BIRMINGHAM - 5
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Well said GF! All this recent talk of will QR ever start, will AA/AI/US ever comeback and heaven help us the coming of Air Algerie is getting a bit tedious. The problem is that many people believe the runway extension will solve all BHX's problems. It won't. But while I do think the extension will make the airport a more lucrative option for some carriers, the basic fact remains that their are gaping holes in BHX's short haul market which I think should be addressed before chasing after fantasy routes such as SFO or SIN just to grab a bit of media attention. The answer to turning BHX's fortunes around in the short term lies with Jet2 IMO.
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Short Haul/Jet2
But what would Jet2 bring that Monarch/Thomson/Thomas Cook/FR/BE dont already offer?
Monarch have gone from 4 BHX based A/C in 2011 to 6 Monarch and 2 wet leased in 2012 and 9 Monarch aircraft planned for 2013 plus increased frequencies and two knew routes (Bordeaux and Split). Just dont see what Jet2 could really bring other than maybe a new route or two but surely if they needed serving Tom/TC/ZB/ would be serving them.
Monarch have gone from 4 BHX based A/C in 2011 to 6 Monarch and 2 wet leased in 2012 and 9 Monarch aircraft planned for 2013 plus increased frequencies and two knew routes (Bordeaux and Split). Just dont see what Jet2 could really bring other than maybe a new route or two but surely if they needed serving Tom/TC/ZB/ would be serving them.
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Jet2
Despite MON picking up a lot of the slack from bmibaby, I still feel that their is room for another based carrier at BHX. Ryanair aren't really interested and the cynic in me believes they only keep their BHX base running so they have somewhere to park their spare aircraft in the winter months. EZY have had plenty of opportunity to start a base at BHX in the past but don't seem interested either.
Jet 2 have gone from strength to strength in their existing bases and BHX has often been rumored as a potential new station. The likes of Budapest, Prague, Tolouse, Lisbon, Pisa, a few underserved bucket and spade routes and perhaps something like Madrid or even Tel Aviv would be good to see. Like I say, it's just my two cents but I think these kind of goals are more realistic than chasing somewhere like ORD.
Jet 2 have gone from strength to strength in their existing bases and BHX has often been rumored as a potential new station. The likes of Budapest, Prague, Tolouse, Lisbon, Pisa, a few underserved bucket and spade routes and perhaps something like Madrid or even Tel Aviv would be good to see. Like I say, it's just my two cents but I think these kind of goals are more realistic than chasing somewhere like ORD.
Last edited by chinapattern; 28th Dec 2012 at 18:10.
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Quote: "AI BHX to Amritsar.. Air India said made large amounts of money.. only stopped to save landing rights at LHR..."
Don't understand how the two are connected. There is a fairly liberal (if not open skies) agreement between the UK and India. It was, for example, liberal enough to allow BA, BD, VS, AI and 9W on LHR-BOM (BD dropped out and IT came on later) with BA and 9W twice daily.
Quote: "Plans to rename BHX Ozzy Osbourne International Airport anyone?"
Hmmm, Heathrow-Dick Turpin Airport ?
Heathrow-The Black Hole Airport? (see below)
No, let's not waste money on frivolity, leave it as the much more sensible Birmingham-Elmdon.
Why not name our railway stations and football grounds after celebrities first? Once we've made ourselves look silly nationally then maybe we can make ourselves a laughing stock globally.
Quote: "Why the families UK home for many many years has been leafy Buckinghamshire and close to the end of the metropolitan tube line "Chalfont St Giles"
A stones throw from the "blackhole"
Los Angeles was also home for a while, IIRC.
Quote: "As for India well lets say combined political interference global recession (In relevant tech industries) and shear weakness of all airline candidates will prevent any UK regional service for some years.
Kingfisher - Effectively bust
Air India - Corrupt political tool and also broke
Jet - More concerned with *A membership and deciding whether to remain in Brussels or move to Munich."
Yes, forget about AI to ATQ coming back, forget about IT and/or 9W starting up, never going to happen. Why? because it's too late.
The low yield VFR traffic to northern India has been sown up by EK in particular (offering multiple destinations in India via DXB) and, to a lesser extent, TK. Doubtless QR and EY will be on this bandwagon before AI gets it act together.
As for the premium business and high yield, that heads further south these days to Bombay, as always, and the growing cities of Bangalore and Hyderabad and Madras.
Over the years there has been a change, a move to the south and nonstop UK-India flights now reflect this: they go to BLR, HYD and MAA rather than ATQ and CCU. BOM is the main centre for business finance, and commerce, DEL is the capital and the centre of the tourist trade, so they have always had the most flights and this won't change.
As far as BHX and the sub-continent is concerned, would expect Pakistan and Bangladesh to be more important direct destinations. As far as India is concerned, LHR appears to have its routes sown up.
Don't understand how the two are connected. There is a fairly liberal (if not open skies) agreement between the UK and India. It was, for example, liberal enough to allow BA, BD, VS, AI and 9W on LHR-BOM (BD dropped out and IT came on later) with BA and 9W twice daily.
Quote: "Plans to rename BHX Ozzy Osbourne International Airport anyone?"
Hmmm, Heathrow-Dick Turpin Airport ?
Heathrow-The Black Hole Airport? (see below)
No, let's not waste money on frivolity, leave it as the much more sensible Birmingham-Elmdon.
Why not name our railway stations and football grounds after celebrities first? Once we've made ourselves look silly nationally then maybe we can make ourselves a laughing stock globally.
Quote: "Why the families UK home for many many years has been leafy Buckinghamshire and close to the end of the metropolitan tube line "Chalfont St Giles"
A stones throw from the "blackhole"
Los Angeles was also home for a while, IIRC.
Quote: "As for India well lets say combined political interference global recession (In relevant tech industries) and shear weakness of all airline candidates will prevent any UK regional service for some years.
Kingfisher - Effectively bust
Air India - Corrupt political tool and also broke
Jet - More concerned with *A membership and deciding whether to remain in Brussels or move to Munich."
Yes, forget about AI to ATQ coming back, forget about IT and/or 9W starting up, never going to happen. Why? because it's too late.
The low yield VFR traffic to northern India has been sown up by EK in particular (offering multiple destinations in India via DXB) and, to a lesser extent, TK. Doubtless QR and EY will be on this bandwagon before AI gets it act together.
As for the premium business and high yield, that heads further south these days to Bombay, as always, and the growing cities of Bangalore and Hyderabad and Madras.
Over the years there has been a change, a move to the south and nonstop UK-India flights now reflect this: they go to BLR, HYD and MAA rather than ATQ and CCU. BOM is the main centre for business finance, and commerce, DEL is the capital and the centre of the tourist trade, so they have always had the most flights and this won't change.
As far as BHX and the sub-continent is concerned, would expect Pakistan and Bangladesh to be more important direct destinations. As far as India is concerned, LHR appears to have its routes sown up.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 28th Dec 2012 at 18:35.
BHX can't really expect any new investment, especially of the "10 based airframes" type at present, and even in the foreseeable future.
"It's the economy, stupid", and that is the top and bottom of the lack of progress. The West Midlands certainly has its success stories, but the economy just is not as vibrant as London's, and even that is pretty pedestrian at present.
BHX wasn't helped by their failure to secure a based loco during the loco boom (about 1995-2007). The strategy of sticking with established full service carriers has had some success looking at the range of current operators, but the lack of a based loco has been, in retrospect, disadvantageous. Don't forget that Baby came late to BHX, and was not the best-managed company. MyTravelLite was a flawed concept that failed to survive consolidation in the IT industry, so the only saviour has been Monarch.
I can't see much more than trend levels of growth over the next few years, unless someone with more money than sense latches on to the extended runway with a long-haul operation.
"It's the economy, stupid", and that is the top and bottom of the lack of progress. The West Midlands certainly has its success stories, but the economy just is not as vibrant as London's, and even that is pretty pedestrian at present.
BHX wasn't helped by their failure to secure a based loco during the loco boom (about 1995-2007). The strategy of sticking with established full service carriers has had some success looking at the range of current operators, but the lack of a based loco has been, in retrospect, disadvantageous. Don't forget that Baby came late to BHX, and was not the best-managed company. MyTravelLite was a flawed concept that failed to survive consolidation in the IT industry, so the only saviour has been Monarch.
I can't see much more than trend levels of growth over the next few years, unless someone with more money than sense latches on to the extended runway with a long-haul operation.
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But what would Jet2 bring that Monarch/Thomson/Thomas Cook/FR/BE dont already offer?
Looking at the current Jet2 map, La Rochelle, Bergerac, Geneva, Marrakech, Sardinia, Pisa, Budapest (forgot in my previous post that we are about to lose that aswell), Prague, Corfu, Zante, Kos, Rhodes, Tel Aviv are all served by Jet2 but not by airlines from BHX. I'm not saying all of these would work but there is enough selection of city break and beach destinations for a two a/c base?
Personally I would prefer an EZY base but talking about an EZY BHX base is almost as dull as the when will QR start question.
Why not name our railway stations and football grounds after celebrities first?
I think BHX would greatly benefit from Birmingham International station being renamed to Birmingham Airport
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Nope I dont work for BHX
Looking at that route list that Jet2 do a fair few are covered by existing carriers at BHX
Geneva - ZB, BE
Marrakech -Tom
Budapest - BE
Prague - BE
Corfu -ZB(charter), Tom, TC
Zante - ZB(charter), Tom
Kos - Tom
Rhodes - BE, Tom
That was found from a brief look on there websites. What would ideally be better for BHX would be continued growth of the likes of ZB to Antayla, Friedrichshafen (winter) and maybe some ZB Rhodes, Corfu, Zante, Heraklion and Kos rather than charter, maybe some more mid to long destions wouldn't go a miss such as Goa, Mombassa, Tobago etc aswell.
Continued growth is occuring, Monarchs winter 2013/4 programme has been released with an extra SSH, ACE, FAO, TFS, LCA a week + GIB(3 per week - New Route) I can really only speak for ZB and not other carriers.
Looking at that route list that Jet2 do a fair few are covered by existing carriers at BHX
Geneva - ZB, BE
Marrakech -Tom
Budapest - BE
Prague - BE
Corfu -ZB(charter), Tom, TC
Zante - ZB(charter), Tom
Kos - Tom
Rhodes - BE, Tom
That was found from a brief look on there websites. What would ideally be better for BHX would be continued growth of the likes of ZB to Antayla, Friedrichshafen (winter) and maybe some ZB Rhodes, Corfu, Zante, Heraklion and Kos rather than charter, maybe some more mid to long destions wouldn't go a miss such as Goa, Mombassa, Tobago etc aswell.
Continued growth is occuring, Monarchs winter 2013/4 programme has been released with an extra SSH, ACE, FAO, TFS, LCA a week + GIB(3 per week - New Route) I can really only speak for ZB and not other carriers.
Last edited by Alex321; 28th Dec 2012 at 20:56.
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777s
Planeaddict
Regarding the possibilty of seeing three 777s at BHX from three different international airlines I think your find that London Gatwick does have three international airlines 777s tails in together at the same time and all in the North Terminal as in EK, KE, VN along with BA of course although KE is seasonal.
Regarding the possibilty of seeing three 777s at BHX from three different international airlines I think your find that London Gatwick does have three international airlines 777s tails in together at the same time and all in the North Terminal as in EK, KE, VN along with BA of course although KE is seasonal.
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Airlines like US Airways could have worked well if they sorted out these landing charges and, if they maybe decided to make it year round and had been more confident in it .
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When you think about it all airports are international so why state the obvious?
Last edited by call100; 28th Dec 2012 at 23:16.
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I wouldn't like a Jet2 base in Birmingham for a couple of reasons:
- It would harm what they have successfully built up at East Midlands in recent years in which they are very pleased with the performance of and in fact since the new base opened in 2010, it has had another aircraft added to it every summer (now 4 for 2013).
- Monarch have recently expanded Birmingham and Jet2 is simply not needed as the two airlines are very comparible and quite simply quite similar in what they offer. Jet2 wouldn't bring anything new to Birmingham and would be surprised if they wanted them as they would only upset Monarch as well as their own base at East Midlands Airport.
The airlines never stop surprising us though so who knows? Monarch have started from Jet2 airports (East Midlands and Leeds/Bradford) so maybe Jet2 will start going into Monarch airports but I really wouldn't like to see Jet2 in Birmingham because as I say, it would bring nothing new and would just cause harm elsewhere. I'd prefer a London base, preferably Stansted after it's sold off as only Ryanair serves a lot of the key routes like Alicante and Barcelona next year, but what is the liklihood of them going to London airports???
- It would harm what they have successfully built up at East Midlands in recent years in which they are very pleased with the performance of and in fact since the new base opened in 2010, it has had another aircraft added to it every summer (now 4 for 2013).
- Monarch have recently expanded Birmingham and Jet2 is simply not needed as the two airlines are very comparible and quite simply quite similar in what they offer. Jet2 wouldn't bring anything new to Birmingham and would be surprised if they wanted them as they would only upset Monarch as well as their own base at East Midlands Airport.
The airlines never stop surprising us though so who knows? Monarch have started from Jet2 airports (East Midlands and Leeds/Bradford) so maybe Jet2 will start going into Monarch airports but I really wouldn't like to see Jet2 in Birmingham because as I say, it would bring nothing new and would just cause harm elsewhere. I'd prefer a London base, preferably Stansted after it's sold off as only Ryanair serves a lot of the key routes like Alicante and Barcelona next year, but what is the liklihood of them going to London airports???
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Hmm, BHX has a track record of attaining airlines which either serve none, or one other, UK destination. Armavia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Air India are examples.
Even though Shaheen Air was indeed a rumour, I can see them starting a UK destination in the future with their new A330s. Whether BHX should/would be that destination, I'm not entirely sure, it all depends on how well the PIA flights are performing. Anyone have any statistics for those flights?
Even though Shaheen Air was indeed a rumour, I can see them starting a UK destination in the future with their new A330s. Whether BHX should/would be that destination, I'm not entirely sure, it all depends on how well the PIA flights are performing. Anyone have any statistics for those flights?
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Birmingham Airport thread seems to have dominated this forum over the Christmas period. Quite interesting to read at times, but some suggestions avoid economic reality. I believe that Birmingham, like several other regional airports, can have an effective network of short and medium haul routes plus a few viable long haul ones. (All of these will be mainly O&D) Plus of course feeding continental hubs. The idea of Birmingham as another UK hub is just a dream. The UK hub will remain at Heathrow as economic reality dictates. Gatwick may also develop more long haul routes with more connecting services but will never rival Heathrow.
There is nothing unique about this situation as most other European carriers also use regional services to feed their hubs. The Middle Eastern carriers do exactly the same.
V.
There is nothing unique about this situation as most other European carriers also use regional services to feed their hubs. The Middle Eastern carriers do exactly the same.
V.
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'.....There is nothing unique about this situation as most other European carriers also use regional services to feed their hubs. The Middle Eastern carriers do exactly the same.'
One exception being Iberia / Madrid. BHX pax miss out on onward connections to Central and South America; increasingly important business and leisure destinations.
But of course IAG, it seems, would sooner feed regional trafic through their BA, LHR hub. Odd!
One exception being Iberia / Madrid. BHX pax miss out on onward connections to Central and South America; increasingly important business and leisure destinations.
But of course IAG, it seems, would sooner feed regional trafic through their BA, LHR hub. Odd!
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Call 100
Actually they are, in their recent submission to the transports select committee's enquiry they state the international station should be renamed, to save you wading through it here is the relevant pasage
Birmingham dropped 'International' from it's title some time ago when they did the re-branding. It's just plain old Birmingham airport now......The Airport management is not exactly pushing for the Station to be renamed to reflect the change
a)Rename Birmingham International station "Birmingham Airport" – the station is only two minutes from the Airport on a free air-rail link, but this is not indicated on www.nationalrail.co.uk, leading to confusion by passengers of the location of the Airport and ease of access by rail. Renaming the station would provide more accurate information to the consumer.
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MMZ Euro Atlantic Airways.
Any one shed any light on the above airline and there proposed flights in to BHX in January. They are using a 767-300 and to and from Imam Khomieni Iran
.
Looking at the planned movements. They are operating.
Outbound on a Monday + Wednesday at 2100pm.
Inbound on a Tuesday + Thursday at 1200pm.
They have airport slots booked for the whole of January.
The aircraft positions in and out to Lisbon before and after flights.
.Looking at the planned movements. They are operating.
Outbound on a Monday + Wednesday at 2100pm.
Inbound on a Tuesday + Thursday at 1200pm.
They have airport slots booked for the whole of January.
The aircraft positions in and out to Lisbon before and after flights.