season. I agree that Belfast would be a bigger challenge to establish, but generally, German tourists tend to travel around, so the gateway is not that important. If I am not mixing things up, boat tourism around Enniskillen is a factor as well.

[irishlad06]

Sarcon, any proof of this yet r is it still just rumours

[sarcon]

There's no room or need for competition on any of the domestic routes they are planning. AL wants to drive Flybe out of the market and think they can do it, the bit I find hardest to believe is that the airport are allowing this to happen after all these years of support. Ah well, business is business.

[tigger2k8]

It has been one of the rumors that has floated around, and with the way management has treated BE over the last few years it honestly would not surprise me.. i am surprised that EI would give up their ACE and TFS routes though, my money is on EZY putting an A320 in BFS next year to run these or at least one.

Its a gamble for EI if its true... moving a base and competing with an already well established airline on domestic routes cant be an easy task to perform..

How many flights per day are they planning? EDI/LHR/LGW are all reasonably short sectors... in my eyes that would increase capacity too much resulting in over-capacity come winter time..

If this is true, im sure BE could re-deploy their aircraft to other airports.. im sure this would push their relationship with BHD to tipping point

[EI-BUD]

There's no room or need for competition on any of the domestic routes they are planning. AL wants to drive Flybe out of the market and think they can do it, the bit I find hardest to believe is that the airport are allowing this to happen after all these years of support. Ah well, business is business.

If EI are planning a large scale attack on Flybe they wont be in the province for long. If this is true BA must be withdrawing from LHR as I have expected. Though there is no substantial info to support this out there.

The time it takes to establish themselves and get people out of the habit of booking BE at BHD will cost Aer Lingus and more importantly Aer Lingus Regional their shirt (massive cash down the drain RE cant afford it). It might work in Dublin to join say DUBBRS (and no info to suggest this route is making money for Arann) against FR and win a lot of business, but dont forget that the route will have the comfort of interlining passengers enroute to/from USA.

This hasnt a hope. Getting onto LGW is suicidal, as is MAN as BE will step up frequency to what ever needed and they simply wont sit back and take it.

Rest assured if BHD find the only way to grow traffic is to erode Flybe's, they will see reprecussions. Watch BE scale back other routes and mitigate any increase in passengers. In the long run this will cost BHD....


LHR would work for EI but the others, crazy.

EI-BUD

[redED]

The bit I find hardest to believe is that the airport are allowing this to happen after all these years of support. Ah well, business is business.

It certainly isn't the first time and I doubt it'll be the last. BHD are always ****ting on flybe.

[EI-BUD]

BE are good at being in a strong bargaining position with airports; e.g. Exeter, Southampton, Newquay, IOM....

If the rumours are true on here about BHD trying to flex its muscle with BE, on the basis that they are so confident BE would never move routes to BFS, they are foolish. There are a selection of routes that BE could move that would be most unlikely to attract a replacement at BHD examples include:

• Winter Ski including routes to :Geneva, Grenoble, Salzburg (could facilitate longer flying days in strong ski season)
• Leeds/Bradford: really challenge Jet2 (who is seeing declineBFSLBA)
• Inverness (daily route)
• Aberdeen (daily route)
• Newquay (low volume but still a destination on BHD's map)
• Jersey (low volume but still a destination on BHD's map)

Almost all of these could attract a good discount from BFS. I think that BE surely must have looked at some operations from BFS if for no other reason but for leverage. It would make sounds commercial sense.

EI-BUD

[ALLMCC]

BHD are in a somewhat difficult position now. WW's on time performance was excellent during their relatively short tenure at BHD and certainly better than Flybe's otp which is, at best, average and often poor.

The current 'all eggs in one basket' scenario now with Flybe is potentially risky and, if there was some sort of fallout, could pose a serious situation so BHD's desire to attract other airlines is understandable.

Will be interesting to see how this pans out in the coming weeks/months.

[mart901]

trouble is its catch 22 for BHD because if they leave BE as virtualy the sole operator they have the airport almost to ransom and are not exactly a low fare carrier on many of their routes and are making no real attempt to move into any routes other than domestic. Also its fair to say they are used to competition and have been through FR in only recent times which must be more of a nose bleed. It would seem odd however if EIR we're to give up things like SNN to facilitate it given the lack of competition they enjoy.

[eastern wiseguy]

Winter Ski including routes to :Geneva, Grenoble, Salzburg (could facilitate longer flying days in strong ski season)
Leeds/Bradford: really challenge Jet2 (who is seeing declineBFSLBA)
Inverness (daily route)
Aberdeen (daily route)
Newquay (low volume but still a destination on BHD's map)
Jersey (low volume but still a destination on BHD's map)

The key here is the lack of competition with EasyJet. That would be a happy state of affairs for both Flybe and BFS.

Flybe did go so far as to have a ticket desk at BFS in preparation for a move in the Air Belfast days......so they HAVE thought about it in the past.

[Belboy]

If the rumoured relocation and domestic route development does in fact happen, is it purely for commercial reasons, can the deal from BHD really make that much difference to the airlines costs or is it that they think the market from BHD is different to the market at Aldergrove. I think that Flybe will be every bit as difficult a competitor as Easyjet, maybe more so on their home turf with the loyal following they have. I also looked back at a statement in the Newsletter in November 2009 when Christoph Muller said," We will concentrate our operations at BIA and will develop them further. The short runway and the night time curfew are significant constraints for BCA. More restrictions exist there than
opportunities all the advantages lie with BIA". What's changed Christoph?

[CCR]

Maybe what will happen is that Aer Lingus Regional will base some ATR's at BHD and Aer Lingus will operate the LHR route in due course.
Then again if BHD have made an offer that EI can't refuse, maybe they will base their jets at BHD and still maintain their profitable longer haul routes to sun destinations from BFS like the Canaries via W routes from BHD. They sometimes do this to other airports in close proximity like Cork and Shannon.

[AIRPORT66]

AIRPORT66

Obvious what game Ambrose is playing here push BE out of some key routes out of Bhd get EI established on these routes then they can concentrate on these sunshine routes he keeps buming on about Flybe have made it quite straight they are not interested in european destinations so get an airline in who does for the head of Aerlingus he wasnt long changing his mind about BHD.

[Jack1985]

Then again if BHD have made an offer that EI can't refuse, maybe they will base their jets at BHD and still maintain their profitable longer haul routes to sun destinations from BFS like the Canaries via W routes from BHD. They sometimes do this to other airports in close proximity like Cork and Shannon.

Errm common sense should prevail here, Aer Lingus w-routes are rare and short sectors e.g. DUB-GVA-ORK-GVA-DUB or DUB-AGP-ORK-AGP-DUB. W-routes to the Canaries will not work and no crews could service the return and this is not just to do with EU restrictions on crew hours but also to do with Aer Lingus unions you'll notice turnaround times from the ROI to the Canaries are 1hr min from the North its relatively the standard time.

On the issue of Belfast City becoming a domestic base for Aer Lingus I would find this very surprising for the company and for me its risks the company shouldn't be taking although if the ''supposed'' deal is true it must be good for Aer Lingus to take such a gamble.

They weren't able to complete with easy on the European routes

This is total bull, Aer Lingus compete profitably during the Summer from Belfast Intl with its current route structure, its obvious its loss making (European routes) during the winter. Infact Aer Lingus expanded outside of easyJet's previous European route network between 2007-2009 in search for a niche for the carrier it didn't work, the market isn't there.

[SecondDog]

Bud

BE are good at being in a strong bargaining position with airports; e.g. Exeter, Southampton, Newquay, IOM....

If the rumours are true on here about BHD trying to flex its muscle with BE, on the basis that they are so confident BE would never move routes to BFS, they are foolish. There are a selection of routes that BE could move that would be most unlikely to attract a replacement at BHD examples include:

• Winter Ski including routes to :Geneva, Grenoble, Salzburg (could facilitate longer flying days in strong ski season)
• Leeds/Bradford: really challenge Jet2 (who is seeing declineBFSLBA)
• Inverness (daily route)
• Aberdeen (daily route)
• Newquay (low volume but still a destination on BHD's map)
• Jersey (low volume but still a destination on BHD's map)

Almost all of these could attract a good discount from BFS. I think that BE surely must have looked at some operations from BFS if for no other reason but for leverage. It would make sounds commercial sense.

EI-BUD

I think it even got to the stage last time BE wanted to improve their deal, that they scheduled meetings with BFS and a couple of executives were telephoned prior to the meetings and offered the BHD's standard 3 years free in order to stave off the chance of losing them.

If all this malarky is true about EIR/Arann at BHD, I think the Executives at Aldergrove will jump at the BE to try and get them up the road.

On a personal note however, I think cessation of EI @ BFS seems highly unlikely.

[mart901]

What exactly is the rumour based on? There has been talk for ages of EIR entering the Belfast market and it began with them replacing WW routes from BFS last year. I could see BE threatening to move if it happened but in fairness their competitive advantage has always been high frequency across the regions flying right into the city centre. Why would anyone pay more for the priviledge of flying with them into bFS than with say EZY unless it was a timings issue. It would then leave the commuter regional routes right in EIR's hands. BE have faced competition in the market for yrs and are used to it. They have sat on the EMA and BHX routes with WW offering £19 o/w fares for ages and not budged, a lot longer than I thought they would. I can't see them keeling over somehow.

[tigger2k8]

The rumors are based on the following:

1. Its known that BHD has approached EI on launching routes from BHD
2. EI has only released BFS-LHR on their schedule

The above are the only 2 reasons we have so many rumors, as there have been a lot of Chinese whispers adding bits in, which eventually get to here
I guess time will tell

[EI-BUD]

tigger2k8, I think you sum it up well there, that's all that is known all else is speculation, however, as per my original thought on the subject, BA may exit, and a deal be done with EI on BHD LHR for say a 4 x daily 319. Feed for BA long haul network.
Keep the other 2 units at BFS to include 3 daily LHR on 320 and then the 2nd 319 for European routes. Much like last winter less Rome. (though ALC will be even more tough than LY as Easy now doing evening more convenient timings than last year).

BA keeping BFS and DUB at T1, EDI AND ABZ routes where some frequency must move to competition fromLHR has not been settled. My feeling is EI are in the mix and I read recently where CM said that EI will remain committed to ROI and NI business (think he actually said on the Island of Ireland, so I interpret from that he means more than the republic i.e. inc Belfast), he also said that other domestic UK opportunities would be considered, I take that to mean LHR EDI and ABZ though it could mean BHD...

Still shocking that EI havent launched winter timetable for BFS.
Perhaps if EI are in the fold to do BHD LHR, BHD have their ear to negotiate, ie relationship. I couldnt see EI axing TFS and ACE the loads can be fantastic and the fares never look too low...

EI-BUD

[mart901]

Anyone know how well LPA has done? Another possible winter destination. As I've said before BFS is not the only winter timetable not yet available.