BIRMINGHAM - 5
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: South of MAN, North of BHX, and well clear of Stoke ;-)
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AA have had quite a few problems with B757 to ORD ex MAN when winds
on the ocean have been strong and have had to take a tech stop
on the ocean have been strong and have had to take a tech stop
I'd been led to believe they'd "got away with it" pretty well up to now...
Planeaddict:
I would imagine that Delta went to Edinburgh instead of BHX (if indeed there was a choice to be made) because Edinburgh is the capital city and seat of the Scottish government, and hence more important politically and businesswise than Birmingham and the West Midlands, and also, because when the Americans talk about visiting the UK for leisure they think of "London England" and "Edinburgh Scotland" - not Birmingham, even though it is close to Stratford. Americans measure everything from London and 100 miles is "just down the road" in their minds!
If any new carrier wants to open a new route they would get special rates from the airport to do so, at least during the route development period. Anyway, in comparison with the serious operational costs - particularly fuel, landing fees would be a fairly insignificant problem. The business case is all important.
Maybe that's the reason Delta went to Edinburgh in 2005 instea
landing fees are preventing them
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Solihull
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Delta/Thomson/easy/Ryanair
FR- that would be a nice Christmas present. Loads on BFS and now Geneva are impressive lets hope they are making money on them.
Delta - Rumours circulated at the time that Delta did indeed quote the runway issue and that to make money they would need the maximum cargo yield and in summer a fully loaded 763 would be marginal depending on the temperatures. I suspect that the real reason was the worry of filling 36 business seats on a daily.
I wasn't aware it was a BHX or EDI and if it was then there was only going to be one winner as ATNotts suggest but as Delta found out it is not always as easy as that. Could it also have been possible that EDI at the time had the RDF or whatever it was called and BHX had just the usual sliding scale landing fee incentives?
Delta Atlanta has always been my favourite as a new westbound route but fully realise that filling 36 business seats a day is one big ask from BHX. United on the other hand have 16 business which seems far too low going by the seat maps.
Thomson
2013/4 winter is out with little change but a lot will be dependant on aircraft type. Also from the Thomson thread it seems a new handling contract has been signed but everyone seems tight-lipped in respect of the winner.
Ryanair - Summer 2013 updated, four based again by the look of it but with more away based flying as Barcelona, Reus and Girona retained although the latter at two per week.
Krakow stays two a week BHX based and Bergamo three a week but split between BHX & BGY based aircraft.
Alicante is up from seven to nine weekly.
Pete
Delta - Rumours circulated at the time that Delta did indeed quote the runway issue and that to make money they would need the maximum cargo yield and in summer a fully loaded 763 would be marginal depending on the temperatures. I suspect that the real reason was the worry of filling 36 business seats on a daily.
I wasn't aware it was a BHX or EDI and if it was then there was only going to be one winner as ATNotts suggest but as Delta found out it is not always as easy as that. Could it also have been possible that EDI at the time had the RDF or whatever it was called and BHX had just the usual sliding scale landing fee incentives?
Delta Atlanta has always been my favourite as a new westbound route but fully realise that filling 36 business seats a day is one big ask from BHX. United on the other hand have 16 business which seems far too low going by the seat maps.
Thomson
2013/4 winter is out with little change but a lot will be dependant on aircraft type. Also from the Thomson thread it seems a new handling contract has been signed but everyone seems tight-lipped in respect of the winner.
Ryanair - Summer 2013 updated, four based again by the look of it but with more away based flying as Barcelona, Reus and Girona retained although the latter at two per week.
Krakow stays two a week BHX based and Bergamo three a week but split between BHX & BGY based aircraft.
Alicante is up from seven to nine weekly.
Pete
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Bergamo
OP, merely as an observation I notice that Bergamo has increased to three per week for the summer?
I travelled this route recently and was very, very surprised to see how many Italian people were on the flight. And before anyone says the plane was flying to Italy, can I add that in percentage terms the numbers, each way, were far higher than I would see on flights to say, Faro, which is a route I travel very frequently and also being mindful that there are a lot of Portuguese working in the UK.
Is there a high Italian population working in the Midlands or are they using this route as most of us do, as a tourism destination?
I travelled this route recently and was very, very surprised to see how many Italian people were on the flight. And before anyone says the plane was flying to Italy, can I add that in percentage terms the numbers, each way, were far higher than I would see on flights to say, Faro, which is a route I travel very frequently and also being mindful that there are a lot of Portuguese working in the UK.
Is there a high Italian population working in the Midlands or are they using this route as most of us do, as a tourism destination?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: South of MAN, North of BHX, and well clear of Stoke ;-)
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there was a week when strong winds were due a B767 was substituted and that was before the summer when it was a B767 anyway
Sounds more like a prudent aircraft substitution for one week's abnormal weather. As far as I know, I'm not aware of any splash and dash diverts whilst the 757 has plied the route, but happy to be corrected if someone has concrete data to back it up one way or the other.
Rgds
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Good to see some positive news on BGY loads I was a bit sceptical it would survive the usual FR fly it for a season then drop it policy.....I flew the route when WW operated it, its an ideal jump off point for Italian Lakes and Alps and destinations further afield via Milan by train
BRS-BUD has been released for summer is there then a glimmer of hope that BHX-BUD might come back, perhaps they have resolved that alleged fees issue in BUD?
OP - You are absolutely right DL did very seriously look into operating from BHX (I know someone who was heavily involved in the discussions between BHX and DL) and indeed it was runway length and its impact on cargo/pax loads that was the problem. This was quite a bit before they then chose to operate from EDI. I should imagine at EDI the RDF persuaded them to start ops and when these discounts dried up the route was pulled.
BRS-BUD has been released for summer is there then a glimmer of hope that BHX-BUD might come back, perhaps they have resolved that alleged fees issue in BUD?
OP - You are absolutely right DL did very seriously look into operating from BHX (I know someone who was heavily involved in the discussions between BHX and DL) and indeed it was runway length and its impact on cargo/pax loads that was the problem. This was quite a bit before they then chose to operate from EDI. I should imagine at EDI the RDF persuaded them to start ops and when these discounts dried up the route was pulled.
Join Date: Dec 2011
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StoneyBridge
That was only one example as many flights had to make a tech stop en route
and I get the impression that should a B767 be available it will be back on the ORD flight which I might say was only lost when the A300 were withdrawn
snd left American very short of aircraft
Chaps
That was only one example as many flights had to make a tech stop en route
and I get the impression that should a B767 be available it will be back on the ORD flight which I might say was only lost when the A300 were withdrawn
snd left American very short of aircraft
Chaps
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Plane addict,
All new airlines are offered massive discounts when starting a route out of BHX which increases gradually on a sliding scale year on year.
Many other large UK airports do the same. So forget about landing fees being the issue, they can come in for virtually nothing for the first year or so.
Nigel
All new airlines are offered massive discounts when starting a route out of BHX which increases gradually on a sliding scale year on year.
Many other large UK airports do the same. So forget about landing fees being the issue, they can come in for virtually nothing for the first year or so.
Nigel
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Skipness one echo.
Glasgow is about 300 miles nearer the USA than us, and has over 200 metres more runway than BHX, so most east coast and some mid US are reachable from their current runway.
Nigel
Glasgow is about 300 miles nearer the USA than us, and has over 200 metres more runway than BHX, so most east coast and some mid US are reachable from their current runway.
Nigel
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Delta/SN
GF - cheers for that I thought the Delta rejection was before the EDI
Monty Gordo - Interesting comments you make about the BGY, perhaps it is easy to fall into the trap and believe that nobody comes to BHX, just leave! It is good news if it is servicing both ends of the route.
I flew back on the third inbound LH Berlin and although a much more business orientated route, I too was impressed by the number of Germans on the flight and it wasn't just Brits going to view Berlin for a few days (although that is a good a reason as any). Just can't believe the CR9 will operate this route at weekends.
The Bergamo should be three a week now - Tue/Thu/Sat all BHX based, it might be less frequent over the holiday period but it is showing three a week second week in January.
Disappointed they have yet to replace the Budapest with increased frequencies on other routes at least from Feb half-term.
Brussels Airlines
Next summer now showing flybe operating the night-stop and first inbound.
Pete
Monty Gordo - Interesting comments you make about the BGY, perhaps it is easy to fall into the trap and believe that nobody comes to BHX, just leave! It is good news if it is servicing both ends of the route.
I flew back on the third inbound LH Berlin and although a much more business orientated route, I too was impressed by the number of Germans on the flight and it wasn't just Brits going to view Berlin for a few days (although that is a good a reason as any). Just can't believe the CR9 will operate this route at weekends.
The Bergamo should be three a week now - Tue/Thu/Sat all BHX based, it might be less frequent over the holiday period but it is showing three a week second week in January.
Disappointed they have yet to replace the Budapest with increased frequencies on other routes at least from Feb half-term.
Brussels Airlines
Next summer now showing flybe operating the night-stop and first inbound.
Pete
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Surely a new pier is on the cards? After all, when the runway extension is finished in just over a year's time, they'd need it.
When PIA used to operate 747's into Birmingham back in the early 2000s, I recall reading somewhere that the flights used to always be full, and that in the old arrivals area, there used to be forms of chaos. Is there any sufficient demand for flights to the likes of Peshawar, Karachi or Lahore?
I think BHX has the facilities to be used as an international/transit hub for certain airlines. BHX has not yet seen a service to Bangladesh, I get the thought that there would be a similar amount of population/demand as there is for flights to India/Pakistan. Maybe Biman Bangladesh could work out, and seeing as they don't currently have a service to the USA (they previously did, routing it through Manchester then Brussels), they could have it to either JFK or ORD, on an A310 (which PIA certainly managed). This is back in the day where at least 4-5 carriers were doing transatlantic flights: All sizes | 110-1073_IMG | Flickr - Photo Sharing!.
When PIA used to operate 747's into Birmingham back in the early 2000s, I recall reading somewhere that the flights used to always be full, and that in the old arrivals area, there used to be forms of chaos. Is there any sufficient demand for flights to the likes of Peshawar, Karachi or Lahore?
I think BHX has the facilities to be used as an international/transit hub for certain airlines. BHX has not yet seen a service to Bangladesh, I get the thought that there would be a similar amount of population/demand as there is for flights to India/Pakistan. Maybe Biman Bangladesh could work out, and seeing as they don't currently have a service to the USA (they previously did, routing it through Manchester then Brussels), they could have it to either JFK or ORD, on an A310 (which PIA certainly managed). This is back in the day where at least 4-5 carriers were doing transatlantic flights: All sizes | 110-1073_IMG | Flickr - Photo Sharing!.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Biman Bangladesh don't have the planes to expand. They severely misforecast their Hajj requirements and really curtailed their ops. MAN is suspended but the Bangladesh government wants them to reinstate all suspended routes.
They've currently got no permit to fly to the States and when it does come through, it is generally believed that the "normal" MAN route will be altered from Dhaka-Heathrow-MAN-Dhaka to a Dhaka-MAN-JFK-MAN-Dhaka
They've currently got no permit to fly to the States and when it does come through, it is generally believed that the "normal" MAN route will be altered from Dhaka-Heathrow-MAN-Dhaka to a Dhaka-MAN-JFK-MAN-Dhaka
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BHX runway
I have been interested in this dascussion re runway lengths at BHX and Glasgow and its impact on fully laden planes, particularly in the hotter summer months.
But there is one question that has not been asked, namely the height above sea level of the respective airports. Does this have any bearing on the issue????
But there is one question that has not been asked, namely the height above sea level of the respective airports. Does this have any bearing on the issue????