BIRMINGHAM - 5
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Scary as it seems, Hellenic are looking at a BHX ATH ISB or similar next year from BHX one week......... probably with the backing of some local dodgy travel agent
Join Date: Feb 2004
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And that is exactly what I said BHX should develop those key European services that benefit the West Midlands and Worcester and yes even Oxford business man (as opposed to the corporate that gets booked through LHR whether they like it or not !)
However the blackhole is still just too close by (in travel time)
Agree with your considered views on Visit England (Square mile !)
They are really hopeless at selling anything other than London aren't they.
I also appreciate that the smaller regionals have the benefit and the feel of a more personal service.
One thing i would say in Birmingham's favour and with the runway extension it may well help in developing a sizeable cargo operation that may be more global !
Build a decent ramp get out and target those Chinese Luxembourg and US bulk carriers and forget about SLFs
You can't detract from the excellent distribution and road network and boxes couldn't careless about air miles/avios/Miles and More or similar greed related schemes!
However the blackhole is still just too close by (in travel time)
Agree with your considered views on Visit England (Square mile !)
They are really hopeless at selling anything other than London aren't they.
I also appreciate that the smaller regionals have the benefit and the feel of a more personal service.
One thing i would say in Birmingham's favour and with the runway extension it may well help in developing a sizeable cargo operation that may be more global !
Build a decent ramp get out and target those Chinese Luxembourg and US bulk carriers and forget about SLFs
You can't detract from the excellent distribution and road network and boxes couldn't careless about air miles/avios/Miles and More or similar greed related schemes!
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Flights frequency plea by Birmingham Airport boss
Airlines are to be encouraged to increase the frequency of flights from Birmingham Airport to major destinations like Orlando, Belfast and the Caribbean.
Its chief executive Paul Kehoe has told the Express & Star that 2013 will be a year to show what the airport is capable of as work takes place on a £65 million scheme to extend the runway and an aircraft maintenance hub is being built by airline Monarch’s engineeringcompany, creating 300 jobs.
Mr Kehoe has been trying to convince the Government that its solution to congestion at London’s Heathrow Airport lies in using Birmingham and other regional airports as “hubs” and persuading more operators to base themselves outside of the capital.
But he has said that the key to increasing usage of Birmingham, and to creating more jobs, will lie with the success of the wider West Midlands.
“I’m hoping to see another long-haul route in 2013,” Mr Kehoe said.
“Qatar Airways have said they want to serve Birmingham but haven’t said when. I’m also hopeful of seeing more flights to European cities. Madrid is high on our wish list, as are Prague, Budapest, Toulouse and Lyon.”
The airport is also working to get a flight to Amritsar in India to serve the large Asian population in the West Midlands but a link would depend on the fortunes of Air India.
Mr Kehoe said: “We’ve got people going to see Air India next year but they need financial support from their government, and Air India will also not want to dilute their business at Heathrow.
“We’re promoting the runway extension but it is also very much about selling the economy of the West Midlands.
“Airlines want to see a growing economy so they know they have the business travellers. By the end of 2013 we need to make it clear that Birmingham has a role to play in the national infrastructure and that we are a vital part of it.
“We’re talking to different airlines who already use us.
“We have one flight a week to Orlando in Florida. Other airports have four or five.
“We go to Montego Bay in the Caribbean once a week in the summer and Toronto in Canada once a week. We could handle more flights to Belfast. The challenge in 2013 is to do more with what we have.”
Airlines are to be encouraged to increase the frequency of flights from Birmingham Airport to major destinations like Orlando, Belfast and the Caribbean.
Its chief executive Paul Kehoe has told the Express & Star that 2013 will be a year to show what the airport is capable of as work takes place on a £65 million scheme to extend the runway and an aircraft maintenance hub is being built by airline Monarch’s engineeringcompany, creating 300 jobs.
Mr Kehoe has been trying to convince the Government that its solution to congestion at London’s Heathrow Airport lies in using Birmingham and other regional airports as “hubs” and persuading more operators to base themselves outside of the capital.
But he has said that the key to increasing usage of Birmingham, and to creating more jobs, will lie with the success of the wider West Midlands.
“I’m hoping to see another long-haul route in 2013,” Mr Kehoe said.
“Qatar Airways have said they want to serve Birmingham but haven’t said when. I’m also hopeful of seeing more flights to European cities. Madrid is high on our wish list, as are Prague, Budapest, Toulouse and Lyon.”
The airport is also working to get a flight to Amritsar in India to serve the large Asian population in the West Midlands but a link would depend on the fortunes of Air India.
Mr Kehoe said: “We’ve got people going to see Air India next year but they need financial support from their government, and Air India will also not want to dilute their business at Heathrow.
“We’re promoting the runway extension but it is also very much about selling the economy of the West Midlands.
“Airlines want to see a growing economy so they know they have the business travellers. By the end of 2013 we need to make it clear that Birmingham has a role to play in the national infrastructure and that we are a vital part of it.
“We’re talking to different airlines who already use us.
“We have one flight a week to Orlando in Florida. Other airports have four or five.
“We go to Montego Bay in the Caribbean once a week in the summer and Toronto in Canada once a week. We could handle more flights to Belfast. The challenge in 2013 is to do more with what we have.”
Last edited by Planeaddict; 24th Dec 2012 at 13:30.
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“We’ve got people going to see Air India next year but they need financial support from their government, and Air India will also not want to dilute their business at Heathrow.
Madrid is high on our wish list, as are Prague, Budapest, Toulouse an
Build a decent ramp get out and target those Chinese Luxembourg and US bulk carriers and forget about SLFs
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 24th Dec 2012 at 14:19.
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Air Transport Research Society comparison of landing fees for 767 and A320. Although it's from 2010 it makes interesting reading to compare BHX with other UK airports.
http://www.atrsworld.org/docs/Key%20...27July2011.pdf
http://www.atrsworld.org/docs/Key%20...27July2011.pdf
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Could anyone enlighten me on how landing fees are calculated and why BHX is so expensive? Can't quite understand how they charge so much for a 767 to land yet (if it's true) allow Ryanair to park up their spare fleet for peanuts for months on end.
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I am very well aware of the range of Long haul (to distant hub) and leisure routes available out of Ringway.
MAG has many successes (and failures) over the last 20-30 years, however this is for a differing thread.
Manchester is to a degree also just about sufficiently remote (ground travel time wise) to resist the blackhole .
You know I might reside in Middlesex and spent nine formative years in Oxford, but I am originally from Manchester !
I actually would like to see a more concerted approach to the economic requirements of the regions however as I say coercion may have the adverse effect of driving long haul growth to Mainland European centres.
Again in the case of Birmingham a comprehensive European and yes some leisure routes are necessary way before the prestige of long haul.
Skipness - I think BHX with an adequate runway would make for a healthy competitor to MAG owned EMA where boxes are concerned.
There are other box carriers beyond UPS and DHL (the primary EMA operators).
When the real economy starts to recover a number of the Far East pallet carriers may well want/need to return to the UK and Birmingham could be in the mix.
MAG has many successes (and failures) over the last 20-30 years, however this is for a differing thread.
Manchester is to a degree also just about sufficiently remote (ground travel time wise) to resist the blackhole .
You know I might reside in Middlesex and spent nine formative years in Oxford, but I am originally from Manchester !
I actually would like to see a more concerted approach to the economic requirements of the regions however as I say coercion may have the adverse effect of driving long haul growth to Mainland European centres.
Again in the case of Birmingham a comprehensive European and yes some leisure routes are necessary way before the prestige of long haul.
Skipness - I think BHX with an adequate runway would make for a healthy competitor to MAG owned EMA where boxes are concerned.
There are other box carriers beyond UPS and DHL (the primary EMA operators).
When the real economy starts to recover a number of the Far East pallet carriers may well want/need to return to the UK and Birmingham could be in the mix.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Emirates
Navpi
I believe it has been rumoured that both BHX & EK have stated that the Manchester Middle East expansion has put pressure on the BHX service but I am not sure where the information has come from re the second service in particular. The downgrades from 428 to 360 seat aircraft since May are similar for both services.
The EK38 has good connections to Australia and during the Southern Hemisphere summer the loads are terrific.
I think the reason for the Manchester second 380 is due to the fact EK20 was doing very nicely as a two class 428 seat 77W and when they went to all three class versions there isn't enough capacity in the evening and it is not a case of just shifting pax to EK22 as this EK Dubai bank or wave whatever you want to call it does not offer the same connections.
BHX would have the same problem if a third service was added and if EK decided to go all three class. For six months of the year 360 seats would not be enough although EK have re-introduced an earlier hours Sydney departure ex Dubai connecting with from the Europen afternoon departures, which will help a little.
I can definitely say that all three Manchester - Dubai flights between May and November were definitely not full. They have been steady around 75-80% load factor based on the CAA stats with a peak in September at around 85%.
Pete
I believe it has been rumoured that both BHX & EK have stated that the Manchester Middle East expansion has put pressure on the BHX service but I am not sure where the information has come from re the second service in particular. The downgrades from 428 to 360 seat aircraft since May are similar for both services.
The EK38 has good connections to Australia and during the Southern Hemisphere summer the loads are terrific.
I think the reason for the Manchester second 380 is due to the fact EK20 was doing very nicely as a two class 428 seat 77W and when they went to all three class versions there isn't enough capacity in the evening and it is not a case of just shifting pax to EK22 as this EK Dubai bank or wave whatever you want to call it does not offer the same connections.
BHX would have the same problem if a third service was added and if EK decided to go all three class. For six months of the year 360 seats would not be enough although EK have re-introduced an earlier hours Sydney departure ex Dubai connecting with from the Europen afternoon departures, which will help a little.
I can definitely say that all three Manchester - Dubai flights between May and November were definitely not full. They have been steady around 75-80% load factor based on the CAA stats with a peak in September at around 85%.
Pete
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NAVPI.
They are not doubling the sizeof MAN Airport they are building a massive industrial unit and office complexes on its land.
As for EK being full... think the load factors are somewhat shy of 100% as you claim !
Please stick to rumours !!
Nigel
They are not doubling the sizeof MAN Airport they are building a massive industrial unit and office complexes on its land.
As for EK being full... think the load factors are somewhat shy of 100% as you claim !
Please stick to rumours !!
Nigel
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EK A388
Just for info, the EK A388 did have a 773 load on it (just in case the Airbus went tech and had to be replaced). The aircraft took off up hill with a tailwind and only used about 2/3rds of the TORA, so full and into wind on the current runway isn't a problem, shifting the current cargo loads would be though.
I think the speculation about EK is really funny, none of you have a clue about the load short of the actual load factor. BHX is constantly in the top 10 yielding routes in the EK system (normally in the top 4). Any decision to add a third flight (could already give you the timings and flight numbers but I won't) will not be based purely on the passenger load, although the earlier flight gives better connections to the sub continent and would reduce pressure on the 40, but on the huge amount of cargo coming from the current 380 stations to add to the home grown bookings, even SkyCargo can't keep up with demand on their LHR flights.
EK aren't stupid, the third flight is alive and well. It will start when TC thinks the time is right.
I think the speculation about EK is really funny, none of you have a clue about the load short of the actual load factor. BHX is constantly in the top 10 yielding routes in the EK system (normally in the top 4). Any decision to add a third flight (could already give you the timings and flight numbers but I won't) will not be based purely on the passenger load, although the earlier flight gives better connections to the sub continent and would reduce pressure on the 40, but on the huge amount of cargo coming from the current 380 stations to add to the home grown bookings, even SkyCargo can't keep up with demand on their LHR flights.
EK aren't stupid, the third flight is alive and well. It will start when TC thinks the time is right.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: South of MAN, North of BHX, and well clear of Stoke ;-)
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think the speculation about EK is really funny, none of you have a clue about the load short of the actual load factor. BHX is constantly in the top 10 yielding routes in the EK system (normally in the top 4).
Having been involved in yield management and long scrutinised the performance of competing carriers on various routes, I find it very difficult to believe that BHX has ever been in the top 4 of EK's top yielding routes. Just don't believe it. It sounds like the old spotter's claim that BA's MAN/JFK was the most profitable on the network.
Unless of course you can provide some concrete evidence......?
EK is a success at Brum, but let's not over egg the Christmas pudding
Last edited by StoneyBridge Radar; 25th Dec 2012 at 10:26.
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Groundhogbhx.
Um yes BHX EK is hitting about 80% load factor and its a success for us.
However it is silly to suggest BHX is in the top 4 re yield.
If that is so, why do we still have only 2 class machines.
The moneis made up front, and only BHX and NCL have a mostly cattle class sched now in the UK.Everyone else has lie flat beds and first class suites where the real monies made
Im really hoping BHX can increase its yield somewhat to enable us at least get one 3 class flt a day next year.
Nigel
Um yes BHX EK is hitting about 80% load factor and its a success for us.
However it is silly to suggest BHX is in the top 4 re yield.
If that is so, why do we still have only 2 class machines.
The moneis made up front, and only BHX and NCL have a mostly cattle class sched now in the UK.Everyone else has lie flat beds and first class suites where the real monies made
Im really hoping BHX can increase its yield somewhat to enable us at least get one 3 class flt a day next year.
Nigel
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Passenger loads
Although interesting to enthusiasts (me included) the passenger loads are just that, crude numbers. Even economy class tickets are priced at several levels. Some economy class fares especially those booked at the last minute and fully flexible tickets can be priced on a par with business class fares. Only Emirates know how each base performes in terms of yield. Crude numbers are just that.....crude.
Can I add this is no criticism of the guys on here who spend many hours interpreting the CAA figures (OP springs to mind). Emirates have a successful operation at Birmingham along with many other legacy airlines and like others I am amazed that Birmingham has what it does with the charges in place
:
Oh and Merry Christmas and New Year wishes to all.
Daza
Can I add this is no criticism of the guys on here who spend many hours interpreting the CAA figures (OP springs to mind). Emirates have a successful operation at Birmingham along with many other legacy airlines and like others I am amazed that Birmingham has what it does with the charges in place
:Oh and Merry Christmas and New Year wishes to all.
Daza
Last edited by Daza; 25th Dec 2012 at 11:13.
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Planeaddict
That is incorrect.
2012 to date 8,389,726, so we will see just over 8.9m in 2012.
Best year was 9,628,254 in 2008.
A few years till we get back to these levels, unless EZY set up a base :-)
That is incorrect.
2012 to date 8,389,726, so we will see just over 8.9m in 2012.
Best year was 9,628,254 in 2008.
A few years till we get back to these levels, unless EZY set up a base :-)
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Good point DAZA the pax loads can be 80% in summer and same 80% in Winter but the yields even if ALL ECONOMY can be radically different !
Nigel
I was simply quoting "Man speak" from the "Tender Docs", this suggested it would now be the largest building site in the UK since the building of the Olympic village.
.....I accept its not the actual terminals but nontheless it is pretty impressive. The World Logistics hub is pure cargo however and is enormous !
Nigel
I was simply quoting "Man speak" from the "Tender Docs", this suggested it would now be the largest building site in the UK since the building of the Olympic village.
.....I accept its not the actual terminals but nontheless it is pretty impressive. The World Logistics hub is pure cargo however and is enormous !
Last edited by Navpi; 25th Dec 2012 at 16:53.