BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)
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While both are commercial enterprises, if I remember correctly, did TBI want to buy BHD many moons ago with the intention to close it, and build a second terminal at BFS. This was then blocked by the Government. This may have been prior to the new terminal, just something makes me think this was on the cards at one time??
So if Government policy was to change, and BFS felt they could be financially better by buying BHD and shutting up shop, could this be a potential way of obtaining the one airport option for Belfast??
So if Government policy was to change, and BFS felt they could be financially better by buying BHD and shutting up shop, could this be a potential way of obtaining the one airport option for Belfast??
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Yes but 1st BHD has to be up for sale and if BFS approached BHD to buy it they wouldnt be selling it cheap but then again last year it only made a profit of £15k so they myt be happy to sell off
Also am I not right in thinking the owners of BFS try to spend as little as possible on their own airport where would they get the money from to buy their competitor out?
Also am I not right in thinking the owners of BFS try to spend as little as possible on their own airport where would they get the money from to buy their competitor out?
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BHD2BFS;
Yes the profit of £15k was the most recent that is reported but figures were alot stronger then, ie passengers passing through. So depending on what was driving such a low profit (perhaps Ryanair deal, but whether it low fees it still was some fees) in the accounts, it would seem that a profit in the near future of £15k would be desirable.
And if BFS were (if) to be attempting to buy BHD it wouldnt have as much to do with the level of profits but more to do with the potential revenue that BFS would achieve for all the additional passengers that they could see through there doors. Probably around 2m last year?
Besides BFS could realise much greater fees if it had no neighbouring airport.
EI-BUD
Yes the profit of £15k was the most recent that is reported but figures were alot stronger then, ie passengers passing through. So depending on what was driving such a low profit (perhaps Ryanair deal, but whether it low fees it still was some fees) in the accounts, it would seem that a profit in the near future of £15k would be desirable.
And if BFS were (if) to be attempting to buy BHD it wouldnt have as much to do with the level of profits but more to do with the potential revenue that BFS would achieve for all the additional passengers that they could see through there doors. Probably around 2m last year?
Besides BFS could realise much greater fees if it had no neighbouring airport.
EI-BUD
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The £15k profit is a smokescreen, the salary increase of the senior director for that year was many times that amount.
....And that is the reason why 2 airports provide competition!
Besides BFS could realise much greater fees if it had no neighbouring airport.
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2 Airports
Here we go again with useless drivel about 2 airports. Does anyone complain about there being 2 burger bars in a particular town? does anybody complain about there being several seaports in Northern Ireland? does anybody complain about 2 car sales outlets in the one area? Of course not - thats free enterprise. If both can make a profit for the owners by attracting customers then so be it.
In aviation comparison terms, Washington DC has around the same population as Belfast, has 2 airports and nobody is crying for one airport to close (and BWI and others are no further away from DC than Derry/Dublin are from Belfast.
In aviation comparison terms, Washington DC has around the same population as Belfast, has 2 airports and nobody is crying for one airport to close (and BWI and others are no further away from DC than Derry/Dublin are from Belfast.
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Quote: "In aviation comparison terms, Washington DC has around the same population as Belfast, has 2 airports and nobody is crying for one airport to close (and BWI and others are no further away from DC than Derry/Dublin are from Belfast."
Good point, but if you include BWI (Baltimore) as a Washington DC airport, then it has three: BWI, DCA and IAD.
Good point, but if you include BWI (Baltimore) as a Washington DC airport, then it has three: BWI, DCA and IAD.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 14th Jun 2012 at 19:27.
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....And that is the reason why 2 airports provide competition!
Clareview;
Here we go again with useless drivel about 2 airports. Does anyone complain
about there being 2 burger bars in a particular town?
about there being 2 burger bars in a particular town?
The burger van is highly unusual comparsion. You can move the burger van to the next town if it doesnt do well/ to where the opportunities are, burger van not important piece of countries infrastructure, and amounts of investment not in any way comparable.
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In aviation comparison terms, Washington DC has around the same population as Belfast, has 2 airports and nobody is crying for one airport to close (and BWI and others are no further away from DC than Derry/Dublin are from Belfast.
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I hope UTV later will be impartial and realistic but somehow I doubt it.
EIBUD - the company accounts are available for public perusal, I am not close to the director but have a few friends that are employed at Harbour.
I find it amazing that 2 airports can create such a depth of feeling when there are so many other life changing issues in our small province. I find it even more amazing that Harbour seem to bury their head in the sand and rarely (in public anyway) seem to counter some of the frankly absurd nonsense that is promoted in our media.
I can remember when Harbour was a portacabin with a few twin otters flying about and Aldergrove didn`t protest too much then! I have a feeling they are hurting badly and wonder just how much they have to do with the anti BHD campaign that appears to be underway?
EIBUD - the company accounts are available for public perusal, I am not close to the director but have a few friends that are employed at Harbour.
I find it amazing that 2 airports can create such a depth of feeling when there are so many other life changing issues in our small province. I find it even more amazing that Harbour seem to bury their head in the sand and rarely (in public anyway) seem to counter some of the frankly absurd nonsense that is promoted in our media.
I can remember when Harbour was a portacabin with a few twin otters flying about and Aldergrove didn`t protest too much then! I have a feeling they are hurting badly and wonder just how much they have to do with the anti BHD campaign that appears to be underway?
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Thanks panpanpanpan,
Yes I hope that it is an impartial piece of reporting/debate.
For the record as much I am of the opposite view to yours (which I respect), I really like the City Airport, nice environment to be in and quite modern too.
I for one am not on a anti BHD campaign, though I am committed to a strong Aviation Policy/ Strategy for Northern Ireland.
re: the days of BHD being a portacabin, I have vague memories, and I would suggest at that time that BFS felt no level of threat to their own operations(Small as it was then...!)... and how things have changed.
EI-BUD
Yes I hope that it is an impartial piece of reporting/debate.
For the record as much I am of the opposite view to yours (which I respect), I really like the City Airport, nice environment to be in and quite modern too.
I for one am not on a anti BHD campaign, though I am committed to a strong Aviation Policy/ Strategy for Northern Ireland.
re: the days of BHD being a portacabin, I have vague memories, and I would suggest at that time that BFS felt no level of threat to their own operations(Small as it was then...!)... and how things have changed.
EI-BUD
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If for any reason BHD did close, what will bfs gain? Pax numbers are down at BHD so they will only gain around 1 million pax (great i know) but with a decrease in overlapping they would never gain bhds 2million share
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Call me cynical but what would the odds be on Aldergrove stoking the debate and injecting an amount of uncertainty at a time of potentially pretty critical decisions being made by relocating airlines..? "you should be careful about going to City, it will be shut soon".
Wonder does Mr A read pprune? The supermarket anology has been aired here before, Tesco telling Sainsbury to close because Tesco wants to build a bigger store and make more money, it really is absurd when you think about it!
I would still love to know the connection between that "doctor" from Belfast City Airport Watch and Aldergrove.
Wonder does Mr A read pprune? The supermarket anology has been aired here before, Tesco telling Sainsbury to close because Tesco wants to build a bigger store and make more money, it really is absurd when you think about it!
I would still love to know the connection between that "doctor" from Belfast City Airport Watch and Aldergrove.
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If EI do move to BHD, you can sure BFS and MOL will be having a chinwag..which may not be so good for Ryanair's future growth at Derry airport.
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I don't think either airport has reached their potential. WW enjoyed good bookings and loads on the few european services they launched and this to me anyway has proven a demand. On the point of BFS I reckon as has been pointed out on other threads plenty more US flights even if just charter/seasonal and more varied european destinations could be added. DUB will profit if APD remains an issue and customers have limited destination options. I don't see how closing one airport down will change any of that, lets put it this way - closing BHD and switching the services to BFS would just result in all the same domestic stuff being flown out, effectively just duplication. You wouldn't add anything, possibly even loose out over all. If one company owned both then yes it would make commercial sense to close the one least likely to attract new business in the future.
Yet ANOTHER airline jumps the BFS ship
BBC News - Aer Lingus to switch from Belfast International to George Belfast Belfast City Airport
BBC News - Aer Lingus to switch from Belfast International to George Belfast Belfast City Airport
Last edited by cuthere; 15th Jun 2012 at 07:02.
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How many airlines have moved to BHD over the years with free deals and discoverd oh we have made the wrong move.British Midland realised after a short time that it was the wrong commercial decision. Interesing times ahead to see what routes EI will operate,canaries gone and FLYBE up in arms.
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So the rumours on this forum aren't lies, I, and others said some time ago this was going to happen. Also as I said before the routes planned are primarily domestic, LGW MAN GLA EDI BHX and of course LHR. I think the impact on Flybe will be the interesting one to watch, on this front. The loss of LHR will be a serious blow to Aldergrove but the international route operated by AL are all served by others. The impact on the Easy domestic network will be minimal as they will watch the blood bath at the City if Flybe decide to fight at all! More on that later.
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Don't know for sure that their intention is to operate domestic routes GMU this morning said they were transferring their existing network of international destinations to the city, perhaps that is the case and the only domestics will be the unserved destination vacated by the late bmi baby.
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BMI @ BHD
Straightahead
I have seen no evidence to suggest BMI regretted their move to BHD after a short period.BMI have been operating there for more than 10years and I am sure there have been several opportunities to move back to BFS ,if they weren-t happy.
For the airlines the critical factor is the rates they are offered by the Airport Operator and if these hadn-t been commercially favorable to BMI they would not have stayed.
From a customer point of view the favorite airport obviously depends on where you live , but as the airports are very close the impact on traffic of
moving airports is not vast and if anything BHD is probably preferred ,particularly for shorthaul domestic like LHR (and particularly for inbound business travellers to N.Ireland ).
If the BMI group had been unhappy at BHD they wouldn-t have moved the BABY routes a year ago and although that has gone its because of underlying probs , at the airline , not the choice of airports in Belfast.
I suspect the major driver for EI in the move , is to develop BHD/LHR in cooperation with BA and presumably some of the sunshine routes they currently operate are not sufficiently lucrative to avoid being sacrificed.
BA owns 14% of Flybe ,so it will be interesting to see how BA manage cooperation with EI alongside BE , particularly if EI also launch BHX,MAN (and LGW where BA already codeshare on BE ).
I have seen no evidence to suggest BMI regretted their move to BHD after a short period.BMI have been operating there for more than 10years and I am sure there have been several opportunities to move back to BFS ,if they weren-t happy.
For the airlines the critical factor is the rates they are offered by the Airport Operator and if these hadn-t been commercially favorable to BMI they would not have stayed.
From a customer point of view the favorite airport obviously depends on where you live , but as the airports are very close the impact on traffic of
moving airports is not vast and if anything BHD is probably preferred ,particularly for shorthaul domestic like LHR (and particularly for inbound business travellers to N.Ireland ).
If the BMI group had been unhappy at BHD they wouldn-t have moved the BABY routes a year ago and although that has gone its because of underlying probs , at the airline , not the choice of airports in Belfast.
I suspect the major driver for EI in the move , is to develop BHD/LHR in cooperation with BA and presumably some of the sunshine routes they currently operate are not sufficiently lucrative to avoid being sacrificed.
BA owns 14% of Flybe ,so it will be interesting to see how BA manage cooperation with EI alongside BE , particularly if EI also launch BHX,MAN (and LGW where BA already codeshare on BE ).