BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mart01, I was responding to your comment
You can see why EI want to move when more than twice as many pax fly to LHR
from BHD than BFS
AerLingus could also be using 320s on ALL LHR BFS services and they could be doing x4 daily as per last year, but clearly the market is well served, and they see it prudent in a commercial sense not to take slots from ORK SNN and DUB to give to BFS. The loads are not as strong as Dublin based on CAA Stats on ORK SNN and DUB Routes (though DUB hard to work out as BD there, beside EI will be keeping DUB to the max to ensure they can react if BA/BD decide to withdraw, and BA's track record at DUB is awful LHR axed 91, LGW inherited from CityFlyer axed in the recession and LCY lasted months and was axed mid season)
The point you are alluding to is this: the airline is as relevant to the market as the airport pairs chosen and so to their marketing ability and reputation. I am firmly of the view any routes outside of LHR on the domestic front will be an absolute disaster. Firstly BE will be higher frequency with lower cost aircraft, will react to defend their patch.
EI is not established at all at BHD or on the domestic routes outside of LHR. Arrann will not be able to compete and have no point of difference and if it is to be the lowest price every time, that too is fruitless.
You can see why EI want to move when more than twice as many pax fly to LHR
from BHD than BFS
The point you are alluding to is this: the airline is as relevant to the market as the airport pairs chosen and so to their marketing ability and reputation. I am firmly of the view any routes outside of LHR on the domestic front will be an absolute disaster. Firstly BE will be higher frequency with lower cost aircraft, will react to defend their patch.
EI is not established at all at BHD or on the domestic routes outside of LHR. Arrann will not be able to compete and have no point of difference and if it is to be the lowest price every time, that too is fruitless.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ballymena
Posts: 1,438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I always thought from what is written on this forum that it was the location that was most important. Remember all those foreign tourists who will not come here if they can't fly into BHD? All those who can't travel up to Lough Neagh but find no problem driving down to Dublin. In fact, I'm surprised anyone uses Bfs it is so bad. Mart, if demand for Bhd is so great, why haven't Flybe put on their E195s at greater frequency to Edi, Gla etc? Why have they pulled off Lpl, twice I think, Brs and carry about 3k pax a month to Ncl? There is nothing to stop Flybe being able to carry every pax that wants to come from some of these airports into Bhd, why do you think they do not? How many times are we going to listen to the wonderful statements from Bhd about how good everything is there, as we watch airlines go, before we start to question, is all this spin true? Or does most people on here just believe every word they see/hear?
TB
TB
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sunny spain
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Read in the Belfast telegraph that mr Ambrose said that IF someone wanted to come and buy BHD to close it down and probably redevelop the sight ie BFS owners, they would have to pay 200million to buy it, correct me of I'm wrong but I dont even think the airport is worth half of that
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: home
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The reasoning behind this is Mr A persuaded ABN Amro to part with over £130 million a few years back (about three times what it was actually worth, even in the good old days of liberal credit and endless optimism) on the promise that they could dress it up and get out quickly with a nice little profit.
Now time has passed and a procession of airlines have been invited in at nil rates to make things look good in the desperate quest for a re-sale.
The 200 M is the original acquisition cost, plus the debts they have amassed against the operation - currently bringing the liability for the shareholder up to around £180 / £190 million - plus a few quid extra to try to justify the whole deal as a Silk Purse, and give management a wee bonus for doing such a good job. After all they are doing terribly well.
They might get 200 mil as well - but will probably have to find a benevolent sheikh who is convinced that it would be more entertaining to buy them out to sport himself than to buy a high profile football club.
Now time has passed and a procession of airlines have been invited in at nil rates to make things look good in the desperate quest for a re-sale.
The 200 M is the original acquisition cost, plus the debts they have amassed against the operation - currently bringing the liability for the shareholder up to around £180 / £190 million - plus a few quid extra to try to justify the whole deal as a Silk Purse, and give management a wee bonus for doing such a good job. After all they are doing terribly well.
They might get 200 mil as well - but will probably have to find a benevolent sheikh who is convinced that it would be more entertaining to buy them out to sport himself than to buy a high profile football club.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: co antrim
Age: 66
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dont know why everyones talking about LHR, sure EASYJETS SEN flights are sometimes carrying more passengers than EI LHR flights.Me thinks that a few politicians from the east(def not wise men) want to fly business class and not with us low costers,just my own thoughts.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Belfast
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AIRPORT66
All the surplus seats on the Ezy flights to London will be filled up the lose may not be that big in the long term Bfs has been her before will get through this and fight back,Some true facts stated here today well said guys.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Antrim
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not even going to engage in that load of self congratulatory drivel. I'm not biased one way or the other and am happy to use either Belfast airport depending on where I'm going, when, and the fares available. Why its not possible to accept that airlines will move airports without an almost sectarian, nasty outburst I will never know. I seem to remember WW having the same slating just over a year ago. It really is time people grew up and accepted there is 2 Belfast airports, there will be for the forseable future, and airlines will be tempted to move subject to deals available. Its just worth considering the time EI has been in business and how well they know the whole Irish aviation industry and how to work it in their favour. Being just about the only airline capable of competing with FR on home soil I think competing with BE will be well within their stride They are moving airport, or at least seem highly likely to be, get over it.
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being just about the only airline capable of competing with FR on home soil I think competing with BE will be well within their stride They are moving airport, or at least seem highly likely to be, get over it.
How about thinking outside your economic box and consider that there are people involved.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Antrim
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats a very vallid point but as nobody has mentioned that till now then it hasnt been a topic but on the other side of the coin business cannot run on that basis otherwise it will never get anywhere. When EZY arrived they will have driven others out too just as they have in the mainland uK market and jobs will have been lost and created. Its just business and attaching sentiment to everything doesnt help anyone in it. Being adaptable does.
Last edited by mart901; 16th Jun 2012 at 18:10.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holywood
Age: 50
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Right whats new? been mountain biking in Spain again and hanging out on PHPRNE. professional harbour
pilots rumor network. They are bitchin about the need for 3 ports on the east coast of NI and then the ones in Derry get upset as everyone forgets about them. Then ships change ports to better facilities closer to the people and then the locals complain that the ships kill the fish. Glad to be back on here. Proper head cases they are .
pilots rumor network. They are bitchin about the need for 3 ports on the east coast of NI and then the ones in Derry get upset as everyone forgets about them. Then ships change ports to better facilities closer to the people and then the locals complain that the ships kill the fish. Glad to be back on here. Proper head cases they are .
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast
Age: 60
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My comment was directed at the standard of local media...
I'm curious. What do you mean by this? The story reflects a very professional approach to work on the part of a journalist at the BBC's newsroom in Ormeau Avenue. He has done exactly what he is paid to do - develop a network of reliable contacts able to provide him with accurate information. He is also paid to pass this information on to the public in the form of news stories across 3 media platforms - television, radio and online. In this case he obviously has a contact in a position of seniority within the local aviation industry. The contact has given him the information, and he has passed it on.
There's no need for anyone to confirm the story. I'm sure he has interviews lined up for the day of the official announcement. Indeed, they may already be "in the can".
I'm curious. What do you mean by this? The story reflects a very professional approach to work on the part of a journalist at the BBC's newsroom in Ormeau Avenue. He has done exactly what he is paid to do - develop a network of reliable contacts able to provide him with accurate information. He is also paid to pass this information on to the public in the form of news stories across 3 media platforms - television, radio and online. In this case he obviously has a contact in a position of seniority within the local aviation industry. The contact has given him the information, and he has passed it on.
There's no need for anyone to confirm the story. I'm sure he has interviews lined up for the day of the official announcement. Indeed, they may already be "in the can".
Frequent Flyer, see post 544 on the Belfast Airport thread, to which I, and I believe Dog in Park, was referring to.
I am pretty sure Jim Fitzpatrick would not have broken this story were he not privy to some information from a source he considers to be reliable.
I am pretty sure Jim Fitzpatrick would not have broken this story were he not privy to some information from a source he considers to be reliable.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Antrim
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly. They will have planned for the eventuality of the press hearing first and maybe even staged it that way. However if you believed everyting you read on here then you would imagine bbc journalists sit looking at pprune and make stories up based upon it!
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was a time when BD was operating out of both Aldergrove and Harbour, circa 2002 IIRC.
Where a destination is served from both BFS and BHD (e.g. LHR), which airport is preferred? Suspect it all depends on where one lives, and how one accesses the airports.
It all boils down to convenience, price, timings, frequencies, etc., so it is subjective, there is no objective answer. In other words, it's the same debate as whether LHR, LCY, LGW, SEN, STN, LTN, etc. (or the road or the train) is "better".
Where possible and viable, the more choice the better.
Where a destination is served from both BFS and BHD (e.g. LHR), which airport is preferred? Suspect it all depends on where one lives, and how one accesses the airports.
It all boils down to convenience, price, timings, frequencies, etc., so it is subjective, there is no objective answer. In other words, it's the same debate as whether LHR, LCY, LGW, SEN, STN, LTN, etc. (or the road or the train) is "better".
Where possible and viable, the more choice the better.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 17th Jun 2012 at 00:00.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast
Age: 60
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chez FF to BHD by taxi - £5.50. Round trip £11.00.
Chez FF to BFS by taxi - £30.00. Round trip £60.00
Chez FF to BHD by bus - £1.80 for me (half fare as sleep apnoea claimed my driving licence six years ago) and £3.60 for Mrs. FF. Round trip £3.60 for me and £7.20 for Mrs. FF.
Chez FF to BFS by bus - £4.40 for me and £8.80 for Mrs. FF. Round trip £8.80 for me and £17.60 for Mrs. FF.
You've got to consider all these figures when looking for the fare which represents the best value for money. BHD normally wins hands down.
Chez FF to BFS by taxi - £30.00. Round trip £60.00
Chez FF to BHD by bus - £1.80 for me (half fare as sleep apnoea claimed my driving licence six years ago) and £3.60 for Mrs. FF. Round trip £3.60 for me and £7.20 for Mrs. FF.
Chez FF to BFS by bus - £4.40 for me and £8.80 for Mrs. FF. Round trip £8.80 for me and £17.60 for Mrs. FF.
You've got to consider all these figures when looking for the fare which represents the best value for money. BHD normally wins hands down.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote: "Chez FF to BHD by taxi - £5.50. Round trip £11.00.
Chez FF to BFS by taxi - £30.00. Round trip £60.00
Chez FF to BHD by bus - £1.80 for me (half fare as sleep apnoea claimed my driving licence six years ago) and £3.60 for Mrs. FF. Round trip £3.60 for me and £7.20 for Mrs. FF.
Chez FF to BFS by bus - £4.40 for me and £8.80 for Mrs. FF. Round trip £8.80 for me and £17.60 for Mrs. FF.
You've got to consider all these figures when looking for the fare which represents the best value for money. BHD normally wins hands down."
Exactly, for me, going to Belfast centre and flying from LHR1, BHD is also more convenient, but many using BHD/BFS will not be travelling to/from Belfast.
Horses for courses!
Chez FF to BFS by taxi - £30.00. Round trip £60.00
Chez FF to BHD by bus - £1.80 for me (half fare as sleep apnoea claimed my driving licence six years ago) and £3.60 for Mrs. FF. Round trip £3.60 for me and £7.20 for Mrs. FF.
Chez FF to BFS by bus - £4.40 for me and £8.80 for Mrs. FF. Round trip £8.80 for me and £17.60 for Mrs. FF.
You've got to consider all these figures when looking for the fare which represents the best value for money. BHD normally wins hands down."
Exactly, for me, going to Belfast centre and flying from LHR1, BHD is also more convenient, but many using BHD/BFS will not be travelling to/from Belfast.
Horses for courses!
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 17th Jun 2012 at 00:21.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast
Age: 60
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly, for me, going to Belfast centre and flying from LHR1, BHD is also more convenient, but many using BHD/BFS will not be travelling to/from Belfast.
Horses for courses!
I agree entirely - but BFS's main problem is its accessibility. Alright, there's a frequent bus service from the city centre but if you're travelling outside normal hours you have to queue up in Glengall Street in the p...ing rain until it arrives. Mrs. FF and I landed back from Faro at BFS a few weeks ago. We boarded the bus and were met with: "I hope youse have the right money for I have no change. If you haven't the right money you'll have to sit on to the Europa till I get change." For heaven's sake. There were people getting on to the bus from Amsterdam, Spain and other destinations in England. What a welcome. If you live in Ballymena or Ballymoney it's easier to get to BHD by public transport - train to Great Victoria Street followed by Metro 600 - than it is to get to Aldergrove. Is there a bus from Antrim rail station...I don't know? As I've said before, when the powers that be (or the powers that were) moved the civil airport from Nutts Corner, they looked at Long Kesh as a possible location. Perfect. About 10 miles south of Belfast City Centre and right beside both the motorway and rail line. Why they put it where they did I'll never know.
Horses for courses!
I agree entirely - but BFS's main problem is its accessibility. Alright, there's a frequent bus service from the city centre but if you're travelling outside normal hours you have to queue up in Glengall Street in the p...ing rain until it arrives. Mrs. FF and I landed back from Faro at BFS a few weeks ago. We boarded the bus and were met with: "I hope youse have the right money for I have no change. If you haven't the right money you'll have to sit on to the Europa till I get change." For heaven's sake. There were people getting on to the bus from Amsterdam, Spain and other destinations in England. What a welcome. If you live in Ballymena or Ballymoney it's easier to get to BHD by public transport - train to Great Victoria Street followed by Metro 600 - than it is to get to Aldergrove. Is there a bus from Antrim rail station...I don't know? As I've said before, when the powers that be (or the powers that were) moved the civil airport from Nutts Corner, they looked at Long Kesh as a possible location. Perfect. About 10 miles south of Belfast City Centre and right beside both the motorway and rail line. Why they put it where they did I'll never know.