BIRMINGHAM - 5
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The new tower is making good progress, and I understand will be externally complete prior to the Olympics so we have somewhere to hang the 5 neon rings we bought on eBay.
How about the runway extension though? Have the found the cash to make it happen? If so, when will the work start?
Rgds,
LJ
How about the runway extension though? Have the found the cash to make it happen? If so, when will the work start?
Rgds,
LJ
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Lovejoy.
Re runway extension.
Work has already started !! Well sort of.
At present they are clearing a large number of trees infront and to the far side of the new ATC tower down to the field.
This is in preparation of building a large surface car park from the side of the new hotel,swallowing up the field behind the Tristar Hotel.Sadly an easy spotting location will be lost.
This being needed as the new runway extension taxiway cuts straight through the current surface car park behind and to the right of the fuel farm. So the new car park being started replaces this.
Full work on the A45 diversion starts in July this year, and the extension starts June 2013 for a 2014 finish.
Nigel
Re runway extension.
Work has already started !! Well sort of.
At present they are clearing a large number of trees infront and to the far side of the new ATC tower down to the field.
This is in preparation of building a large surface car park from the side of the new hotel,swallowing up the field behind the Tristar Hotel.Sadly an easy spotting location will be lost.
This being needed as the new runway extension taxiway cuts straight through the current surface car park behind and to the right of the fuel farm. So the new car park being started replaces this.
Full work on the A45 diversion starts in July this year, and the extension starts June 2013 for a 2014 finish.
Nigel
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BHX-WAT
Article this morning from Birmingham Post this morning seems to be confirming new route.
Flybe launches new route from Birmingham to Waterford - Latest Business News - Business News - Business - Birmingham Post
CP.
Flybe launches new route from Birmingham to Waterford - Latest Business News - Business News - Business - Birmingham Post
CP.
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Runway
A couple of questions / thoughts re the runway extension
Great news that preparatory work is now underway - there was always a doubt in my mind that this would come to fruition - but what will BHX get for its extra 400 (or is it now 350 mtres)? At just under 3000 metres, will that allow for long range 744 / A380 departures at something approaching MTOW?
Also I remember a few years back Emirates were loudly pushing for this extension and wondered if part of their strategy might be to offer BHX to 'far-east' destinations via a DXB sector or possibly DXB /SIN stops onto Oz.
Great news that preparatory work is now underway - there was always a doubt in my mind that this would come to fruition - but what will BHX get for its extra 400 (or is it now 350 mtres)? At just under 3000 metres, will that allow for long range 744 / A380 departures at something approaching MTOW?
Also I remember a few years back Emirates were loudly pushing for this extension and wondered if part of their strategy might be to offer BHX to 'far-east' destinations via a DXB sector or possibly DXB /SIN stops onto Oz.
Last edited by RealFish; 17th Jan 2012 at 15:32.
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December passenger figures
BHX December passenger figures were up 4.1% and 2011 saw a 0.5% increase in passengers. At least a positive, many other UK airports are posting double digit growth for December but several were badly affected by snow in 2010 so maybe falsely high. Source CAA.
Daza
Daza
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Realfish,
Emirates already do flights from BHX to many World destinations.Im off to the Maldives with them from BHX soon.To DXB then the connecting flt to Male Maldives.
They do the same to Australia.No European airport has any EK flight direct to any other place but Dubai.
In relation to runway length and MTOW. It all depends where you want to fly and conditions.
A 380 at sea level needs about 2,800metres on MTOW. As your airfields get higher or hotter you need more runway length as the air gets thinner.
BHX is about 325ft above sea level so a bit more is required.
Mr Keehoe said last year that the runway extension at 350m (taking it to 2,950m) would enable planes to fly to 95% of the long haul destinations it wants.
So all of India, parts of China, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Sri Lanka Thailand (just) etc should be reachable..However probably not Malaysia, Phillipines, Japan or, Indonesia.
Think you would expect the first service to benefit would be EK, perhaps launching A380s to mark the opening of the extension in 2014..unlike before they would not be weight restricted.
Nigel
Emirates already do flights from BHX to many World destinations.Im off to the Maldives with them from BHX soon.To DXB then the connecting flt to Male Maldives.
They do the same to Australia.No European airport has any EK flight direct to any other place but Dubai.
In relation to runway length and MTOW. It all depends where you want to fly and conditions.
A 380 at sea level needs about 2,800metres on MTOW. As your airfields get higher or hotter you need more runway length as the air gets thinner.
BHX is about 325ft above sea level so a bit more is required.
Mr Keehoe said last year that the runway extension at 350m (taking it to 2,950m) would enable planes to fly to 95% of the long haul destinations it wants.
So all of India, parts of China, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Sri Lanka Thailand (just) etc should be reachable..However probably not Malaysia, Phillipines, Japan or, Indonesia.
Think you would expect the first service to benefit would be EK, perhaps launching A380s to mark the opening of the extension in 2014..unlike before they would not be weight restricted.
Nigel
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Ringwayman
Errr...I'm talking about multi sector/segment flights, not connecting flights. I.E. where there is 1 stop en route (at the DXB hub) but no change of aircraft needed.
e.g. BA9 LHR to SYD (via 1 stop at BKK); the former BHX to ATQ (via VIE); BA2153 LGW to GND (via 1 stop at BGI)
N.O.
Thanks for the info. Enjoy your trip to Male (which would of course appear on the BHX departure board if operated as a multi sector flight)
Errr...I'm talking about multi sector/segment flights, not connecting flights. I.E. where there is 1 stop en route (at the DXB hub) but no change of aircraft needed.
e.g. BA9 LHR to SYD (via 1 stop at BKK); the former BHX to ATQ (via VIE); BA2153 LGW to GND (via 1 stop at BGI)
N.O.
Thanks for the info. Enjoy your trip to Male (which would of course appear on the BHX departure board if operated as a multi sector flight)
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Realfish,
BA do this with aircraft BASED at LHR & LGW. BA would not, for example, operate JFK - LHR - DXB as a through route, I am not aware of any airline doing that by going through their hub and then on somewhere else as part of the same continuation. It makes no sense operationally. I have seen some flights to the USA labelled as such, they seem to take the same flight number through - e.g. iirc LHR - LAx - HNL with UA, but I doubt the same aircraft.
The BA flight you quote to GND makes a very brief stop in BGI, same as LGW-ANU-SKB. That's a 20 minute hop, pretty sure it doesn't even take on fuel in SKB, done because these Caribbean routes wouldn't be viable if operated ptp, and BA don't have 767s @LGW. Totally different to the Kangaroo route, which needs a tech stop anyway, and the aircraft is cleaned, people often assigned different seats etc - so there isn't much difference in having a connecting flight. Granted, if sector 1 is delayed, you will probably miss sector 2, but you can also have fast connections, where you are off on sector 2 before you would otherwise be cleaned and refuelled.
Nigel,
Surely these are just figures from the heaviest of heavies. The Dreamliner must be able to reach further - and when you say China, are we talking PEK & PVG?
Errr...I'm talking about multi sector/segment flights, not connecting flights. I.E. where there is 1 stop en route (at the DXB hub) but no change of aircraft needed.
e.g. BA9 LHR to SYD (via 1 stop at BKK); the former BHX to ATQ (via VIE); BA2153 LGW to GND (via 1 stop at BGI)
e.g. BA9 LHR to SYD (via 1 stop at BKK); the former BHX to ATQ (via VIE); BA2153 LGW to GND (via 1 stop at BGI)
The BA flight you quote to GND makes a very brief stop in BGI, same as LGW-ANU-SKB. That's a 20 minute hop, pretty sure it doesn't even take on fuel in SKB, done because these Caribbean routes wouldn't be viable if operated ptp, and BA don't have 767s @LGW. Totally different to the Kangaroo route, which needs a tech stop anyway, and the aircraft is cleaned, people often assigned different seats etc - so there isn't much difference in having a connecting flight. Granted, if sector 1 is delayed, you will probably miss sector 2, but you can also have fast connections, where you are off on sector 2 before you would otherwise be cleaned and refuelled.
Nigel,
Surely these are just figures from the heaviest of heavies. The Dreamliner must be able to reach further - and when you say China, are we talking PEK & PVG?
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Jabird - thanks for your comments.
I mentioned the BA flights as I have been on both services (the GND flight out and back just before Xmas). At BKK we were on the ground for a little over an hour - a swift 45 mins at BGI) in both cases it was enough time to: deplane passengers for those airports; do some cleaning; undertake a security check on the rest of us and our hand luggage; then take on new passengers and crew for the final destination.
You're right! I suppose the issue is the minimum connection time vs a stop, but if you can be up and away within 90 mins - there could be marketing advantages for both EK and BHX in launching 'direct' Asian services (albeit via DXB).
Does it not make sense operationally? Does an airline version of a 'cross city' service not 'sweat the assets' and keeps aircraft in the air for longer? Just a thought.
That said there are bound to be some regulatory impediments / CAA / governmental rules that wouldn't allow a foreign carrier to originate 'direct' flights from and on to countries outside their domicile?
RF
I mentioned the BA flights as I have been on both services (the GND flight out and back just before Xmas). At BKK we were on the ground for a little over an hour - a swift 45 mins at BGI) in both cases it was enough time to: deplane passengers for those airports; do some cleaning; undertake a security check on the rest of us and our hand luggage; then take on new passengers and crew for the final destination.
You're right! I suppose the issue is the minimum connection time vs a stop, but if you can be up and away within 90 mins - there could be marketing advantages for both EK and BHX in launching 'direct' Asian services (albeit via DXB).
Does it not make sense operationally? Does an airline version of a 'cross city' service not 'sweat the assets' and keeps aircraft in the air for longer? Just a thought.
That said there are bound to be some regulatory impediments / CAA / governmental rules that wouldn't allow a foreign carrier to originate 'direct' flights from and on to countries outside their domicile?
RF
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RF,
I have only ever done super-long-haul once, and I understood all flights operated on similar lines. My route was FRA-DXB-BWN & BWN-BKK-DXB-LHR.
In both cases, we were taken out into the terminal, and iirc, back into different seats. So are you saying you stayed on board at BKK? I didn't think that was the way they did it.
Not really. Even a long distance train will pass through certain stations which are effectively hubs and change crews, load the trolley etc. You are still suggesting a landing at DXB - so all those passengers from BHX would fan out to numerous places across Asia & beyond - why pick one? Utilisation wouldn't be that different, but a particular type would then be committed to two sectors instead of using different ones - for example, there is discussion above of bringing the A380 into BHX, which may suit certain timings - but the onward routes may be operated by anything from an A330 up.
There are numerous flights that operate with so-called 'fifth freedoms', and there are even treaties of 'cabotage' allowing foreign airlines to operate domestic flights within a different country - although I can't think of any flights ex UK that take advantage of that - EU Open Skies is a different step altogether.
There was a good thread a few weeks ago about EY taking a slice of AB, and the political issues that brought up.
Hope that gives you a few pointers, but there should be a fair few airline insiders here who can elaborate further.
I have only ever done super-long-haul once, and I understood all flights operated on similar lines. My route was FRA-DXB-BWN & BWN-BKK-DXB-LHR.
In both cases, we were taken out into the terminal, and iirc, back into different seats. So are you saying you stayed on board at BKK? I didn't think that was the way they did it.
Does an airline version of a 'cross city' service not 'sweat the assets' and keeps aircraft in the air for longer? Just a thought.
There are numerous flights that operate with so-called 'fifth freedoms', and there are even treaties of 'cabotage' allowing foreign airlines to operate domestic flights within a different country - although I can't think of any flights ex UK that take advantage of that - EU Open Skies is a different step altogether.
There was a good thread a few weeks ago about EY taking a slice of AB, and the political issues that brought up.
Hope that gives you a few pointers, but there should be a fair few airline insiders here who can elaborate further.
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Jabird
Yes! on BA9 we were given the option of remaining on the plane if we wished or stretching our legs in the terminal building, airside (some went off to buy duty free stuff), but you had to take your personal possesions with you while on board security checks were carried out.
No such option at Barbados (and Antigua on previous flights - NB: being very disloyal to BHX here!) though. You were required to stay put on the aircraft whilst we waited for new passengers /crew.
Take you point about pax fanning out at DXB - but thought that this might be a marketing opportunity for Brum and less down-time for the equipment.
Yes! on BA9 we were given the option of remaining on the plane if we wished or stretching our legs in the terminal building, airside (some went off to buy duty free stuff), but you had to take your personal possesions with you while on board security checks were carried out.
No such option at Barbados (and Antigua on previous flights - NB: being very disloyal to BHX here!) though. You were required to stay put on the aircraft whilst we waited for new passengers /crew.
Take you point about pax fanning out at DXB - but thought that this might be a marketing opportunity for Brum and less down-time for the equipment.
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thought that this might be a marketing opportunity for Brum and less down-time for the equipment
As for marketing, they are already doing that. Regional airports love to market destinations you can reach through one stop connections - others do it via KLM and Amsterdam. Look at the people mover, that's all about China, not Dubai, and thankfully no longer that screaming baby!
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There are numerous flights that operate with so-called 'fifth freedoms', and there are even treaties of 'cabotage' allowing foreign airlines to operate domestic flights within a different country - although I can't think of any flights ex UK that take advantage of that - EU Open Skies is a different step altogether.
Dublin/Manchester/ many points in Europe with AerLingus
Dublin/Bristol/Brussels Aer Lingus
Dublin/Birmingham/Copenhagen with SAS
Dublin/Manchester/Lisbon with TAP
An example of cabotage: LHR-BFS on EI
Describing Aer Lingus ex Belfast as a Cabotage is technically fitting the definiton but many in NI or on the Island of Ireland would not see Aer Lingus as a foreign airline!!
EI-BUD
It may have been mentioned, I don't know, but it seems that Brussels Airlines are reducing from 5 to 3 flights a day. Happened to notice this looking at making some bookings in May. And they have removed my two favourite timings to boot. To be honest I was often wondering when it would happen as the loads on my favourite timings rarely exceeded 30-40%. Ah well, I guess it'll have to be LH from DUS then.
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An example of cabotage: LHR-BFS on EI
Back in the 80s, wouldn't PER-SYD have been operated as a continuation from LHR having stopped at a couple of other places en route?
Sorry if we're veering slightly away from BHX here. I know we had the AI route operating BOM-BHX-YYZ, but that doesn't include a domestic sector. Again, think that used to operate a long the lines of YVR-YYZ-LHR-BOM?